Dalbec sent down to AAA (recalled to BOS on 4/12)

bosockboy

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0-19 with one walk.

A random NL pitcher in 1983 hit .140….this is clearly mental at this point also but it’s incredible he’s still in the organization.
 

YTF

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0-19 with one walk.

A random NL pitcher in 1983 hit .140….this is clearly mental at this point also but it’s incredible he’s still in the organization.
And he'll continue to be a part of the organization until his spot on the roster is determined to be blocking another player or until they feel that they can match up well with another team who has a player that they see change of scenery candidate.
 

soxhop411

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And he'll continue to be a part of the organization until his spot on the roster is determined to be blocking another player or until they feel that they can match up well with another team who has a player that they see change of scenery candidate.
especially with Devers injury status unknown
 

Rovin Romine

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And he'll continue to be a part of the organization until his spot on the roster is determined to be blocking another player or until they feel that they can match up well with another team who has a player that they see change of scenery candidate.
Yeah, I'm personally not high on Bobby being likely to contribute with the bat.

The one thing that gives me a sliver of hope is that he's so bad I think it's more psychological/MLB-tactical than true-ability related.

Generally speaking, I don't know what Fatse is encouraging these guys to do, but there are some completely dead-in-the-water hitters on the staff and Dalbec is one of them.
 

moondog80

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Has anyone in the media asked Breslow/Cora about him? I get that nobody wants to embarrass the guy, and he's only here because of injuries and will likely be gone when Refsnyder is ready, but dating back to last year we are at 147/206/221 in 73 PA with 40 Ks.
 

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Has anyone in the media asked Breslow/Cora about him? I get that nobody wants to embarrass the guy, and he's only here because of injuries and will likely be gone when Refsnyder is ready, but dating back to last year we are at 147/206/221 in 73 PA with 40 Ks.
What are they going to say? Dalbec has hit ML pitching. He has hit MiL pitching. He's not doing it now. They wish he would and they're trying to work with him to make that happen. I'm sure all of that is 100% true.

If he was blocking a 3B on the 40 man who could it, it would be worth a few questions why. Otherwise, it's really not.

***
And just to be clear, I'm not anti-Bobby. But I think he's at the point where, barring injuries, you only use him in blowouts if you want to get him ABs.
 

moondog80

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What are they going to say? Dalbec has hit ML pitching. He has hit MiL pitching. He's not doing it now. They wish he would and they're trying to work with him to make that happen. I'm sure all of that is 100% true.

If he was blocking a 3B on the 40 man who could it, it would be worth a few questions why. Otherwise, it's really not.

***
And just to be clear, I'm not anti-Bobby. But I think he's at the point where, barring injuries, you only use him in blowouts if you want to get him ABs.
"Is there a better option for a 40 man spot?"

There are lots of unemployed/easy to trade for people who have hit ML pitching.
 

Rovin Romine

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"Is there a better option for a 40 man spot?"

There are lots of unemployed/easy to trade for people who have hit ML pitching.
I doubt anybody is going to ask Breslow to comment on the lowest totem-pole guys on the 40 man, and I doubt Breslow would say anything substantive (and he shouldn't). Likewise, Cora's not going to talk about roster construction in that way.

If Dalbec were the starting 3B, there's a more direct question. But he's not. As you pointed out, he was already demoted and (essentially) recalled when Romy was injured.
 

moondog80

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I doubt anybody is going to ask Breslow to comment on the lowest totem-pole guys on the 40 man
He's played 4 times in the last 5 days, and might go again tonight. This isn't like asking why Tyler Heineman is on the 40. He's occupying a bat-first position on the roster and hasn't hit ML pitching since 2021.
 

Rovin Romine

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He's played 4 times in the last 5 days, and might go again tonight. This isn't like asking why Tyler Heineman is on the 40. He's occupying a bat-first position on the roster and hasn't hit ML pitching since 2021.
So, let's assume you're a reporter and you ask, "Is there a better option for a 40 man spot?"

What do you think Breslow should say?
 

HfxBob

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So, let's assume you're a reporter and you ask, "Is there a better option for a 40 man spot?"

What do you think Breslow should say?
"We're always looking for ways to improve the team, obviously. At the same time we don't think it's fair to anyone to speculate about what might or might not happen with regard to the status of individual players."
 

moondog80

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"We're always looking for ways to improve the team, obviously. At the same time we don't think it's fair to anyone to speculate about what might or might not happen with regard to the status of individual players."
It doesn't have to be in a public forum. You privately text Breslow (or an underling) with the resulting statement being "the Red Sox are exploring the market for organizational hitting depth at the corner spots". Or that they are not.
 

