Celtics vs 76ers, Round 2 Discussion

[Auger34]

His body language will always suck, and though it bothers me in the moment, that is just who he is. What I see from how the team likes his kid, embraces him it may not be that important. Now if he carried himself like Jimy Butler or Curyy (two different but inspirational stars) it may make the Cs a bit better.

A bigger concern is him figuring out when to exert himself and dominate the ball and when not to. It is possible, since this team can score his effort on D may be more important. I worry if he isn't scoring he doesn't just accept he can do his part to win on the boards and on D.

I don’t think that the team loves it but they accept it.

I live in Tampa and when the Raptors were playing here, because of COVID restrictions in Canada, Austin Ainge played golf at the course that I belong to. He played with one of the pros (from Maine) and another member (from Mass). I wasn’t there but apparently Ainge said that the organization was really trying to hammer home to Tatum the importance of hustling to get back on defense and improving his body language. He said that it was ongoing and Tatum wasn’t taking to it as much as they would have liked

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I guess what I'm saying is, if he can change, and I can change... then everyone can change!

Well everyone except for George Karl, he's never going to change.

 

[bakahump]

Could it be some 3d chess?
Hear me out.
If they start off playing very "non physical" defense and slowly ramp it up.....might more of it get allowed as the series wears on? That would seem to benefit the celts by interrupting the Embiid, Harden Foul line offense.
Certainly seemed like Harden was pretty perturbed that he was being looked at sideways in game 2 after not even being looked at in game one, and the refs let them play. Maybe tonight the celts Bump a little more and Harden is apoplectic.
Maybe game 4 they ramp it up a bit more?

I can certainly talk myself out of this. That they should have hammered them in game 1 and eased up slightly in subsequent games until the refs "let em play". (But that coulda led to a 2-0 sixers series lead.)
Or....No...game to game "foul consistency" doesn't matter as the ref groups are constantly changing. So what they allowed in game one might be a foul, what they didnt allow in game 2 in game 3 would be ok etc etc.

IDK probably over thinking it. In Game one they came out flat....in game two they were more physical without stupid fouls.

 

[ehaz]

I bet Embiid has something of a statement game tonight (well, statement first 2.5 quarters). It won't matter because I smell a big Al breakout tonight. He'll feed off Philly hate.

 

[reggiecleveland]

I don’t think that the team loves it but they accept it.

I live in Tampa and when the Raptors were playing here, because of COVID restrictions in Canada, Austin Ainge played golf at the course that I belong to. He played with one of the pros (from Maine) and another member (from Mass). I wasn’t there but apparently Ainge said that the organization was really trying to hammer home to Tatum the importance of hustling to get back on defense and improving his body language. He said that it was ongoing and Tatum wasn’t taking to it as much as they would have liked

I thought Ime had Tatum's attention about this stuff more than Brad or Joe. But perhaps (crosses fingers) Joe got don't op of things and will reside them to the banner.

 

[bellowthecat]

Yeah, felt like there was a whole month last year where Tatum had finally chilled on the whining-to-the-ref-every-drive thing. But it returned in the playoffs and hasn't quit since. If he could learn to just pick his spots he'd probably get more calls and fewer bogus techs.

 

[NomarsFool]

I bet Embiid has something of a statement game tonight (well, statement first 2.5 quarters). It won't matter because I smell a big Al breakout tonight. He'll feed off Philly hate.

I feel like Al has been slumping from 3 (even before game 2). Hopefully that gets sorted out soon because we really need his outside shot against Philly.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Tonight felt like an "outlast" game from last year's playoffs.

Philly played a very good defensive game for most of the game. Embiid was very effective guarding the rim for a lot of the game (4 blocks).

But by quarter 3, the Celtics had adjusted to Embiid and Brown and Tatum were hitting some crazy drives over him. By the end of Q3, he was gassed, and to a lesser extent, the Sixers team.

But Philly still played tough in the 4th, and came damned close to winning.

Jayson (27-10-5) finally buried them with a couple of difficult jumpers (a contested midrange and a three where he got himself open with a great move) inside 2:00. If not for those Philly might have pulled this one out.

