Celtics 'Vigilant' on Anthony Davis

RedOctober3829

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Woj with an Anthony Davis story that mentions Boston is still trying to trade for him.

"Davis remains an obsession of several NBA teams full of the necessary trade assets to unfasten him from New Orleans, should the Pelicans ever consider a rebuild --- or should Davis ever request a trade. Boston has remained vigilant on the possibility of acquiring Davis, and Davis knows it. However, the Pelicans have no intention of trading an all-world talent under contract through 2021, no matter the return."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21806622/anthony-davis-nba-great-big-trade-obsession-adrian-wojnarowski
 

lovegtm

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Woj with an Anthony Davis story that mentions Boston is still trying to trade for him.

"Davis remains an obsession of several NBA teams full of the necessary trade assets to unfasten him from New Orleans, should the Pelicans ever consider a rebuild --- or should Davis ever request a trade. Boston has remained vigilant on the possibility of acquiring Davis, and Davis knows it. However, the Pelicans have no intention of trading an all-world talent under contract through 2021, no matter the return."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/21806622/anthony-davis-nba-great-big-trade-obsession-adrian-wojnarowski
From the article:
"You look at the Warriors, Cleveland, Boston," he said. "They lose Gordon [Hayward], they're still playing well. KD-Steph-Draymond-Klay. They play so well with each other. They move the basketball. They don't care who scores. Steph and Draymond are out, and they still won. KD is out. They still win.

"That's the way the league is now. I don't see anyone winning without three or four All-Stars. ... I was in the [MVP] conversation in my third year, and we didn't win. We went to the playoffs, got swept, and I dropped out of all that so fast. It's about winning. You can have all the numbers in the world, but you better win. That's what it is. This whole league, everything is about winning. Every award. Everything. It's all about winning."


This sounds a lot like a guy who is going to request a trade soon if he doesn't see a path for the Pelicans. And if NBA history is any guide, every superstar is untouchable--until the trade request comes.
 

PedroKsBambino

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He is going to have to basically go into Operation Shutdown for the Pelicans to really think about trading him, unfortunately.
 

Imbricus

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The Davis trade rumors are a little scary to me. The Pelicans would want a boatload of young assets/draft picks. No way I trade Tatum. Brown, maybe, but reluctantly. Then I'd do the Laker/Kings pick and a late first rounder. But I don't think that comes close to getting it done. Davis looks like a season-ending injury waiting to happen. Half the highlight reels of Pelican games show him limping off to the locker room with something or other.
 

finnVT

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The memphis pick is starting to look like a legit asset, for what that's worth.
 

the moops

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Just for reference
2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The Davis trade rumors are a little scary to me. The Pelicans would want a boatload of young assets/draft picks. No way I trade Tatum. Brown, maybe, but reluctantly. Then I'd do the Laker/Kings pick and a late first rounder. But I don't think that comes close to getting it done. Davis looks like a season-ending injury waiting to happen. Half the highlight reels of Pelican games show him limping off to the locker room with something or other.
He really seems like Ainge's white whale. If that is the case, your worst fears in terms of what the C's would give up are likely to be realized.

As for Davis' ability to stay healthy, he does seem to get hurt a fair bit but if the Celtics are willing to bet the farm on him, they must think its just bad luck versus a tendency.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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By the time Davis may actually be on the block, we'll have a much better sense of the ceiling of the Horford/Irving/Hayward/Tatum/Brown core when fully healthy, not to mention the lotto rookie (a big, ideally) added either this spring or next. Young guys might plateau, Davis might suffer an even worse injury than he has to this point, and/or the C's could make the Finals as is with the Memphis pick trending towards high lotto, and so on. Little would surprise me.
 

lovegtm

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By the time Davis may actually be on the block, we'll have a much better sense of the ceiling of the Horford/Irving/Hayward/Tatum/Brown core when fully healthy, not to mention the lotto rookie (a big, ideally) added either this spring or next. Young guys might plateau, Davis might suffer an even worse injury than he has to this point, and/or the C's could make the Finals as is with the Memphis pick trending towards high lotto, and so on. Little would surprise me.
Yeah, I'm as scared as Imbricus about AD's injury potential, and I like Jaylen a lot, but the Celtics will have a ton more information by the time they need to make a decision. Even the value of the Memphis pick will be clearer.

