I agree it will be difficult if not impossible to receive decent value right now for the reasons you mention. I was only pointing out that if anything happened I'd lean toward a rebuilding team
Celtics in 18-19
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
Yeah, I think he's kind of in no man's land with respect to trade value. Bamba is a guy who would intrigue me given his potential. Magic are currently starting Jonathan Simmons at SF so Jaylen would be a clear upgrade there.
This seems overly harsh. He is struggling this year no doubt, but he doesn't appear to be playing anything but a secondary role - just as he did last year. He is shooting same # of threes per 36. Nearly identical FG/36. Steals are down a bit, but blocks are up. I don't know, if he made 10 more threes on the year, I doubt this conversation even takes place
Yes he's playing his same role but clearly a bad fit as he's a young kid who doesn't really know where to be on the floor. A contender is going to be looking for veterans they can trust especially in a 3-and-D role. Like other said though we're likely keeping him around for now.
If Orlando likes Rozier long term, Jaylen+Rozier+Yabu+Parker for Bamba+Ross could work for both teams. The Magic would get their starting PG and SF of the future. The Celtics would get a very good scorer off the bench in Ross and a player with tremendous upside in Bamba who can provide defensive value now while balancing out the roster. It may also come into play re the salary cap since Bamba is further away from FA than Brown.
That trade would make Robert Williams redundant, too. Or could possibly include Robert Williams.
Wow. Brown was a key playoff player 25 games ago and now we should trade him for some guys who can jump?
The whole team was dysfunctional until a week ago. Maybe another dozen games to work the rotation out?
The whole team was dysfunctional until a week ago. Maybe another dozen games to work the rotation out?
Let’s not forget that last year people on here also thought Rozier was better for the Celtics to keep than Kyrie.
Brown was one of the guys I was most excited about after last season. He took an enormous leap. Yes, he’s been really confused out there so far this year but the team has as well. I’m hoping Danny is less trade happy than folks here because I’m still expecting good things from the guy.
No one is really suggesting to trade Jaylen for any of those guys. Those are just the offers the Celtics would likely receive, which means Brown isn't going anywhere.
This is nowhere close to being accurate though. A team may squeak into the playoffs and get crushed by GS in the first round. They are not a contender.
This feels like jumping to conclusions. There's value in a 6'7" athletic guard who can run, defend 3 positions, catch & shoot, and drive closeouts. He has a long way to go to be more than that, here or anywhere, but that is a lot, especially on his rookie deal.
This might be true, though.
Let's see if Jaylen figures it out coming off the bench. But he has been lost from day 1 this year, it's been a head scratcher
A rebuilder like the Hawks might want to bring Jaylen home?
Prince + Huerter for Brown works monetarily
Why are people keen to have the Celtics trade away the (tarnished) quarter that is Jaylen Brown in '18-19 for what amounts to be an equally tarnished dime and what might be a nickel or might be a penny? Prince and Huerter are fine but they both need playing time to develop and its not clear what this does for the Cs except exacerbate their roster crunch. Also, Prince is an older NBA three year vet (he will be 25 in about three months), is having a down year too and is out until around new years with a bad ankle.
Ainge and Stevens aren't going to deal away Brown unless they need to. Let's see what role he gets when he returns and how he responds.
"Let's see if Jaylen figures it out coming off the bench"
what part of the above makes it sound like I'm keen to deal Jaylen? It's pretty much what you concluded with...
I'd be shocked if Danny moved anyone before the middle of January. All this banter is 5 days off and Celtic fans are restless.
Ainge doesn’t “need” to do anything. He has a good player in Brown. But if another guy becomes available who may be able to help the team more in the short and long-term, Ainge will consider it.
Discussing the possibility of a trade is a far cry from wanting to drive a player to the airport. I like Brown. I love his personality. But he ain’t Tatum and he’s the guy we can most realistically deal should a big deal come up.
I personally don’t see any major deals happening this season. If anything happens, it’ll be this summer after we’ve presumably had a chance to see how the squad has done and have a million draft picks.
I completely agree and I am not going at KOC...er. benhogan either. I get why he is proposing an Atlanta trade but I think you keep Brown for now. If they can get better by trading him, go for it. If he develops, even better. If he becomes one of the pieces that fetch a certain transformational big, all the better.
Brown is the type of player who, if he performs, can get a max in many offseasons, but isn’t a guy you want to max on a contender. Unfortunately, I’m not sure he has much value now, so just roll with him and hope he finds a role and gets his confidence back a bit. Maybe something pops up at the trade deadline and maybe not. No real bad options, provided he doesn’t stay terrible.
I’d like to point out that Jaylen was at his best last year in the playoffs. Who was his back court mate at that time? Scary Terry who will now be his back court mate on the second unit.