YTF

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It doesn't have to be in a public forum. You privately text Breslow (or an underling) with the resulting statement being "the Red Sox are exploring the market for organizational hitting depth at the corner spots". Or that they are not.
It doesn't have to be in a public forum, but isn't it nearly 100% likely that the response will be made public?
 
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moondog80

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It doesn't have to be in a public forum, but isn't near 100% likely that the response will be made public?
Sure. And if it's done in the manner I laid out, they are answering the question without directly commenting on a specific player.

Do you think he belongs on the 40 man roster?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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It doesn't have to be in a public forum. You privately text Breslow (or an underling) with the resulting statement being "the Red Sox are exploring the market for organizational hitting depth at the corner spots". Or that they are not.
I would expect such an answer wouldn't even be specific to "the corner spots." If he's admitting that the team is exploring the market at all, it would likely be phrased as a routine activity, i.e. "we're always exploring ways to improve all parts of the organization."
 

soxhop411

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Sure. And if it's done in the manner I laid out, they are answering the question without directly commenting on a specific player.

Do you think he belongs on the 40 man roster?
until we know how long Devers is out for... YES....
 

moondog80

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until we know how long Devers is out for... YES....
How does Devers' status change the answer?

If Devers is OK, it's good that you won't have to use Dalbec much, but I still want a better option in case something goes wrong.

If Devers is not OK, then that spot becomes even more important and the urgency of improving there increases exponentially.

The Cubs and Mariners both missed the playoffs by one game last year.
 

JCizzle

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until we know how long Devers is out for... YES....
Beyond just the new leg issue, unfortunately it seems like Raffy might be missing more than his normal share of games this year with the shoulder. Because of that, I think it would be helpful to have a 2nd or even 3rd option better than Dalbec. He is beyond lost up there. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he shouldn't be in the MLB right now.
 

jteders1

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Available players currently. Why not see if Longoria is open to coming, or Jean Segura who hit .277 two years ago and can play a couple of other positions in a pinch. We're talking about 2 million dollars and this is the Boston Red Sox for christ sakes.

[TH]TOTALS[/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH]14[/TH] [TH]$135,740,000[/TH] [TH]$9,695,714[/TH] [TH]AVERAGE[/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH][/TH] [TH]1.56[/TH] [TH]$15,082,222[/TH] [TH]$9,695,714[/TH] [TH]PLAYER (9)[/TH] [TH]POS.[/TH] [TH]AGE[/TH] [TH]BATS[/TH] [TH]THROWS[/TH] [TH]FROM[/TH] [TH]TO[/TH] [TH]YRS[/TH] [TH]DOLLARS[/TH] [TH]AVERAGE SALARY[/TH]
Evan Longoria 3B 38.5 R R ARI TBD Market Value: $7,034,077
Jean Segura 3B 34.1 R R CLE TBD -
Edwin Rios 3B 29.9 L R CHC TBD -
Jason Vosler 3B 30.6 L R CIN TBD -
Josh Donaldson 3B 38.3 R R MIL TBD -
Matt Beaty 3B 30.9 L R KC TBD -
Drew Ellis 3B 28.3 R R PHI TBD -
Charlie Culberson 3B 35.0 R R ATL TBD -
Hudson Potts 3B 25.4 R R ATL TBD -
Will Toffey 3B 29.2 PHI TBD -
Shane Matheny 3B 27.8 SF TBD -
Jake Scheiner 3B 28.7 SEA TBD -
Ty Kelly 3B 35.7 R SEA TBD -
Robbie Tenerowicz 3B 29.2 SEA TBD -
Ryan Dorow 3B 28.6 TEX TBD
 

jon abbey

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Donaldson retired in March, a couple years after his bat did.
 

Rovin Romine

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Available players currently. Why not see if Longoria is open to coming, or Jean Segura who hit .277 two years ago and can play a couple of other positions in a pinch. We're talking about 2 million dollars and this is the Boston Red Sox for christ sakes.
Because Devers knee gave out last night. And he's DHing tonight.​
Because the Sox have Grissom coming back in 20 days or less.​
Because the Sox have Hamilton/Reyes/Valdez currently on the roster.​
Because the Sox have Romy coming back at some point? (They know, I don't.)​
Because the Sox have Sogard and Meidroth in AAA.
So they're not going to sign someone who is washed up on a ML contract, put them on the 40 man, IL them, send them to spring training/florida, and bring them up in what? 30 calendar days? In case Dalbec might still at that point be on the 26 man and still not be hitting?

