Celtics in 18-19

[HomeRunBaker]

I get what you're saying, but has the game evolved THAT MUCH since the end of last season? Enough to go from Horford playing with another big 50% of the time to 5%? That's a shit load of Darwinian evolution in 6 months.

1. Yes I feel it has. The Pace, 3-point numbers, and opposing teams lineups show the enormous difference in the style of play these past two seasons although it began to really trend this way last year.

2. Many people are forgetting that Horford was hardly even going to be paired with another big last season if not for the Hayward injury. Then you also had Morris with his knee problem all year that forced him in and out of the lineup especially early in the year. SOMEBODY has to play those minutes next to Horford and in close to half of those games the options were Baynes, Ojeleye, Nader, Theis or Yabusele.....which is not the case this year. Baynes was signed to play those 2nd unit big minutes as we saw last pre-season and if not for injuries that is what his role would have been.

 

[lovegtm]

I get what you're saying, but has the game evolved THAT MUCH since the end of last season? Enough to go from Horford playing with another big 50% of the time to 5%? That's a shit load of Darwinian evolution in 6 months.

I flip back and forth between "small sample size" and "WTF is happening?". I don't know--10-10 sucks, but we've lost 4 games by 6 points or less. We won those last season, especially early in that 16 game streak. Those 4 games flip and we're fine--record wise. And each was there for taking late in game. That's what's frustrating.

Orlando, lost by 3: Celtics had a 4th quarter possession where we missed 3 shots inside of 6', then miss two three-pointers in last 7 seconds.

Indiana, lost by 1: Oladipo hits 27 footer with 4 seconds left, Celtics give up 5 points in last 38 seconds, we miss 2 footer in last minute.

Portland, lost by 6: Celtics score 1 point in last 2 minutes of game.

Charlotte, lost by 5: Irving misses from 8 feet, Charlotte gets 2 offensive boards, scores to push lead to 4.

And in that Charlotte game we had a stretch where we seemed to be figuring it out, then...POOF...it was gone.

A lot of these games are games that a better team wouldn't leave close. Last years team spoiled us a bit: they won a lot of games, but didn't have a great differential, and pulled out a lot of games at the wire. The mark of an elite team is consistently putting up big margins, not wondering whether some better bounces could have you 12-8 or 13-7.

And if we're going to go through the losses like this, we also have to remember the lucky wins against OKC, Toronto, and Phoenix. The latter two, in particular, were completely pulled out of their asses. This team could easily be 7-13.

 

[nighthob]

I get what you're saying, but has the game evolved THAT MUCH since the end of last season? Enough to go from Horford playing with another big 50% of the time to 5%? That's a shit load of Darwinian evolution in 6 months.

Boston is still 22nd in pace this year, but are playing at a faster pace than last year. Last year's top three teams in pace were playing at the league average pace for 2019. The game has gotten faster.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

A team scoring 100 in 3 quarters is commonplace nowadays.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Much like the NFL rule changes, the new NBA shot clock reset to 14 seconds as well as the league's emphasis on calling freedom of movement fouls has contributed to higher scoring.

Somewhere, the early to mid 1990s Knicks (and many of their contemporaries) weep and shake their fists at todays snowflake players.

 

[benhogan]

I knew KOC was reading this forum. I just didn't know he posts under the username "benhogan"

Ha, I'm a fund mgr in Southern California, but after the last two months, I wish I was a sports writer.

Haven't read KOC article yet, but always enjoy his takes.

 

[lovegtm]

Ha, I'm a fund mgr in Southern California, but after the last two months, I wish I was a sports writer.

Haven't read KOC article yet, but always enjoy his takes.

Sounds suspiciously like what Kevin O'Connor would say.

 

[jmm57]

Jaylen out tonight. Labeled as a back after that fall in Dallas.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Sounds suspiciously like what Kevin O'Connor would say.

Yup.

I am betting that much like Vincent Adultman and Kevin, KOC and "benhogan" can never be in the same room together.

 

[benhogan]

OK, I see where you're coming from DeJesus. It covered a lot of my incessant drum beats.

