Exactly. Why isn't Pedro being discussed as the possible first unanimous HOF inductee (or why weren't Chipper Jones, Greg Maddux, etc).
RIrooter09 said:Exactly. Why isn't Pedro being discussed as the possible first unanimous HOF inductee (or why weren't Chipper Jones, Greg Maddux, etc).
jon abbey said:
He led all of MLB in hits in 2012 and helped take NY to the ALCS, missed basically all of 2013 hurt and then spent 2014 sucking for a mediocre at best team that wasn't going anywhere anyway.
So feel free to kindle whatever memories you like, do you not remember how the Nomar era ended in BOS? Manny? Pedro on the Phillies in the WS against NY? It rarely ends ideally for anyone, but he's had an impressive last five games at least, at the end of a long season of suck.
WayBackVazquez said:
Yeah, he had a 1.028 OPS in his last month with the team, and an .867 on the year (which would be the 5th best season of Jeter's career).
Dead Balls said:Yes, but in their last year Nomar, Manny and Pedro were not worshiped like a demigod byNYYfans of various clubs and the media alike.
Average Reds said:The final year of "Jeter the icon" (as opposed to Jeter the ballplayer) has been such a festival of merchandising, ballwashing and shamelessly ridiculous overstatement that it leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
jon abbey said:
So, the answer is "no, you don't remember", I guess.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/take/040702
jon abbey said:It's not a troll job, they shipped him out of town at the end of that month, which improved the team chemistry so much that they finally broke through and won a WS. I'm quite sure you remember this.
Dead Balls said:Yes, but in their last year Nomar, Manny and Pedro were not worshiped like a demigod byNYYfans of various clubs and the media alike. NO ONE GAVE PEDRO A BUCKET OF CRABS! Lol.
mauidano said:Hopefully he will ride off into the sunset quietly and settle down in his humble abode with a steady stream of freaky hot chicks never to be herd from again except on Old Timers Day...
EvilEmpire said:As for this year, sure, he sucked. But once the year is over, I can't imagine why there would be any sting to it. He's retiring at the end of the first crappy year he's had as a pro.
WayBackVazquez said:
Yes, the reason they lost in 2003 and the reason they won in 2004 was the difference between Nomar and OCab, Joe Morgan.
On the day he was traded, Nomar had an OPS over 100 points higher than Jeter did. But it was such a brutal ending.
jon abbey said:
So why did Boston dump an icon for pennies on the dollar then? All of the "Joe Morgan" cracks don't change what actually happened.
jon abbey said:
So why did Boston dump an icon for pennies on the dollar then? All of the "Joe Morgan" cracks don't change what actually happened.
WayBackVazquez said:
Because he was fighting with management because they courted ARod, because he was nursing injuries and Reese was also hurt, because he was probably going to leave the following year?
jon abbey said:
So why did Boston dump an icon for pennies on the dollar then? All of the "Joe Morgan" cracks don't change what actually happened.
WayBackVazquez said:
It's true, Nomar was the reason the Red Sox never won
glennhoffmania said:
What does this have to do with anything? WBV's point was that Nomar wasn't one of the worst players in baseball when his Sox tenure ended, unlike Jeter when his Yankee tenure is ending.
jon abbey said:
No need to put words in my mouth, clearly you've forgotten some details in the intervening decade.
they shipped him out of town at the end of that month, which improved the team chemistry so much that they finally broke through and won a WS
WayBackVazquez said:
Okay, so Nomar wasn't the reason they never won, but his leaving was the reason they finally did. Got it.
But at the end, Nomar played crappy defe...WayBackVazquez said:
On the day he was traded, Nomar had an OPS over 100 points higher than Jeter did. But it was such a brutal ending.
glennhoffmania said:Yes, Nomar was such a baby that his teammates played like shit to spite him. As soon as he left they decided to put in 100% effort and they won the WS because of it.
Christ. I didn't realize that the Jeterian intangibles argument could be used in the reverse against Nomar.
It's interesting how the wings mirror each other. The place looks like a millionaires duplex.Lars The Wanderer said:He should have gone with less house and more lot, but such is the nature of McMansions nowadays.
