Derrick White, extends 4yrs/$125.9M

TrapperAB

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The new TV deal is possibly several multiples of the old one (I have seen multiple sources saying 3x the current annual figure). While the salary cap can only increase max 10% annually, I would think substantially more TV revenue might soften the blow to the Celtics' cash flow if that is an issue.
I’ve been wondering about that 10% “smoothing of the cap” (to avoid another Durant situation). Any capologists here? If the league and players are supposed to split revenue 50/50, and the amount coming in triples, but the cap only goes up 10%, where does the additional money go?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I’ve been wondering about that 10% “smoothing of the cap” (to avoid another Durant situation). Any capologists here? If the league and players are supposed to split revenue 50/50, and the amount coming in triples, but the cap only goes up 10%, where does the additional money go?
The revenues go to the players in future years. I presume there is some sort of adjuster so that the money in future years is reasonably equivalent to the money the players would have gotten if not for the smoothing.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-cba-101-everything-to-know-about-new-agreement-from-salary-cap-to-free-agency-and-beyond/
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Agree, as there was no way Stevens and Wyc were sitting in a room in 2021 with a plan that said "trade for Jrue Holliday in 2023". Too many things happen to be able to plan that far ahead with any degree of precision.
IIRC, POBOBS used to go into Danny's office and ask, "Is there any way we can get Jrue?" so he's been thinking about if for a while.
 

TrapperAB

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The revenues go to the players in future years. I presume there is some sort of adjuster so that the money in future years is reasonably equivalent to the money the players would have gotten if not for the smoothing.

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/nba-cba-101-everything-to-know-about-new-agreement-from-salary-cap-to-free-agency-and-beyond/
Ah! Thank you for this. Makes sense — just interesting that in the short term, some players might not see the same levels of salary as they would have otherwise. All in the name of competitive balance, which I get (and support), but still, there are some guys in the league who will end their careers with lower earnings than they would have otherwise. The players in aggregate will get the money eventually, but specific guys who would have in one system won’t in this one. It’s all generational wealth, of course, so not a lot of tears here. Just interesting.
 

InstaFace

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I’ve been wondering about that 10% “smoothing of the cap” (to avoid another Durant situation). Any capologists here? If the league and players are supposed to split revenue 50/50, and the amount coming in triples, but the cap only goes up 10%, where does the additional money go?
There is an escrow system, where the extra money is basically banked by the owners and earns interest until it can get paid out to the players. This function worked in reverse during the pandemic, when the owners agreed to pay more than their contracted share of BRI in order to lessen the hit the players would take to their pay, and in exchange the extra got accrued and paid back out to owners the last few years to make them whole. Also, every year something like 10% of players' paychecks is automatically escrowed until the end of the year, so that if revenue comes in way less than expected they lose a portion of that (and if it comes in higher, they see it in the form of larger cap raises down the road). So I think if league revenue from broadcasting (40%-ish) triples, it will mean 10% annual cap raises for a LONG time, with a ton of money being escrowed as a sort of trust fund for the players' share of that.
 

Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache

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The new TV deal is possibly several multiples of the old one (I have seen multiple sources saying 3x the current annual figure)
I’ve been wondering about that 10% “smoothing of the cap” (to avoid another Durant situation)
I've wondered a few times in the last year+ how much the Golden State Warrior's experience from 2015 - 2018 influenced a bunch of moves the Celtics have made recently, and how they're thinking about the next few seasons

Back in the day, there was all kinds of speculation, in the early/mid 20teens about whether Golden State was going to be able to afford to keep Steph and Klay and Draymond together, especially as the franchise started having to pay second-max contracts. Then, they not only resigned all three but then-- as we all vividly remember-- when the new TV deal hit they had room to max-sign KD as well. Once lesson from that era seemed to be: when league revenues go up significantly, the normal financial pressures that pull apart teams with a bunch of All Star players ease up significantly.

So, if you were ever going to have a roster full of highly-paid All Star vets who were well worth the money, the time to assemble that roster is just before a new TV deal.

