Debut de la Rosa

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

He should be in the clear from the Tommy John, but the innings point is a good one. There's no way you can just pencil him in for another 15 starts for the Sox. He seems to have another 50 innings in him, tops. 
 
At this point in his development, it seems like those would be best spent with in the majors. Buh-bye Mujica?

 

[ivanvamp]

RDLR might be as good as Peavy, but he only threw 91 innings last year and hasn't thrown more than 110 innings in a season. He's already at 77 this year. I think giving him a few more starts and moving him to the bullpen for the rest of the year will get his innings where he needs to be to take another step forward next year, while giving him more exposure to major league hitters and letting him help the big club.

 
Good point, SN.  I hadn't really considered that.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

Did anyone watch the game yesterday (I listened on radio). It appears he was remarkably unimpressive and unusually lucky.
 
Here are the early counts in each at bat
 
1st inning: ball,ball, ball - ball, ball, ball - ball, ball, ball - strike, ball, ball
2nd inning: strike, strike, ball, ball - strike, strike, ball - strike, strike
3rd inning: strike - ball, ball, ball, strike, ball - ball, ball - ball, strike
4th inning: ball, strike - ball, ball, ball - ball, ball
5th inning: ball, strike, strike - ball, ball, ball - 
6th inning: strike - ball, strike, strike - strike, ball, strike
7th inning: strike, strike - ball, strike, ball - strike, ball, ball, ball
 
23 batters faced (only one put the ball in play on the first pitch)
13 first pitch balls
15 batters ahead in the count
 
What was going on? (I couldn't see on radio)

 

[smastroyin]

He was struggling with fastball command and after his last start he is clued into the fact that his changeup becomes more hittable when people are expecting it.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

Did anyone watch the game yesterday (I listened on radio). It appears he was remarkably unimpressive and unusually lucky.
 
Here are the early counts in each at bat
 
1st inning: ball,ball, ball - ball, ball, ball - ball, ball, ball - strike, ball, ball
2nd inning: strike, strike, ball, ball - strike, strike, ball - strike, strike
3rd inning: strike - ball, ball, ball, strike, ball - ball, ball - ball, strike
4th inning: ball, strike - ball, ball, ball - ball, ball
5th inning: ball, strike, strike - ball, ball, ball - 
6th inning: strike - ball, strike, strike - strike, ball, strike
7th inning: strike, strike - ball, strike, ball - strike, ball, ball, ball
 
23 batters faced (only one swung at the first pitch)
13 first pitch balls
15 batters ahead in the count
 
What was going on? (I couldn't see on radio)

He certainly wasn't lucky. They just couldn't square up the ball. Tons of poor contact.

He wasn't efficient on first pitch strikes, but he had the stuff to get back into the counts.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Something to keep an eye on, but is a two game sample indicative of anything yet? I think its related to competition (detroit and baltimore vs. tampa bay and minnesota)

In actuality, Id move RDLR to the bullpen once they have to make room for Doobie and Clay. Bye Mujica!

 
 

It may be more lke the opponents he's faced. The two home games were against the Rays and the Twins, weaker offenses. The two road games were against the Orioles and Tigers, much stronger offenses. So if he starts pitching well against the better-hitting teams, then I think he's ready to stay at the major league level.

 
Exactly my point.  We've got very limited data and his outings are against very different kinds of opponents.  To be making decisions on his future based on these sample sizes is ridiculous.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

It may be more lke the opponents he's faced. The two home games were against the Rays and the Twins, weaker offenses. The two road games were against the Orioles and Tigers, much stronger offenses. So if he starts pitching well against the better-hitting teams, then I think he's ready to stay at the major league level.

Link to this post whenever anyone brings up "catcher's ERA."

 

[HillysLastWalk]

 
 
 
Exactly my point.  We've got very limited data and his outings are against very different kinds of opponents.  To be making decisions on his future based on these sample sizes is ridiculous.

 
Wait, so what point are you making here?  And what decisions was (I won't speak for "CurtisPride") I making?  And what was ridiculous about it?

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

My point was making any decision on RDLR based on 4 starts is extremely premature, whether it's vis-a-vis Peavy or vs. any other option.

 

[HillysLastWalk]

And again, what point was I making that was so ridiculous?

