Conference Realignment Thread

wibi

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Isnt one of the big issues with adding BYU to any conference their unwillingness to play any sports on Sunday?
 

Sea Dog

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Isnt one of the big issues with adding BYU to any conference their unwillingness to play any sports on Sunday?
Big 12 basketball tournaments end on Saturdays (leading into the Big East championship game). There are some CBS basketball games on Sunday, and BYU simply wouldn't be part of them, but they would most certainly be on Big Monday or the conference's regular time slots on Wednesdays and Saturdays. Baseball would have to be worked out, but that seems like a simple-enough fix.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Awful turn of events all around for UConn tonight.

At least Cuse and Pitt will be around for 27 more months of hoops rivalries. these final two BE tourney's will be bigtime events, moreso than usual I'd think.
 

Go Big Red Sox

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For all of the bs that Nebraska had to put up with last year - traitor talk, Beebe allegedly to afraid to give us the Big 12 North trophy, silly on the field calls and such - it's hard not to laugh at Oklahoma for putting themselves in this situation. If they had been proactive in the slightest, Nebraska might still be in the Big 12 or at least Oklahoma would have options.
 

Go Big Red Sox

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THE BIG EIGHT
Texas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
Baylor
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
I get your point, but this should never be called the Big Eight. We're just a little touchy about that as Nebraska fans/alumni. While we look back at the Big 12 as a big mess and to a lesser extent a wasted opportunity, views of the Big 8 are a lot more nostalgic (i.e Texas schools can suck it).
 

grsharky7

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This whole situation is just absurd. So the BE is together for now, however any school could bolt at any time. The B12 is still not stable and could implode at any second.
 

Jinhocho

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PAC-12 has said no to adding any more schools (and specifically Texas from the Big 12) because of Texas Longhorn network revenue sharing issues.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6998751/pac-12-conference-decides-expand-further

I'm going to laugh my ass off in 10 years when Texas is in the same boat as Notre Dame is now given where ND was 10 years ago as a program and a national power
I heard the (wish I could remember the name) reporter who covers UT on a Raleigh sports show last week talking about this issue as the reason why Texas to the Pac-10 would not work. The PAC 10 supposedly has THE most restrictive agreement when it comes to revenue, tv etc of any major conference in the country. He was clear he saw zero chance of it working out and said this was why Texas was looking at the ACC and the ACC was looking at Texas. Since both have ties to Espn and the ACC TV deal gets rewritten if they add 3 or more schools, he felt there was lots of wiggle room to strike a conference tv deal with texas incldued that included a significant boost for the ACC while also grandfathering in the longhorn network. So far, this is going exactly how he said it would lol....
 

BigMike

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http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/6998720/commissioner-john-marinatto-says-schools-committed-big-east

BIG EAST Commisioner says the remaining 14 BE Schools + TCU are committed to stay together...um except UConn..and maybe a bunch of others still looking around. :rolling:

Also rumors were they may still go ahead with those Navy & Air Force additions to the Football side of the League.

John Marinatto has the credibility Charlie Sheen telling you he is alright now and can be trusted again.
I just can't see why the Service academies would jump into that mess. Sure I can see why ECU, UCF, maybe Memphis would love the opportunites, and they would all be great cultural fits for the conference.

Army just can't compete at the BCS level.

Navy could compete in football, and I guess maybe it would be a football only deal, because really they would have no chance to do anything but finish last every year in basketball. And they don't really fit culturally with a lot of the Big East football schools. I could maybe see Navy in the ACC, it causes the same problems in basketball, but a much better fit regionally, culturally, and in other sports
 

RingoOSU

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Not saying that I think the Pac-16 will ever happen now, but.. didn't the SEC say "hey we're not expanding" right before they added A&M just a few weeks ago? They're all liars. The Big 12(8 or 9 or whatever the fuck) is doomed. Missouri wants out. OU wants stability that doesn't exist. Texas wants to keep their LHN. Mommy and Daddy are going to keep hitting each other, and adding BYU or Air Force or anyone else won't fix squat. The conference will be gone by 2015.
 

TomRicardo

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Uneducated guess

1. Notre Damn
2. Syracuse
3. Penn State
4. Michigan
5. OSU
Syracuse? You can't even watch half of Syracuse's games in the city

Notre Dame
Penn St.
Rutgers (this has been growing steadily)
Michigan
OSU
 

TomRicardo

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Rutgers would be the local team in the city. Rutgers has made a real big push to be the city's team. They have the Empire St. Building light up red Friday nights before home games. They give out free Posts and Daily News with Go Rutgers leaflets at all the major subway stops. When they were ranked people were actually talking about them and their games were on all the bars.