Jaylen got off to a very slow start but got most of his 23 in the third quarter, then missed a lot of the 4th with 5 fouls.

The Celtics defense was generally very good in this one, while their offense strugled mightily at times.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Really good and encouraging game 3. Won a fairly tight game on the road, didn't get thrown off their game by officating, Tatum closed great, Brown had a nice stretch when Tatum was struggling/dinged up. And they did it without shooting all that well, only 35% from 3.

 

[DGreenwood]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hTzs3II9dw&ab_channel=NBA

 

[Cellar-Door]

oh man, forgot Sunday was a day game. makes getting the win when Embiid plays 39 minutes even better

 

[Auger34]

It seems like the Harden Game 1 was completely due to extra rest. He has been absolutely awful the last two games

 

[Cellar-Door]

It seems like the Harden Game 1 was completely due to extra rest. He has been absolutely awful the last two games

Also, a couple other things...
1. Celtics were too focused on not fouling
2. Matchups, game 1 was mostly Smart (who was struggling) and White (too small, Harden bodies him) Switched to the Bigger, stronger longer Brown and his angle got cut down.
3. Strategy, they started picking him up 3/4 or half court, no easy catches, make him work for every inch.
4. Switch the PnR less when it's going to put Al on him, let Jaylen or Smart fight through and stay on him

 

[Auger34]

Also, a couple other things...
1. Celtics were too focused on not fouling
2. Matchups, game 1 was mostly Smart (who was struggling) and White (too small, Harden bodies him) Switched to the Bigger, stronger longer Brown and his angle got cut down.
3. Strategy, they started picking him up 3/4 or half court, no easy catches, make him work for every inch.
4. Switch the PnR less when it's going to put Al on him, let Jaylen or Smart fight through and stay on him

‘100% on 1, 3 and 4.

On 2, from my recollection, most of his points were scored on Horford and Brogdon. There was definitely a concerted effort by Harden to get one of those two on him

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I did not get drunk Monday.

I got drunk Wednesday.

I got drunk tonight.

Monday is gonna suck.

Hard to watch as closely at the bar, but the refs sucked ass. No matter, fuck you Scott Foster, hope your bookie breaks your legs.

 

[bigq]

I couldn't tell what happened to Rob Williams' arm. He came out with around 8 minutes left in the 4th and I think his arm was getting taped and he did not come back in. Hope he is okay.

 

[Just a bit outside]

I couldn't tell what happened to Rob Williams' arm. He came out with around 8 minutes left in the 4th and I think his arm was getting taped and he did not come back in. Hope he is okay.

Reported it is a bruise and he could have come back in if needed.

 

[Helmet Head]

It seems like the Harden Game 1 was completely due to extra rest. He has been absolutely awful the last two games

That has a lot to do with it no doubt. I also think he can’t deal with being second fiddle to Embid. He passed up multiple layups tonight to just dish it out. Very odd dynamic.

When he is the man, I think it’s a totally different mindset

 

[CoffeeNerdness]

Felt like the final three-minute offense was different than usual with Brodgon initiating rather than Tatum. A solid adjustment among many.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

This is who covered Harden in G1. He was cooking Smart from above the break but he had plenty of other victims as well.

 

[reggiecleveland]

Reported it is a bruise and he could have come back in if needed.

I hope he's okay, since he has looked like himself the last two games.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Also, a couple other things...
1. Celtics were too focused on not fouling
2. Matchups, game 1 was mostly Smart (who was struggling) and White (too small, Harden bodies him) Switched to the Bigger, stronger longer Brown and his angle got cut down.
3. Strategy, they started picking him up 3/4 or half court, no easy catches, make him work for every inch.
4. Switch the PnR less when it's going to put Al on him, let Jaylen or Smart fight through and stay on him

#4 in particular was noticeable and effective because both JB and Marcus got hard through those screens compared to the lollygagging in game 1. Fighting through them and not giving Harden a clear path is crucial. Did great on that tonight.

