Celtics vs Hawks, Round 1 Discussion

Jimbodandy

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Good one to ponder.

Granite S&T + DG + PP for Collins could work money-wise...IF JC would play the role of "highly motivated" 8th man for a perennial Championship contender then yes...Unfortunately, I'm guessing JC isn't built that way.
The fact that it's a legit question shows how far Collins has fallen.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I thought it was interesting that after the game, Mazzulla placed the blame on himself for the slow pace down the stretch in game 5, saying it was his playcalling that slowed the game down. They made the decision to play with more pace and more freedom last night, and the execution was much better for it. The Celtics are not really built to attack a set defense with choreographed sets, especially when teams are trapping Tatum. I thought it was a nice example of a young coach learning and adjusting on the fly.
I noticed a number of times Joe on the sideline imploring Tatum to go faster when he was bringing up the ball, doing the "traveling" sign with his arms to indicate move faster. Tatum more than once looked over at him, seemed to get it, and picked up the pace. It was great seeing them realize they had to go faster in the end game.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Yeah good point about Tatum's usage rate. That said, between games 1, 2, 5, and 6, he only had 8 total FTA, on 86 shots (50 2 point attempts). That's hard to fathom. In the regular season 8.4 FTA to 11.8 2point attempts = 71.2%. Playoffs 4.8 / 11.3 = 42.5%. Games 1-2-5-6 8/50 = 16.0%.
During the regular season:
Celts 27 FTA/game, Tatum 8.4
Hawks 30 FTA/game, Trae 8.8

During the post season:
Celts 17 FTA/game, Tatum 4.8
Hawks 17 FTA/game, Trae 7.2

It’s just the way this series was called. And Tatum doesn’t snap his head back like he’s JFK puttering around Dealey Plaza.
 

tims4wins

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During the regular season:
Celts 27 FTA/game, Tatum 8.4
Hawks 30 FTA/game, Trae 8.8

During the post season:
Celts 17 FTA/game, Tatum 4.8
Hawks 17 FTA/game, Trae 7.2

It’s just the way this series was called. And Tatum doesn’t snap his head back like he’s JFK puttering around Dealey Plaza.
Tre down 18%, Tatum down 43%. Does not compute.
 

Auger34

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Man am I glad the Celtics "showed us who they are", whatever that means.

Lotta crazy hot takes in the non-game-thread since Tuesday night. I'm sure we're all over that and learned our lessons! :)

To add a bit more commentary, the difference between Smart this game and Smart most of the series was dramatic, especially in the first half. His defensive positioning and communication was spot on, he wasn't sloppy or too casual, he was giving max effort. That was Championship Smart out there for the Celtics last night and we're going to need him to help find where Championship Horford has got to, but between Smaht and both the Jays we had some very consistent high-quality performances all night.

Tatum finished with 30 / 14 / 7 and when I saw that I said "wait, what?". It was such a subtle, workmanlike game by him, rarely spectacular aside from a few dunks. I guess his late game put-back that made him roar in the face of Jackson (?) was about the only time he really called for attention, but he was out there doing his All-NBA thing again.

Now if we can just get Jaylen to clean up some of the "didn't see the help defender and lose the ball while dribbling" stuff, maybe we'll really go places!
This is like starting off a restaurant review poking fun at people for being overly critical about menial things then talking about how great the meal was and everything was basically perfect…except for the fact that the silverware wasn’t on the right side of the plate and that’s tough to get over.

I mean I understand what you’re saying but….come on
 

InstaFace

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This is like starting off a restaurant review poking fun at people for being overly critical about menial things then talking about how great the meal was and everything was basically perfect…except for the fact that the silverware wasn’t on the right side of the plate and that’s tough to get over.

I mean I understand what you’re saying but….come on
Lord, permit us our nitpicks, as we permit those who nitpick against us...

No but seriously, I was responding to someone who took an overall negative view on the game, had a negative characterization or outlook that he took from it. I had a very different view on how that game went overall, and how we're lookin' going forward. The meal was great! It would've taken a lot more than the silverware to ruin it! I'm buzzing around today from that meal, and no negatives I could work to find fault with are dampening my mood about it.

Maybe you're right, maybe the silverware isn't even worth mentioning, it's a distraction and bringing it up makes more of it than it deserves. Maybe there would've had to at least been a baby screaming the whole time to deserve comment. But there's a difference between a negative review that makes a mountain out of a molehill, and a positive review that mentions some trite negatives just in the interest of not being panglossian.

And when I go back to that restaurant on Monday, even if it's a rougher scene and waitstaff have called out and there's a big Cameroonian contingent visiting and they're being rude, I still have every expectation of another wonderful meal regardless.
 

JakeRae

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Between that and going to Grant, I think JM quieted some of the (over-stated) talk about how overmatched he is as a coach. I thought game 5 was more on Tatum and Smart, and overall in the series Joe did a good job experimenting on the fly and coming up with answers.

The Hawks were tougher than expected, because they have talent. Quin got them to play with confidence, and guys like Collins and Hunter really got into it as the series went on.

I feel better now going into the Philly series, because the Cs have felt what tough 4th quarters are like at playoff speed, on both ends. Obviously would have been good to play a more injured Embiid, but bring it on.
Another thing to keep in mind on the first point is that Quin Snyder is a very good coach. He’s not in the Spo/Pop/Kerr tier of elite coaches, but I’d put him in the next tier down. We should expect our rookie head coach to be a bit outmaneuvered by someone like Snyder. Fortunately, aside from the possibility of running into either or both of Kerr or Spo, I don’t think we face the same risks going forward. Doc has things he’s very good at, but he’s not someone who scares me from a tactics/adjustments perspective. Thibs has always felt more like a system coach to me, and his teams have never overperformed in the playoffs.
 

