Dan Shaughnessy: Taking a dump in your mouth one column at a time

[BosRedSox5]

I don't really understand why Damon didn't want to finish the season with the Red Sox, I'm equally as confused as Shaughnessy:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2010/08/25/damon_must_have_his_reasons_but_what_are_they/

To me, it made a lot of sense for both sides... but this quote really had me scratching my head (well, not really because it's the CHB after all):

The Sox bumbled the Damon contract negotiations after the 2005 season. They misread the future. They figured Damon’s game would deteriorate.

They were wrong. Damon was worth every penny the Yankees paid him from 2006-09. He played hard and he played well for the full four years. In his final year of the contract, he hit .282 with 24 homers and 82 RBIs. Think Boston could have used that? It’s better than the sorry numbers posted by J.D. ($14 million per year) Drew.

What in the hell?

JD Drew is an excellent defensive player in a much more difficult position, but if we're just talking about offense Drew was better in 2007 and much, MUCH better in 2008 and slightly better in 2009. Damon is a decent player, and the Sox probably didn't project him to play at the level where he played, but comparing him to Drew is off base because he's just so much more talented it defeats the whole column.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I don't really understand why Damon didn't want to finish the season with the Red Sox, I'm equally as confused as Shaughnessy:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2010/08/25/damon_must_have_his_reasons_but_what_are_they/

To me, it made a lot of sense for both sides... but this quote really had me scratching my head (well, not really because it's the CHB after all):



What in the hell?

JD Drew is an excellent defensive player in a much more difficult position, but if we're just talking about offense Drew was better in 2007 and much, MUCH better in 2008 and slightly better in 2009. Damon is a decent player, and the Sox probably didn't project him to play at the level where he played, but comparing him to Drew is off base because he's just so much more talented it defeats the whole column.

Where Shaughnessy really misses the boat is the fact that the Sox projected one thing about Damon absolutely dead-on accurate: he wasn't going to be a viable center fielder by 2008/2009. CHB can whine and moan all day long about how Damon was worth every penny of the deal the Yankees gave him (and offensively speaking, he probably was), it wouldn't change the fact that the Red Sox would not have had a reasonable place to fit him into the lineup.

Damon moved to left field in 2008. Would have been hard for him to do that with a guy named Manny Ramirez holding down that position for the Red Sox. It would have been equally difficult for Damon to find playing time at DH with David Ortiz in that spot. So the choice really was overpay for substandard defense in center field (when Ellsbury projected to be ready by 2008), or let the guy walk a year or so early and make due with the likes of Crisp for the interim. Considering they won a World Series sans Damon, I can't see how anyone can not see they made the correct choice.

 

[CJM]

This guy sucks bags of dicks and those of you fooling yourselves into thinking he's a "good writer" shouldn't be fooled by decent sentence-level syntax. Just because you can string words together in relatively pretty fashion and your prose doesn't plod along like Nick Cafardo's doesn't mean you're a good writer. Good writers have something to say and make you think something you hadn't thought before. Shank never does that.

I don't agree with this, though we may just have different critical meters. The greatest writing redefines the way we experience reality, or captures some truth that we know to be true, but had never been able to quantify; I'm hard pressed to think of sportswriting that achieves these heights, though I can think of literary examples. Very good writing provides insight, and presents it in a fashion that is pleasing or thoughtfully crafted - Posnanski can get at this, Simmons used to, and guys like Talese and Ben Cramer have been anthologized for it.

Good writing, to my mind, acquits itself on the page and stirs emotion or thought in some way. Much as it might be unpleasant, Shaughnessy often stakes out claims that get people fired up (Nomar, Ellsbury). It was these types of articles I was talking about before, the ones that make me wonder what his agenda is and make me uncomfortable. Discomfort, though, isn't a reason for me to discount someone. Like Ozzie Guillen, I usually disagree with his extreme arguments, but welcome the conversation that arises from them. Not only that, but for better or worse Shaugnessy often captures the zeitgeist of a common type of fan in the Boston area. That zeitgeist is antithetical to SOSH's more objective, informed take on the Sox, but it can't be dismissed offhand.