 

[lovegtm]

There's a lot more room for optimism with a young coach than an old one, which is something his critics - myself occasionally among them - probably don't factor in as much.
...

I remember having arguments here 10 years ago (!!) about Spo, at a time when the perception was that he was in over his head and riding LeBron's jockstrap to a coaching rep.

Coaches grow, just like players, and Mazzulla is getting a baptism by fire that he's handled fairly well, so far.

 

[lovegtm]

...
The Celtics defense was generally very good in this one, while their offense strugled mightily at times.

It's definitely more challenging with Embiid there protecting the rim. I thought they were a bit unlucky not to blow it open at various points in the game: they generated tons of high-quality 3s once again, but not as many of them fell. The mid/late 4th got rough for a stretch, but winning games through tough stretches and when shots don't fall is playoff basketball.

 

[lovegtm]

#4 in particular was noticeable and effective because both JB and Marcus got hard through those screens compared to the lollygagging in game 1. Fighting through them and not giving Harden a clear path is crucial. Did great on that tonight.

I often think that one of the biggest parts of playing hard in a playoff series is knowing exactly how you will need to play hard, which you learn as a series goes on. JB and Marcus have now felt exactly what happens to the Sixers offense when you stay connected to Harden and get physical with him. It's easier to focus on a specific task ("stay up in Harden at all times, even at the cost of a few fouls"), than on a general one ("play hard on defense; fight through screens").

You see this type of "play harder, but in very specific ways" adjustment a lot in the playoffs.

 

[joe dokes]

Really good and encouraging game 3. Won a fairly tight game on the road, didn't get thrown off their game by officating, Tatum closed great, Brown had a nice stretch when Tatum was struggling/dinged up. And they did it without shooting all that well, only 35% from 3.

The big number on the 3s is that they took 45 of them. That's been the coach's mantra.

 

[tims4wins]

I thought last night was one of their best / most encouraging playoffs wins over the last few years. While I complained in the game thread about losing focus on offense, they closed it out and clamped down when they needed to. Obviously they still have consistency issues but I think they put their foot down and close this thing out in 5. If that happens I am all in on a title run. If this ends up going 6-7, it’s probably more of the same of what we’ve seen the last couple years.

 

[lovegtm]

I thought last night was one of their best / most encouraging playoffs wins over the last few years. While I complained in the game thread about losing focus on offense, they closed it out and clamped down when they needed to. Obviously they still have consistency issues but I think they put their foot down and close this thing out in 5. If that happens I am all in on a title run. If this ends up going 6-7, it’s probably more of the same of what we’ve seen the last couple years.

This could easily go 6-7, even if the Cs go on to win a title. Harden is in his own head pretty badly, and he might get out of it. Embiid looks better than I expected, although he's still somewhat limited in some ways. Shooting and officiating variance happen too: the Cs were extremely unlucky to lose game 1, unlucky to not be up more earlier in game 3, and lucky to hit a lot of shots at the end of game 3.

NBA playoff series usually end with the better team winning, but there's a reason they are best-of-7, and not 3 or 5.

 

[tims4wins]

This could easily go 6-7, even if the Cs go on to win a title. Harden is in his own head pretty badly, and he might get out of it. Embiid looks better than I expected, although he's still somewhat limited in some ways. Shooting and officiating variance happen too: the Cs were extremely unlucky to lose game 1, unlucky to not be up more earlier in game 3, and lucky to hit a lot of shots at the end of game 3.

NBA playoff series usually end with the better team winning, but there's a reason they are best-of-7, and not 3 or 5.

Right, I guess it more depends how the games specifically go. I haven't seen much from the Sixers though that tell me they can win this series. The Celts have been better for the vast majority of the minutes so far IMO.

 

[lovegtm]

Right, I guess it more depends how the games specifically go. I haven't seen much from the Sixers though that tell me they can win this series. The Celts have been better for the vast majority of the minutes so far IMO.

I agree the Cs have been clearly the better team, and even if they were down 2-1, I wouldn't feel horrible. At the end of the day, however, this series could very easily be 3-0 Cs or 2-1 Sixers with a few different bounces, and there will be many more bounces before this thing is over.

