Rosey Ruzicka said:
It's not that the general public doesn't understand. It's all about remembering Spygate and not giving Belichick or the Patriots the benefit of the doubt.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
It's not that the general public doesn't understand. It's all about remembering Spygate and not giving Belichick or the Patriots the benefit of the doubt.
I do take some solace in the fact that Goodell is probably lying uncomfortably on top of a hotel room TV or perched on a nightstand somewhere in Glendale right now wondering how he even managed to fuck up something as simple as getting into bed.
It doesn't matter what they submit them at. They can turn in completely deflated footballs if they want. It's the job of the officials to approve the submitted balls for play, and to check them to ensure they're at the right pressure and fill them to the requisite pressure if they're not. This is why the home team is required to provide the officiating crew with a gauge and pump.veritas said:
OnWisc said:
No posts for four hours. Ballghazi is slipping.
Imagine how this story would have gone if Green Bay made the super bowl? Would it have been as big of a story?
johnmd20 said:
Was talking to customers in WI about this yesterday and it got me thinking about how much less this story would have been discussed this week given Rodgers is the poster boy for pushing the boundaries when it comes to inflating footballs. God dam you Brian Bostick, just do your job and we spend 70-80% of this week discussing the actual game instead of 5% discussing the game.
Does anyone know if the balls were removed from play at end of 2nd qtr and brought inside for halftime inspection?
This is the only thing I can think of as to why the NFL is still "entrenched" in their position.
The science shows that the balls can lose about 1.4-1.8 PSI due to temp drop.
As DDB's experiment showed, the balls pressure loss to temperature returns pretty quickly. It took about 15 minutes to return to normal with a slight loss of PSI.
If the NFL knows that the balls had about 20-25 minutes to acclimate and were still under by the rumored 2 PSI, that would raise some red flags.
This is the only thing I can think of as to why the NFL is still "entrenched" in their position.
The science shows that the balls can lose about 1.4-1.8 PSI due to temp drop.
As DDB's experiment showed, the balls pressure loss to temperature returns pretty quickly. It took about 15 minutes to return to normal with a slight loss of PSI.
If the NFL knows that the balls had about 20-25 minutes to acclimate and were still under by the rumored 2 PSI, that would raise some red flags.
Brady is a cheat ,Rodgers a superb gamesman is my guess is how it would have been spun.johnmd20 said:
AardsmaToZupcic said:
Possibly. But I wonder. That would be a pretty easy rebuttal. Wait, the Patriots are cheaters but Green Bay is just trying to play within the rules?
It just goes to show you how ridiculous this is.
Given how long halftime is, and the fact that the refs also took the time to reinflate each ball, it is practically impossible that they waited 20-25 for the balls to acclimate.Bob420 said:
Bob420 said:
Doesn't this fully explain the inanity of this issue though, and why there will likely be a rule change in the off-season. The ball is always going to change with pressure, and only a small temperature swing (~25 F) is enough to swing the pressure by more than 1 psi. That means that no matter what, it is pretty much impossible for a ball to be in spec at the inspection before the game as well as remain in spec during the game. Maybe someone in the league will realize this and be a voice of reason. As it is now, the whole thing seems to be harping on the magnitude of how low the pressure was, rather than the fact that it was under-pressured at all.
That's why I was asking if they removed them from play and brought them inside. The game was going on for another 15 minutes or so of total time before halftime when the balls were removed from play, no?Rosey Ruzicka said:
There will be rule changes. Not sure why they don't just keep the balls outside in stadium conditions prior to the check.
Bob420 said:
What balls were they using in the game if all of them were removed from play before the half ended?
And don't say "Colts balls" (as D'Quell Jackson reportedly said) because I find it hard to believe that if he could recognize that it was a Colts ball from a distance, Brady wouldn't have noticed that it wasn't a Pats provided ball. And all statements from the Pats side (Brady and Belichick) are that they were unaware during the game that a) balls were questioned and b) balls were measured and re-inflated at halftime. I would think that if they were forced to use a Colts ball, they'd want to know why.
If any balls were removed during play, they were likely set aside by the ball boy while others within the Patriots' set were used right up until the end of the half. Then all the balls were collected together to be brought inside, (re-)measured and (re-)inflated.