Lars The Wanderer said:
He should have gone with less house and more lot, but such is the nature of McMansions nowadays.
Dead Balls said:
"Nomar won't talk to me, I'm going to skip batting practice!", said no one, ever.
Plantiers Wart said:
Less field to cover, assuming his range continues to deteriorate in retirement.
JohntheBaptist said:
Wow, talk about missing the point.
Someone came in here joking they'd taunt Yankee fans for Jeter's end-of-career performance. JA rightly pointed out that that isn't exactly going to sting much, particularly when many players endgame can be generally negative. Is there a reason to believe the negative perception of Nomar's last days is somewhat unfair? Yes. But please with the "it wasn't negative" stuff--unfair or not, it was kinda ugly. He was the Golden Boy and by that time had turned to warring with management, the local media, in addition to reports he was refusing entry into games and using his injury as a bargaining chip. Then he was dumped and we won it all without the former Golden Boy. It's a stretch to call that a negative end in comparison to his status prior to that?
To put it another way--how many of you would actually consider an attack of "Jeter sucked his last year!" as stinging in any way to a Yankee fan? That's the kind of zinger many of you breathlessly report your dopey Yankee friends trying out for size. That was the point.
No, that wasn't the point. Go read the exchange again.glennhoffmania said:
No, the point was that some people were having a little fun talking about a really shitty end to Jeter's career, and just like 99% of the time whenever someone criticizes a Yankee a NY fan has to bring up a totally irrelevant situation involving a Sox player. We're in the Yankee subforum in a thread about Jeter- why are Nomar and Manny being discussed? We've been inundated with Jeter crap for two decades and we're just enjoying the absurdity of the finale. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's no reason to revive Nomar comparisons, or any comparisons for that matter.
It is true for me. Just like Average Reds said earlier, this entire final season of Jeter As Icon and baseball's ambassador has been terribly overstated and embarrassing for baseball purists. I guess if he hadn't authorized this season of ball-washing by announcing his retirement during spring training, we would instead have been subjected to maybe one month of the media eulogizing him instead of six from every agency invested in the sports, beginning with the shameless Yankees.jon abbey said:I think every Yankee fan posting here would agree with this, especially since it's gotten in the way of what's best for the team on the field.
terrynever said:One more thing: why do the players almost universally hail Jeter as a great player while fans who follow the sport so closely find holes in his game? Are we fans doing the same thing that negative media like CHB do?
Because they respect him so much?Lars The Wanderer said:It's probably because no one cares when we find holes in his game. The first player to say "Jeter had a great career but man, was his defense overrated or what?" would be villified.
terrynever said:It is true for me. Just like Average Reds said earlier, this entire final season of Jeter As Icon and baseball's ambassador has been terribly overstated and embarrassing for baseball purists. I guess if he hadn't authorized this season of ball-washing by announcing his retirement during spring training, we would instead have been subjected to maybe one month of the media eulogizing him instead of six from every agency invested in the sports, beginning with the shameless Yankees.
I would suggest it is Jeter's selfishness that made him a great player, and it was the same quality of his character that began to leak holes when he couldn't move off shortstop in 2004. He might have been a decent third baseman for a few years and taken a major target off his back.
I still have to say it was a lot of fun having him in pinstripes for 18 years (ignoring the final two).
One more thing: why do the players almost universally hail Jeter as a great player while fans who follow the sport so closely find holes in his game? Are we fans doing the same thing that negative media like CHB do?
jon abbey said:Thank you, JtB.
glenn, I have rarely seen anyone as insane on any topic on this site as you are on the topic of Derek Jeter (admittedly I mostly avoid V&N). While I'm sure you've been driven to this at least in part by the media and your Yankee fan friends, occasionally I feel the need to respond (mostly I let it go, and again, I have been as harsh as anyone here on the level of Jeter's play this year, day in and day out all season long).
terrynever said:Because they respect him so much?
A lot of the players were kids when Jeter began his MLB career so they grew up watching him. My guess is they mostly respect him for handling so easily the same pressures they experienced when finally in the majors. Jeter made it look easy for a long time. Even now, he is still smiling and enjoying the competition, though he is clearly struggling to remain barely competent.
One more thing: why do the players almost universally hail Jeter as a great player