Also, lost in the frequently justified conception of Shaughnessy-as-Shitstirrer is the fact that he writes articles that don't dwell only on the mean or spiteful. He wrote a hopeful article about the fight of the 2010 Sox (After sweep of Angels). He wrote a sad little eulogy about the loss of Pedroia. He wrote a "Bart's people" article about McDonald and a kid with cancer. I think he does a nice job of capturing a day-to-day fan feeling with these types of articles. Even his most recent, a slightly pissy sendoff of 2010 echoes sentiments expressed in the "Are You Nervous" thread.

It's true, he frequently writes lazy summations with no discernable point (like the Good/Bad Beckett). And, like BannedByNYYFans said, he's lacking in wit and true writing firepower. He also has a proclivity for the groaner pun. I'm not saying the guy's a great writer. He's a man of some writing talent with occasionally dubious motives. But I think he still cares, and his writing can still transmit that. I may have been fooled, so be it. For what he is, he's a good writer.

 

[TheGazelle]

CHB takes out the machete to hack away at Manny:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/dan_shaughnessy/09/02/manny/index.html?eref=sihp

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

CHB takes out the machete to hack away at Manny:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/dan_shaughnessy/09/02/manny/index.html?eref=sihp

Eh. Fuck Manny Ramirez. I like this:

Manny the con man spoke through an interpreter (White Sox bench coach Joey Cora) when he joined the White Sox in Cleveland Tuesday. What a fraud. Ramirez went to high school in New York City. He's been speaking fluent English for decades. He understands everything he hears in English and has never spoken through an interpreter until this week.

Good luck, Ozzie Guillen. You've managed some beauties before, but you've never had a guy like Manny.

What an asshat.

 

[IfCatfishWhyNotLuis]

I don't really understand why Damon didn't want to finish the season with the Red Sox, I'm equally as confused as Shaughnessy:

http://www.boston.co..._what_are_they/

To me, it made a lot of sense for both sides... but this quote really had me scratching my head (well, not really because it's the CHB after all):



What in the hell?

JD Drew is an excellent defensive player in a much more difficult position, but if we're just talking about offense Drew was better in 2007 and much, MUCH better in 2008 and slightly better in 2009. Damon is a decent player, and the Sox probably didn't project him to play at the level where he played, but comparing him to Drew is off base because he's just so much more talented it defeats the whole column.

I actually called Shank's editor to complain about this. I pointed out that by traditional numbers Damon and Drew were extremely close in 09 (Damon - .282, 24 HRs, 82 RBIs; Drew - .279, 24, 68) and that by OBP/Slug./OPS Drew was far superior (Damon - .365/.489/.854; Drew - .392/.522/.914.) I told the guy that the slight difference in their traditional numbers hardly merited calling Drew's season "sorry," and that the more important OBP/Slug./OPS numbers gave Drew a clear advantage.

He seemed genuinely interested and listened patiently. He agreed that the word "sorry" was too strong, given the difference in the two players' traditional numbers. But he defended Shank's use of it by repeatedly pointing out that it's an opinion column and, oh well, that was Dan's opinion. When I responded that the advanced numbers gave Drew a clear advantage, he again leaned on the excuse that it's an opinion column and said that in Shank's opinion the BA/HR/RBI stats are the only ones that count.

He said, however, that he'd mention to Dan that his use of the word "sorry" was probably too strong. I think he was blowing smoke up my butt in saying that Shank was just expressing an opinion about the two players' 09 numbers. I'd bet that Shank never even looked up the numbers while he was banging out the column.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Let me see if I understand this, Manny Ramirez is an asshole for using steroids, but it's ok when Roger Clemens does.

Too bad Manny Ramirez didn't send Shank's daughter a six-foot teddy bear, Manny would have gotten a tongue bath like Roger Clemens did.