UConn and Syracuse have absolutely no presence outside alumni in NYC.

Edit - Syracuse is just so far from the city.

BCS Schools closer to Manhattan than Syracuse

Rutgers
Army
UConn
Temple
UMass

Maryland, Navy, UVA, and BC are right about the same distance as Syracuse and are quicker drives. The drive to Syracuse is ten minutes less than Penn St.
 

Hendu's Gait

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Edit - Syracuse is just so far from the city.

BCS Schools closer to Manhattan than Syracuse

Rutgers
Army
UConn
Temple
UMass

Maryland, Navy, UVA, and BC are right about the same distance as Syracuse and are quicker drives. The drive to Syracuse is ten minutes less than Penn St.
Syracuse is 250 miles from Manhattan, through Binghampton and Scranton (300 through Albany), and Charlottesville is 340 miles, with DC traffic.
 

Dehere

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The whole argument about who is the most popular school in NYC is kind of beside the point because ultimately no school is popular enough here to move ratings or drive distribution of a conference-owned channel. It's like debating who is the most popular Democrat in Oklahoma politics. Somebody is but it doesn't matter much who that person is. The idea that adding, for example, Rutgers to the Big Ten is going to result in BTN being picked up by cable systems in the NY DMA remains a fantasy.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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Not saying that I think the Pac-16 will ever happen now, but.. didn't the SEC say "hey we're not expanding" right before they added A&M just a few weeks ago? They're all liars. The Big 12(8 or 9 or whatever the fuck) is doomed. Missouri wants out. OU wants stability that doesn't exist. Texas wants everyone to kowtow to whatever they say. Mommy and Daddy are going to keep hitting each other, and adding BYU or Air Force or anyone else won't fix squat. The conference will be gone by 2015.
No one has played this well. As much as it pains me to say it, Texas has been a huge part of screwing things up here, but no more than anyone else. Nebraska turned tail and ran away because they couldn't stand up to Texas. Colorado never wanted to be in the Big 12 in the first place and took the first opportunity to bolt. aggy is being aggy, not much anyone can do about that. Texas does its own thing. OU cries foul because they finally figured out no one is interested in a Sooner Network. Baylor holds everyone hostage. T. Boone Pickens, of all people, whines about Texas having too much money and how we need to share it with the poorer schools. PAC 12 looks at this mess and says, "Are you kidding me? Do I really want these dysfunctional boobs in my conference?"

So yeah, screw the Big whatever number it is. The sooner this conference dies the better.
 

dirtynine

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It would be funny if Navy somehow ended up in a big-time conference for basketball, after Ed DeChellis said he purposely left Penn State and took the Navy job to get back to "real" college coaching.
 

Mr. Wednesday

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Which NYC cable providers are not already offering the BTN anyway?
It's not about offering vs. not offering, it's about what tier it's on and what kind of per-subscriber rent the network can obtain. Inside the "conference footprint," they get something like 80 cents per subscriber.
 

mabrowndog

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The whole argument about who is the most popular school in NYC is kind of beside the point because ultimately no school is popular enough here to move ratings or drive distribution of a conference-owned channel.
Agreed. All it takes is a week of listening to WFAN during college football season to confirm this. The only discussion that takes place is cursory, and focuses on the national powers rather than the regional schools.

Sure, M&MD were doing weekly interviews and sucking Schiano off when Rutgers got off to the 9-0 start back in 2006, but since that season (and certainly since Ray Rice left a year later) it's been pretty much crickets.
 

TomRicardo

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Syracuse has branded themselves as New York's Team, so they are trying to identify themselves certainly with the NYC area.
Really? So New York's Team can't even get on NYC television and is not even talked about on the local news?

They do no promotions in the city or if they do they are pitiful and get no attention. Rutgers is far far far larger in the city.
 

TomRicardo

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Agreed. All it takes is a week of listening to WFAN during college football season to confirm this. The only discussion that takes place is cursory, and focuses on the national powers rather than the regional schools.