I'm glad KOC analyzed the importance of "screens" to the offense...Baynes sublime screen setting is what I was getting at from the Hawks/Celtics historic offensive 1st Quarter on Friday night. Trae Young was going under, but Bazemore, Lin and Prince all tried to go over (and Baynes wasn't having any of that). Baynes is one of the best at setting screens, taking charges and boxing out in the NBA. Anyone that watches that First Quarter again would have to be a blooming idiot not to see Baynes hustle effect on their offensive chances and scoring. I'm not going to go possession by possession, but his fingerprints were all over that scoring barrage.

It's also not shocking to hear Al has had lingering knee issues for several weeks now (kept him out of the Hawks game). Prediction: if we continue to play Al strictly at the 5 to battle the Embiids/Drummonds/Jordans, he'll get driven into the ground and won't last the season. McPickl and I raised this concern earlier this year. Just one of many reasons Al should start the 1st and 3rd Quarters at the 4. I expect to continue to get pushback from HRB here, but it's obvious that a 32yr old Al is not physically built to play those BIGs 30 minutes a night (for ~10 minutes fine).

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

OK, I see where you're coming from DeJesus. It covered a lot of my incessant drum beats.

I'm glad KOC analyzed the importance of "screens" to the offense...Baynes sublime screen setting is what I was getting at from the Hawks/Celtics historic offensive 1st Quarter on Friday night. Trae Young was going under, but Bazemore, Lin and Prince all tried to go over (and Baynes wasn't having any of that). Baynes is one of the best at setting screens, taking charges and boxing out in the NBA. Anyone that watches that First Quarter again would have to be a blooming idiot not to see Baynes hustle effect on their offensive chances and scoring. I'm not going to go possession by possession, but his fingerprints were all over that scoring barrage.

It's also not shocking to hear Al has had lingering knee issues for several weeks now (kept him out of the Hawks game). Prediction: if we continue to play Al strictly at the 5 to battle the Embiids/Drummonds/Jordans, he'll get driven into the ground and won't last the season. McPickl and I raised this concern earlier this year. Just one of many reasons Al should start the 1st and 3rd Quarters at the 4. I expect to continue to get pushback from HRB here, but it's so obvious that a 32yr old Al is not physically built to play those BIGs 30 minutes a night (for ~10 minutes fine).

Fair enough and I think any suggestions are fair game at this point.

That said, I am curious how a gimpy kneed, older Horford will be better preserved playing against modern NBA fours when that requires a lot of defense at the arc. It seems like a lot of ground to cover for a guy who is already struggling against switches and faster players in general.

 

[benhogan]

Fair enough and I think any suggestions are fair game at this point.

That said, I am curious how a gimpy kneed, older Horford will be better preserved playing against modern NBA fours when that requires a lot of defense at the arc. It seems like a lot of ground to cover for a guy who is already struggling against switches and faster players in general.

Did he get burned by 4's all last season? Seriously point out a game last year where he couldn't cover a 4?

I see Al as more "long" then "big" and is more than capable of swatting a 4s drive to the hoop or contesting a 3 from the perimeter.

IMO he's a plus defender at the 4 and an average defender at the 5. I'll stick with that based on stats and the eye test.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Fair enough and I think any suggestions are fair game at this point.

That said, I am curious how a gimpy kneed, older Horford will be better preserved playing against modern NBA fours when that requires a lot of defense at the arc. It seems like a lot of ground to cover for a guy who is already struggling against switches and faster players in general.

Good question. My intuition is that bodying 260# guys is more wear and tear on a big's body than trying to stay in front of a faster guy. But of course that wouldn't be true with an MCL. Probably depends on the nature of the injury.

The "start Baynes against the Embiids and Drummonds" guy inside me has always been more concerned about the mental aspects. Wearing yourself down man-defending a moose robs a gifted facilitator of energy. On the other hand, maybe we have enough facilitators that Al's defense is more needed than his offense. I could be convinced of that.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

From an eye test perspective, I see teams consistently exploiting Horford on switches this year and unlike years past, he seems a step slower to stay with his new cover or to recover to his original guy. It may be an flawed perception, the knee injury or age catching up with him. Or maybe its a little bit of everything.