 

[PBDWake]

CHB was on the frontpage of SI this morning and I saw his picture for them. I've never seen this one before. This may have nothing to do with his writing, but I feel it merits mentioning, because sometimes I lose track with this...


Dan Shaughnessy:

Phil Spector

Just sayin'...

 

[CJM]

Let me see if I understand this, Manny Ramirez is an asshole for using steroids, but it's ok when Roger Clemens does.

Too bad Manny Ramirez didn't send Shank's daughter a six-foot teddy bear, Manny would have gotten a tongue bath like Roger Clemens did.

I'm not going to defend that Manny Ramirez article, which was so full of haterade that Shaughnessy was named keynote speaker at the 2010 Hater's Ball, but he did have these caveats in his Clemens article:

"Clemens is probably going to prison and that’s his own fault. It’s obvious that he won’t get much sympathy from Red Sox Nation, but I am here to tell you that the Rocket was not the face of evil when he pitched at Fenway Park from 1984-96.

Things ended badly for Clemens in Boston (where have we heard that one before?). He was barely more than a .500 pitcher over his last four seasons with the Sox and it stung when he went to Toronto and won back-to-back Cy Young Awards after Sox GM Dan Duquette announced that the pitcher was in the twilight of his career.

In a final act of Boston betrayal, Clemens became a member of the hated Yankees and won a championship in the Bronx. That’s one of the reasons one could hear so much local cheering when the feds came after the Rocket last week.

I think Clemens used PEDs. I think he lied his butt off when he went before Congress in February of 2008. And I think he’s going down, just like Martha Stewart, Scooter Libby, and Marion Jones."

CHB was on the frontpage of SI this morning and I saw his picture for them. I've never seen this one before. This may have nothing to do with his writing, but I feel it merits mentioning, because sometimes I lose track with this...


Dan Shaughnessy:

Phil Spector

Just sayin'...

The difference being that Shaughnessy has only been convicted of character assassination, while Phil...

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

My point is that Shank had a meatball down the middle with the Clemens stuff and he clearly withheld the venom. He really went after Manny with guns a blazing (and that's ok, it's certainly his right and it's not an unpopular position to take around here). And I think that what Clemens did is much more assholish than anything that Manny did.

Especially when Manny's teammate said that he apologized to him and that it was a dead issue to him.

 

[lexrageorge]

Well, just when you think it couldn't get worse:

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/09/08/playing_the_usual_game_of_show_and_dont_tell_at_gillette/

Let me see, Shank, the Herald scoops you, and because the Patriots decided not comment publicly, they are "arrogant and distrustful". If refusing the discuss contracts in the media is "arrogant", then arrogance is clearly a virtue, no matter how the team performs.

 

[wutang112878]

If he really likes the Jets so much he should just go cover them. I dont think any intelligent sportsfans whom dont get pulled into his ridiculous scheme would be upset.

 

[Frisbetarian]

Eh. Fuck Manny Ramirez. I like this:



What an asshat.

Why the fuck would it matter to you or Shaughnessy if the guy feels more comfortable taking questions in Spanish?

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

Why the fuck would it matter to you or Shaughnessy if the guy feels more comfortable taking questions in Spanish?

He speaks fluent English. Using an interpreter after ten years in the bigs without one is an asshat move IMO. But it doesn't "matter" to me........let Chicago deal with that circus.

 

[Frisbetarian]

He speaks fluent English. Using an interpreter after ten years in the bigs without one is an asshat move IMO. But it doesn't "matter" to me........let Chicago deal with that circus.

Since you quoted Shaughnessy's racially insensitive (at best) thoughts on this multiple times on SoSH, it seems as though it does mean something to you.

Manny's English is only fair, which may be why he rarely spoke to the media. He is much more comfortable speaking in his native language. Why is that an issue? I seriously do not understand why people want to make him answering questions in Spanish a big deal.

Well, actually I think I might.