Which'd mean Grissom/Hamilton/Reyes/Valdez had mostly flared out and were not viable. . .at which point I doubt we're even still in the mix, and Longoria/Segura's arrival won't help at all.

You're talking about a really low percentage, pain in the ass, somewhat future fix of a problem we don't have yet.
 

moondog80

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Because Devers knee gave out last night. And he's DHing tonight.​
Because the Sox have Grissom coming back in 20 days or less.​
Because the Sox have Hamilton/Reyes/Valdez currently on the roster.​
Because the Sox have Romy coming back at some point? (They know, I don't.)​
Because the Sox have Sogard and Meidroth in AAA.
So they're not going to sign someone who is washed up on a ML contract, put them on the 40 man, IL them, send them to spring training/florida, and bring them up in what? 30 calendar days? In case Dalbec might still at that point be on the 26 man and still not be hitting?

Which'd mean Grissom/Hamilton/Reyes/Valdez had mostly flared out and were not viable. . .at which point I doubt we're even still in the mix, and Longoria/Segura's arrival won't help at all.

You're talking about a really low percentage, pain in the ass, somewhat future fix of a problem we don't have yet.
So you’re OK with him occupying the slot he has on the 40 man roster? You don’t want them to have a better plan C if things go sideways? Because it’s April 17 and they’ve already had to deploy him twice.
 

Rovin Romine

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So you’re OK with him occupying the slot he has on the 40 man roster? You don’t want them to have a better plan C if things go sideways? Because it’s April 17 and they’ve already had to deploy him twice.
Yes.

I honestly don't know why this is an issue. They have several potential ways to open spots on the 40 man. They don't need to drop Dalbec to do that.

When a better player becomes available for Dalbec's role he's going back to the minors.

If players come off the IL and Dalbec is the short man on the totem pole, he'll be traded or released.
 

simplicio

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There are unsigned guys out there that could probably outperform Dalbec, but the time to sign them was the beginning of spring training; anyone you sign right now probably won't even be ramped up before Grissom and Refsnyder are.
 

moondog80

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There are unsigned guys out there that could probably outperform Dalbec, but the time to sign them was the beginning of spring training; anyone you sign right now probably won't even be ramped up before Grissom and Refsnyder are.
That’s true, but if the confluence of events needed for him to get called up has already happened, it can happen again in July or whenever. Be prepared.

The only backups to Devers are Reyes and Dalbec, and the primary backup to Casas is shaping up to be a guy who has barely played there and can’t hit righties, and might be needed in the OF. I’ll guess that barring another move, something will that sees Dalbec back on the team once this stint ends
 
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soxhop411

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There are unsigned guys out there that could probably outperform Dalbec, but the time to sign them was the beginning of spring training; anyone you sign right now probably won't even be ramped up before Grissom and Refsnyder are.
Also. They are currently unsigned for a reason. If they could hit even an an average clip someone would have signed them by now.
 

moondog80

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Also. They are currently unsigned for a reason. If they could hit even an an average clip someone would have signed them by now.
I think it’s understood that you aren’t getting a league average bat off the scrap heap. But for the guy I wand to replace, the bar isn’t anywhere near “average”.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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It’s kind of amazing how awful offensively that all of Dalbec, Abreu, Hamilton, Valdez, and Rafaela have been. Like, beyond terrible. I guess this highlights the massive gap between AAA and the bigs.
 

jon abbey

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Also. They are currently unsigned for a reason. If they could hit even an an average clip someone would have signed them by now.
Brandon Belt is unsigned still, he had an OPS+ of 136 in the AL East last season.
 

jon abbey

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That one baffles me.
It's at least in part tied to his position, somehow GMs refuse to pay first basemen, similar to RBs in the NFL. ATL let Freddie Freeman go (although instantly replaced him with the younger Olsen), Pete Alonso is in his walk year for the Mets even with deep pockets Steve in charge, and personally I will be surprised if BOS and Casas ever finalize something. The Cubs let Rizzo go, the A's let Olsen go (although the A's let everyone go), etc, etc.
 

sezwho

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It's at least in part tied to his position, somehow GMs refuse to pay first basemen, similar to RBs in the NFL. ATL let Freddie Freeman go (although instantly replaced him with the younger Olsen), Pete Alonso is in his walk year for the Mets even with deep pockets Steve in charge, and personally I will be surprised if BOS and Casas ever finalize something. The Cubs let Rizzo go, the A's let Olsen go (although the A's let everyone go), etc, etc.
Holy crap.