Especially when my end game is RDLR in the bullpen (once Doobie and Clay are back ... which is real soon). Plus throw in the fact that the whole point was that we need to see more of the kids. That means RDLR getting more exposure to major league hitters (starting and relieving) so we can determine what we do have. Im asking, did you read what I said? Because I do agree, four starts isnt a lot.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

I wasn't arguing with you, unless you were the one stating he belongs in the rotation now over the other options

 

[HillysLastWalk]

First, just to be clear, just discussing.  No feelings hurt.
 
Anyhow, with the ineptitude of this offense, and the hole they dug for themselves, I do actually think that they should start looking to move Peavy.  I think he has some value. Though it may be too soon (teams may be trying internal options before the trade market).
 
I don't think there is anything crazy or ridiculous about it.  Jake Peavy has a 4.69 FIP.  He had a 3.96 FIP last year.  Brandon Workman sits at a career FIP of 3.40.  Brandon Workman gives the Red Sox a better chance to win.  And if Peavy gives us something that helps shore up the outfield, it balances competing this year with integrating the new, young guys.
 
Basically, RDLR gets a promotion to depth option #1. It seems, this week, Doobie and Clay will come back.  At some point, you may even find a way to get him into the bullpen. Lets him face major league hitters. Again, trying to integrate.

The Red Sox need to start seeing what these young guys have - and with the depth of options it may be the perfect time to do it.  Webster, Wright, and Ranaudo are available.  Plus, it opens up a spot in AAA to move Owens up.

 

[Sprowl]

Rubby against the A's: in a word, he looked great. Efficient, well located, not dependent on his changeup, and showing impressive stamina.

He is capable of multiple changes of speed. This is hardly the cleanest separation between fastball and changeup, but it does show a huge range between 84 and 99 mph. Rubby can really dial it up when he needs to: the pitches exceeding 98 mph are scattered from the second to the seventh inning. Not every pitcher can reach back for 98; Rubby can.
 

 
Even more impressive to my eyes is his command of the strike zone. There are lots of strikes, but few down the middle or belt-high:
 

 
 
The only big hit he yielded, Vogt's triple high off the right field wall, was on a low, outside changeup at 88, just barely in the strike zone. It was a fine pitch, handled well by a very hot batter.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

Rubby against the A's: in a word, he looked great. Efficient, well located, not dependent on his changeup, and showing impressive stamina.
 
***
 
The only big hit he yielded, Vogt's triple high off the right field wall, was on a low, outside changeup at 88, just barely in the strike zone. It was a fine pitch, handled well by a very hot batter.

 
I was listening to the A's announcers on XM in my car. They said that Jed Lowrie, for instance, squared up a few balls that went down as lineouts. Was that true up and down the lineup? The sac fly that scored the first A's run looked like a very well hit ball that would fall in for a hit.

 

[Sprowl]

Rubby against the White Sox missed his location as often as not, and threw too many pitches down the middle and just above the belt. Abreu took him deep on a middle-up changeup; Viciedo took him deep on a middle-middle fastball. Rubby's first start back after his demotion of convenience had too much middle. The surprise factor of the changeup is gone now that the scouting report and video have gotten round the league (Abreu was looking for it and waited very patiently), but on the bright side, Rubby's slider looks like a good multi-purpose pitch: he threw it for strikes in some counts, low and outside to RHB on other counts, and spotted perfectly on the outside corner when he needed it.
 

 
De la Rosa lives and dies by location, and if he regains consistency in spotting the changeup, he'll live very well.

 

[jscola85]

I wouldn't say he lives and dies by location.  The guy's stuff is not exactly the caliber John Burkett or Jamie Moyer.  Those guys lived on location.  He has a slightly above average swinging strike % and with a 94 MPH fastball, that's 2-3 MPH better than the league average.
 
That said, save for a select few pitchers, a guy cannot have a pitch map like the above and expect to perform well.  Way too many pitches either well off the plate or right down the pipe.  

 

[BosRedSox5]

I know no one is in here trying to crush RDLR's performance, but it's important to temper the data with the other evidence at hand nevertheless. The last time he'd pitched besides a single inning Sunday was a tuneup 8 days ago. He was recalled on Tuesday for Wednesday's spot start. Most athletes are creatures of habit, and I think it's easy to get a little out of rhythm when you're a tad bit rusty and just drove up from Rhode Island a day before. This seems like just normal growing pains combined with a couple obstacles. 
 