 

[tims4wins]

I agree the Cs have been clearly the better team, and even if they were down 2-1, I wouldn't feel horrible. At the end of the day, however, this series could very easily be 3-0 Cs or 2-1 Sixers with a few different bounces, and there will be many more bounces before this thing is over.

I expect another tough-ish game on Sunday, my hope is it goes the same as last night down the stretch, and then if that happens I expect Gino time on Tuesday

 

[128]

Embiid looks better than I expected, although he's still somewhat limited in some ways.

I didn't expect Joel to lose his shooting touch, but I've been surprised by how well he's defended the rim on what supposedly is a knee injury that requires four to six weeks of recovery time.l

 

[bankshot1]

I agree the Cs have been clearly the better team, and even if they were down 2-1, I wouldn't feel horrible. At the end of the day, however, this series could very easily be 3-0 Cs or 2-1 Sixers with a few different bounces, and there will be many more bounces before this thing is over.

There are a lot of bounces yet to come, and 2-1 Celts is the right #. They did not deserve or play well enough to win G1. Their approach to no Embiid and letting Harden score at will was coaching malpractice. Last night the 76ers got the calls in a really poorly officiated game and still lost by 12 as the Celts dominated them in the 2nd half with crushing team D.

If the Celts can keep the D first/faced paced attack transition game and focus going the 76ers are dead. If they play this way going forward, as I think we all believe they can, IMO they deserve to be favorites for 18.

 

[lovegtm]

There are a lot of bounces yet to come, and 2-1 Celts is the right #. They did not deserve or play well enough to win G1. Their approach to no Embiid and letting Harden score at will was coaching malpractice. Last night the 76ers got the calls in a really poorly officiated game and still lost by 12 as the Celts dominated them in the 2nd half with crushing team D.

If the Celts can keep the D first/faced paced attack transition game and focus going the 76ers are dead. If they play this way going forward, as I think we all believe they can, IMO they deserve to be favorites for 18.

I don't really buy coaching malpractice in g1. They tried doubling Harden a few times (it was the obvious thing to do), but the effort/execution on both the double and rotations behind it was so bad that single-covering him was better.

 

[bankshot1]

I don't really buy coaching malpractice in g1. They tried doubling Harden a few times (it was the obvious thing to do), but the effort/execution on both the double and rotations behind it was so bad that single-covering him was better.

Harden was really the only guy capable of hurting the Celts and they should have hounded him from the go in G1. Run Smart/White/Brog/JB at him all night. And make him pass out and consistently find an answer. Harris, PJ or Maxey wasn't going to win a no-Embiid game. I posted CJM should have approached Harden like BB, take away the one guy who can hurt you and make them find an answer. And that approach was ignored. It was Defense 101 and CJM skipped the class.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Also, a couple other things...
1. Celtics were too focused on not fouling
2. Matchups, game 1 was mostly Smart (who was struggling) and White (too small, Harden bodies him) Switched to the Bigger, stronger longer Brown and his angle got cut down.
3. Strategy, they started picking him up 3/4 or half court, no easy catches, make him work for every inch.
4. Switch the PnR less when it's going to put Al on him, let Jaylen or Smart fight through and stay on him

3 and 4 have worked together nicely to make things harder for him. They pick him up farther out, screen needs to come from farther out, defender has more time and space to fight through, and even allows some opportunities to go under the screen and not switch depending on where it is.

He can still get to the rim sometimes but you’re definitely less worried about him using the daylight of a defender fighting through a screen as an opening to drive. And he’s much easier to recover against than he used to be. Since his top speed is so much lower now, he doesn’t murder you with his elite change of pace quite as much.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Harden was really the only guy capable of hurting the Celts and they should have hounded him from the go in G1. Run Smart/White/Brog/JB at him all night. And make him pass out and consistently find an answer. Harris, PJ or Maxey wasn't going to win a no-Embiid game. I posted CJM should have approached Harden like BB, take away the one guy who can hurt you and make them find an answer. And that approach was ignored. It was Defense 101 and CJM skipped the class.