Sure, M&MD were doing weekly interviews and sucking Schiano off when Rutgers got off to the 9-0 start back in 2006, but since that season (and certainly since Ray Rice left a year later) it's been pretty much crickets.
Eh Francesa will talk Rutgers now and again. They suck this year which is what he said before the season started. SNY still plays all of Rutgers non national games.
 

ethangl

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It's not about offering vs. not offering, it's about what tier it's on and what kind of per-subscriber rent the network can obtain. Inside the "conference footprint," they get something like 80 cents per subscriber.
Which is exactly the point. The BTN is always going to be in a "sports bundle" package with a bunch of other channels (ESPN Classic, the Fox Sports channels, etc). Adding Rutgers will not change where cable networks choose to put the BTN in their tiers.

As far as the BTN subscriber fee structure is concerned, the "footprint" is rigidly defined per state -- and not per DMA -- so for instance, Penn State's extends the footprint just in Pennsylvania -- even though we all know PSU has a much bigger reach than that.

So, Rutgers may well have a large fanbase in NYC, but adding them would mean a subscriber fee increase in New Jersey, not New York. Now, Syracuse, on the other hand...

And it's $1.10 per subscriber.
 

TomRicardo

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I checked that one specifically and it is.
Oh cool what channel is it? I haven't seen it with the rest of the sports bundle

Edit - It isn't with the Fox Sports and ESPN stuff or with NBA channel or MLB. I just assumed it was the same as the NFL network.
 

ethangl

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Oh cool what channel is it? I haven't seen it with the rest of the sports bundle

Edit - It isn't with the Fox Sports and ESPN stuff or with NBA channel or MLB. I just assumed it was the same as the NFL network.
472 -- in the "TWC Sports Pass" along with ESPN Classic, FCS, FUEL, etc.

http://www.timewarnercable.com/nynj/support/clu/clu.ashx?CLUID=536&Image1=&Zip=
 

JMDurron

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Add Mizzou to the current Big 12 members, most of the reports today said the Tigers going to the SEC was contingent on the Big 12 falling apart, basically once the Pac-16 taking place. With that not happening, the SEC's in a tough spot -- follow through on not adding Mizzou because the Big 12 still stands, move to add Mizzou knowing you need a 14th team, or retract that conditional Texas A&M invite because you don't want to be stuck at 13. Not sure what the SEC does.
If the Texas A&M invite gets retracted, it will because of legal/financial issues with getting them out of the Big 12, not a problem with having 13 teams. The one thing I think that the SEC might be sincere about is their willingness to stick with 13 for some short-term period in order to get their favorite choices for additional schools further down the line.

The Nate Silver piece posted earlier clearly suffered from flawed methodology in terms of data collection and extrapolation, but one basic idea seemed to be pretty right on in my mind. That idea is that Texas A&M has a large enough fanbase in just the right location to be an attractive add for the SEC, regardless of what happens with any other schools or conferences.
 

bsj

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Rutgers is popular in NYC for about 15 minutes when they make a bowl game or have a decent season. The remainder the time they are a Jersey team that is largely the butt of jokes.
 

Sea Dog

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If the Texas A&M invite gets retracted, it will because of legal/financial issues with getting them out of the Big 12, not a problem with having 13 teams. The one thing I think that the SEC might be sincere about is their willingness to stick with 13 for some short-term period in order to get their favorite choices for additional schools further down the line.
If I'm the SEC, still looking for a 14th team, I might give Texas Tech a call at this point. For a second consecutive summer, their plans to head west have been stopped, but combine them with Texas A&M and suddenly Texas could become an SEC state. That would be far more valuable than whatever Mizzou delivered.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Big 12 thinking of expansion?

B12 Might Expand

So basically they may want to add BYU, Louisville and WVU, maybe even [gasp] Rutgers as the 12th.

Meanwhile UConn gets further screwed according to the report because their future seems to be tied--according to multiple sources--to ND. The ACC wants ND and then to add UConn over Rutgers as the 16th and final team. But the ND thing may be a pipe dream so UConn just sits and waits in the middle of nowhere.
 

TomRicardo

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Rutgers is popular in NYC for about 15 minutes when they make a bowl game or have a decent season. The remainder the time they are a Jersey team that is largely the butt of jokes.
Yer you think Syracuse is number one? Who talks about Syracuse?
 

bsj

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Yer you think Syracuse is number one? Who talks about Syracuse?
I just dont think that NYC is a college football town. That said, if you asked 100 people what college football team they follow, of the 20 that didn't say "I dont give a shit" about college football, I believe that Syracuse would get a higher number of responses than Rutgers. The exception was during the short 2-3 year stretch when Rutgers was really playing well (and coincided with the worst Syracuse seasons in program history). Fact is, in 1999, this wasn't even a question.

of course, you have a few poseurs who follow Notre Dame or Penn State as well.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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Big 12 thinking of expansion?