I’ve seen the posts above referring to the current availability of bats that could outperform Dalbec (or whoever) and was very (very) skeptical. How could this be, I wondered?

I don’t know really know, aside from your position based explanation, but Brandon Belt definitely looks that guy.

Whatever team owners have decided to do aside from spending on their rosters this year, I hope they are happy. Can’t find a reference to his agent, but I don’t think we can blame Boras : )
 

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Holy crap.

I’ve seen the posts above referring to the current availability of bats that could outperform Dalbec (or whoever) and was very (very) skeptical. How could this be, I wondered?

I don’t know really know, aside from your position based explanation, but Brandon Belt definitely looks that guy.

Whatever team owners have decided to do aside from spending on their rosters this year, I hope they are happy. Can’t find a reference to his agent, but I don’t think we can blame Boras : )
I think it's the age of the 13 man pitching staff. There are only 4 bench spots available and you need a backup catcher, backup middle infielder, and fourth outfielder. There just isn't room for someone who can't play anything other than first base if they're not a starter.
 

YTF

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Holy crap.

I’ve seen the posts above referring to the current availability of bats that could outperform Dalbec (or whoever) and was very (very) skeptical. How could this be, I wondered?

I don’t know really know, aside from your position based explanation, but Brandon Belt definitely looks that guy.

Whatever team owners have decided to do aside from spending on their rosters this year, I hope they are happy. Can’t find a reference to his agent, but I don’t think we can blame Boras : )
Mostly just thinking out loud here...Other than being left handed, I'm wondering what other cons there are to signing Belt outside of the potential cost. Ultimately to take him on there will need to be a correlating 40 man roster move. Belt would likely need 3-4 weeks to get ready. Maybe you wait until Refsnyder and Grissom return, option Dalbec and then make a signing with Dalbec still in the fold until Belt or anyone else is prepared to take his place. In time perhaps Meidroth might be able to find his way onto the 40 man to be an optioable CI piece.
 

joe dokes

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I think it's the age of the 13 man pitching staff. There are only 4 bench spots available and you need a backup catcher, backup middle infielder, and fourth outfielder. There just isn't room for someone who can't play anything other than first base if they're not a starter.
I think this is the most logical explanation. 1095 of his 1171 MLB innings have been at 1B.
 

sezwho

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I think it's the age of the 13 man pitching staff. There are only 4 bench spots available and you need a backup catcher, backup middle infielder, and fourth outfielder. There just isn't room for someone who can't play anything other than first base if they're not a starter.
Interesting, and makes sense thanks. I’ve been pondering the impact of the innings/pitcher ratio continuing to drop (heading to a roster once for example) and that’s a place where it could be manifesting.

If a starting 1B, or maybe heavy use DH?, goes down then maybe Belt gets a call.
 

Rovin Romine

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I think this is the most logical explanation. 1095 of his 1171 MLB innings have been at 1B.
He's a 36 year old LHH 1B with bad legs ( https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/player/122656/tranx/ ) who will hit worse than Casas and maybe (at this point) only field a little bit better.

At DH he may outhit Yoshida, or he may not. It really comes down to their internals on Yoshida.

If a starting 1B, or maybe heavy use DH?, goes down then maybe Belt gets a call.
He's made $144M and lives on the west coast. So unless he still has the "baseball no matter what" itch, I have to imagine it would have to be a pretty sweet offer from a few select clubs. And guys like that normally find somewhere to play to stay sharp.

I'm not saying it's not possible. But there's a chance he may not be frothing at the bit for just any oppertunity.

As a PS - there's also CJ Cron, who AFAIK, didn't take a MiL contract. Same problems though, but a RHH. Which is not to say I think the Sox must grab a guy like this, but that the fact they didn't is kind of interesting.
 

cannonball 1729

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He's a 36 year old LHH 1B with bad legs ( https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/player/122656/tranx/ ) who will hit worse than Casas and maybe (at this point) only field a little bit better.
Also worth noting that his performance last year was partially fueled by a career-high BABIP of .370. The last time he had a BABIP within 50 points of that - other than the Covid-shortened 2020 - was in 2016. He'd be a prime candidate for regression unless he's discovered some sort of BABIP magic in his late 30's.
 