He's been one of the primary reasons why the Sixers haven't missed a beat in non-Embiid games this year so this is confusing. Without looking I'm going to say that Maxey had maybe ten 30-pt games this year within his 20ppg avg and half of them came when Embiid was out. Disagree that he's not capable of hurting you when he's shown that he's capable of doing so.

It's Game 1 of a 7-game series....both teams in any long series use this game to set the adjustments for the remainder of the series. It's pretty standard.

 

[lovegtm]

Harden was really the only guy capable of hurting the Celts and they should have hounded him from the go in G1. Run Smart/White/Brog/JB at him all night. And make him pass out and consistently find an answer. Harris, PJ or Maxey wasn't going to win a no-Embiid game. I posted CJM should have approached Harden like BB, take away the one guy who can hurt you and make them find an answer. And that approach was ignored. It was Defense 101 and CJM skipped the class.

Go watch game 1 again. Every time they "hounded" Harden, he found the open man and Philly got shootaround 3s.

Mazzulla tried to do exactly what you're saying, and Philly found answers rapidly, every time.

Improved attention to detail and defensive effort plugged that leak after game 1, but it was absolutely not a failed coaching decision at the time.

 

[bankshot1]

He's been one of the primary reasons why the Sixers haven't missed a beat in non-Embiid games this year so this is confusing. Without looking I'm going to say that Maxey had maybe ten 30-pt games this year within his 20ppg avg and half of them came when Embiid was out. Disagree that he's not capable of hurting you when he's shown that he's capable of doing so.

It's Game 1 of a 7-game series....both teams in any long series use this game to set the adjustments for the remainder of the series. It's pretty standard.

Maxey can score 30 just don't let Harden run free to score 45.

I did not understand CJM's G1 approach. I would have pressured Harden all night.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Maxey can score 30 just don't let Harden run free to score 45.

I did not understand CJM's G1 approach. I would have pressured Harden all night.

This approach seems to be results oriented. What have we seen from Harden since his injury that warrants setting a gameplan to stop him? In the Sixers last 3 meaningful non-Embiid games (the final two were deep bench games) this year Maxey scored 27, 29 and 32 while Harden has been primarily a facilitator over the last month of the season. Who expected prime Harden in G1?

 

[bankshot1]

This approach seems to be results oriented. What have we seen from Harden since his injury that warrants setting a gameplan to stop him? In the Sixers last 3 meaningful non-Embiid games (the final two were deep bench games) this year Maxey scored 27, 29 and 32 while Harden has been primarily a facilitator over the last month of the season. Who expected prime Harden in G1?

When Embiid is not available its a reasonable strategic assumption that Philly will try to get HoF Harden off big to make up for the missing Embiid production. Someone's taking his shots. No one expected 45 from him but if he could have been held to a more reasonable 30 and make him find another answer and exhaust him with pressure the Celts win G1 by 10.

We apparently disagree on this, which happens.

 

[bigq]

I didn't expect Joel to lose his shooting touch, but I've been surprised by how well he's defended the rim on what supposedly is a knee injury that requires four to six weeks of recovery time.l

He appeared to be running better last night than he was in Game 2. He seemed to be laboring less and his gait seemed more fluid. He did get gassed though and there were series where he did not bother to get back on defense. Maybe he is getting more comfortable with his brace however his conditioning feels like it will continue to be an issue.

 

[NomarsFool]

Maybe other players do this, too, but it was noticeable that when his team was taking free throws, Embiid was already camped out at the other end of the floor.

 

[bosockboy]

Seems like our strategy was clearly to make Embiid work early. Let him get his points, but attack him on defense even if it results in a few blocks. But have him completely gassed by mid 3rd quarter. They rope-a-doped him.

 

[InstaFace]

I'm not sure how much it worked, though. He had some periods in the 3rd where he did look like he couldn't get up and back on the court, but he was out there in crunch time in the 4th and impacting things.