Ah. So breaking a rule seven years ago is more pursuasive than science. You also left out the intense hatred/jealousy aspect. I know you are a Steelers guy, can you imagine the scandal is Belichick had tried to trip a player during a game? People would be calling for a year suspension, loss of draft picks, etc. What it boils down to is that, right now, this is about letting the emotional get in the way of the rational. Science is an absolute, regardless of what the Patriots may have done 7 years ago. It almost certainly explains at least a significant portion of the underinflation. Until we are dealing with actual facts, and not contradictory leaks, it's not really possible to know much beyond that.Sea Dog said:
Harry Hooper said:
Veritas, I think what Harry is asking is exactly what the Patriots did, relying on the officials to "top off" an already "excited" ball. There has been less focus on the officials' role in this whole episode than any other entity. Whereas a normal crew would assign responsibility for gauge-testing the footballs to the low man on the totem pole (as identified by the ever-intrepid Peter King), these are All-Star crews that don't normally work together. Perfectly plausible that they went with the squeeze test and not the gauge test, which now makes the officials, the league, AND the Patriots all look bad.
The weather and the officials' negligence are likely to clear the Pats of post-approval/release tampering, but my prediction is that they'll get nailed by the NFL for fiddling with the footballs and will be tagged with the appearance of submitting them in an under-inflated state, even though there likely are no logs or readings anywhere for the pre-game inspection process.
OnWisc said:
I'm here as well. What a maroon.
Sea Dog said:
Spygate was the biggest overblown scandal. The fact that Goddell took away a first round pick was laughable.
Ed Hillel said:
They didn't break any rules seven years ago (however uncomfortable that makes people feel). They were punished for defying a memo about taping that left the interpretation ambiguous enough for teams to respond differently.
I agree with the rest of your post (and I'm not picking on you personally for the "rule-breaking" part).
OK. I thought it was said that the balls were removed from play towards end of 2nd qtr, backups were used and then the originals were tested and put back in play after being inflated.Red(s)HawksFan said:
I guess I was surprised by DDBs findings of how fast the ball would recover. About 70% in 7 minutes. A wet ball would impact thus rate but still surprising.
I agree, I just didn't want to get into it. Even from a subjective standpoint of one who thinks Spygate got all the attention it deserved, it doesn't mean science can be ignored. That's intellectually lazy at best.Dick Pole Upside said:
The American media (Mostly National) the last 15 years has been light on facts and heavy on rumor's and speculation I started noticing it after they declared Gore had won the presidency, then after 9/11 it seemed to me to turn into more sensationalized media reporting.johnmd20 said:
Granted Twitter has made it worse and TMZ certainly doesn't help as it just show's the American people love gossip and rumors.
veritas said:
I understand and agree with your points on the Patriots ball prep and its impact on pressure, as I think most here do as well. The bolded above is what I disagree with. The comments of NFL players, coaches, "the science guy"s, media, and even the supposed "leaks" have indicated most of them do not understand this, furthermore many of them claim to KNOW that "temperature does not effect the PSI". If we can get them all to understand/admit that simple temperature drop from room temperature to halftime outdoor temperature explains a large portion of the PSI drop (~1.5 PSI), then the dialogue would change significantly.
They would have to:
- Accuse the patriots of deflating the footballs by .5 PSI instead of 2 PSI, making the whole thing even more ridiculous, given how imperceptible and meaningless a .5 PSI difference really is
- Address the fact that "the colts balls did not deflate" is likely not a true statement, and should trigger follow up questions on why that statement was leaked and how accurate are these leaks really. Only explanation that doesnt make the whole "scandal" look more stupid is if they were inflated at outdoor temperature, which is not likely to be true.
- Address the fact that a rule with a 12.5 - 13.5 PSI range measured indoors and expect the rest of the game for it to stay in that range is stupid and impossible
- Address the fact that every game ever played in temperatures below 50ish degrees was played with "illegal" footballs
After this is when I think people would be ready for the point that the remaining "unexplained" .5 PSI difference is explainable by the Patriots ball prep heating internal temperatures, temporarily raising PSI slightly.
Stitch01 said:
You know, it's not often you see two posts back to back where the 2nd so completely proves the hypothesis posed in the first.Helmet Head said:
ShaneTrot said:
Reading sportswriting and being shocked that they are dumb is like going to an airport and being shocked that there are airplanes.