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

Since you quoted Shaughnessy's racially insensitive (at best) thoughts on this multiple times on SoSH, it seems as though it does mean something to you.

Manny's English is only fair, which may be why he rarely spoke to the media. He is much more comfortable speaking in his native language. Why is that an issue? I seriously do not understand why people want to make him answering questions in Spanish a big deal.

Well, actually I think I might.

Because he's never used an interpreter before and best I can tell he speaks fluid English?

Whatever. As I said, thats Chicago's problem now. I just found it amusing and classic Manny being Asshat.

Edit: And reading this a second time did you just take a veiled pop shot intimating that I'm racist?

 

[snowmanny]

I would guess that Manny spoke in Spanish to show support for his manager, who was criticized widely for complaining that Japanese players get all sorts of special accommodations ( such as personal interpreters) that Spanish-speaking players do not enjoy. I happen to agree with Guillen and saw no harm in what Manny did.

 

[Carmen Fanzone]

Because he's never used an interpreter before and best I can tell he speaks fluid English?

This is just tremendous.

:bravo:

 

[Myt1]

Dude, you make your own destination.

 

[Myt1]

Because he's never used an interpreter before and best I can tell he speaks fluid English?

Whatever. As I said, thats Chicago's problem now. I just found it amusing and classic Manny being Asshat.

Edit: And reading this a second time did you just take a veiled pop shot intimating that I'm racist?

By all accounts, Ichiro speaks better english than half the white players in the league. Is he an asshat, too?

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

By all accounts, Ichiro speaks better english than half the white players in the league. Is he an asshat, too?

If he uses an interpreter, then yes. As Carmen pointed out, when it comes to the English language I probably need an interpreter more than Ramirez does.

 

[Myt1]

What's asshatty about it? He's more comfortable speaking his first language. Why don't you learn spanish or japanese so you can understand them without needing the interpreter?

 

[CJM]

What's asshatty about it? He's more comfortable speaking his first language. Why don't you learn spanish or japanese so you can understand them without needing the interpreter?

There's a pretty big difference between a reticent, foreign-born player who has always used an interpreter as a mediator between himself and the press...and Manny. Manny uses the press as he sees fit (see the "apology", his sudden warmth in 2004), avoids it when he'd rather not deal (a major part of Shaughnessy's beef), and plays dumb to cover his motives. The Cora-interpreter may have been some socio-political performance piece symbolizing Manny's allegiance to Ozzie's statements about latino players. I'd guess it was Manny trying to be funny and kooky-endearing to a new set of fans, and it fell flat as a joke.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Why would anyone care what language Manny answers questions in? I would think the reporters would appreciate the break in tedium from repeatedly asking obvious questions and getting obvious answers and participating in the dance that satisfies the crazy assholes who care why Francona bunted with two on in the third inning and whether Manny is "sorry."

And, yes, I admit to being one of those crazy assholes when it comes to the bunting part.

 

[richgedman'sghost]

What happened to the Fris's posts? If I'm not mistaken, he wrote a couple of posts on this subject and now they are erased? Why did they disappear? Anyway, as Rocco said this is now Chicago's problem. Many could answer reporters questions in Chinese or in sign language for all I care.

 

[Frisbetarian]

My posts are all here, save one that I deleted after an off board discussion with Rocco.

 

[joyofsox]

Manny uses the press as he sees fit (see the "apology", his sudden warmth in 2004), avoids it when he'd rather not deal (a major part of Shaughnessy's beef), and plays dumb to cover his motives.

Sounds a lot like how Dan uses facts. He uses them as he sees fit, avoids them when they contradict his opinion du jour, and plays dumb about the entire thing.

 

[Dead Balls]

Monday Shaughnessy wrote in his column:
We watched Roger Clemens set himself on fire in Oakland.

What incident is he talking about? My Google-Foo has failed me and I can't figure out what he's referring to. Was this a dugout thing that happened?