EDIT- Must be going cross-eyed. 

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I know no one is in here trying to crush RDLR's performance, but it's important to temper the data with the other evidence at hand nevertheless. The last time he'd pitched was a single inning as a tuneup 8 days ago. He was recalled on Tuesday for Wednesday's spot start. Most athletes are creatures of habit, and I think it's easy to get a little out of rhythm when you're a tad bit rusty and just drove up from Rhode Island a day before. This seems like just normal growing pains combined with a couple obstacles. 

 
I know what you're trying to say, but the last time he pitched was a single inning this past Sunday (only 3 days prior to last night).  Prior to that was a start the previous Tuesday in which he got touched up for 8 hits and 5 runs.  It could very well be he's starting to hit a wall as he's already exceeded his innings total from last year.  He may be ticketed for the bullpen in the second half just to keep his innings down.

 

[DanoooME]

I wouldn't say he lives and dies by location.  The guy's stuff is not exactly the caliber John Burkett or Jamie Moyer.  Those guys lived on location.  He has a slightly above average swinging strike % and with a 94 MPH fastball, that's 2-3 MPH better than the league average.
 
That said, save for a select few pitchers, a guy cannot have a pitch map like the above and expect to perform well.  Way too many pitches either well off the plate or right down the pipe.  

 
One other thing I noticed last night was that his changeup/fastball spread needs to be bigger.  He was throwing 93-95 last night with his fastball from my observations and he made guys look silly when his changeup was coming in at 85, but he got clocked when it was around 90.  He'd be more effective if he could keep that spread around 7-8 mph instead of the 3-4 mph he frequently had last night.

 

[Sprowl]

Rubby Ducky pitched to the Cardinals, and stayed afloat. His first fastball came in at 93, and velocity steadily mounted from there, touching 96 toward the end of the first inning, hitting 97 in the 3rd and 4th innings, and 99 when he reached back for something extra in the 6th inning. Peak velocity invariably comes late in the at-bat, so he's concentrating on location on the first pitch. Even so, DLR was not working the edges of the strike zone, instead challenging the hitters with heat and keeping the at-bats short. He was more conservative with his offspeed pitches, throwing only 12 changeups and 7 sliders in contrast to 75 fastballs. His release point was a little bit variable, which bears watching: his mechanics and movement both are a little bit unpredictable. He knows that the scouting report has gotten around, so throwing the changeup every other pitch isn't going to work anymore. He challenged hitters to catch up with his heat, especially in the third inning against the bottom of the order; at other times he showed more caution, working the edges of the strike zone against Adams and Holliday.
 
DLR's PitchFX

 

[RetractableRoof]

Each and every time I look at the PitchFx stuff, I wish that we could see some of the data from the old stars...  Would love to see the release point graphs for Martinez or Tiant or Seaver.  Or the strike zone charts for Maddux or the like.  I wonder what kinds of things we'd see / learn.

 

[jscola85]

A few more starts like yesterday afternoon, and Rubby could be the first guy to guarantee himself a spot in the 2015 starting rotation. Despite some highly questionable calls by CB Bucknor, he kept the dangerous Halo lineup at bay all day. It also appeared that he could dial up his fastball to just blow it by guys in higher leverage situations. Felt to me like he has his best stuff all year.

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

A few more starts like yesterday afternoon, and Rubby could be the first guy to guarantee himself a spot in the 2015 starting rotation. Despite some highly questionable calls by CB Bucknor, he kept the dangerous Halo lineup at bay all day. It also appeared that he could dial up his fastball to just blow it by guys in higher leverage situations. Felt to me like he has his best stuff all year.

Let's be honest here. Buchholz is going to be in next years rotation if they do not trade him. He is a lock. I love watching the "kids" also but the comment of RDLR being the first to lock down a spot is wrong. I will say that I fully expect the rotation to look something like this

Lester
Buchholz
RDLR
Joe Kelly
Allen Webster

I think Lester is coming back. This allows Boston to keep developing RDLR and Webster at the major league level.

 

[theapportioner]

I think the Red Sox will try to add two starting pitchers this free agency. My guess is RDLR, Kelly, and Webster will compete for two spots with the loser taking the long-man role to start the season.