I thought that was going to be Hayward who is filling the role next to Terry on the second unit? If Jaylen can't fit in I don't see us trading him but I can see his minutes being greatly reduced as he really doesn't fill any role on this team. He is kinda just there being given minutes because.....well, he's there. He looks like the odd man out right now in a rotation that figured to have "somebody" be that guy with so much redundancy throughout the lineup.
Hayward will initiate a lot of offense but in terms of giving players positions Brown at the 2 and Hayward at the 3 on defense guarding the opposition’s bench should work.
I think figuring out Brown/Hayward’s offense on the second unit will be easier for Stevens than trying to figure out Tatum/Brown/Hayward’s as starters.
I think figuring out Brown/Hayward’s offense on the second unit will be easier for Stevens than trying to figure out Tatum/Brown/Hayward’s as starters.
This is exactly correct.
The “Jaylen doesn’t fit on this team” takes are as bad as the ones about Kyrie early in the year. There’s no logic to them; they’re just a reaction to his slow start combined with certain posters wanting to publicly confirm their priors about the makeup of the roster. His usage is the same as last year! He doesn’t need the ball in his hands! What he needs to do is to hit his threes, be effective on the break, cut to the basket, and play hellacious defense. Basically he needs to be 2018 playoffs Jaylen or even regular season 2017/18 Jaylen. Nobody is complaining about 37-40% from 3 Jaylen who can defend multiple positions and make a layup. That Jaylen is in there and would be great for this team.
Even if he’s totally regressed forever, which I seriously doubt, it hasn’t happened because Hayward has a healthy ankle. Let’s have some patience.
If he still sucks at the ASB maybe Danny thinks about trading Terry and distributing his minutes among Brown and Smart. Kyrie, Smart, and Hayward are enough ball handling. Brown should be in the long-term plans while Terry isn’t (plus he’s hinting at being disgruntled).
Last edited:
Yes to both of these takes. He was no doubt at his worst when the whole team was struggling to find identity. Which is not necessarily surprising as he is well below Kyrie, Tatum, and Hayward at creating his own offense. Once there's a system for him to play a role in he'll be fine if he accepts the role. If he doesn't, he's going to struggle no matter where he goes.
Disagree with the bolded. JB still is given the assignment to guard the opposing team's best scorer. Maybe he won't start, but he will get his 25+ minutes a game because he's too valuable both now and in the future.
As for his game, it's interesting that his shooting percentages compared to last year. Basically, it's what we all see: he can't get his shot to go down. For example, last year he shot 48.4% on 82 left corner 3P attempts. This year he us 1-9.
(2017 / 2018)
less than 5': 56.3% / 54.1%
5' - 9': 38.2% / 37.5%
10' - 14': 37.8% / 41.2%
15' - 19': 45.8% / 30.0%
20' - 24': 38.6% / 26.5%
25' - 29': 39.2% / 25.0%
He doesn't have a role? His role is to be a bad ass mother fucking basketball player. As soon as he stops over thinking everything and realizes this it'll all be fine.
Small nitpick but won't that be Smart's job to start the 1st and 3rd Quarters, guarding the opposing teams best scorer? and if Jaylen comes off the bench, won't that be the same time the opposing teams best scorer gets a rest?
In crunch time (late/tight) I'd expect the small ball team to be Kyrie, Gordon, Tatum, MaMo, Al (w/Smart coming in for Kyrie for a defensive situation).
Actually, Jaylen's defensive assignment would be to shut down the opposing teams best bench scorer, something he could do in his sleep. A bench role for Jaylen could be quite beneficial to him if he embraces it. He'll play with Hayward, who is getting healthier/better and will distribute the ball more to Jaylen. He'll get more minutes with Baynes, who will set wipe out screens for Jaylen. He had good chemistry with Rozier last spring. Plus the pressure might be dialed down as they start winning. His efficiency numbers should skyrocket after such a rough start.
Last edited:
Yes to all of this. It makes a shitload of sense.
Looking forward to Thursday, after all of these practice days. Keep it going.
Fwiw, I see no reason why Brown should look at sharing the court with Hayward, Rozier, and maybe Baynes as some kind of slap in the face. Of course he has an ego, wants to be paid eventually, thinks he should start. But Hayward and Rozier are starters many places and have started. This is a good situation. He'll get his minutes and opportunities. Seems like an easy message to communicate and consume.
Yeah, there are two different Brown issues that have gotten mixed up in our minds:
1. The team's overall wing depth, which leaves him out of the best closing lineups
2. His own issues finding his game
#2 is going to fix itself to a large degree just by Hayward feeling better and taking the lead dog role in bench lineups. If Jaylen slots in with those initially, shots will come pretty naturally, and he'll be able to be decisive. #1 is a massive long-term issue, particularly when Jaylen's contract year hits, but it can be put off for a couple months while rehabbing Jaylen's value.