Regarding Operation Shutdown: the Cavs were clearly worried that Kyrie would do some version of this. Even if you don't think your guy will just refuse to play, the difference between a fully engaged NBA star and one going through the motions is drastic.

Non-rhetorical question, since I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure examples exist: who are stars who asked for trades and didn't get them?
 

bowiac

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Pelicans seem a year early to really consider trading Davis, and realistically two years early. I'm sure I'm missing someone, but can't think of a superstar in a comparable situation (team control for 3.5 years) being dealt.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Pelicans seem a year early to really consider trading Davis, and realistically two years early. I'm sure I'm missing someone, but can't think of a superstar in a comparable situation (team control for 3.5 years) being dealt.
Difficult to impossible to see this happening this year, just from a salary perspective.

From NO perspective, you basically need Tatum and most if not all of the Celtics future draft assets. Or you need Kyrie plus all of that.

I think the Celtics have probably reached a point where Davis is unrealistic, now or ever.
 

joe dokes

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Non-rhetorical question, since I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure examples exist: who are stars who asked for trades and didn't get them?
I didn't keep up with *all* the drama, but it seemed like Carmelo Anthony had to ask several times before it finally happened.
 

Montana Fan

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Pelicans seem a year early to really consider trading Davis, and realistically two years early. I'm sure I'm missing someone, but can't think of a superstar in a comparable situation (team control for 3.5 years) being dealt.
How soon they forget.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Non-rhetorical question, since I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm sure examples exist: who are stars who asked for trades and didn't get them?
Hakeem Olajuwon is perhaps best comp in terms of talent and ask---they flat-out refused to trade him around 1992 and it ended up working out for him. They won 42 games that year, but won back to back titles two years later.

Here's one of many articles on it http://articles.latimes.com/1992-03-31/sports/sp-231_1_hakeem-olajuwon

Pretty sure Barkley had a similar request that wasn't met, though he was later traded in a different timeframe.

Those cases, and Davis, are even trickier than trading Kyrie because they are all the face of the franchise. It's tough to deal those guys, and if you do you have to be sure you get better by doing so. For me, unless Davis makes clear he must be dealt they just aren't going to do it for another year or two, if ever.
 

BigSoxFan

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I'm excited for the

Anthony Davis and E'twaun Moore for Al Horford, Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier and 2018 # 5 LAL pick rumors
According to trade checker, this works:

Brown
Morris
Smart
Baynes
Yabusele
Lakers/Kings pick
Grizzlies pick
Clippers pick

Lineup:

Horford
Davis
Tatum
Hayward
Kyrie

Bench:

Rozier
Semi
Theis

Ok, I need a cold shower.
 

lovegtm

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Hakeem Olajuwon is perhaps best comp in terms of talent and ask---they flat-out refused to trade him around 1992 and it ended up working out for him. They won 42 games that year, but won back to back titles two years later.

Here's one of many articles on it http://articles.latimes.com/1992-03-31/sports/sp-231_1_hakeem-olajuwon

Pretty sure Barkley had a similar request that wasn't met, though he was later traded in a different timeframe.

Those cases, and Davis, are even trickier than trading Kyrie because they are all the face of the franchise. It's tough to deal those guys, and if you do you have to be sure you get better by doing so. For me, unless Davis makes clear he must be dealt they just aren't going to do it for another year or two, if ever.
Yeah, Hakeem and Barkley are good comps, thanks for that. Lowers the odds more than I had thought.
 

Ed Hillel

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Ok, time to play out some fantasies, this one a starting lineup of Kyrie/Hayward/Tatum/Horford/Davis.

Is there any way we can make Davis happen with a combination of Brown/Theis/LakerSac/Memphis picks? Would that be enough put together? If so, they can throw in Baynes, Morris, and Nader and get very close, if not there, to salary match. It would definitely hurt their bench for this season, but they’d have a core starting lineup of superstars moving forward that could compete with anybody. They could fill out the bench next season and rule the East.

The other question is how long they can keep that core together salary-wise, but I think they can just barely swing it. I’m not sure how much of a bench they could put together moving forward, though, assuming they don’t want to be paying luxury tax. I personally want to see Brown traded as part of a deal for a legit superstar, if they can make it happen. I see him getting overvalued in free agency in a few years and the Celtics either losing him for nothing or being forced to overpay him.
 