Tonight would be a good test of your lineup though. Let's see if Stevens adjusts or if we are in for more of the same.

If its the latter, I take the over on bitter postgame posts.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Did he get burned by 4's all last season? Seriously point out a game last year where he couldn't cover a 4?

Haven't we just gone over how much the differences in Pace, Lineups, and Perimeter Spacing with dribble drives this year make "last year" a terrible comp? Not to mention Horford is a year older and if he is struggling physically it is really going to be exposed on the perimeter under with these other factors in play. Why are you refusing to acknowledge the changes in this league since last year when evaluating this picture?

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Horford getting the start, Baynes to the bench in favor of Smart. Did some of you prefer to see Baynes on Davis with Horford chasing Mirotic around 25 feet from the basket or Baynes chasing Mirotic on the perimeter? This move is Brad not exposing himself to some terrible mismatches.

 

[lovegtm]

Horford getting the start, Baynes to the bench in favor of Smart. Did some of you prefer to see Baynes on Davis with Horford chasing Mirotic around 25 feet from the basket or Baynes chasing Mirotic on the perimeter? This move is Brad not exposing himself to some terrible mismatches.

Brad needs to look very, very seriously at using the Kyrie-Smart-Tatum-Morris-Horford lineup as his go-to. The defensive intensity and BBIQ is so high, everyone except Smart is a plus shooter, and Smart adds a lot of additional ball-handling options to let them give different looks and run varied sets.

Hayward seems accepting of his current limitations and value to the 2nd unit, which just leaves Brown to figure out (leaving aside the Rozier situation). I'm not sure what they do with Jaylen at this point, but Morris and Smart are clearly better suited to the starting/closing lineup as complementary players to the three creators.

 

[Big John]

Smart did a nice job of running the offense.

 

[lovegtm]

Smart did a nice job of running the offense.

That Kyrie guy is ok at basketball too.

 

[benhogan]

Horford getting the start, Baynes to the bench in favor of Smart. Did some of you prefer to see Baynes on Davis with Horford chasing Mirotic around 25 feet from the basket or Baynes chasing Mirotic on the perimeter? This move is Brad not exposing himself to some terrible mismatches.

Technically it's not "Baynes to the bench in favor of Smart", Aron didn't start the Dallas game. It's Smart in for Jaylen. Brad probably thought Baynes was a better situational matchup with Julius Randle. MaMo really blanketed Mirotic on the perimeter tonight, there is no way Horford could have done that.

Playing Smart (lunch pail player) worked for me. I like 1 lunch pail player (Baynes, Smart, Theis, Semi) on the floor at all times. You don't need to stick 5 offensive alphas on all at once, we've seen that and it sucks. What did Brad say about Smart and Baynes in the post-game presser? I think it was "they bring a lot of grit" something this team desperately needs at all times.

Good to see Al and Aron playing together tonight. Did they really survive the "Pace, Lineups, and Perimeter Spacing with dribble drives this year" that rendered them unplayable together?


I'd expect to see a drastic increase (from the present 5% usage) in minutes with the Horford/Baynes pairing going forward.

 

[lovegtm]

Brad needs to look very, very seriously at using the Kyrie-Smart-Tatum-Morris-Horford lineup as his go-to. The defensive intensity and BBIQ is so high, everyone except Smart is a plus shooter, and Smart adds a lot of additional ball-handling options to let them give different looks and run varied sets.

Hayward seems accepting of his current limitations and value to the 2nd unit, which just leaves Brown to figure out (leaving aside the Rozier situation). I'm not sure what they do with Jaylen at this point, but Morris and Smart are clearly better suited to the starting/closing lineup as complementary players to the three creators.

To answer my own question about Jaylen: it might make sense to explicitly have him play primarily on the 2nd unit, much as Hayward is doing now. As he gets comfortable and finds his game, particularly on defense, they can work him back into the starting lineup. They have almost two years before his next deal comes up, so they can be more patient than they can with Rozier.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Brad needs to look very, very seriously at using the Kyrie-Smart-Tatum-Morris-Horford lineup as his go-to. The defensive intensity and BBIQ is so high, everyone except Smart is a plus shooter, and Smart adds a lot of additional ball-handling options to let them give different looks and run varied sets.