B12 Might Expand

So basically they may want to add BYU, Louisville and WVU, maybe even [gasp] Rutgers as the 12th.

Meanwhile UConn gets further screwed according to the report because their future seems to be tied--according to multiple sources--to ND. The ACC wants ND and then to add UConn over Rutgers as the 16th and final team. But the ND thing may be a pipe dream so UConn just sits and waits in the middle of nowhere.

As a UConn fan I just threw up in my mouth.
 

TomRicardo

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I just dont think that NYC is a college football town. That said, if you asked 100 people what college football team they follow, of the 20 that didn't say "I dont give a shit" about college football, I believe that Syracuse would get a higher number of responses than Rutgers. The exception was during the short 2-3 year stretch when Rutgers was really playing well (and coincided with the worst Syracuse seasons in program history). Fact is, in 1999, this wasn't even a question.

of course, you have a few poseurs who follow Notre Dame or Penn State as well.
You are wrong. No one gives a shit about Syracuse in NYC outside of Syracuse grads. The fact you keep arguing this is retarded.

But I knew you were an idiot. So I am even more of an idiot for engaging you.

Syracuse has nothing to do with NYC.
 

Butch Hobsons elbo chips

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It would be funny if Navy somehow ended up in a big-time conference for basketball, after Ed DeChellis said he purposely left Penn State and took the Navy job to get back to "real" college coaching.
I think the Navy & Air Force invitations would be FOOTBALL ONLY for the Big East since they are independents.
They may try to sneak Navy in Big East for LAX on a side deal but no one is looking to start sending non-revenue sports out to play Air Force Academy.
The Fact is that Army/Navy fit the Patriot League for almost all sports outside their FBS Football independence.
 

Kremlin Watcher

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Big 12 thinking of expansion?
I'd be mildly surprised if the Big 12 expands beyond ten teams (assuming they get the tenth or that aggy screws up their exit again). The television deal they negotiated last year contemplates ten teams, so they'd need some renegotiation of that deal upon the addition of two more teams, and unless the new teams bring in really great markets, that might be a challenge.
 

JMDurron

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If I'm the SEC, still looking for a 14th team, I might give Texas Tech a call at this point. For a second consecutive summer, their plans to head west have been stopped, but combine them with Texas A&M and suddenly Texas could become an SEC state. That would be far more valuable than whatever Mizzou delivered.
No team other than Texas can "own" Texas, Texas will never be a SEC state in the sense that I think you mean unless Texas joins the SEC. I don't get the impression that Texas Tech would even move the needle for the SEC in terms of Texas exposure. If the A&M move goes through, the SEC will already have the biggest and most significant footprint that they can get in the state without actually adding the University of Texas. We also don't know how much effort the SEC is putting into finding a 14th team right now, because we still don't know that they even have a 13th team yet! Texas Tech delivers nothing, which is essentially even less value than what West Virginia could have delivered (another school that is at least football-crazy), nevermind Missouri (at least decent sports, at least decent academics, and the STL and KC markets).
 

TomRicardo

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I'd be mildly surprised if the Big 12 expands beyond ten teams (assuming they get the tenth or that aggy screws up their exit again). The television deal they negotiated last year contemplates ten teams, so they'd need some renegotiation of that deal upon the addition of two more teams, and unless the new teams bring in really great markets, that might be a challenge.
And give up the dream of a Championship game in Dallas?
 

Clears Cleaver

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Something to consider here. This is all on me, didn't hear from anyone at Uconn or associated with the school. ESPN just got a $25M tax break from the state of CT (along with Cigna) to remain in the state and bring in 600 jobs over the next 5 years. ESPN is driving expansion, epecially for the ACC, to which ESPN pays for rights. The Big East did not re-up with ESPN last year when they had the chance, holding out that adding TCU and maybe Navy and UCF would have brought in NBC/Comcast and/or Fox to bid up ESPN for rights. This pissed ESPN off, and they are more than happy to monopolize the East coast with their now below-market deal with the ACC, which will now be sweetened with the additions of Syracuse and Pitt. I would be willing to bet that the State of CT is or has called in its chit with ESPN because if the state University were to drop out of a AQS conference, it would hurt the school, the economy and state's perception a hell of a lot more than losing the employees at ESPN (who would have a hard time relocating given the overhead at their campus).

I didn't think of this until the governor of CT commented about conference realignment. But I'd bet anything this is happening. It also explaisn UConn Pres bravado regarding not commiting to the BE and comments from "unnamed sources" stating Uconn is next in line for the ACC after ND.