 

[Stitch01]

Let's be honest here. Buchholz is going to be in next years rotation if they do not trade him. He is a lock. I love watching the "kids" also but the comment of RDLR being the first to lock down a spot is wrong. I will say that I fully expect the rotation to look something like this

Lester
Buchholz
RDLR
Joe Kelly
Allen Webster

I think Lester is coming back. This allows Boston to keep developing RDLR and Webster at the major league level.

Buchholz is a lock to start the year in the rotation, but I think I would bet on RDLR to be the Sox best starter next year based on who is currently under contract. The team obviously will need help elsewhere to shore up the staff, although I think its unlikely (call it 20% chance if Im pulling numbers out of the air) that Lester, or someone who projects to be as good as Lester, will be part of the '15 roster.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

If someone just looked at the last turn of the rotation (and saw the dodger DL move) they'd really be lovin' the Punto trade right now.

 

[jscola85]

Let's be honest here. Buchholz is going to be in next years rotation if they do not trade him. He is a lock. I love watching the "kids" also but the comment of RDLR being the first to lock down a spot is wrong. I will say that I fully expect the rotation to look something like this

Lester
Buchholz
RDLR
Joe Kelly
Allen Webster

I think Lester is coming back. This allows Boston to keep developing RDLR and Webster at the major league level.

 
Well, I wouldn't call Buchholz a lock.  While not likely, I could certainly see the Sox trade Buchholz if he has a strong August/September to finish the year.
 
EDIT - clarification

 

[bosockboy]

I think the Red Sox will try to add two starting pitchers this free agency. My guess is RDLR, Kelly, and Webster will compete for two spots with the loser taking the long-man role to start the season.

Yep. With Owens as the long term replacement for Buchholz.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I think the Red Sox will try to add two starting pitchers this free agency. My guess is RDLR, Kelly, and Webster will compete for two spots with the loser taking the long-man role to start the season.

 
I don't think they're going to sign two guys in the top tier, and the guys in the 2nd tier--the Hammels, Santanas, etc.--aren't sure enough things to be worth spending that much money to hold back a kid. Besides, what is the point of developing this much ML-ready pitching if you're going to fill up the rotation with 30-something FAs?
 
I think they will try to sign one major guy--Lester if they can, Shields if they can't, and one of the aforementioned duo, or equivalent, if they strike out on both. Opening Day rotation will include that free agent plus Clay, Kelly, and two from RDLR/Webster/Workman/Ranaudo/Escobar, with the other three as starters 6-8 and Owens, Johnson and Barnes (who has been turning it around of late) knocking at the door.

 

[ivanvamp]

What will make the Lester situation a bit stickier is if Shields signs first.  I see Shields as a very nice alternative to Lester, but if he goes first, then he can't be used as a fallback option if they can't sign Lester.
 
I agree that Clay and Kelly likely get two spots, and RDLR/Webster/Workman/Ranaudo/Escobar fighting for two spots.  I think RDLR has a definite leg up on the others, meaning that I think, in reality, Webster/Workman/Ranaudo/Escobar are fighting for one spot.
 
And I'm not at all convinced that we won't see Owens up with the big club at some point, pitching meaningful games, in 2015.

 

[BornToRun]

EDIT: I now realize this is the wrong thread and the posts above about potential FA targets made me forget that.

 

[bosockboy]

 
I don't think they're going to sign two guys in the top tier, and the guys in the 2nd tier--the Hammels, Santanas, etc.--aren't sure enough things to be worth spending that much money to hold back a kid. Besides, what is the point of developing this much ML-ready pitching if you're going to fill up the rotation with 30-something FAs?
 
I think they will try to sign one major guy--Lester if they can, Shields if they can't, and one of the aforementioned duo, or equivalent, if they strike out on both. Opening Day rotation will include that free agent plus Clay, Kelly, and two from RDLR/Webster/Workman/Ranaudo/Escobar, with the other three as starters 6-8 and Owens, Johnson and Barnes (who has been turning it around of late) knocking at the door.

I think Masterson is that second guy....just a hunch.  One of Lester/Hamels/Shields plus Masterson, with Clay, Kelly and RDLR rounding out the rotation with Owens pushing hard.