In an alternative universe where the new TV deal lands at a different time, Golden State wins the 2014 championship, loses to LeBron the next year, then can't afford to keep their big three together, and can't quite go all the way the next few seasons. They end up, like so many other great teams, winning one ring and then slipping to "just" being a top 5-7 team afterward.

Instead, of course, the new TV deal lands at the perfect time and with their core + Durant they win three championships in four years

This is based on nothing but speculation, but are Brad and Wyc and company looking at the next few years in a similar fashion? The fact that the additional revenue will be 'smoothed' lessens the one-time impact of the new deal, but still and all 10% increases when you start from a really high base is real money. Their willingness to sign Jaylen to a max extension; to trade for and extend Jrue; the confidence they project in resigning White... are they trying to line up our valuable/expensive talent so the new TV deal allows them to keep this group together for longer, and have more bites at the apple?

Hard tellin', not knowin'

But it's something I've wondered about
 

benhogan

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IIRC, POBOBS used to go into Danny's office and ask, "Is there any way we can get Jrue?" so he's been thinking about if for a while.
Yea, Brad couldn't stop smiling during the Jrue presser.

Brad (Zarren) mentioned that there were a limited number of players that could match Dame's contract. They were very prepared to act by using Brogdon's salary (MB was unhappy with the earlier trade rumors) to upgrade.

Here again, the "controversial" Marcus Smart trade helped with those extra Firsts. Moving Marcus to Memphis set off numerous positive roster/rotation moves like Derrick White taking over his closing minutes + adding KP.
 

InstaFace

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Ah! Thank you for this. Makes sense — just interesting that in the short term, some players might not see the same levels of salary as they would have otherwise. All in the name of competitive balance, which I get (and support), but still, there are some guys in the league who will end their careers with lower earnings than they would have otherwise. The players in aggregate will get the money eventually, but specific guys who would have in one system won’t in this one. It’s all generational wealth, of course, so not a lot of tears here. Just interesting.
Yeah you're correct in this. The players will see some of it in the form of cap increases, some of which might end up larger than the year on year growth of revenue would otherwise have made them.

They could also vote to take some of the excess from the next few years and increase the benefits to retired players, for pension, healthcare, and expanding the pool of players to whom it applies. If they felt bad about this, of course.

"A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in."
 

lovegtm

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So, if you were ever going to have a roster full of highly-paid All Star vets who were well worth the money, the time to assemble that roster is just before a new TV deal.
I wanted to pick this point out, since it's correct, and also has an additional implication: if you do that, you also have tons of movable contracts. GSW doesn't win that 4th title if they don't have Durant turned into DLo turned into (barf) Wiggins. Keeping that slot the whole time was critical.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This is based on nothing but speculation, but are Brad and Wyc and company looking at the next few years in a similar fashion?
I'm sure POBOBS and Zarren have everything gamed out. As many commentators have pointed out, the salary cap is going to increase so dramatically over the next few years, what we think is "superstar money" is going to be "good player money" and contracts like PP are going to be bargins - I mean he's going to be getting something 4-5% of the salary cap.

The amazing thing about the Cs - they have the best record in the NBA and they don't have any contacts that aren't positive value at the moment. That's a pretty enviable place to be.

Ah! Thank you for this. Makes sense — just interesting that in the short term, some players might not see the same levels of salary as they would have otherwise. All in the name of competitive balance, which I get (and support), but still, there are some guys in the league who will end their careers with lower earnings than they would have otherwise. The players in aggregate will get the money eventually, but specific guys who would have in one system won’t in this one. It’s all generational wealth, of course, so not a lot of tears here. Just interesting.
Yes, the point you raise is exactly why the players didn't agree to smoothing in 2016 - "Why would we voluntarily agree to reduce our immediate earning power"? Well as it turned out, most of the players didn't have their earnings increase - just a few who were lucky enough to be FAs that off-season got silly contracts - and as EFDM points out, GSW was able to create a real dynasty and I guess people don't think that suddenly increasing the cap is a good thing for anyone.
 