Hayward seems accepting of his current limitations and value to the 2nd unit, which just leaves Brown to figure out (leaving aside the Rozier situation). I'm not sure what they do with Jaylen at this point, but Morris and Smart are clearly better suited to the starting/closing lineup as complementary players to the three creators.

I agree with this. There will be nights when Rozier is on and can close out games as we saw last year but for the most part he's not a "closer" with this group. We looked so much more cohesive offensively without Jaylen clogging up the ball movement while if you took the names and numbers off the jersey tonight and told me that was Pat Connaughton out there instead of Hayward I would have probably believed you or at least thought twice before calling you a liar.

 

[lovegtm]

I agree with this. There will be nights when Rozier is on and can close out games as we saw last year but for the most part he's not a "closer" with this group. We looked so much more cohesive offensively without Jaylen clogging up the ball movement while if you took the names and numbers off the jersey tonight and told me that was Pat Connaughton out there instead of Hayward I would have probably believed you or at least thought twice before calling you a liar.

Definitely true wrt Hayward. At the same time, he seems to know what the deal is, and that he's not currently himself. Ideas for how to handle Jaylen? He's one of the top 5 young assets in the league (who isn't untoucheable), so they have to be careful to not tank that value, particularly if AD becomes available.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Definitely true wrt Hayward. At the same time, he seems to know what the deal is, and that he's not currently himself. Ideas for how to handle Jaylen? He's one of the top 5 young assets in the league (who isn't untoucheable), so they have to be careful to not tank that value, particularly if AD becomes available.

I don't think GM's are too worried about Jaylen or even Rozier. They recognize the tough situation these young players are in right now with so much redundancy at their positions with only one ball to go around. They have seen the growth curve of each under normal circumstances......it isn't like these guys suddenly got worse at basketball before even reaching their prime without extenuating circumstances like we have here.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Definitely true wrt Hayward. At the same time, he seems to know what the deal is, and that he's not currently himself. Ideas for how to handle Jaylen? He's one of the top 5 young assets in the league (who isn't untoucheable), so they have to be careful to not tank that value, particularly if AD becomes available.

The group that started was cohesive. Everything flowed better. Jaylen on the second unit with Hayward orchestrating and Rozier playing Kyrie seems like a no brainer too. This was progress.

Sure some regression to the mean didn't hurt either. But flow was great all game, the guys attacked the rim, and the defensive intensity was pretty awesome.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The group that started was cohesive. Everything flowed better. Jaylen on the second unit with Hayward orchestrating and Rozier playing Kyrie seems like a no brainer too. This was progress.

Sure some regression to the mean didn't hurt either. But flow was great all game, the guys attacked the rim, and the defensive intensity was pretty awesome.

Not to be the turd in the punchbowl but let's keep in mind that these encouraging offensive performances the past two games came against the leagues 5th and 6th worst defenses and Friday we will face the worst in Cleveland followed by Minnesota the 10th worst on Saturday. Of course it's good to look better even against the worse defenses but even Yi Jianlian scored against chairs.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Brad needs to look very, very seriously at using the Kyrie-Smart-Tatum-Morris-Horford lineup as his go-to. The defensive intensity and BBIQ is so high, everyone except Smart is a plus shooter, and Smart adds a lot of additional ball-handling options to let them give different looks and run varied sets.

The top 7 should be these 5 plus Brown and Hayward.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Not to be the turd in the punchbowl but let's keep in mind that these encouraging offensive performances the past two games came against the leagues 5th and 6th worst defenses and Friday we will face the worst in Cleveland followed by Minnesota the 10th worst on Saturday. Of course it's good to look better even against the worse defenses but even Yi Jianlian scored against chairs.

No doubt. And things would have been a lot tighter if that 3pt regression hadn't happened.

Winning the games that they're supposed to win is still progress.

Now if they can just find a way to the free throw line...

 

[lovegtm]

No doubt. And things would have been a lot tighter if that 3pt regression hadn't happened.

Winning the games that they're supposed to win is still progress.

Now if they can just find a way to the free throw line...