 

[Super Nomario]

I don't think they're going to sign two guys in the top tier, and the guys in the 2nd tier--the Hammels, Santanas, etc.--aren't sure enough things to be worth spending that much money to hold back a kid. Besides, what is the point of developing this much ML-ready pitching if you're going to fill up the rotation with 30-something FAs?
 
I think they will try to sign one major guy--Lester if they can, Shields if they can't, and one of the aforementioned duo, or equivalent, if they strike out on both. Opening Day rotation will include that free agent plus Clay, Kelly, and two from RDLR/Webster/Workman/Ranaudo/Escobar, with the other three as starters 6-8 and Owens, Johnson and Barnes (who has been turning it around of late) knocking at the door.

The problem with handing two spots to kids is that if someone gets hurt, you might end up with three kids starting. Kelly spent some time on the DL this year, and Buchholz hit the DL both this year and last year. Last year the Red Sox had 28 starts by players who weren't in the Opening Day rotation; that's pretty common even for good teams. If one youngster makes the rotation, one is in the bullpen, and a couple are in Pawtucket hanging out in case of injury, they'll most likely see a lot of opportunities in 2015 - and if they don't, that's a good problem to have, as it means the starting rotation has been healthy and effective.

 

[chrisfont9]

I love watching the "kids" also but the comment of RDLR being the first to lock down a spot is wrong. 

How about "RDLR is the first of the new PawSox grads to lock down a ML rotation spot"?
 
He's showing very good consistency (6 of last 7 quality starts) and while the sample size is small, it's getting to the point where he should've blown up by now if he couldn't handle the job. Thus, compared to Webster, Ranaudo, etc. he's readiest. Way more effective than Workman (whole set of issues there). I can't see anyone else from the minors jumping ahead of de la Rosa before next spring. And setting aside his relative progress, he just doesn't seem like there's any reason not to keep him on the Sox next spring, assuming they don't go crazy and buy up numerous veteran SPs. 

 

[RetractableRoof]

What will make the Lester situation a bit stickier is if Shields signs first.  I see Shields as a very nice alternative to Lester, but if he goes first, then he can't be used as a fallback option if they can't sign Lester.
 
I agree that Clay and Kelly likely get two spots, and RDLR/Webster/Workman/Ranaudo/Escobar fighting for two spots.  I think RDLR has a definite leg up on the others, meaning that I think, in reality, Webster/Workman/Ranaudo/Escobar are fighting for one spot.
 
And I'm not at all convinced that we won't see Owens up with the big club at some point, pitching meaningful games, in 2015.

If you are his agent, don't you have to be an idiot to allow Shields to sign before Lester?  Lester will drive prices up and may leave a desperate bidder in his wake that may overspend to get a name pitcher.

 

[ivanvamp]

If you are his agent, don't you have to be an idiot to allow Shields to sign before Lester?  Lester will drive prices up and may leave a desperate bidder in his wake that may overspend to get a name pitcher.

 
That's a good line of thinking, but you never know how these things will go.  If Lester takes a while, and other teams are finding pitchers to fill spots, maybe Shields gets a little uncomfortable and just wants to sign.  He knows he's getting huge dollars regardless of where he goes.

 

[Reverend]

If you are his agent, don't you have to be an idiot to allow Shields to sign before Lester?  Lester will drive prices up and may leave a desperate bidder in his wake that may overspend to get a name pitcher.

 
Not if Lester gives some lucky team a discount.

 

[Savin Hillbilly]

I think Masterson is that second guy....just a hunch.  One of Lester/Hamels/Shields plus Masterson, with Clay, Kelly and RDLR rounding out the rotation with Owens pushing hard.

 
I really hope not on Masterson. He looks pretty broken.
 
 

The problem with handing two spots to kids is that if someone gets hurt, you might end up with three kids starting.

 
That's why they have so many kids.
 
Of course there's another possibility, which is that they're stockpiling this kind of high-minors pitching talent with the expectation of packaging some of it in a deal for somebody like Stanton. In that case, maybe they will go the two-FA route next year (assuming they can, which I also doubt--there are other teams with pitching needs out there, and some of them even have money), and then the payroll will get pretty high when they sign Stanton-or-equivalent to an extension.