Jimbodandy

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I've wondered a few times in the last year+ how much the Golden State Warrior's experience from 2015 - 2018 influenced a bunch of moves the Celtics have made recently, and how they're thinking about the next few seasons

Back in the day, there was all kinds of speculation, in the early/mid 20teens about whether Golden State was going to be able to afford to keep Steph and Klay and Draymond together, especially as the franchise started having to pay second-max contracts. Then, they not only resigned all three but then-- as we all vividly remember-- when the new TV deal hit they had room to max-sign KD as well. Once lesson from that era seemed to be: when league revenues go up significantly, the normal financial pressures that pull apart teams with a bunch of All Star players ease up significantly.

So, if you were ever going to have a roster full of highly-paid All Star vets who were well worth the money, the time to assemble that roster is just before a new TV deal.

In an alternative universe where the new TV deal lands at a different time, Golden State wins the 2014 championship, loses to LeBron the next year, then can't afford to keep their big three together, and can't quite go all the way the next few seasons. They end up, like so many other great teams, winning one ring and then slipping to "just" being a top 5-7 team afterward.

Instead, of course, the new TV deal lands at the perfect time and with their core + Durant they win three championships in four years

This is based on nothing but speculation, but are Brad and Wyc and company looking at the next few years in a similar fashion? The fact that the additional revenue will be 'smoothed' lessens the one-time impact of the new deal, but still and all 10% increases when you start from a really high base is real money. Their willingness to sign Jaylen to a max extension; to trade for and extend Jrue; the confidence they project in resigning White... are they trying to line up our valuable/expensive talent so the new TV deal allows them to keep this group together for longer, and have more bites at the apple?

Hard tellin', not knowin'

But it's something I've wondered about
lgtm and wbcd's responses were mostly in line with my thinking on this as well. Yes, you're correct that growth solves a lot of problems. But I also have a lot of respect for Danny and then Brad's thinking on optionality. It's a bad thing to have a lot of rich contracts on guys who absolutely don't deserve them. You pay big in picks and/or have to take back someone else's junk to shed them. But it's not necessarily bad to have a bunch of middle-to-high tier contracts on guys who are desirable players. And having three different guys in that 30ish AAV and a couple of guys in the supermax tier (Brown, soon Tatum), gives you a lot of options. Throw in some bargain contracts and judicious drafting of role players, hold onto the majority of your picks, and now you have not painted yourself into a corner. If, God forbid, we end up in a situation where ownership suddenly has cash problems, nobody is an anchor around the owners' necks. And while nobody wants to go there, it sure as hell must be a comfort to the guys with the checkbooks that if shit hits fans, there are multiple escape valves. That probably empowers Brad in the short term (next few years) to keep that window open, since nobody is staring down armageddon. Not a cap expert, but seems right to me. And I think that it bodes well for a quiet and happy Derrick White extension.
 

lovegtm

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lgtm and wbcd's responses were mostly in line with my thinking on this as well. Yes, you're correct that growth solves a lot of problems. But I also have a lot of respect for Danny and then Brad's thinking on optionality. It's a bad thing to have a lot of rich contracts on guys who absolutely don't deserve them. You pay big in picks and/or have to take back someone else's junk to shed them. But it's not necessarily bad to have a bunch of middle-to-high tier contracts on guys who are desirable players. And having three different guys in that 30ish AAV and a couple of guys in the supermax tier (Brown, soon Tatum), gives you a lot of options. Throw in some bargain contracts and judicious drafting of role players, hold onto the majority of your picks, and now you have not painted yourself into a corner. If, God forbid, we end up in a situation where ownership suddenly has cash problems, nobody is an anchor around the owners' necks. And while nobody wants to go there, it sure as hell must be a comfort to the guys with the checkbooks that if shit hits fans, there are multiple escape valves. That probably empowers Brad in the short term (next few years) to keep that window open, since nobody is staring down armageddon. Not a cap expert, but seems right to me. And I think that it bodes well for a quiet and happy Derrick White extension.
The Brad GM philosophy, so far:
1. If your roster is deep enough, you don't have playing time for late 1sts, given their opportunity cost
2. Late 1sts can always be turned into top-100 type rotation players, sometimes with top-30 upside
3. Prefer quality vets who can fit on both ends over projects
4. Always always always always sign guys to extensions/long-term when you think they'll be a positive value
- you can figure out cap stuff later (because other teams want them, often in exchange for those 1sts you know how to use!)
- if the contract is positive, no need to haggle too much
- when you haggle, haggle over things that make that contract more attractive (Getting Jaylen to take a 5th year with no option was big)
 