 

[LMontro]

Monday Shaughnessy wrote in his column:
We watched Roger Clemens set himself on fire in Oakland.

What incident is he talking about? My Google-Foo has failed me and I can't figure out what he's referring to. Was this a dugout thing that happened?

Clemens ejected

The article doesn't really do the incident justice but I couldn't find a video clip.

 

[Frisbetarian]

That was the eye black and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles shoelaces game. The game where Clemens threw a ball at heckling fans in pre-game warm-ups. It was an all-time meltdown. Game 4 of the playoffs with the Sox down 3 games to none and Clemens going up against Dave Stewart, who at that point was 7 - 0 lifetime against him (soon to be 8 - 0). This game made # 44 in ESPN's list of all-time LCS greatest moments.

 

[dcmissle]

Brutal, even by the bar for him, which lies atop a putting green --

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/10/07/flagging_this_misstep_as_delay_of_gain/

Willfully blind as to the real problem here and, therefore, right down there with Borges today. Globe 1, Herald 1.

Unfortunately this clown has some national traction.

 

[Spacemans Bong]

That was the eye black and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles shoelaces game. The game where Clemens threw a ball at heckling fans in pre-game warm-ups. It was an all-time meltdown. Game 4 of the playoffs with the Sox down 3 games to none and Clemens going up against Dave Stewart, who at that point was 7 - 0 lifetime against him (soon to be 8 - 0). This game made # 44 in ESPN's list of all-time LCS greatest moments.

Great list. Fun to read now that October's rolled around.

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

Brutal, even by the bar for him, which lies atop a putting green --

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2010/10/07/flagging_this_misstep_as_delay_of_gain/

Willfully blind as to the real problem here and, therefore, right down there with Borges today. Globe 1, Herald 1.

Unfortunately this clown has some national traction.

I don't know, seemed pretty fair to me. Questions the Pats for getting worse in the short term and why if they tolerated Moss for this long, couldn't stick it out for 12 more games. I obviously don't agree, but his angle doesn't seem far fetched or with irrational "hate".

 

[Orel Miraculous]

Shank just completely recycled every playoff column he had ever written about the pre-2004 Sox and substituted the word "Rangers" for "Red Sox". He even manages to squeeze Ted Williams, Enos Slaughter, Bucky Dent, and Bill Buckner into the last 3 paragraphs--in an article about the Texas Rangers.

Why the fuck does this hack have a job?

 

[Blacken]

Why the fuck does this hack have a job?

Because people like you read his slop.

 

[loshjott]

Great list. Fun to read now that October's rolled around.

Dave Roberts' steal ranked 47th out of 50 greatest moments, far behind some sexier but far less important moments like Endy Chavez robbing Scott Rolen in 2006 and Pujols' mammoth HR off Lidge in 2005.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Shank just completely recycled every playoff column he had ever written about the pre-2004 Sox and substituted the word "Rangers" for "Red Sox". He even manages to squeeze Ted Williams, Enos Slaughter, Bucky Dent, and Bill Buckner into the last 3 paragraphs--in an article about the Texas Rangers.

Why the fuck does this hack have a job?

What was wrong with this column? The Rangers do have a tradition of sucking in October and just when it looks like their luck is going to change, they blow an eighth inning lead and lose that game and the one after it.

What do you want Shaughnessy to write about? He did make mention of Cliff Lee pitching tonight, but unless you're a dyed-in-the-wool Rangers homer, that's probably the only bright spot you can muster.

The Rangers' history is actually pretty interesting, if you haven't done so, read "Seasons in Hell" by Mike Shopshire. It's terrific.

 

[joyofsox]

So the CHB goes on and on and on about failure and heavy loads and being mocked and falling apart and unraveling and pressure and panic and awful burdens and a dark past ...

... and gets it horribly wrong once again!

