How is "absolutely no feel" being quantified here?But uh, also this is a knock on Brown, right? I mean, how far can you go in this league with absolutely no feel for the game?
How is "absolutely no feel" being quantified here?But uh, also this is a knock on Brown, right? I mean, how far can you go in this league with absolutely no feel for the game?
Not sure. Big questions are shot and handle, which are obviously significanf. Everything else is a plus. So maybe half feel, half...numb?How is "absolutely no feel" being quantified here?
Pure eye test here. I know I'm the stats guy, but I'm allowed to have uninformed "I don't like this guy" opinions too, right?How is "absolutely no feel" being quantified here?
Apparently it's a sprain. Not sure how severe yet, but wouldn't be surprised if they hold him out of the rest of summer league.Sixers coach on radio:
"I didn't think it looked too bad."
"Here's a replay."
"Oh, okay...that looked, uh...painful."
Yeah, to build off of this I think Tatum is near NBA ready on offense, but it's going to take Jaylen at least another year to refine his offensive game. Until then, look to him to defend and play hard.Yeah, the thing about Brown is that, while he might be tantalizing in respect to his stardom, you know you're at least getting a high-energy possibly elite defender and more-than-capable rebounder who can get to the line and sink his free throws. He's going to be at least good and he's going to have his all-world moments on offense to boot.
I agree with this. When I watch him, he seems to either 1) use his incredible ahtleticism to make a basket, 2) move the ball immediately to an open or semi-open temmate, or 3) force the ball and turn it over or make some ridiculous shot.Pure eye test here. I know I'm the stats guy, but I'm allowed to have uninformed "I don't like this guy" opinions too, right?
But substantively, his love of going straight to the hoop with seemingly no plan is what I was getting at here. I think this is a big part of why he turns the ball over a lot. It's not that he has poor handle, it's that he doesn't look to pass the ball just about ever, and just tries to blow past guys rather than using any kind of deception to open a lane. He has great straight line speed, but that's not enough.
That dude's mom is gonna drive him harder than Brad...I almost feel bad for him....I haven't been able to watch these summer games live, but I've been watching the highlight reels for each of the lottery picks after every game. Damn, Tatum looks good. Yeah, it's only summer league, but this is what you want him to be doing, right? Playing like he's THE star of the league. He already has two buzzer beaters. He's up for the challenge.
Oh, and I love how his mom's probably going to be at every Celtics game
That's not what I said, though. Brown has a ways to go, will never have the offensive skills of Tatum, but it is premature to declare him a lost cause.But uh, also this is a knock on Brown, right? I mean, how far can you go in this league with absolutely no feel for the game?
I believe you get an assist for a player going to the free throw line after a pass.I thought I heard that comment, made right after showing him hit a 3
I wonder if Ray's mom is going to show up for the 10th anniversary reunionOh, and I love how his mom's probably going to be at every Celtics game
Jaylen looks to me that he's already decided which move he wants to try before he starts his move. He's also not sure how to set up his defender yet.I agree with this. When I watch him, he seems to either 1) use his incredible ahtleticism to make a basket, 2) move the ball immediately to an open or semi-open temmate, or 3) force the ball and turn it over or make some ridiculous shot.
He stll needs the game to slow down. I am not sure that is going to happen though
As for ESPN, they are so trying to sell Ball, I have to turn off he sound during the games. I've already heard Mark Jones say multiple times how great a parent Dad is. And they had an extended interview with him Friday night during the game. And last night, it was all about Magic and his thoughts on Lonzo.Trying to follow the NBA on ESPN will be impossible. Its all personality driven, right now all Ball and his father sucking all of the oxygen from the coverage. (Are they at Manzel level yet?) Today's headline is "Ball bounces back," touting his 5-13 shooting.
Quick takes from my non-expert basketball eyes. I think Fultz v Tatum is going to be close in terms of preference. I think Fultz may be more ready, but the benefit of the Lakers' first was enough to make me feel good about dropping back, and I don't have to cringe everytime Fultz does something good. Both seem like impact rookies, well above last year's class. Not disappointed we didnt get Ball. It'd be nice if Tatum didn't have to be the point forward, too, bringing the ball up the court most of the time. Good practice at dribbling, but not able to work on post up game.
I don't think Ball will fail.A
They are really setting him up to fail.
Valleyofthesuns.comJosh Jackson, although not as efficient throughout the game, still did his part with 18 points and 8 rebounds.
The questions about his jump shot still remain, as that strange form still caused a couple of bricks.
His slashing ability was unquestioned though throughout the game, moving without the ball and cutting to the basket with ease.
Still, even as an NBA ready defender, there are some clear offensive holes in his game that will only get better with more playing time.
His continued development will be crucial to our ‘Core Four’ of Booker, Jackson, Chriss, and Bender.
He's going to leapfrog Brown very quickly, not necessarily in minutes, but in terms of role in the halfcourt offense and having plays run for him. Minutes, too, if he has the strength to compete and can be a presence on the defensive glass.Tatum has been very very impressive for a 19 year old - I don't think he's had any open shots either and defenses are already collapsing/double teaming him on most occasions. In our offense he will be wide open for his jump shots and he will be open for 3s as well. I love that he and Brown have to earn their minutes - I think that is a very good thing for their long term success in the league.
Imagine Tatum after 5-6 years in the NBA - wow - could be very special.
His own dad says he will be better than Magic and ESPN is blindly along. Never seen more hype for someone who isn't likely to be a star player.I don't think Ball will fail.
I mean, ESPN is playing along for the ratings aspect. This is the Tebow effect except Ball can actually play a little. Sports Center is probably going to lead with his highlights all year.His own dad says he will be better than Magic and ESPN is blindly along. Never seen more hype for someone who isn't likely to be a star player.
Agreed---he is not ready to be "a guy" yet, but needs reps with the ball and trying to create. We saw a lot of growth as a supporting player last year, especially in playoffs, and we'll just have to see if he's able to keep improving on that while moving down the somewhat long looking road to being a true alphaJaylen looks to me that he's already decided which move he wants to try before he starts his move. He's also not sure how to set up his defender yet.
It's good for him to be the primary guy on this team and have the ball in his hands a lot. He's not going to get that opportunity during the season.
Fixed that for ya.....remember this is the Sixers.Apparently it's a sprain. Not sure how severe yet, but wouldn't be surprised if they hold him out of the rest of the regular season.
It sounds crazy, but would it make sense for Jaylen to spend half a season in the D-league working on running an offense and being a primary creator? His feel is clearly nowhere close right now, and that's a hard thing to develop without live game reps.Agreed---he is not ready to be "a guy" yet, but needs reps with the ball and trying to create. We saw a lot of growth as a supporting player last year, especially in playoffs, and we'll just have to see if he's able to keep improving on that while moving down the somewhat long looking road to being a true alpha
I'm actually quite high on Jaylen, and I think that if the Celtics' ultimate goal for him was to be a 3 and D guy, he should just continue on his current track, and gradually up his minutes while hopefully making fewer mistakes on team defense.Jesus fucking Christ. You want a guy who was second team All-Rookie who played significant minutes for an Eastern Conference finalist to play half a season in the D-League because he needs to work on "running an offense and being a primary creator?"
It is crazy. The kid is 20 and has already improved by leaps and bounds. He's well beyond the D-League. He'll be getting serious minutes for a conference championship contender. You can't come close to replicating that in Portland.
You just described a backup PG.I think Ball is going to be a good, to very good player. I'm not seeing the bust potential honestly. He may have trouble getting his shot off, but on open looks I think he will be good. His defense will be decent against SGs
Brown getting minutes this summer as a ballhandler is good for him, but he hasn't handled it very well so far. He dribbles into nothing a lot, and as someone noted up thread he has one move and mind and isn't creative enough mentally to get out of that move if the read of the play is for something else. He relies too much on his athleticism when creating his shot, and doesn't appear to have the touch for a mid-range game. Right now I see him as a guy who should be able to hit spot up 3s consistently, drive to the basket, play with energy all around the court, and play good defense. In order to develop the type of "star" game his athleticism hints at, he needs to develop a better feel for the game and must improve his mid-range.He's not really ever going to play that role for the Celtics, but if he improves that skill-set a tiny bit it still helps his game.
You want him out of his comfort zone in summer league.
I played against Mark Jones in college. Even then he was shamelessly full of shit.Take a drink every time Mark Jones mentions that when you are playing with Lonzo, you need to always have your eyes on the PG and be ready for a pass.
Agree. He may eventually settle in at the 2, but the team's offense will run through him anyway. He needs to solve the shooting, but the elite vision and passing will take him far once he does.I think Ball is going to be a good, to very good player. I'm not seeing the bust potential honestly. He may have trouble getting his shot off, but on open looks I think he will be good. His defense will be decent against SGs
Even my liver would strain under that burden.Take a drink every time Mark Jones mentions that when you are playing with Lonzo, you need to always have your eyes on the PG and be ready for a pass.
Also Jason Kidd. I mean, it all depends on how strong his strengths are and how weak his weaknesses are. Which is saying absolutely nothing interesting. His passing numbers in college though are all-time great prospect status, though.You just described a backup PG.
Kidd was an elite defender though, not... decent against 2s only, and he was actually pretty good at creating his own shots in the lane.Also Jason Kidd. I mean, it all depends on how strong his strengths are and how weak his weaknesses are. Which is saying absolutely nothing interesting. His passing numbers in college though are all-time great prospect status, though.
I think this is an interesting discussion to have. In my mind, having an elite skill is actually underrated by GM's. I would say it is a necessary although not sufficient criterion for being a potential star, at least when we are talking about young prospects. This is one reason why I think certain types of prospects get continuously overrated, which are exactly those college players with solid to very good skills in many areas but no 'killer app' that can rocket them to the top of the league.People overrate having 1 elite skill, especially when it's passing, plenty of elite college passers flame out or never make the NBA because they lack the other skills needed. Passing is what separates good from great in guys like Lebron and Horford, but it's as a compliment to a host of other physical and skill traits.
Agree with this, and would add that he's likely a 4 once he fills out (6-8/250 isn't a wing in today's NBA). If he can develop a reliable 3-point shot, he'll be a star. If he never shoots better than he does now, he'll be a solid NBA regular.Yeah, the thing about Brown is that, while he might be tantalizing in respect to his stardom, you know you're at least getting a high-energy possibly elite defender and more-than-capable rebounder who can get to the line and sink his free throws. He's going to be at least good and he's going to have his all-world moments on offense to boot.
excellent post, couldn't agree more. Amid speculation on a game or three (Ball is a 2nd round worthy back-up PG; Tatum is the next George Gervin) it's worth keeping in mind that these summer LG guys are mostly so young that it's less about skills on the court than the talents they're flashing and what you call the 'killer app.'I think this is an interesting discussion to have. In my mind, having an elite skill is actually underrated by GM's. I would say it is a necessary although not sufficient criterion for being a potential star, at least when we are talking about young prospects. This is one reason why I think certain types of prospects get continuously overrated, which are exactly those college players with solid to very good skills in many areas but no 'killer app' that can rocket them to the top of the league.
I think this played out in the case of Marcus Smart, to take a recent example. Its also one reason I think Josh Jackson was pretty overrated this year, but no one really knows anything yet.
The reverse example in recent memory is Nikola Jokic. He will probably end up as the best player from his draft class or second best if Embiid can stay healthy, and has a good chance at being a top 10 or top 5 player in the league. And as a prospect he showed elite passing numbers as a big and everything else was decent.