PedroKsBambino

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I've wondered a few times in the last year+ how much the Golden State Warrior's experience from 2015 - 2018 influenced a bunch of moves the Celtics have made recently, and how they're thinking about the next few seasons

Back in the day, there was all kinds of speculation, in the early/mid 20teens about whether Golden State was going to be able to afford to keep Steph and Klay and Draymond together, especially as the franchise started having to pay second-max contracts. Then, they not only resigned all three but then-- as we all vividly remember-- when the new TV deal hit they had room to max-sign KD as well. Once lesson from that era seemed to be: when league revenues go up significantly, the normal financial pressures that pull apart teams with a bunch of All Star players ease up significantly.

So, if you were ever going to have a roster full of highly-paid All Star vets who were well worth the money, the time to assemble that roster is just before a new TV deal.

In an alternative universe where the new TV deal lands at a different time, Golden State wins the 2014 championship, loses to LeBron the next year, then can't afford to keep their big three together, and can't quite go all the way the next few seasons. They end up, like so many other great teams, winning one ring and then slipping to "just" being a top 5-7 team afterward.

Instead, of course, the new TV deal lands at the perfect time and with their core + Durant they win three championships in four years

This is based on nothing but speculation, but are Brad and Wyc and company looking at the next few years in a similar fashion? The fact that the additional revenue will be 'smoothed' lessens the one-time impact of the new deal, but still and all 10% increases when you start from a really high base is real money. Their willingness to sign Jaylen to a max extension; to trade for and extend Jrue; the confidence they project in resigning White... are they trying to line up our valuable/expensive talent so the new TV deal allows them to keep this group together for longer, and have more bites at the apple?

Hard tellin', not knowin'

But it's something I've wondered about
Contrast this with the most high-profile "We won't be able to afford all of them" deal - the OKC Harden trade, which simply didn't need to happen.

I certainly could be proven wrong but I am with the thread consensus- Cs mapped this out financially before last summer's deals and plan to sign White and keep the band together at least through end of next year, if not longer.
 

benhogan

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The Brad GM philosophy, so far:
1. If your roster is deep enough, you don't have playing time for late 1sts, given their opportunity cost
2. Late 1sts can always be turned into top-100 type rotation players, sometimes with top-30 upside
3. Prefer quality vets who can fit on both ends over projects
4. Always always always always sign guys to extensions/long-term when you think they'll be a positive value
- you can figure out cap stuff later (because other teams want them, often in exchange for those 1sts you know how to use!)
- if the contract is positive, no need to haggle too much
- when you haggle, haggle over things that make that contract more attractive (Getting Jaylen to take a 5th year with no option was big)
5. Immediately cut bait on slightly questionable fits or a YEAR early...Kemba, Tristan Thompson, Romeo, Denis Schroeder. He sold high on both Smart & TL, who look perpetually broken due to their style of play.

I'm not sure if Brogdon's grumbling last summer fits into the "questionable fit" bucket. He also never seems to be healthy. His injury before the Miami series is rarely mentioned but was a HUGE hit.
 

lovegtm

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5. Immediately cut bait on slightly questionable fits or a YEAR early...Kemba, Tristan Thompson, Romeo, Denis Schroeder. He sold high on both Smart & TL, who look perpetually broken due to their style of play.