Does ESPN have that kind of power? I believe it does. I can't make a case that Uconn is a better choice than Rutgers or WVU or Louisville, but all I have read is Uconn is the choice.

Or maybe I have no fucking idea what I'm talking about.
 

bsj

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You are wrong. No one gives a shit about Syracuse in NYC outside of Syracuse grads. The fact you keep arguing this is retarded.

But I knew you were an idiot. So I am even more of an idiot for engaging you.

Syracuse has nothing to do with NYC.
No one in New York wants a damn thing to do with New Jersey. Period. That you don't know this is strange to me.

Look...Syracuse is the only BCS team in the state. The largest alumni concentration of Syracuse University is located in New York City. NYC is not a Syracuse town. But there is a small active following there, and the interest, at its best, is far greater than that of Rutgers, the ugly stepchild collegiate team of the area whose 15 minutes has long since come and gone. If Syracuse hadnt bottomed out on the 2000s, this wouldnt even be close. Syracuse owned recruiting in CT, NYC, and Long Island for about 15 years prior to the popfart that was the Schiano led Knights combined with the GRob disaster.

Keep in mind...I am not talking TV market. The New York DMA Rutgers blows away Syracuse nearly 4 to 1 because that includes New Jersey, in which Rutgers beats Syracuse something like 10 to 1.

From Dennis Dodd, CBS... http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/15616479/wake-me-up-when-this-realignment-nightmare-is-over
ACC: Remember that big deal with ESPN that doubled the ACC's rights intake in July? It's about to go up. John Swofford is going to leverage the addition of Syracuse and Pittsburgh to claim that the ACC has the entire Eastern seaboard, including New York. That's worth a lot more than $1.86 billion over 12 years.
 

TomRicardo

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So dennis dodd is retarded and doesn't understand geography either. Awesome. If you aren't on the local news no one gives a shit
 

TomRicardo

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So dennis dodd is retarded and doesn't understand geography either. Awesome. If you aren't on the local news no one gives a shit
 

TomRicardo

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If you think there are more syracuse alumni than rutgers in nyc running the I am super excited about going to tier 2 school you probably shouldn't have got into a tier 2 school
 

Infield Infidel

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Yep, your right Tom. Rutgers football hosted the first college football in 1869, and wasn't relevant again for 137 years. They've been to six bowls ever, and only one before 2005. No one outside of Rutgers alums give a crap about them.

Meanwhile, Syracuse has been to 24 bowls, 8 BCS-level bowls, has 14 CFB Hall of Famers, a Heisman winner (Ernie Davis), and the best football and lacrosse player ever (Jim Brown). Cuse dominates recruiting in NYC and Long Island. Pre-2005 this isn't even a discussion. There's a billion reasons the ACC grabbed Syracuse instead of Rutgers, and the main one is that it's actually in New York
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Rutgers is a commuter school, it doesn't fit in with any of the other schools that the ACC currently has. UConn and ND make all of the sense in the world. I have no doubt in my mind that ESPN and other TV contracts are playing a huge role in this.
 

8slim

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Sorry I didn't reply earlier. Top team in the NY markey (not just the city, but the entire DMA) is Notre Dame. #2 is Penn State. These two make up about 35-40% of all fans, although to be clear, the NY market has one of the lowest per capita concentrations of CFB fans in the country. The rest of the list tends to be a hodge podge... Michigan and Ohio State are always on it. There's also always a "hot" team or two that the bandwagoners get into (Florida, Alabama, etc). Depending on their success either Rutgers or Syracuse can get as high as 3rd. In the 90s Syracuse was regulalrly 3rd, while in the mid-2000s Rutgers held that spot. But they both would tend to come in around ~8% share, always well behind ND and PSU.

Google "Luker Sports Poll" if you want to try and track down this data yourself. I cant post it here from where I see it, sorry, I know that's dickish but I like my job.

Anyway, my intent was not to start a pissing match. Just trying to bring some data to the discussion. There's a reason why neither the Big Ten nor ACC has grabbed Rutgers, and it's because once they did some research they realize that they're a paper tiger in terms of delivering their home market. There's other reasons too, but that's an obvious one.

BTW Tom, Syracuse has a significant hoops following in NYC aside from alums. They've had many NYC kids come through the program and have built a lot of relationships with folks up in Harlem and out in Brooklyn, Queens and the Bronx since the 80s. And just about every game is on SNY, both hoops and football, the schol has a deal with them (as does UConn).