<sub on at 7:53>
5:02 - 15' fadeaway jumper miss
4:43 - rebound
3:51 - tip layup goes in (after grabbing an O-rebound off a Maxey miss, failing the first put-back, and getting it again for a second try)
3:01 - 17' midrange jumper miss
2:05 - assist on Harden 3-pointer (right before Tatum's answer)
0:56 - rebound
0:32 - driving layup made

A bunch of our drives were clearly affected by not wanting to challenge him at the rim, too. Part of that may have been the kind of whistle he was getting, but he was also pretty effective in the paint all game, I thought.

I'd have to rewatch it to see if he just failed to get to the perimeter to cover people - I do remember one fail that left Horford wide open for a 3, maybe there were others. But it's not like he was rendered ineffective for the rest of the game. He came out, got a breather, and went back to work. Not unlike a bunch of our guys, who get tired too.

 

[bigq]

I'm not sure how much it worked, though. He had some periods in the 3rd where he did look like he couldn't get up and back on the court, but he was out there in crunch time in the 4th and impacting things.

<sub on at 7:53>
5:02 - 15' fadeaway jumper miss
4:43 - rebound
3:51 - tip layup goes in (after grabbing an O-rebound off a Maxey miss, failing the first put-back, and getting it again for a second try)
3:01 - 17' midrange jumper miss
2:05 - assist on Harden 3-pointer (right before Tatum's answer)
0:56 - rebound
0:32 - driving layup made

A bunch of our drives were clearly affected by not wanting to challenge him at the rim, too. Part of that may have been the kind of whistle he was getting, but he was also pretty effective in the paint all game, I thought.

I'd have to rewatch it to see if he just failed to get to the perimeter to cover people - I do remember one fail that left Horford wide open for a 3, maybe there were others. But it's not like he was rendered ineffective for the rest of the game. He came out, got a breather, and went back to work. Not unlike a bunch of our guys, who get tired too.

I think it worked reasonably well. He was far from invisible and had 4 points on 2-5 shooting, 4 boards and 1 assist in the closing ~8 minutes. Outside of rebounding that is fairly pedestrian on a per 36 basis. In crunch time during a home game where Harris, Maxey and Harden were struggling the 76ers needed more from Embiid and he couldn't give it. It's not his fault. The guy is a beast but he is coming back from an injury and trying play through it including working himself back into game shape. I hope the Celtics continue to run him down particularly in the 2nd half because he is limited and they should take advantage of that.

 

[Euclis20]

Did Embiid play the entire 3rd quarter? That seems incredibly stupid for a player who in the best of times has struggled with conditioning. He isn't Lebron or Durant who can occasionally take the extra minutes and still be effective in the 4th quarter. He has consistently worn down late in playoff games, keeping him fresh for the 4th quarter had to be a priority.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Did Embiid play the entire 3rd quarter? That seems incredibly stupid for a player who in the best of times has struggled with conditioning. He isn't Lebron or Durant who can occasionally take the extra minutes and still be effective in the 4th quarter. He has consistently worn down late in playoff games, keeping him fresh for the 4th quarter had to be a priority.

gave him 4+ minutes at the start of the 4th. Probably wanted to give him a minute or two in the 3rd (maybe the last 1:30?) but they couldn't hold the deficit to something manageable.

 

[lovegtm]

gave him 4+ minutes at the start of the 4th. Probably wanted to give him a minute or two in the 3rd (maybe the last 1:30?) but they couldn't hold the deficit to something manageable.

In contrast, although I know criticizing Budenholzer is all the rage, I thought that over the years he did a good job of sticking to what their analysis obviously told them about Giannis' minutes and effectiveness.

 

[DGreenwood]

Anyone else see this? It caught me by surprise. I don't like the way he calls a game either but it has worked out in the Celtics favor this year.

View: https://twitter.com/HoopsGraphic/status/1654545871902769152

Scott Foster is officiating tonight's Celtics vs. Sixers game. The Celtics are 13-0 in games Scott Foster officiated. The Sixers are 1-9 in games Scott Foster officiated