I'm not sure if Brogdon's grumbling last summer fits into the "questionable fit" bucket. He also never seems to be healthy. His injury before the Miami series is rarely mentioned but was a HUGE hit.
Good point. Selling high early is critical.

They definitely were selling high with Brogdon to LAC, and they would have gotten away with it too!
 

Seabass

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The potential for a White extension has been discussed all over the board, but this is the best place to put this report from Zach Lowe:

" White will be eligible this summer for a four-year, $123 million extension. One way or another, sources close to the situation expect him to continue as a core part of the Celtics."

It's a solid read about the trade and White's evolution since he got to Boston.
 

JCizzle

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The potential for a White extension has been discussed all over the board, but this is the best place to put this report from Zach Lowe:

" White will be eligible this summer for a four-year, $123 million extension. One way or another, sources close to the situation expect him to continue as a core part of the Celtics."

It's a solid read about the trade and White's evolution since he got to Boston.
This was a good read - thanks for sharing it.
 

benhogan

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The potential for a White extension has been discussed all over the board, but this is the best place to put this report from Zach Lowe:

" White will be eligible this summer for a four-year, $123 million extension. One way or another, sources close to the situation expect him to continue as a core part of the Celtics."

It's a solid read about the trade and White's evolution since he got to Boston.
thanks for post, some highlights

WHITE IS THE one player in this constellation who broke out as a star. He earned All-Star consideration this season while averaging 15 points on 47% shooting -- including 39.6% on 3s -- along with 5 assists, 4 rebounds and 2.2 combined steals and blocks. He made his second straight All-Defensive team.

There are rival coaches and executives who argue White was Boston's second-best player this season. He was their best player in the first round against the Miami Heat.

He is more than a role player -- more than even an apex role player. White has run 25.3 pick-and-rolls per 100 possessions, No. 1 on the team -- just ahead of Tatum. He is a good passer, and can provide the kind of pick-and-roll scoring that is typical of more heralded players; White hit 74% at the rim and almost 45% on floaters. He can manufacture points when Boston's offense stalls.

Boston's offense doesn't stall as much with White on the floor; he might be the Celtics' best improvisational playmaker and screener -- on and off the ball. Boston's most efficient offense flows out of two-man actions pairing White with Tatum or Brown. When White screens for Boston's superstars, he can zip out in any direction -- drifting for 3s, or slipping to the paint like a rim-running big. Hitting White there on 4-on-3s -- the defense trapping Tatum up high -- almost always ends in a good shot.

potential counter is putting weaker defenders elsewhere to coax Boston's offense away from the White-Tatum two-man game. The Heat tried this for parts of the first round by stashing Tyler Herro on Brown -- with bigger, more switchable defenders on White. The Golden State Warriors in one regular-season game tried to shift more of Boston's offense toward Brown -- and away from White and Tatum -- by ignoring Brown away from the ball.
 

lovegtm

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I would have bet everything that shot was dropping too. Shows what I know.
Side note, but they ran great offense the last couple minutes of the game. Tons of good looks with layups and open 3s. Very unlucky to not win that one by more.
 

benhogan

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Anyone still concerned about the pick swap?
Anybody who was concerned has to be in denial. BUT I don't recall many complaints about the D White deal at the time.

I wouldn't expect the Celtics to use a First Rounder for a while, not with Brad's track record on using Firsts on trades for vet talent, or to subtract contracts.

Plus he has effectively used the G-league to develop end-of-the-bench talent (Luke, Sam, Queta).
 

InstaFace

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I think some people may be confusing sarcastic / joking references to the pick swap, which are numerous here, with actual sincerely-held concerns about the pick swap, which don't exist here (or, really, anywhere in Celtics fandom).

The trouble can come from not knowing who is joking and who isn't, but in this case I think it's safe to assume that everyone is joking and nobody is sincere.
 

ragnarok725

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There was another report a week or so ago from Stein that White was interested in an extension.