The key thing is that the defense finally looked like the Celtics defense. New Orleans actually shot really well from 3 (over 40% before garbage time iirc), so the Celtics could expect some regression from the opponent as well.

If they play defense like that, and have the energy and purpose carry over to the offensive end, they'll be really good. Brad clearly thinks Smart is the key to that, and I don't think he's wrong. I expect to see a lot of the Marcii in upcoming games.

 

[benhogan]

The top 7 should be these 5 plus Brown and Hayward.

from last nights post-game presser:
“Marcus (Smart) brings, and (Aron) Baynes, they bring such a level of grit to our group and I think that I wanted to see what that would look like with Marcus Smart in the starting lineup,” Stevens said.

Hopefully we'll always have some of that grit on the floor at all times. 40 minutes for Marcus last night.

 

[the moops]

The top 7 should be these 5 plus Brown and Hayward.

Those are the top 7 and have been for pretty much the entire year, haven't they?

 

[DJnVa]

Those are the top 7 and have been for pretty much the entire year, haven't they?

Yes, although Rozier is only playing like 90 seconds less per game than Smart.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

For everyone who wants to play Jaylen and GH together, I recall reading something last week that said that both of their numbers were way down when playing together.

As someone mentioned in the game thread, it's "obvious" that what Brad really needs to do is to sit one of the top 7 each game to keep everyone fresh.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Much like the NFL rule changes, the new NBA shot clock reset to 14 seconds as well as the league's emphasis on calling freedom of movement fouls has contributed to higher scoring.

Somewhere, the early to mid 1990s Knicks (and many of their contemporaries) weep and shake their fists at todays snowflake players.

SI just published an article on the pace of play and the effect of the 14 second reset here: https://www.si.com/nba/2018/11/27/offensive-rebound-14-second-shot-clock-steve-kerr-mike-dantoni-warriors-rockets-andre-Drummond.

Article concludes that the 14 second reset is adding over one possession per game.

Pace of play is adding not quite two extra possessions per game.

 

[Big John]

That Kyrie guy is ok at basketball too.

He was last night, especially moving without the ball.

 

[benhogan]

For everyone who wants to play Jaylen and GH together, I recall reading something last week that said that both of their numbers were way down when playing together.

As someone mentioned in the game thread, it's "obvious" that what Brad really needs to do is to sit one of the top 7 each game to keep everyone fresh.

Pairing high volume shooters launching 3s at 29% and 25% will do that.

GH is just going to take months to come back from that devastating injury. Throwing him into the starting lineup to start the season was forced, a complete blunder by Brad. Bringing him in off the bench to play against secondary units (builds confidence) and limit his minutes (lets him heal) is the right move. I'd expect slow, but steady improvement from Gordon as the season wears on.

The Jaylen situation is much more complicated, he looks completely unsure of himself. Jaylen was lost all pre-season and has played like garbage to open this year. His ball handling has not improved and neither has his FT shooting (which puts his 2017 40% 3pt shooting into question). He has sulked on defense and the bench. Brad is going to have to coach him more than the other guys. Will pairing Jaylen with Rozier make two wrongs into a right?

Pairing Smart and Irving looked good for many of the reasons listed above and the game thread. Kyrie noted after the game last night that Marcus' ball handling and initiating offense lessened Kyrie's wear and tear. I hope Brad just doesn't defer to Jaylen being the 'starter' with Kyrie.

Brad needs to have a discussion with Jaylen and manage his minutes as his role evolves.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Pairing high volume shooters launching 3s at 29% and 25% will do that.

GH is just going to take months to come back from that devastating injury. Throwing him into the starting lineup to start the season was forced, a complete blunder by Brad. Bringing him in off the bench to play against secondary units (builds confidence) and limit his minutes (lets him heal) is the right move. I'd expect slow, but steady improvement from Gordon as the season wears on.

The Jaylen situation is much more complicated, he looks completely unsure of himself. Jaylen was lost all pre-season and has played like garbage to open this year. His ball handling has not improved and neither has his FT shooting (which puts his 2017 40% 3pt shooting into question). He has sulked on defense and the bench. Brad is going to have to coach him more than the other guys. Will pairing Jaylen with Rozier make two wrongs into a right?