BigSoxFan

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Ok, time to play out some fantasies, this one a starting lineup of Kyrie/Hayward/Tatum/Horford/Davis.

Is there any way we can make Davis happen with a combination of Brown/Theis/LakerSac/Memphis picks? Would that be enough put together? If so, they can throw in Baynes, Morris, and Nader and get very close, if not there, to salary match. It would definitely hurt their bench for this season, but they’d have a core starting lineup of superstars moving forward that could compete with anybody. They could fill out the bench next season and rule the East.

The other question is how long they can keep that core together salary-wise, but I think they can just barely swing it. I’m not sure how much of a bench they could put together moving forward, though, assuming they don’t want to be paying luxury tax. I personally want to see Brown traded as part of a deal for a legit superstar, if they can make it happen. I see him getting overvalued in free agency in a few years and the Celtics either losing him for nothing or being forced to overpay him.
If the Lakers pick conveys this year, I think Danny will certainly try and take another shot at AD. Brown, 2018 top 5 pick, and Memphis + salary filler is probably as good as New Orleans can do. Really would like New Orleans to miss the playoffs again.

If ownership allows a hypothetical trade for AD, they would almost certainly have to be willing to pay some luxury tax.
 

BigSoxFan

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Some luxury tax? Is that like being a little pregnant ?
Last 2 years of Horford’s contract could be moved pretty easily but, yes, those 5 would add up to $112M or so next year, which means there would have to be a large LT bill to competently fill out the roster.
 

The Mort Report

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And to the people worried about the bench, “deep” teams get destroyed in the playoffs when benches shorten. It’s all about how your top 3-5 match with theirs. The best teams now usually have a few max level players with 2-3 vets on minimum deals chasing rings, not money
 

vicirus

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The following works in the trade machine:

Davis, Tony Allen
For
Baynes, Brown, Morris, Nader, Larkin, Yabu

Leaves the bench short for the regular season, but the Hayward injury exception would still be available and veteran buy-outs could fill in the remainder. NO would want the Laker/Sacramento pick along with Memphis’ and likely another 1-2 future picks. The Memphis pick is really starting to become a great asset, but NO would probably want more certainty on the picks before making a trade.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Stupider things have happened, but I really doubt that NO accepts any deal that doesn't include Tatum or Kyrie. I suppose if Davis makes it clear he wants out (a massive "if" considering his financial incentive to stay) and Philly stays out of the bidding because of Embiid, then Jaylen + plus the kitchen sink could be the best deal out there, depending on how NO feels about Ingram. That said, it's a pipe dream, even if it's a fun one to think about.
 
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nighthob

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Yeah, Davis isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. The only way to get him would be to overwhelm the Pelicans. As in LA offering up Ingram, Kuzma, and salary filler. Philly ponying up Simmons, Covington and picks, or Boston doing Tatum, Brown, and picks. The Lakers probably should do that as it would make signing George a formality.
 

Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat

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Yeah, Davis isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. The only way to get him would be to overwhelm the Pelicans. As in LA offering up Ingram, Kuzma, and salary filler. Philly ponying up Simmons, Covington and picks, or Boston doing Tatum, Brown, and picks. The Lakers probably should do that as it would make signing George a formality.
You're equating Tatum, Brown, and picks with Ingram, Kuzma, and salary filler?
 

snowmanny

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At some point Davis may decide to force his way out of town. At that point you don't need to make a fair offer, just the best offer.
 

nighthob

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You're equating Tatum, Brown, and picks with Ingram, Kuzma, and salary filler?
No, I’m saying that New Orleans is two years away from needing to trade Davis and any team that wants him now is going to have to overwhelm the Pelicans. About the best the Lakers can do at this point is Ingram, Kuzma, Clarkson, and Deng. And to be brutally frank it probably isn’t enough.
 

moondog80

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I'd happily give up Tatum and would be willing to consider more for Davis.
 

bosox79

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I think Jaylen Brown went from one of the most overrated players on this board last season to one of the most underrated players on this board this season. He's more valuable than anyone on the Lakers imo. Kuzma can definitely score but has limited play making abilities, is brutal on defense and has below average length for an NBA player with his height.