 

[Sprowl]

Rubby threw more sliders than changeups against the Angels. Part of that was attributable to the Angels' RH-heavy lineup, but it also shows his willingness to adapt to the AL getting used to his killer changeup by moving on to his third pitch. He used the slider in all situations: as a waste pitch away from RHB, or a high strike dropping into the zone. His slider is somewhat variable in movement, especially when he's throwing the pitch out of the zone, but when he wants to throw it for a strike, he commands the movement quite well -- see the cluster at +3-4" horizontal and 0 vertical.
 

 
Overall, he seems to be throwing more fastballs and fewer offspeed pitches than early in 2014, and he continues to show the ability to reach back for an extra 2-3 mph in high-pressure situations. Unlike Webster, DLR can always throw strikes; unlike Workman, DLR can bring the heat; unlike Ranaudo, DLR has accumulated a decent major-league track record. With the highest ceiling and the swing-and-miss stuff, Rubby is clearly the best starter of the youth brigade so far.

 

[iayork]

One of the most striking things about RDLR's starts this year is how his FB velocity has dropped without losing effectiveness.  

In his previous years, and in his first start this year, he was throwing in the high 90s, frequently reaching 98 and higher.  But immediately he started to drop down to the mid-90s, and his last game was his slowest yet.  It's still a pretty solid FB at 93-94, and he retains the ability to pump it up to 98 when he needs to.  His overall effectiveness continues, and I think he may be deliberately ramping back a little to gain extra control or extra movement. 

 

[Tyrone Biggums]

Rubby threw more sliders than changeups against the Angels. Part of that was attributable to the Angels' RH-heavy lineup, but it also shows his willingness to adapt to the AL getting used to his killer changeup by moving on to his third pitch. He used the slider in all situations: as a waste pitch away from RHB, or a high strike dropping into the zone. His slider is somewhat variable in movement, especially when he's throwing the pitch out of the zone, but when he wants to throw it for a strike, he commands the movement quite well -- see the cluster at +3-4" horizontal and 0 vertical.
 

 
Overall, he seems to be throwing more fastballs and fewer offspeed pitches than early in 2014, and he continues to show the ability to reach back for an extra 2-3 mph in high-pressure situations. Unlike Webster, DLR can always throw strikes; unlike Workman, DLR can bring the heat; unlike Ranaudo, DLR has accumulated a decent major-league track record. With the highest ceiling and the swing-and-miss stuff, Rubby is clearly the best starter of the youth brigade so far.

Good stuff. I agree with the majority of what you're saying. RDLR is my favorite out of the young starters as well. I feel he's a total non starter in trade talks and even though he's not Xander, I'll put him on the same level as him and Swihart. I love Webster though. I've been saying since March how high on him that I've been. I've noticed a pattern that Webster needs to repeat every level once. I think a lot of it is nerves and a less than advanced feel for pitching. Those are the two main obstacles that make him the outlier to the rest of the pitching prospects. It makes him less likely to repeat his mechanics on a consistent basis. Hence the walks and the yips. But if he reaches his ceiling that is your Buchholz replacement.

RDLR has a nasty change that he can flash from time to time that Pedro helped him refine. I would use the fastball as more of the set up pitch for that change up. I'm not a pitching coach though just someone who observes. One thing that seemed to get away from the pitching staff this year is pitch to contact. If you can get these young guys to just do that then the potential of the staff is excellent. Especially if you resign Lester.

While it's true that an ace makes life a lot easier, having 5 2-3's still gives you a 60% chance of being favored between the 3-5 slots vs the rotations of other teams. RDLR has the floor of a closer and the ceiling of a #2 IF he can harness his stuff.

Not to get too off the rails but a one year pillow contract to Masterson wouldn't bother me. He's on the same odd year/even year schedule as Beckett and Buchholz. He's going to rebound fine next year IF there is no physical issues. Still not an ace and more of a #3-#4. The key is to resign Lester and keep all of your picks.

 

[ivanvamp]

Masterson may not be a true ace (he doesn't have the consistency of one, as he's up and down, as you noted, TB).  But he very much is capable of having an ace-like season.
 
2011:  216.0 ip, 3.21 era, 1.28 whip, 6.6 k/9, 4.1 bWAR
2013:  193.0 ip, 3.45 era, 1.20 whip, 9.1 k/9, 3.4 bWAR
 
You get five guys like that and you're going to win a hell of a lot of baseball games.  
 
Ok, back to RDLR…...

