So he is forcing two teams, rather than one, to walk away from a project that requires zero public funding and ask municipalities for public funding?
Chargers will stay in San Diego for 2016 season
- Thread starter soxhop411
- Start date
Is there any analysis or student--not sponsored by the NFL--that offers evidence that public subsidies of stadiums provide any sort of long-term benefit? In other words, are subsidies taking money from cash-strapped cities and giving billionaire owners a bargain? I've read enough Tuesday Morning Quarterback to know that, in most cases if not all cases, public subsides do not benefit or help cities.
Well, he didn't own the Jaguars when he tried to buy the Rams
....Khan has invested over 30 million in the city owned stadium (which is now great by the way) to date. They are about to break ground on another 90 million project (Khan's portion 45 mil) to make the stadium more of an entertainment venue/destination. In addition, he has proposed a massive waterfront development on an empty tract of land next to the stadium and would likely receive a pretty "Khan friendly deal" from the city.
Forbes has the franchise now valued higher than the Rams and their local revenues now (yes, helped by the extended London deal) exceed as well. Throw in costs to move (and I think breaking the lease would be something like 100 mil), area growth projections, and I am wondering where the benefit is.
Now if the NFL decides to expand to London, all bets are off.
As much as I like the Vince Ferragamo color scheme, damn, that's a good look.They should go back to the royal blue and white.
More seriously, thanks for all of your analysis from the OAK perspective. Very helpful in getting a handle on it all.
Here's my question: why couldn't - or wouldn't - Congress pass a law banning the use of public funds to subsidize stadium construction? Wouldn't that be wildly popular with most voters and also remove a tool of extortion which ultimately really only benefits the owners?
There might be a constitutional issue (federalism/vertical separation of powers) with Congress saying how states/cities can or cannot spend their money, either as a flat out ban or by attaching strings if the strings are considered sufficiently coercive by the judiciary.
They should go back to the royal blue and white.
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One on the left, looks like the real uniform got washed out in the laundry. Go with the blue and gold.
One on the left, looks like the real uniform got washed out in the laundry. Go with the blue and gold.
John Taylor's 2 (two) receiving touchdowns over 90 yards each from Joe Montana on MNF to bring SF back from 17 - 0 down and defeat the Rams would be it for me. Of course, that's from a SF fair weather fan bias standpoint.
Yeah, this is what baffles me the most. The first vote yesterday was clearly to push for a two-team solution rather than just having one team in one stadium. And now they're handing Kroenke the power to block the second team from coming to LA at all? Or bleed them dry at the very least?
No, of course not. These things are pure shakedowns. It's been shown pretty conclusively that money people with limited incomes spend at a sporting event (or at the restaurants around the stadium) is money not spent at the movie theater or at restaurants located elsewhere. It's not like anybody says "I was going light this money on fire but now instead I'll go the ballgame!" And nobody says "I'm still going to Chili's down the street even though I blew the mortgage payment on those Cowboy tickets."
And the vast majority of jobs "created" by sports teams are pretty crummy jobs. Way back when the Pats were going to move to Hartford, I would always joke about the city needing more job opportunities in the lucrative hot dog vending and parking lot attendant industries.
and hereee come the chargers
Jim Trotter @JimTrotter_NFL 17m17 minutes ago
Chargers believe the framework presented to them to join the Rams in LA has doable components & would allow them to move in 2016, per source
Jim Trotter @JimTrotter_NFL 15m15 minutes ago
The Chargers and their attorneys and financial people are reviewing the framework, but feel there could be a deal to be made for 2016.
Jim Trotter @JimTrotter_NFL 12m12 minutes ago
If Chargers are going to move this year, they need to decide before start of the league year, March 9, b/c uncertainty affects free agency.
Jim Trotter @JimTrotter_NFL 17m17 minutes ago
Chargers believe the framework presented to them to join the Rams in LA has doable components & would allow them to move in 2016, per source
Jim Trotter @JimTrotter_NFL 15m15 minutes ago
The Chargers and their attorneys and financial people are reviewing the framework, but feel there could be a deal to be made for 2016.
Jim Trotter @JimTrotter_NFL 12m12 minutes ago
If Chargers are going to move this year, they need to decide before start of the league year, March 9, b/c uncertainty affects free agency.
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Alex Flanagan @Alex_Flanagan 58s58 seconds ago
NFL has framework of a stadium deal between the rams/chargers. Chargers vetting it now and barring anything unforeseen, plan on going to LA
NFL has framework of a stadium deal between the rams/chargers. Chargers vetting it now and barring anything unforeseen, plan on going to LA
There was 0% chance of the Chargers not going. Spanos may hate working with Kroenke, but there's no way he would stay in SD, let the Raiders come to LA, and become the #3 team in SoCal.
Random anecdote:
Went on small day fishing trip out of San Diego with my FatherInLaw a few years ago. He's a regular, as were several others, including one huge angry dude with a leather jacket that said 'fuck it and fish'.
Along with his jacket and shaved head he had a neck/head tatoo of a lightening bolt and 'CHARGERS FOREVER'.
So my FIL goes right up and just says 'heheh hey man, what are you gonna do with that thing when the Chargers move to LA? (Chuckle chuckle)'
Guy is clearly pissed. I mean, tensed up physically visibly pissed. But my FIL is literally a salty old sea dog. Not like physically dominating, just, old school and there's a seniority thing I guess with fishing (and surfing) so the guy just sucks it up and says 'I guess I'll get 'rest in peace' written over it, brah'.
So, well, RIP The Chargers of The Whale's Vagina.
Went on small day fishing trip out of San Diego with my FatherInLaw a few years ago. He's a regular, as were several others, including one huge angry dude with a leather jacket that said 'fuck it and fish'.
Along with his jacket and shaved head he had a neck/head tatoo of a lightening bolt and 'CHARGERS FOREVER'.
So my FIL goes right up and just says 'heheh hey man, what are you gonna do with that thing when the Chargers move to LA? (Chuckle chuckle)'
Guy is clearly pissed. I mean, tensed up physically visibly pissed. But my FIL is literally a salty old sea dog. Not like physically dominating, just, old school and there's a seniority thing I guess with fishing (and surfing) so the guy just sucks it up and says 'I guess I'll get 'rest in peace' written over it, brah'.
So, well, RIP The Chargers of The Whale's Vagina.
I agree. Most of the public financed stadium proposals do not take into account opportunity costs. The net economic effect is zero or negative for the taxpayers.
Bosox4283 - Many non NFL sponsored articles and papers are here. Russ Roberts who hosts the EconTalk podcast and unabashed Red Sox fan has also a few podcasts on this topic.
Edit: spelling
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I've seen a lot of articles about gutted St Louis fans, I'd love to see one about non-fans in St Louis who are happy they aren't further wasting money.
TMQ's strategy was to pass legislation making video of any event in a publicly funded stadium public domain.
It's worse than that - most of them aren't even jobs. Many of the concession stands at Gillette are manned by volunteer groups (local schools, parents of the girlscouts, etc) - the organization gets a percentage of the profit. I did a couple of games back atleast about a decade ago for - I wanna say it was a highschool ski team, but I'm not sure - no pay.
Except for the fact that they still have 10 years worth of bonds to pay off with no benefit from them.
At the Redskins game last weekend I bought my son a program from a stand staffed by a Band Booster organization. For the first time ever, I was solicited to make a donation to the band over and above whatever I was buying. I thought that was strange......
I've worked college games like that for a soccer club and the first rule they drum into you is that you cannot solicit additional tips/donations.
We got a fee (very small) that is placed into our account for volunteering (we'd get like $35 for college basketball game--for 5 hours of time, and $70 for football) and we'd be able to put out tip jars and it was simply split among the workers. By no means could we solicit for those jars though--the company contracted to do concessions (Aramark in this case) would get in trouble.
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I did this once -- I "worked" the opening game after the 3rd SuperBowl win. IIRC I hung out with Deathofthebambino for a good chunk of the game, and I peed next to Ozzy. Good times.
With the chargers apparently headed to LA, any chance the Raiders eye San Diego ? They already have a large fan base there.
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The Raiders are hated by every man, woman, and child living south of Orange County.
The large Raider's crowd at Qualcomm are fans from LA and Oakland making their annual trip.
It's equivalent to the Yankees moving to Boston. But it is the NFL, so if the owners could make an extra nickel they would probably do it.
Has no one else seen the reports that Oakland has secured land between San Antonio and Austin? I'm on mobile or I would link, but is it legit or a threat?
I think there's zero chance the Raiders move to San Diego but your comments are wildly exaggerated. I've lived in SoCal for over 15 years, the last four in San Diego. There are tons of Raider fans in San Diego. Definitely the second most popular team. If you just looked at Hispanic men under 40, the gap between the two fan bases isn't huge.
The reason San Diego is even a possibility for the Raiders is based on two things:
-The fact that moving to San Diego would allow the Raiders to keep much of their SoCal fan base
-The fact that Dean Spanos and Marc Davis have different stadium dreams. The Mission Valley stadium that is basically an updated Qualcomm that the Mayor Faulkaner and Co. have been pushing is exactly what Mark Davis wants: accessible by multiple freeways and public transportation, huge parking lot for tailgating, not too large. Spanos wants a San Diego stadium downtown next to Petco. Further, that $300M that the city of San Diego could potentially offer (post San Diego people voting for the Raiders!) also comes very near closing the gap in funding that Davis faces.
-I live in San Diego county, so I would of course be all about it, but it feels like marrying your cousin. I don't really want San Diego fans to be in the weird position of changing their committed hatred of the Raiders and love for the Chargers. I could do without some of the racist tinge to it, but it would be really shitty for a bunch of people here.
-Finally, it would be horrible for the Chargers. They would be the second most popular team in San Diego and the third most popular team in LA.
-The fact that moving to San Diego would allow the Raiders to keep much of their SoCal fan base
-The fact that Dean Spanos and Marc Davis have different stadium dreams. The Mission Valley stadium that is basically an updated Qualcomm that the Mayor Faulkaner and Co. have been pushing is exactly what Mark Davis wants: accessible by multiple freeways and public transportation, huge parking lot for tailgating, not too large. Spanos wants a San Diego stadium downtown next to Petco. Further, that $300M that the city of San Diego could potentially offer (post San Diego people voting for the Raiders!) also comes very near closing the gap in funding that Davis faces.
-I live in San Diego county, so I would of course be all about it, but it feels like marrying your cousin. I don't really want San Diego fans to be in the weird position of changing their committed hatred of the Raiders and love for the Chargers. I could do without some of the racist tinge to it, but it would be really shitty for a bunch of people here.
-Finally, it would be horrible for the Chargers. They would be the second most popular team in San Diego and the third most popular team in LA.
I was watching the NFL network's coverage of the announcements, etc. and before Goodell et. al spoke, they mentioned a bunch of times how the league doesn't want 3 teams in SO CAL (LA & SD combined). I wonder if that's still the case and owners would essentially block the Raiders from moving to SD if the Chargers move or from LA if the Chargers stay
But if the Chargers stay, the Raiders already have permission to go to LA, putting 3 teams in SoCal
That deal was made with the knowledge there's a 99% chance the Chargers take the deal. The Raiders would need separate permission to go to SD after the Chargers are in LA, and they likely wouldn't get it.
since we are speaking in near absolutes, there is less than 1% chance the NFL would reject a viable stadium plan in San Diego if that market was left empty. That lowers to less than .5% chance if the Raiders were taking that viable stadium plan after one could not be gained in Oakland.
I don't think the Raiders are going to San Diego, but it is certainly viable if Spanos decides to play ball with Stan.
I don't think the Raiders are going to San Diego, but it is certainly viable if Spanos decides to play ball with Stan.
The rams have to stick with their current uniforms for at least two years. Apparently it takes 2+ years for the NFL to "approve" uniform changesThey should go back to the royal blue and white.
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2014/8/6/5974615/philadelphia-eagles-kelly-green-uniforms-switch-consideration
Those things are just hideous. The video game/alarm clock numbers are one of the most distractingly terrible features on any uniform in professional sports.
And we still ended up with the colorrush abominations including the color blind test pattern ones.
It was definitely the first helmet logo. One of the players worked as an artist in the offseason, and he painted the horns on the team's leather helmets.
The website and social media accounts were all rebranded today, and the logo was introduced (it's just the St. Louis Rams one with "Los Angeles" replacing "St. Louis").
Website: www.therams.com
Twitter: www.twitter.com/RamsNFL
Facebook: www.facebook.com/Rams/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/rams/
The old @stlouisrams Twitter handle was immediately grabbed by a St. Louis fan, but it looks like the account has been suspended.
And finally, now that it is all official, I present, without further comment, Ram It.
Fred Roggin @FredNBCLA 4h4 hours ago
Reports #Chargers will announce move to LA next week blocking #Raiders return. Raiders then to #San Diego.
Vincent Bonsignore @DailyNewsVinny 4h4 hours ago
Strong indications from leagues sources the extra $100m would be available to #Raiders in a move to SD
Vincent Bonsignore @DailyNewsVinny 4h4 hours ago
#NFL source on owners blocking a #Raiders move to SD: "Doubt it very much"
Reports #Chargers will announce move to LA next week blocking #Raiders return. Raiders then to #San Diego.
Vincent Bonsignore @DailyNewsVinny 4h4 hours ago
Strong indications from leagues sources the extra $100m would be available to #Raiders in a move to SD
Vincent Bonsignore @DailyNewsVinny 4h4 hours ago
#NFL source on owners blocking a #Raiders move to SD: "Doubt it very much"
Soooo, could there be a nickname trade between the San Diego Raiders and Los Angeles Chargers?
Only the Roger Goodell NFL could end up with something like that.
Only the Roger Goodell NFL could end up with something like that.
The Raiders have some exciting young players but just dropping your team for a division rival just because they are the new home town team would be really weird.
The Rams started taking deposits on season tickets over the weekend, with around 8,000 people doing so within the first hour. They announced that the first deposit was taken from Magic Johnson, and they have been putting out some good promo videos marketing the current squad while looking back at the history of the team (from Dickerson to Gurley, the Fearsome Foursome to the current D-Line, etc.). They are definitely looking to renew that connection to the city as quickly as possible.
If the Chargers are coming, they may not want to wait too much longer or they will be playing catch-up all offseason.
If the Chargers are coming, they may not want to wait too much longer or they will be playing catch-up all offseason.