Pairing Smart and Irving looked good for many of the reasons listed above and the game thread. Kyrie noted after the game last night that Marcus' ball handling and initiating offense lessened Kyrie's wear and tear. I hope Brad just doesn't defer to Jaylen being the 'starter' with Kyrie.

Brad needs to have a discussion with Jaylen and manage his minutes as his role evolves.

What I saw last night--SSS of course--was twofold: much clearer role definition on offense and much better defensive effort. The latter is clearly influenced in part by the two Marci starting, but not likely the only reason. The role definition on offense was a greater revelation to me.

I think that Smart as "QB" on the first unit, with GH in the same role off the bench makes sense. Kyrie and Rozier running off screens worked. Morris/Tatum as second level also worked, as I suspect Brown would with the second unit (with Ojeleye). Al and Baynes setting screens and rolling on their respective units as well.

Brown and Hayward finding themselves while on the floor together hasn't been successful, sure. But with everyone having clear roles, it should work just fine. I'm giddy with optimism this morning.

If they go 10-10 over the next 20, feel free to shove this post up my ass. But it looked to me like shit clicked last night finally.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

What I saw last night--SSS of course--was twofold: much clearer role definition on offense and much better defensive effort. The latter is clearly influenced in part by the two Marci starting, but not likely the only reason. The role definition on offense was a greater revelation to me.

I think that Smart as "QB" on the first unit, with GH in the same role off the bench makes sense. Kyrie and Rozier running off screens worked. Morris/Tatum as second level also worked, as I suspect Brown would with the second unit (with Ojeleye). Al and Baynes setting screens and rolling on their respective units as well.

Brown and Hayward finding themselves while on the floor together hasn't been successful, sure. But with everyone having clear roles, it should work just fine. I'm giddy with optimism this morning.

If they go 10-10 over the next 20, feel free to shove this post up my ass. But it looked to me like shit clicked last night finally.

I like Smart on the floor with that unit as well but as I mentioned upthread the competition at this level dictates what you can and cannot do on the floor. I'm sure there were many Utah Jazz fans optimistic a few ago when they put up 132 against these Pelicans.

 

[lovegtm]

If they go 10-10 over the next 20, feel free to shove this post up my ass. But it looked to me like shit clicked last night finally.

Agree. Their two other signature wins, Toronto and Milwaukee, were the result of Kyrie going off and atrocious Bucks 3 point defense. This was the first game that felt like a blueprint for the best version of the Celtics as currently constructed.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Gorman announced on Toucher & Rich that he signed a 3-year extension.

We have some good news finally.

 

[Eagle3]

Gorman announced on Toucher & Rich that he signed a 3-year extension.

We have some good news finally.

Agreed, that is good news. What about Tommy? I know he's beloved by most, but I personally think it's time for him to hang it up. He's not adding a whole lot these days other than pointing out the free throw attempts when the Celts have taken fewer. I know he's reduced his schedule to only home games, and I get it that he'll be there until HE decides he's had enough. Just wondering if he has said anything about how much longer he's gonna go.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

In trades that will never happen: Jaylen Brown for Myles Turner.

Sabonis and Turner aren't the greatest pairing on the floor, and Jaylen looks like the odd man out.

Jaylen is under control for one more year though. Turner is a FA after this season. I doubt Indi would do it, but the Celtics would be a terror defensively.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

In trades that will never happen: Jaylen Brown for Myles Turner.

Sabonis and Turner aren't the greatest pairing on the floor, and Jaylen looks like the odd man out.

Jaylen is under control for one more year though. Turner is a FA after this season. I doubt Indi would do it, but the Celtics would be a terror defensively.

Ed Hillel hates this idea.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Ed Hillel hates this idea.

But what does BenHogan think?

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

But what does BenHogan think?

I think KOC, er I mean benhogan would agree with Ed. Bob Will/Big Sleep needs to get more run. Turner would eat into his potential minutes.

I remain unconvinced that Williams is ready for more than a few big club stretches here and there which is why the Cs are bringing him along slowly.