NomarsFool

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I noticed a number of times Joe on the sideline imploring Tatum to go faster when he was bringing up the ball, doing the "traveling" sign with his arms to indicate move faster. Tatum more than once looked over at him, seemed to get it, and picked up the pace. It was great seeing them realize they had to go faster in the end game.
Yes. I definitely noticed it was different. They weren't always running, but they were at least jogging up the court.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yes. I definitely noticed it was different. They weren't always running, but they were at least jogging up the court.
If they aren’t pushing pace what difference does it make if they are walking, jogging or skip to my louin? The difference was in executing the halfcourt set and the adjustment with Smart at the FT line was a large part of it….along with some made 3’s. Shotmaking solves a lot of ills.
 

NomarsFool

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A couple extra seconds of available shot clock which can be nice when running a set. But yes obviously making shots solves many ills.
I think it also shows an acknowledgement of the situation. Not to get too psychoanalyzy here, but I feel like their repeated issues of literally walking up the court just plays into the idea that all that they need to do is run out the clock, they don't need to make shots or even play basketball, and that has contributed, IMO, to some of the blown leads. It just conveys a different sense of urgency to at least jog up the court and I think that can impact how one plays the game.
 

Imbricus

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I'm trying to find words to describe how fast that hang-up would happen.
Ha, obviously Atlanta would slam the phone down on Pritchard for Okongwu, but I was kind of curious how untouchable Atlanta sees Okongwu as. Like, on the Celtics, only a few guys (Tatum, probably now Brown) are really untouchable. If we offered Pritchard, Grant Williams and ... draft pick? Does that get a conversation going? Or is there no way they'd move Okongwu, as he's young and promising, at least not for what we'd realistically want to pay?

Oh well, maybe we're going to have to root around in the Chris Boucher bin ...
 

lovegtm

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Ha, obviously Atlanta would slam the phone down on Pritchard for Okongwu, but I was kind of curious how untouchable Atlanta sees Okongwu as. Like, on the Celtics, only a few guys (Tatum, probably now Brown) are really untouchable. If we offered Pritchard, Grant Williams and ... draft pick? Does that get a conversation going? Or is there no way they'd move Okongwu, as he's young and promising, at least not for what we'd realistically want to pay?

Oh well, maybe we're going to have to root around in the Chris Boucher bin ...
I mean, they'd for sure listen to calls on Okongwu, but he was the #6 overall pick, and looks good at times. You'd need to offer a strong rotation player, or multiple late 1sts, and neither of those things is happening.
 

benhogan

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Ha, obviously Atlanta would slam the phone down on Pritchard for Okongwu, but I was kind of curious how untouchable Atlanta sees Okongwu as. Like, on the Celtics, only a few guys (Tatum, probably now Brown) are really untouchable. If we offered Pritchard, Grant Williams and ... draft pick? Does that get a conversation going? Or is there no way they'd move Okongwu, as he's young and promising, at least not for what we'd realistically want to pay?

Oh well, maybe we're going to have to root around in the Chris Boucher bin ...
Trade values are real tricky to access. The Celtics/Brad seem to be opportunistic in how they acquire players. Horford, White, Brogdon were all attained due to those other teams going in a different direction/development stage.

Okongwu would be a great get and is the type of player they should be hunting for in the offseason, a TimeLord backup. I suspect Boston will try to go after that type of player from a team that disappointed (Bulls, Raptors, Memphis, Nets). Or a tanker that has brought in a new GM/Head Coach that isn't beholden to the previous roster.

So my BIGs shortlist/kick the tires this summer would be:
Gafford, Claxton, Okongwu, Beef Stew, Boucher, Precious, WCSJr, Nick Richards, Poeltl, Hartenstein (it would take assets to go get those guys so Brad/Zarren will have to be opportunistic & see what shakes free post-2023 DRAFT)

We have Kornet & Muscala coming back next season. Blake was decent value on vet min.
BUT as we all know Al is older and TL is fragile
 

HomeRunBaker

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I mean, they'd for sure listen to calls on Okongwu, but he was the #6 overall pick, and looks good at times. You'd need to offer a strong rotation player, or multiple late 1sts, and neither of those things is happening.
He’s an expiring contract and a UFA next summer so you’ve got a couple things in play here. Either Atlanta wants to write him a huge check, and he’s going to get paid a huge check next summer, or they will look to get some kind of return at $.50 on the dollar.

I really like the young player but adding a new guy to this team, who is young and looking to get paid, and offering him limited minutes…..can turn into a bad situation. Grant had buyin with Tatum, Jaylen and Smart entering this year….that wouldn’t be the case with a new guy and he’d only be here one year.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Thanks, that's all fair. Although then I watch the Heat and Butler is up to 9.6 FTA vs. 8.7 in the regular season. I guess he's his own rule.
Without looking it up, I'm going to guess a lot more fouls were called in the MIA/MIL series than the BOS/ATL series.

I mean in order for an offensive player to get fouled, a defender has to be at least close to him. Did you see how many times JB, JT, MS, and DW (among others) basically had a free lane to the basket.
 

lars10

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Without looking it up, I'm going to guess a lot more fouls were called in the MIA/MIL series than the BOS/ATL series.

I mean in order for an offensive player to get fouled, a defender has to be at least close to him. Did you see how many times JB, JT, MS, and DW (among others) basically had a free lane to the basket.
I feel like I can remember just as many where there was contact that wasn’t called.