They would trade Whitlock and/or Houck with some other pieces for one of the starters.
We are talking about the future. I'll take the under for next year.
fWAR loves his K and BB rate, dings his HR rate, and thinks everything else is just BABIP noise.
No. And they're not likely to to expect anything more than 150-ish innings at a mid/lower rotation level from those guys.
Okay, but who do you think those people are? I agree with your analysis and the desire here, but you kind of handwave away this question by saying stuff like it's not my job, and it's kind of an important part of the puzzle.
But it’s not his job. It’s Chaim Blooms job, he needs to figure it out. The whole point of a GM / VP of baseball Ops is to be able to identify which players will outperform, or equally perform what your expectation of them is. Bloom rolls the dice constantly with these guys, did well with Wacha, not so great with just about any other. Results matter, it’s his job to identify the correct big FA to sign and the value guys who can bounce back / take a step forward. So far he’s been pretty bad at this. I don’t care where we get these starter innings from. Weather is a big name FA, or a bargain bin rental like usual, as long as they give us consistent above average starting pitching. We have yet to see that in the Bloom era.
Except for:
I'm not handwaving. Its that I'm not the President of Baseball Ops of the Red Sox. There's no chance that I have more knowledge of starting pitchers throughout the majors than Bloom does. And I sure don't have the resources to discover viable acquisition targets than his team does.
I think he’s talking about starters. Also not sure who Velazquez is referring to- Phillips Valdez, perhaps?
I was thinking of Hector Velazquez - but he does not apply to this discussion as we picked him up in 2017.
I think that's right. 2020 should just be ignored as the stopgap that it was.
Okay but by this same logic, none of us is equipped to offer any commentary whatsoever. If we don't have adequate knowledge of starting pitchers throughout the majors like Bloom does, then we also don't have adequate knowledge of the difficulty of acquiring starting pitchers like he does.
Is it your contention that the Sox should not try to acquire starting pitchers this off-season? I’m not being snarky, I’m asking sincerely.
I was referencing starting pitching, and if your counterpoint to the lack of being able to identify pitchers who can give us decent production is Paxton, Perez, Hill, Richards, and Pivetta, than you’ve already lost the argument. All of those guys had stretches where they were decent avergeish starters, but not for a full season and if I remember correctly 3 of those 5 were eventually demoted to the pen.
Huh. I guess I lost it because I didn't mention Wacha? Or is it because relief pitchers don't give production? Or because someone wasn't psychic and didn't anticipate the sticky-ban?
Pivetta never had a full season as an averageish starter? He's thrown 450+ league averageish innings in the last 3 years.
No, I think we probably should, because its closer to go time. Our prospects are just about ready, others have made the leap, and this winter has a lot more arms available.
Which implies that signing or trading for quote-unquote reliable starters was always a better strategy than developing Houck, Whitlock, Crawford, Pivetta and Bello into them, or trying to recuperate one (aka a flyer or reclamation project). I disagree.
I’ve said here repeatedly that giving guys like Houck, Whitlock, Cassas, etc. 2023 to figure things out was an absolute necessity.
Right—and here’s where my ambivalence flares up again. Who? Who is worth the risk of outbidding the field on? Because it would truly suck to sign a Rodón or Taillon or Robbie Ray or Steven Matz type and be in the same boat.
And again, I don’t know. I do imagine that there are *2* starting pitchers across the other 29 MLB teams that would improve the 2024 Sox if we acquired them.
Not sure it was intentional or not but two guys you listed, Springs and Strahm, are guys that the Sox GM did bring ain. And they were terrible (7+ ERA/5+ xERA) and unremarkable (paid $15M/2 years by the phillies after 44 innings of 4 xFIP on the Sox) respectively. Our GM should have signed Strahm instead of Martin (FIP of 2 last year)? Would have been an odd use of resources to sign both guys.
Let's not overreact. (bwahahahahahaha, I know). The word "intended" there pretty much leaves the entire universe of possibilities for him not being the OD starter. Cora "intends" to be the OD manager.
Yeah, but the audience for that statement is not us, it's one specific person, and I think it's best for everyone, including us, if that one guy has a good offseason.
That particular measurement does not appear on my Sox-branded Freakout-o-meter.
Who cares about 2024 Opening Day. I want to know who is starting Opening Day 2025 for us
I assume the intended audience is the next GM? And Cora is saying so that dude understands how desperately the team needs starting pitching help?!
Unless we have access to a time machine, I think it's going to be hard to find two starters this offseason who average 6+ innings pitched per start (let alone those who did so with a 3.50 ERA). There were only 17 such pitchers in baseball that averaged 6 innings or more per start this year. Innings pitched by starters is down across the board this year, continuing the trend of the last several years. In 2013, there were 36 pitchers who threw 200 innings or more. There might be 6 this year, depending on how things shake out over the weekend.
The guy from Japan sou ds like one and either a top FA or a big trade. This team needs two guys at the top who make 30 starts and throw 175 to 200 innings. I am tired of looking at the AL East standings gs and starting at the bottom. This is a killer division. It is not going to get easier. The Yankees will not make their fans suffer like Sox management and or ownership has done to us. They will compete quickly. If the Sox don't spend huge and leverage some of their prospects we will be in last place again. Just heard the Sox are playing the longest games of any team. Seems like further condemnation if the pitching staff as much or more than an affirmation of our offense.
There were exactly 12 pitchers in baseball who threw 175+ innings with a sub 3.50 era this year, the odds of any single team acquiring 2 guys that do that in the same off-season are almost nil
Amen to this. I owe $50 to Jimmy Fund for his >5 quality starts, but he really is no longer an ace. If he does start 2024 Opening Day, I hope that means he had a great spring rather than that the new GM whiffed on pitching in the offseason.
First, a total of 31 MLB pitchers have at least 30 starts and 175 innings. So, your proposed goal is not impossible, but not a simple task either.
Longest average games this season:
