Celtics Sign Tacko Fall

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I can't quite tell if you are trolling or not - you are focused on this year when numerous posters have made the obvious point that the 15th slot is generally a developmental slot that a team doesn't expect to get any actual production out of in that year but hopes the player will improve in future years. If you assume the 15th player is going to contribute virtually nothing to the team this year, which is highly likely to be the case regardless of who they signed, why would you want a veteran retread instead of a player that still has a chance to develop and improve?
Furthermore, the idea that a Faried, Jerebko or anyone else on the street at present will be able to come in and effectively guard players like Embiid, Horford, Gasol, Ibaka etc seems a stretch at best. Faried isn't a horrible defender but he is too small to slow any of those guys on a sustained basis. And Jerebko is horrific defensively - not Kanter bad but that's simply because Golden State never asked him to play the minutes/match-ups that Kanter had to play for the Knicks and Blazers.

I believe few people would argue that the Celtics have good answers to the East's elite bigs. I don't believe that the answer to that as well as the delta between a first or second round exit and the finals is a Faried or Jerebko. Again, if anyone has data to the contrary, please post it because I could easily be wrong about that.
 

Big John

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It's not the 15th roster slot. Roster slots don't have preassigned numbers. Where the player filling that slot falls in the pecking order is up to the coach.
Faried, ZaZa, Nene and Noah are all big bodies with NBA experience. Would one of them make a difference? Probably not. But Tacko certainly won't.
 

DJnVa

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We really need the season to come soon. This used to be one of my favorite Port Cellar threads.

Yeah, let's all agree to disagree, or at least move this talk to a new thread that I can not click on.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's not the 15th roster slot. Roster slots don't have preassigned numbers. Where the player filling that slot falls in the pecking order is up to the coach.
Faried, ZaZa, Nene and Noah are all big bodies with NBA experience. Would one of them make a difference? Probably not. But Tacko certainly won't.
You began this sideshow by repeatedly referring to the 15th man slot and why a vet is better choice than Tacko.

Please don’t backoff now.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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To get back to the original point of the thread, Tacko went on a Basketball without Borders tour and got to meet and speak to Dikembe and work out against Embiid. Joel is going to regret that when Tacko becomes our very own "Embiid-stopper".

 

JakeRae

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I have 100% confidence in Kanter NOT being a 30-35 mpg player in this league. I also have 100% confidence that Ainge and Brad feel same as I do.

If he can give us 20-25 quality minutes a night that is about as good as we can expect.
I am confident Kanter will play 15-25 MPG. I have no confidence that any of those minutes will be quality. I actually think both Jerebko and Faried are better players than Kanter and remain mystified by our decision to sign him. I also don’t understand how either can’t find an NBA contract. All that said, I don’t want that type of player. Ainge and Stevens clearly disagree with me about Kanter and maybe they see something in him they can change to get value out of him. It’s possible that adding a 3 could vault his offensive value up enough to compensate for his defense. Either way, he’s going to play, so we still don’t need a mediocre vet clogging our roster at a position that already is occupied by 4 of our 14 players.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I am confident Kanter will play 15-25 MPG. I have no confidence that any of those minutes will be quality. I actually think both Jerebko and Faried are better players than Kanter and remain mystified by our decision to sign him. I also don’t understand how either can’t find an NBA contract. All that said, I don’t want that type of player. Ainge and Stevens clearly disagree with me about Kanter and maybe they see something in him they can change to get value out of him. It’s possible that adding a 3 could vault his offensive value up enough to compensate for his defense. Either way, he’s going to play, so we still don’t need a mediocre vet clogging our roster at a position that already is occupied by 4 of our 14 players.
I mean it’s pretty obvious what Ainge sees. He sees a player he can get on a stop-gap deal who can compete at that position because we don’t have the bodies to do so. Jerebko is not going to matchup against starting 5’s and neither is Faried so they really don’t have anything to do with his signing.
 

JakeRae

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I mean it’s pretty obvious what Ainge sees. He sees a player he can get on a stop-gap deal who can compete at that position because we don’t have the bodies to do so. Jerebko is not going to matchup against starting 5’s and neither is Faried so they really don’t have anything to do with his signing.
But Ed Davis, Cousins, and Looney all signed similar deals and are all significantly better players. And a guy like Cauley-Stein signed for less. I’m not confused why we signed Kanter instead of Jerebko. I’m confused why we signed Kanter instead of the multiple better options that were available when we signed him. I’m also separately confused why solid depth guys like Jerebko and Faried didn’t get picked up by contenders to fill out their benches.
 

Koufax

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To get back to the original point of the thread, Tacko went on a Basketball without Borders tour and got to meet and speak to Dikembe and work out against Embiid. Joel is going to regret that when Tacko becomes our very own "Embiid-stopper".

Honestly, that article is fabulous and it give me chills to think that it all started with a bunch of guys in Springfield MA and a peach basket.
 

HomeRunBaker

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But Ed Davis, Cousins, and Looney all signed similar deals and are all significantly better players. And a guy like Cauley-Stein signed for less. I’m not confused why we signed Kanter instead of Jerebko. I’m confused why we signed Kanter instead of the multiple better options that were available when we signed him. I’m also separately confused why solid depth guys like Jerebko and Faried didn’t get picked up by contenders to fill out their benches.
If anyones opinion is that Ed Davis, a 16 mpg second unit player, is a significantly better player than I have to believe that the only thing the person is looking at are flawed metrics of a player whose limited usage is designed to hide his liabilities. I’ve said my piece on Looney who is a great fit for his role playing off the scorers in Golden State but limited in his overall game. At least Looney is significantly better on one side of the ball than Kanter but why in the world would be agree to a one-year deal with Boston?

I agree Cousins could have been an option. It’s reasonable however that Ainge did not want to deal with all the issues surrounding Boogie.
 

benhogan

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If anyones opinion is that Ed Davis, a 16 mpg second unit player, is a significantly better player than I have to believe that the only thing the person is looking at are flawed metrics of a player whose limited usage is designed to hide his liabilities. I’ve said my piece on Looney who is a great fit for his role playing off the scorers in Golden State but limited in his overall game. At least Looney is significantly better on one side of the ball than Kanter but why in the world would be agree to a one-year deal with Boston?

I agree Cousins could have been an option. It’s reasonable however that Ainge did not want to deal with all the issues surrounding Boogie.
I don't think those guys are significantly better BUT
I'm curious to see what Brad has cooked up defensively to hide Kanter's PnR defense for his ~20mpg.

Having your #4 or 5 offensive option Enis Kanter, develop his 3pt shot, w/Kemba, Brown, Tatum and Hayward on the floor while massively downgrading on defense is questionable roster construction at best.
Not having a defense-first 5, after signing Kemba, is a head scratcher, unless Vincent Poirier is that guy...
 

Jimbodandy

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I don't think those guys are significantly better BUT
I'm curious to see what Brad has cooked up defensively to hide Kanter's PnR defense for his ~20mpg.

Having your #4 or 5 offensive option Enis Kanter, develop his 3pt shot, w/Kemba, Brown, Tatum and Hayward on the floor while massively downgrading on defense is questionable roster construction at best.
Not having a defense-first 5, after signing Kemba, is a head scratcher, unless Vincent Poirier is that guy...
Stevens won't simply roll that particular lineup out there against teams that can abuse it. He's going to have to work his ass off to protect a weak defensive guard AND center now, and I suspect that he will as much as humanly possible.
 
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Saints Rest

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Can Faried do this? If not, start a thread about him.

In a desperate attempt to get this thread back to its titular subject,...
Although Fall’s standing reach is impressive, what is his reach at max vertical leap? The NBA may not have many players who can grab the rim while standing flat-footed, it does have many players who can leap and reach MUCH higher than that. So if you put an Embiid or Giannis on Fall in the low post and try an alley oop, who can jump and reach higher?
 

lovegtm

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In a desperate attempt to get this thread back to its titular subject,...
Although Fall’s standing reach is impressive, what is his reach at max vertical leap? The NBA may not have many players who can grab the rim while standing flat-footed, it does have many players who can leap and reach MUCH higher than that. So if you put an Embiid or Giannis on Fall in the low post and try an alley oop, who can jump and reach higher?
The reason that raw standing reach matters so much is that your opponents are allowed to do lots of things to throw off your jumping and timing. Guards can do layups off the wrong foot or switch hands to finish. People can throw their body into to you to stop you from jumping. And so on.

This is a big difference between basketball and a sport like ultimate frisbee, where you’re not allowed to body opponents, and the location of the thing to jump for is known, so raw max vertical + timing beats standing reach.

Of course being able to jump in basketball is awesome, but there are reasons that standing reach is such a massive factor.
 

Jimbodandy

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In a desperate attempt to get this thread back to its titular subject,...
Although Fall’s standing reach is impressive, what is his reach at max vertical leap? The NBA may not have many players who can grab the rim while standing flat-footed, it does have many players who can leap and reach MUCH higher than that. So if you put an Embiid or Giannis on Fall in the low post and try an alley oop, who can jump and reach higher?
26.5" vert, according to lord google. So yeah, someone will have to do the standing reach/vert math to see who can high point him. There's likely some that can.

Imo, with Tacko it's about the second and third jump, those that he actually doesn't have to make.

Edit: lovegtm said it better
 

Imbricus

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I was initially concerned when Tacko was cut from his Senegal squad for the FIBA World Cup -- surely, he must be one of the best 16 players from Senegal, no? But looks like he's focusing his energies on making the Celtics 15-man roster. Maybe a long shot, but I'm rooting for him.
 

nighthob

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26.5" vert, according to lord google. So yeah, someone will have to do the standing reach/vert math to see who can high point him. There's likely some that can.
The max vertical isn’t the important number, he’s pretty much never going to be taking a running start before jumping. It’s the standing vertical that’s important, but even there he’s at 22”, which makes him a pretty imposing barrier with that standing reach.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm kind of amazed that Canobie Lake not only survived but thrived once Six Flags took over Riverside.
If you live inside 128, especially north of Boston, Canobie lake is a million times more convenient. It's a bigtime hike to Six Flags. Unless you're a coaster connoisseur, why bother.
 
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drleather2001

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If you love inside 128, especially north of Boston, Canobie lake is a million times more convenient. It's a bigtime hike to Six Flags. Unless you're a coaster connoisseur, why bother.
There was no goddamn way my parents were shlepping me 2.5 hours to Riverside Park when Canobie was 25 minutes away.
 

Gash Prex

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Concerned that if he's not on the roster he is gone. Too bad, think he could really use playing time in the G-league with a late callup scenario for limited minutes/role.
 

mcpickl

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Concerned that if he's not on the roster he is gone. Too bad, think he could really use playing time in the G-league with a late callup scenario for limited minutes/role.
The Celtics can just turn his exhibit 10 contract into a two way contract without exposing him to other teams in the league. All they'd have to do is move on from Waters or Strus(most likely), to keep him.

You don't need to have any concern. Unless the Celtics just don't think he'll ever be an NBA player, they'll have his rights this year.
 

Gash Prex

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The Celtics can just turn his exhibit 10 contract into a two way contract without exposing him to other teams in the league. All they'd have to do is move on from Waters or Strus(most likely), to keep him.

You don't need to have any concern. Unless the Celtics just don't think he'll ever be an NBA player, they'll have his rights this year.
Ah right thank you for the reminder - Strus seems like the likely candidate. Certainly you can find another "Strus" if Tacko doesn't work out - but I doubt you can find another Tacko.
 

NomarsFool

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Is it possible to pay him the equivalent of a 2 way contract and still have him play in the G-league, or is that not allowed?

The reality is, Tacko needs to play basketball, and he's not going to do a lot of that for the Celtics or just about any other NBA club this year. I realize money is important, especially for someone who is as on the bubble of the NBA as he is - but I'd hate to see him try and make his way on a roster just for money.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Is it possible to pay him the equivalent of a 2 way contract and still have him play in the G-league, or is that not allowed?

The reality is, Tacko needs to play basketball, and he's not going to do a lot of that for the Celtics or just about any other NBA club this year. I realize money is important, especially for someone who is as on the bubble of the NBA as he is - but I'd hate to see him try and make his way on a roster just for money.
If they sign him to a 2-way contract, he can play in the G League as much as they want - they technically wouldn't ever need to call him up to the NBA all year. But if you're asking whether they could sign him to a purely G League contract and use their 2 2-way contracts on others, then no - if that was the case he'd be eligible to sign to any other team's NBA roster, if any team wanted to give him a roster spot.
 

TripleOT

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I was at the game yesterday. Fall moves a lot better than I thought. He's an NBA player, in that he has one top of the league skill. He can defend the paint and block shots. I will be very disappointed if he doesn't stick with the Celtics. Same with Waters. That little guy knows how to play PG. Green is also an interesting prospect. I had more fun watching the fourth quarter of this exhibition game than any game last year at the Garden.
 

GoDa

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I think there are several NBA teams that would snatch Fall up in a heartbeat and play him 10 minutes per night. It might not be 'best' for him, but I bet that option is there. He does seem to be settling in well in Boston, so there's also that. You've got to think the C's will find some way to get him to the G-League and steady minutes every night. Work on some of the finer points and see where he is later in the year. If he gets to the point where he's impacting those games like he did the games in college... it's really hard for me to believe there aren't consistent minutes in the NBA for him.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think there are several NBA teams that would snatch Fall up in a heartbeat and play him 10 minutes per night. It might not be 'best' for him, but I bet that option is there. He does seem to be settling in well in Boston, so there's also that. You've got to think the C's will find some way to get him to the G-League and steady minutes every night. Work on some of the finer points and see where he is later in the year. If he gets to the point where he's impacting those games like he did the games in college... it's really hard for me to believe there aren't consistent minutes in the NBA for him.
I don’t see how a team with zero good centers can just throw away a guy who at least can do one or two things really well. How often are the last few guys ever needed in the NBA? Give the spot to Tacko.
 

DJnVa

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I don’t see how a team with zero good centers can just throw away a guy who at least can do one or two things really well. How often are the last few guys ever needed in the NBA? Give the spot to Tacko.
Yeah, I'm not sure how you can risk losing Tacko to keep...Max Strus?
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah, I'm not sure how you can risk losing Tacko to keep...Max Strus?
Seriously. There will be legitimate backlash if they make that decision for some scrub like Strus. Give Tacko the 2-way contract and re-evaluate after a year in Maine.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think it is probably true that some team would sign him and run him out there for 10 minutes. But that, if true, means he requires a regular roster spot, not a 2=way deal spot.

To convince me that he has an NBA skill, he will have to do it against actual NBA lineups not just preseason end of bench guys.
 

BigSoxFan

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I think it is probably true that some team would sign him and run him out there for 10 minutes. But that, if true, means he requires a regular roster spot, not a 2=way deal spot.

To convince me that he has an NBA skill, he will have to do it against actual NBA lineups not just preseason end of bench guys.
What is Max Strus’ NBA skill? Tacko is entirely an upside play. Roster him now, let him continue to develop for a year, and then see where you are next fall. The Strus’ and Green’s of the world are a dime a dozen. Ainge can find them or comparable players in the G League at any time and his decision on the 15th roster spot will have a de minimus impact on the season. So, why not gamble on upside at this point? Fall is not ready to contribute meaningful minutes but nobody expects that at this point.
 

lexrageorge

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What is Max Strus’ NBA skill? Tacko is entirely an upside play. Roster him now, let him continue to develop for a year, and then see where you are next fall. The Strus’ and Green’s of the world are a dime a dozen. Ainge can find them or comparable players in the G League at any time and his decision on the 15th roster spot will have a de minimus impact on the season. So, why not gamble on upside at this point? Fall is not ready to contribute meaningful minutes but nobody expects that at this point.
Exactly.

Putting Tacko on a 2-way contract seems like a no-brainer. Typically, the 17th roster spot goes to a marginal NBA player anyway, so why not use it on a guy with an uncoachable skill and potential upside. Yes, chances are likely that Fall is at best a 10mpg role player. Or maybe not even that.

But I honestly don't get the reservations some folks have about using one of their 2-way spots on him. They can always find another Strus for next season if Fall doesn't work out.
 
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Big John

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I'm not particularly high on Tacko-- there are too many weaknesses for teams to exploit--but I'd take him over Strus. As long as Tacko gets heavy playing time in Maine to work on his game, I'm fine with whatever contract Ainge wants to give him.

And frankly, if Ainge elects to let Tacko go elsewhere, I'm fine with that too. At the moment Tacko is a curiosity with upside, not an NBA rotation player.
 

DJnVa

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What is the potential upside of Max Strus? He's another 6'5 to 6'6 wing player. I think we have them. Even if he pans out enough to get minutes, he would be taking them from guys that are our strength.

If Tacko realizes his upside? It's at a position of dire need.