Ingram may have a case, as he is a year younger than Brown, has great length and tons of offensive potential. He is just as bad a FT shooter as Jaylen Brown though, a career .637 vs a career .631. People question Jaylen Brown and his range, but for his NBA career, he's 107/287 .373 from down town. This year, he's at 61/152 .401. At what sample size are people comfortable calling Jaylen Brown a decent 3 point shooter? For Brandon Ingram's career, he's 72/237 .304. He's up to .340 this year but is also taking far less attempts than he was last year. Hes 17/50 in his 31 games. Long story short, Jaylen Brown .401 on 4.5 3PA/G, Ingram .340 on 1.6. This doesn't even consider their defense, where the edge definitely goes to Jaylen.

It's odd because I see people on here getting excited about guys like Ingram and Kuzma but there is very little excitement on Jaylen Brown. He has shown remarkable improvement from his rookie season, is still just 21 years old, and is as athletic as anyone else in the NBA. I know Jayson Tatum is the reason for most of that though.

edit: The one advantage Ingram has over Brown to date is passing.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think Ingram is less physically mature than Brown, which limits him on the court. I think Brown is going to be very good, but that Ingram has the higher ceiling.
 

ifmanis5

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Would like to see the Celtics at full force with Hayward before they start tearing it apart again. Davis is already with Boogie, one more star and they're just as stacked as anyone, in theory.
 

bosox79

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Would like to see the Celtics at full force with Hayward before they start tearing it apart again. Davis is already with Boogie, one more star and they're just as stacked as anyone, in theory.
With no assets to acquire said star. I don't think they even need a star, just a competent SF outside of Darius Miller. The team is Cousins, Davis and a bunch of guards. No wings whatsoever.
 

Captaincoop

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Yeah, Davis isn’t going anywhere anytime soon. The only way to get him would be to overwhelm the Pelicans. As in LA offering up Ingram, Kuzma, and salary filler. Philly ponying up Simmons, Covington and picks, or Boston doing Tatum, Brown, and picks. The Lakers probably should do that as it would make signing George a formality.
Also, it's a rule that every great NBA big man has to end up going to the Lakers for 12 cents on the dollar at some point in their career.
 

NoXInNixon

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If the Celtics get this year's Lakers pick this year, that pick plus the Memphis pick plus Brown. Is that enough for NO to say yes?

Starting 5:

AD
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
Kyrie

Holy Shit.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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If the Celtics get this year's Lakers pick this year, that pick plus the Memphis pick plus Brown. Is that enough for NO to say yes?

Starting 5:

AD
Horford
Tatum
Hayward
Kyrie

Holy Shit.
No...salaries aren't going to be close to working. The C's are going to have to part with more veterans to make it happen.
 

Manzivino

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There's a lot of mental gymnastics I can go through to make hypothetical salary matches for a Davis trade but they're all so convoluted and unlikely that it's not worth the effort. As it stands they either need to include one of Horford/Kyrie/Hayward or include half the roster.
 

scottyno

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Theoretically they could sign and trade Smart in the offseason to offset Davis salary right? Of course that requires the Pels to want Smart on a fairly high salary which seems unlikely when they're paying Holiday 25m+ for 3-4 more years.
 

ssspence

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While I recognize a trade for Davis remains a long shot — especially before the deadline — how about this:

Dallas receives: Horford

NOP receives: Jaylen Brown, Noel, 2018 Lakers Pick from Cs, Top 6 protected 2018 Mavs Pick (with additional future protections), 2019 Clippers from Cs

Celtics receive: Davis, McRoberts

Mavs can take on Horford by renouncing dead cap holds.

This deal is also easily adjusted to be an off-season move, which is probably more likely.
 

the moops

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Why is DAL doing this? They are a rebuilding team that does not need/want Horford, nevermind at the expense of a lottery pick. Noel is UFA this summer anyway.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I don't think it's a good idea to trade the first marquee free agent your team signed in the salary cap era (Horford).
 

DrewDawg

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Horford is the key to almost everything. He's not getting traded in-season. Ever.
 

ssspence

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For Anthony Davis? Why? Do You actually buy that if NOP would do this deal, Ainge would say: “I’m never trading Horford in-season. Ever”.

Ainge cares about championships. We’re not winning one this season, in all likelihood. Would our changes increase this season with Davis? Yes. Would our changes increase long term? Yes.

@Eddie Jurak

Many would say the same about trading a guy who just finished 5th in the MVP voting. And yet Ainge did just weeks later — for a better player. Same deal here, and the Cs have since signed another max player in Hayward.
 
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