Most sportswriting is about content production; if you show you can get stuff turned in on time, no one really cares how crappy it is. It's like not firing a shitty worker because he's never absent.
I was trying to figure out if it was trolling of the highest order, or if he really felt that way. But I think he really feels that way. Kept saying that the AFCC was rigged and that Indy fans (which he claims he isn't one) deserve to be upset. Claims that Gooddell passed the buck and didn't have the guts to suspend Belichick for the SB.
Also said that if the Pats were innocent, and there was nothing to see, we'd know by now. Somebody needs to punch him in the face.
Also said that if the Pats were innocent, and there was nothing to see, we'd know by now. Somebody needs to punch him in the face.
The alarm got pulled in the Patriots hotel in the middle of the night.
This is the SECOND time this has happened since they arrived.
If there isn't a full investigation and the threat of Coach Pete losing his job, I'll be starting a petition to remove the Seahawks from the SuperBowl.
(The worst part is that the alarm thing probably does affect the game more than the stupid fucking PSI of the football.)
This is the SECOND time this has happened since they arrived.
If there isn't a full investigation and the threat of Coach Pete losing his job, I'll be starting a petition to remove the Seahawks from the SuperBowl.
(The worst part is that the alarm thing probably does affect the game more than the stupid fucking PSI of the football.)
Infield Infidel said:
Doyel is a special case, tho. I used to read him when he wrote for CBS. Every column was sensational and designed to make people angry. He loves the conflict.
I'll be more generous:Stitch01 said:
The general public consists of a lot of busy or distracted people who don't care to spend a lot of time on this issue. So they form their opinion based on sound bites.
You can get the real story if you want, but you have to spend hours reading about it. Most people don't have the time or wish to spend it. Therefore ESPN rules the narrative.
crystalline said:
I'll be even more generous:
>90% of the general public doesn't care about the videotaping. A large number of them aren't even aware of it.
A small number of highly charged sports fans probably don't care but pretend to, so that they can troll Patriots fans, or whatever.
Really, we're in Orly Taitz territory here. Don't give in to it.
I know he's your boss, but I'm guessing he couldnt give factual specifics.....?BigSoxFan said:
Only a matter of time until the Christian Peters thing gets de-factualized so that it's another major negative on the organization.
Well, seeing as he oversaw the tanking of a season to get Andrew Luck and walked onto the only college football team ever to receive the death penalty, he certainly would be able to recognize cheating when he saw it.
Tito's Pullover said:
inflate balls to accepted 13.5psi max
put out at 70d air temp, but in full AZ sun
measure psi....14? 14.5? 15?
They'd oscillate back and forth depending on exposure. Similar to the evaporative cooling... the evap. cooling (in the Colts game) could take a ball to max 4d below ambient air, but once it was not exposed to wind/air movement, it would revert back to very close to ambient.
Once the sun-heated balls were in the shade they'd cool back off to ambient (or to some extent exposure to moving air would also bring it back down some).
I still think it's helpful to have one of the all-time leaders at the position in Brees admitting that he likes the ball soft and messes with the football, the same way that Rodgers is on record admitting to over-inflation. If the NFL is even remotely rational, that has to figure into the eventual response and punishment (if any) following the Wells report.DukeSox said:
I'd love for there to be a table of footballs, all inflated under laboratory conditions to the exact same psi with precision instruments, then brought outside and placed in various conditions - one in full sun, one in full shade, one being misted, one with a fan blowing across it, one being misted with a fan blowing across it, etc., all with the same precision pressure gauges inserted, with the results being tracked and displayed real-time in the corner of the screen during the broadcast. Not just for the SB, but for every game broadcast next year, and years to come, as a constant unavoidable reminder to everyone of the nature of this witch hunt.
funny thing my way is, all the Giants and Jets fans around have seemed to stop caring about this.
Yeah the Post and the Daily News have their cover stories, but I wonder if it's a diminishing return now.
I think even some real Patriots-haters just want to watch a football game!
Yeah the Post and the Daily News have their cover stories, but I wonder if it's a diminishing return now.
I think even some real Patriots-haters just want to watch a football game!