 

[Rasputin]

We don't need a third or fourth guy. We have enough his to fill out the middle and back of the rotation. We need guys at the top.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

We don't need a third or fourth guy. We have enough his to fill out the middle and back of the rotation. We need guys at the top.

No kidding. We are loaded with 4's and 5's maybe even some 3's. Ben should be looking to add two starters who are considered an upgrade to everyone we have in tow.

We are in an ideal spot with Owens. Shut him down following the PawSox season as his IP go from 101 to 135 to roughly 160, start him in Pawtucket in '15 prepared to take over for the first injury/ineffectiveness. This gives us both good insurance while saving him a year of service time.

 

[Apisith]

Seeing the way the kids have pitched so far, I'd be happy with one of Shields/Scherzer/Lester.

Our rotation would then be new guy, de la Rosa, Buchholz, Webster and Workman. We would still have Owens, Ranaudo and Barnes who could step up. And Escobar and Rodriguez who have pitched well since coming so the pitching pipeline is still there.

Spend some money on OF depth and get a team that can score some runs and we'll be all right.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Seeing the way the kids have pitched so far, I'd be happy with one of Shields/Scherzer/Lester.

Our rotation would then be new guy, de la Rosa, Buchholz, Webster and Workman. We would still have Owens, Ranaudo and Barnes who could step up. And Escobar and Rodriguez who have pitched well since coming so the pitching pipeline is still there.

Spend some money on OF depth and get a team that can score some runs and we'll be all right.

 
No love for Joe Kelly?

 

[Apisith]

D'oh, forgot about him. He's better than Workman so essentially it's a better team than I posted if he slots in there.
Yeah, it's a bunch of 3s and 4s but I don't see a 5 in there. We should win enough to make the playoffs then hope one guy drags us all the way.

 

[Rasputin]

No kidding. We are loaded with 4's and 5's maybe even some 3's. Ben should be looking to add two starters who are considered an upgrade to everyone we have in tow.

We are in an ideal spot with Owens. Shut him down following the PawSox season as his IP go from 101 to 135 to roughly 160, start him in Pawtucket in '15 prepared to take over for the first injury/ineffectiveness. This gives us both good insurance while saving him a year of service time.

I think we have three guys with the upside of top of the rotation guys. RDLR, Webster, and Owens.

I'd be stunned if RDLR isn't in the 2015 rotation at this point and I'd really like to see Webster get a slot.

Owens isn't on the 40-man, I don't think, and there's no reason to add him before it's necessary.

I'd really like to see the 2015 rotation consist of Lester, Shields, Buchholz, RDLR, and Webster. I think it would be a high variance rotation, particularly Buchholz and Webster, but the upside is very high and the potential payoff so huge.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I think we have three guys with the upside of top of the rotation guys. RDLR, Webster, and Owens.

I'd be stunned if RDLR isn't in the 2015 rotation at this point and I'd really like to see Webster get a slot.

Owens isn't on the 40-man, I don't think, and there's no reason to add him before it's necessary.

I'd really like to see the 2015 rotation consist of Lester, Shields, Buchholz, RDLR, and Webster. I think it would be a high variance rotation, particularly Buchholz and Webster, but the upside is very high and the potential payoff so huge.

Agreed on RDLR being slotted in. Unlike you guys I'm not sold at all on Webster being counted on as one of the 5.....then again how can you rely on Buchholz either? To me the two certainties are Kelly and RDLR......which speaks volumes of the certainty of our staff. Add a 1 and a 2, throw Buchholz into that mix and let's go!

 

[Rasputin]

Agreed on RDLR being slotted in. Unlike you guys I'm not sold at all on Webster being counted on as one of the 5.....then again how can you rely on Buchholz either? To me the two certainties are Kelly and RDLR......which speaks volumes of the certainty of our staff. Add a 1 and a 2, throw Buchholz into that mix and let's go!

 
I'm not sold on Webster being count-on-able, but he misses bats so I want to give him a nice long leash. I don't think, though, that he's going to be in the starting five in 2015.
 
But think about it, a bullpen built around Uehara, Miller, Tazawa, Workman, and Kelly, and a rotation that's could throw Lester, Shields, RDLR, and whoever is pitching the best of Buchholz, Webster, and an offense powered by Papi, Nap, Cespedes, and Craig?
 
That's a team that can win a world series.