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Also worth noting that his performance last year was partially fueled by a career-high BABIP of .370. The last time he had a BABIP within 50 points of that - other than the Covid-shortened 2020 - was in 2016. He'd be a prime candidate for regression unless he's discovered some sort of BABIP magic in his late 30's.
If they put a mannequin at home plate, it would be a better major league hitter than Dalbec in 2024. Belt would have a low bar to clear. They are just committed to playing and paying young and/or cheap guys these days. I think they keep Bobby up until Grissom or Gonzalez is back.
 

moondog80

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I think it's the age of the 13 man pitching staff. There are only 4 bench spots available and you need a backup catcher, backup middle infielder, and fourth outfielder. There just isn't room for someone who can't play anything other than first base if they're not a starter.
I generally agree, but does the presence of a guy like Rafaela, who can play plus-D anywhere, make it possible to keep a bat-only 1B on the bench? Assume for the sake of argument that Rafaela's bat will be good enough to keep him in the starting lineup.
 

Rovin Romine

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I generally agree, but does the presence of a guy like Rafaela, who can play plus-D anywhere, make it possible to keep a bat-only 1B on the bench? Assume for the sake of argument that Rafaela's bat will be good enough to keep him in the starting lineup.
I think so. But the 1B-only provision complicates this.

Ideally the hypothetical bat would be a complimentary one - for this club, likely a RHH who is OK with pinch hitting (not all hitters are.)

But if they're a 1B or a 3B, you're looking at either taking Casas or Devers out, or subbing Rafaela/whomever in defensively. And that really makes the bat-first bench player (effectively) a 1 PH/game player, plus an occasional 1B sub. It would sort of be the same thing as carrying a 3rd OF-first quasi-catcher. You'd almost never use them.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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But you would use that 1b/3b substitute a lot if your starting 1b/3b gets hurt, which has already happened. The argument for much of the season was that the Sox didn’t need a good corner IF backup because Devers and Casas were going to play 150+ games. That was certainly the hole and the ideal but it’s not a realistic way of how seasons usually go.

Had the Sox resigned Justin Turner, say, he’d probably be playing a ton, right?
 

scottyno

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The one position Belt can play is the one Dalbec has hardly played all year. If they signed Belt and fired Dalbec into the sun that wouldn't help them right now even if Belt can still hit.
 

simplicio

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But you would use that 1b/3b substitute a lot if your starting 1b/3b gets hurt, which has already happened. The argument for much of the season was that the Sox didn’t need a good corner IF backup because Devers and Casas were going to play 150+ games. That was certainly the hole and the ideal but it’s not a realistic way of how seasons usually go.

Had the Sox resigned Justin Turner, say, he’d probably be playing a ton, right?
You don't sign a Turner if you're planning on parking Masa at DH though, they needed a more dedicated utility guy.
 

Rovin Romine

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But you would use that 1b/3b substitute a lot if your starting 1b/3b gets hurt, which has already happened. The argument for much of the season was that the Sox didn’t need a good corner IF backup because Devers and Casas were going to play 150+ games. That was certainly the hole and the ideal but it’s not a realistic way of how seasons usually go.

Had the Sox resigned Justin Turner, say, he’d probably be playing a ton, right?
Well first off, Justin Turner sucks at 3B. Which has been pointed out at least 20 times in these threads. So you might acknowledge that and factor it into the equation.

But you're generally proposing signing an effective starting 1B/3B with a "plus bat," and telling them that they were now going to be a PH, but might play on the off-chance an in-their-prime position player was injured? Then back on the bench after?

I don't think that unicorn exists - certainly without massive question marks of their own (e.g., Travis Shaw.)

Also, the 39 year old Justin Turner sucks at 3B. Like he really sucks at 3B.






Hey, did you know that Justin Turner sucks at 3B?
 

TeeJayOrTj

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It’s kind of amazing how awful offensively that all of Dalbec, Abreu, Hamilton, Valdez, and Rafaela have been. Like, beyond terrible. I guess this highlights the massive gap between AAA and the bigs.
I honestly don’t think it’s that amazing. Seems expected to me. This is why I was more concerned with signing Soler instead of Montgomery even after Giolito went down. But it seems the Red Sox have basically given up on Yoshida in LF when I was willing to give him another chance. At least at home and on the road vs RHP.
 

YTF

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But you would use that 1b/3b substitute a lot if your starting 1b/3b gets hurt, which has already happened. The argument for much of the season was that the Sox didn’t need a good corner IF backup because Devers and Casas were going to play 150+ games. That was certainly the hole and the ideal but it’s not a realistic way of how seasons usually go.

Had the Sox resigned Justin Turner, say, he’d probably be playing a ton, right?
How, where?