It is also amusing that he mentions the Red Sox

In Boston it's always about the past. When the 2003 Red Sox blew a 5-2 lead at Yankee Stadium in the eighth inning of the seventh game of the ALCS, they were reminded of Bill Buckner in 1986 and Bucky Dent in 1978 and Enos Slaughter beating them with his mad dash home in St. Louis in 1946.

but "forgets" to mention the year(s) they told the heavy loads and awful burdens to fuck off.

Actually, Dan, in your mind it's all about the past.

 

[Greg Blosser]

Claudia Williams rips CHB in a Globe Letter To The Editor.

 

[Jackson]

<BR>Claudia Williams rips CHB in a Globe <A class=bbc_url title="External link" href="http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/letters/articles/2010/10/14/a_swing_and_a_miss_in_ted_williams_tribute/" rel="nofollow external">Letter To The Editor</A>.<BR>

Shank believes, correctly, that he can say anything about anyone without fear of being held accountable. Who's surprised by this?

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

He didn't say that Ted Williams was a laughing stock, he said that other people were saying that. And he's right. When word came out about the cryogenics stuff, Williams was the butt of a lot of late night jokes (Leno, Letterman, SNL, etc). Especially when it came out that the business was in some sort of mini-mall in Arizona, William's head was defrosted (or something like that) and completely mishandled.

Williams lived most of his life with a lot of dignity. In death he lost it.

That was what Shank was pointing out and if Claudia Williams can't handle it, that's not the CHB's problem.

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

That was what Shank was pointing out and if Claudia Williams can't handle it, that's not the CHB's problem.

And on top of that he was pointing out that it was sad. This woman is a dolt.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Have to admit that I liked Shank's column this sunday on losses that stick with you. I hadn't seen those BB quotes elsewhere and they were very humanizing.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Yes, because we all had forgotten about Black Sunday. Fortunately Dan was there to remind us.

 

[MyDaughterLovesTomGordon]

Yes, because we all had forgotten about Black Sunday. Fortunately Dan was there to remind us.

But I thought it was more than that. Sure, we hold onto those losses, but isn't the conventional wisdom that a pro like Belichick can let go of them and focus on the here and now? To hear him talk about holding onto a frigging freshman lacrosse game or whatever was, as Shaughnessy noted, a cool peek behind the curtain of the mind of a very tight-lipped guy.

I thought that column did what a column should do - give me some information that I didn't have and put a spin on a topic that had already been beaten to death.

The Brady-Moss-Hair column? Yep. That sucked, per usual.

 

[Koufax]

Today's column about videogate leads off with a mention about the Pats-Jets game being a week from today. Mailing it in a week ahead of time, eh?

 

[wutang112878]

As much as I criticize CHB he deserves some credit for this article. Awesome topic obviously and its more evidence that he has a lot of talent when he chooses to use it.

 

[tmorgan]

As much as I criticize CHB he deserves some credit for this article. Awesome topic obviously and its more evidence that he has a lot of talent when he chooses to use it.

And he follows it up with a column that deserves very little credit I think the terribleness is best summed up here

There is simply no downside to making Jeter a massive offer. In the worst-case scenario he calls your bluff and you get the Yankees captain.

Dan Drezner at Foreign Policy also reminds all of us that CHB is the yardstick by which everyone in Boston can measure hack writers by.

 

[wutang112878]

And he follows it up with a column that deserves very little credit

Yup, that column was unreadable once he said:

I don’t care if Jeter is way past his prime or if the Sox would have to wildly overpay a player of his diminished skills.I say offer him the world. Forget about Jayson Werth. Blow Jeter away with dollars and years. At worst this would just mean the Sox would jack up the final price the Yankees must pay. It could be sort of like Mark Teixeira-in-reverse.

He clearly was looking for attention instead of trying to actually write.

 

[mt8thsw9th]

Someone had printed that article out at work and left it in the bathroom yesterday. I picked it up, noticed the author, made a quick visual scan of the document, and then put it into the toilet. I proceeded to pee on said article, and then successfully flushed it after three tries. It was as satisfying as most triple-flushers.