I figure that Hayward will take the role that Horford often took last playoff season, being the non-traditional point forward, with the offense running through him. I think that will help ROzier a lot, but won't impact Jaylen much.
And Hayward will also partially fill JT's role in being the alpha-dog scorer on the second unit. JT last season did not negatively impact JB's play, so I don't think that will be an issue.
To me, as many here and elsewhere have stated, when the season started, there were 3 guys in front of JB in the starting unit who needed to get their touches first -- Kyrie, JT, GH. Last season, by the time the playoffs rolled around, JB was really second in line after JT. On this second unit, JB goes back to being second in line. I think this will help.
Yeah, guys that were closing out playoff games last year won’t be this year. That’s gonna be interesting.
Everything posted here and above isn't incorrect. Theoretically and on paper it all sounds great. People were saying the same about Rozier over the summer too. Unfortunately kids on rookie deals who face a demotion from the starting lineup don't always react robotically as if a second unit off the ball role is a great opportunity when you know that you need numbers to get paid when you hit FA......as your entire support system is screaming at you about numbers, contracts and how you're getting screwed by the coach. We've seen this for decades. Hopefully Jaylen will buck the trend and respond in a positive manner. We'll see.
Not arguing this point. But Brown is not in his walk year. He's not in the same position as Rozier. It's a different conversation.
Yep. And even Rozier is only somewhat in his walk year for he has to look forward to restricted free agency.
I agree with this, especially re the people around him. My guess is that he probably has 15-40 games in him as a good soldier off the bench before the pressure of tons of voices in different directions gets too grinding. Hopefully that's enough time for him to settle in and rebuild his value.
Going from a starter in Year 2 with visions of a max in his future to a reserve in Year 3 without the touches and numbers he's had in the past is not far from the same conversation......it just gives him a larger window of uncertainty which may be even worse without knowing his path. He went from thinking potential max to know questioning whether his team even wants to use him as a starter. For a young kid with big dollars in front of him that is a ton to process......and maybe even moreso for someone with the intellect of a Jaylen.
Jaylen Brown is attempting .7 fewer FGA per game. It's not as if he has been relegated to Semi status
Attempting shots out of flow with an eFG% of 44.0 while being benched in year 3 as a result is far different than making a sophomore leap in year 2, starting, and shooting it at 54.4%, no?
I was one of Jaylen's few supporters here on draft night while defending him from those sprouting "lazy shooting stats" without context in his year at Cal. I certainly have no ax to grind with him.....only calling it as I see it. His fall from grace this year isn't any "regression" at all......it's being a square peg trying to fit into a round hole with this team.
Jaylen is shooting about 25% on catch-and-shoot 3pt attempts, 30% with the nearest defender 4-6 ft away, and 17% on wide open looks. The entire narrative of Jaylen's season to this point would look different if he were his normal self on all of those looks, a lot of which are 100% in the rhythm of the offense.
Part of why I'd be thinking about a Rozier deal is to free up more time for the wings (with Smart taking most of the PG minutes behind Kyrie), including Brown.
If you deal Rozier then you're looking at serious Wannamaker or Dozier minutes if either KI or Smart get hurt. That's the serious downside.
This is what makes Rozier so valuable to us this year over any minor asset that a rental returns. The other thing is why would we want to improve another contender while creating a hole for ourselves? If Rozier IS traded it's one of the GM/agent favors that goes on.
It is a legitimate downside, and maybe a reason not to deal. However, I do think Rozier not really being a fit here is costing the team on the court.
Danny is smart enough to not leave us in that position. I have to think that any moves involving Rozier, should they occur, would end up with us getting a plan B guy somehow. We haven't seen Wanamaker much thankfully, but he's clearly plan C.
It doesn't matter if Rozier is happy with his role. It matters how well he plays and id he creates chemistry issues or not.
There will likely be veteran PGs on the buyout market.that could give you ~80% of peak Rozier though. Question is whether the return from a Rozier trade can offset the potential downgrade
False. Every minute Rozier plays that would otherwise go to some combination of Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Morris is a net negative, particularly on defense. He has tremendous value as a “break glass in emergency” kind of guy, as we saw in the playoffs last year, but I think he’s otherwise a net negative.
We want the same thing. He's not a guy that we're looking to develop.
What I'm saying is that his happiness level isn't important. Whether it impacts the team negatively is what's important.
If it is affecting his play then it is crucial and it clearly is affecting his play. This was part of the challenges that Stevens had facing him heading into this season. It's still way early so Brad has time to reign this in and mold a cohesive championship caliber team. It isn't going to be easy.