As covered here, I think it's entirely up to him. The Cs should be offering the max he's eligible for and just cross their fingers that he takes it.
 

ifmanis5

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There was another report a week or so ago from Stein that White was interested in an extension.

As covered here, I think it's entirely up to him. The Cs should be offering the max he's eligible for and just cross their fingers that he takes it.
I would agree. He strikes me as a guy who would prefer to come back into a good situation he likes rather than take a better money deal elsewhere. But who knows.
 

Euclis20

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View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1801765506413904208

Woj with two nuggets on Derrick White: -Could join Team USA for the Olympics if Kawhi Leonard can't go -It's a huge priority for Boston and White to agree to an extension this summer
Happy for White re: Team USA, but it seems odd that he'd make it over Brunson or Brown. Especially Brown, given Brunson's injury and with Kawhi out, the team would have more of a need for size (and Brown seems to have morphed into a slightly smaller, more athletic version of Kawhi).
 

PedroKsBambino

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Just checking: Who is still worried about the 2028 pick swap?

What a spectacular player.
 

JCizzle

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Broken mouth Derrick looked like he just went 12 rounds. So glad to have this guy on the C's.
That looked so unbelievably painful on replay. I can't believe he didn't need more than the 30 second blood timeout.
 

InstaFace

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That looked so unbelievably painful on replay. I can't believe he didn't need more than the 30 second blood timeout.
The dude is Gumby. He gets stretched out all over the place and bounces right back. I was blown away that he played all 82 last year.

I would agree. He strikes me as a guy who would prefer to come back into a good situation he likes rather than take a better money deal elsewhere. But who knows.
We've put ourselves in the best possible negotiating position - or rather, White himself has helped to put the Celtics there. Take every penny we can offer you to stay here and feel what you're feeling now, and keep the party going, or maybe get a bit more next summer with some other team that won't be set up as well. White doesn't seem like the kind to want to strike out and build his own crew, the wanderlust type.
 

jablo1312

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derrick white is the best player in nba history.

happy for everyone for infinity reasons but this is the kind of guy that makes nba champions nba champions. pound for pound talent wise, he is simply as winning a player as exists in the nba today.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I was really worried about that shot. He was lucky to get away with just having his teeth wrecked and not a severe concussion. The Celtics need to extend him ASAP so that he can invest some of that money in some high quality dental work.
 

Justthetippett

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derrick white is the best player in nba history.

happy for everyone for infinity reasons but this is the kind of guy that makes nba champions nba champions. pound for pound talent wise, he is simply as winning a player as exists in the nba today.
I really hope he takes the extension this summer because I think this guy has another level and his durability is so key in the regular season. Ridiculous 4th/5th option on any team. (He'd be 2nd/3rd on many.)

Would also love to see him on Team USA. Him and Jrue in the backcourt would swallow many teams defensively.
 

Reverend

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White had a really neat moment in his after game press conference when they asked him about Mazzulla. He indicated he’d been a bit down on being traded; it’s always hard, and he’d been kinda so-so when he arrived in Boston. He then said that he was really surprised when, after his first half season here, CJM went to him and said he was going to start him. Says Joe told him he thought it would be good for his confidence and make him a better player. And White suddenly looks almost lightheaded and was like, “He turned my career around!” He looks like he suddenly got a little high.

Imagine that. Probably didn’t expect to be taking a leap in his age 28 season, and now his name gets thrown around as maybe the most underrated player in the league to national audiences on a championship team. The look on his face as he articulates “turned my career around” is really great to see.
 

NomarsFool

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Apart from being tall, I think it's interesting that DWhite doesn't really look like a professional athlete. If you saw JB or JT 'in the wild' you would think - wow, those guys are some kind of athletes. But, DWhite - he sort of just look like a normal guy. Also, if you watch the "All in the Family' FanDuel video, he also just seems like a normal person with his family. As far as we can tell as fans - he certainly seems happy with the Celtics and his role and his success. I hope that he re-ups and doesn't feel the need to go somewhere else to 'be the man!". We will see.