Back to your trade, I think its interesting but I think the Pacers, as much as they may value Brown, might balk. Turner's skillset is so hard to replace, even if he continues to struggle shooting from distance.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I think KOC, er I mean benhogan would agree with Ed. Bob Will/Big Sleep needs to get more run. Turner would eat into his potential minutes.

I remain unconvinced that Williams is ready for more than a few big club stretches here and there which is why the Cs are bringing him along slowly.

Back to your trade, I think its interesting but I think the Pacers, as much as they may value Brown, might balk. Turner's skillset is so hard to replace, even if he continues to struggle shooting from distance.

If Indy says, "ok, give us Williams + Brown for Turner", do you pull the trigger?

 

[benhogan]

I think KOC, er I mean benhogan would agree with Ed. Bob Will/Big Sleep needs to get more run. Turner would eat into his potential minutes.

I remain unconvinced that Williams is ready for more than a few big club stretches here and there which is why the Cs are bringing him along slowly.

Back to your trade, I think its interesting but I think the Pacers, as much as they may value Brown, might balk. Turner's skillset is so hard to replace, even if he continues to struggle shooting from distance.

bosox79/DeJesus, feel free to refer to me as the big, swinging KOC as many have in the past.

Turner? as a back up to Horford? How many minutes would he get? I'm not sure if the two of you have noticed but Brad likes to play small.

Turner already signed a large extension, but Bosox and DeJesus feel free to carry on with your trade drivel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-basketball-nba-ind-turner/pacers-turner-signs-four-year-72-million-extension-idUSKCN1MP2QN

 

[Cesar Crespo]

bosox79/DeJesus, feel free to refer to me as the big, swinging KOC as many have in the past.

Turner? as a back up to Horford? How many minutes would he get? I'm not sure if the two of you have noticed but Brad likes to play small.

Turner already signed a large extension, but Bosox and DeJesus feel free to carry on with your trade drivel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-basketball-nba-ind-turner/pacers-turner-signs-four-year-72-million-extension-idUSKCN1MP2QN

I checked spotrac and it wasn't on there. Nevermind then.

I'd have envision him starting alongside Horford at the beginning and end of games, and staggered else where. I'm guessing part of the reason Brad doesn't like playing big is because his bigs aren't that great. He's far more talented than our other bigs not named Horford. He also isn't necessarily looking for his offense, which would fit in well.

I just mentioned you because I know you were a fan of wanting to go bigger so thought maybe you'd be in favor of it... assuming Brad would play him alongside Al anyway.

That's a lot of blocked shots between the 2 and one would assume Turner will be closer to his career average at 3 (317 attempts isn't a big sample) so he wouldn't hurt spacing either. Turner/Horford/Tatum/Smart/Irving would be great defensively and you'd only have 2 guys really looking for their shots but only one guy who might be a shooting liability. That leaves a bench with Hayward running the offense with Morris, Rozier, Baynes etc. Turner isn't an "Indian" but he's also not a "chief." I think he'd help balance out the roster.

Moot point now, though.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

bosox79/DeJesus, feel free to refer to me as the big, swinging KOC as many have in the past.

Turner? as a back up to Horford? How many minutes would he get? I'm not sure if the two of you have noticed but Brad likes to play small.

Turner already signed a large extension, but Bosox and DeJesus feel free to carry on with your trade drivel.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-basketball-nba-ind-turner/pacers-turner-signs-four-year-72-million-extension-idUSKCN1MP2QN

Not my trade drivel Big Swinging KOC.

The only trade I would want the Cs to explore aside from the transaction that shall remain unnamed is a Draymond Green deal if he ever becomes available. And even then I am not sure whether I would do it.

In all seriousness, the only moves I see Boston making is moving Rozier for a middling draft asset and then finding another ball handler in a separate transaction (I don't see any one for one deals out there).

 

[Jimbodandy]

Not my trade drivel Big Swinging KOC.

The only trade I would want the Cs to explore aside from the transaction that shall remain unnamed is a Draymond Green deal if he ever becomes available. And even then I am not sure whether I would do it.

In all seriousness, the only moves I see Boston making is moving Rozier for a middling draft asset and then finding another ball handler in a separate transaction (I don't see any one for one deals out there).

Only downside to that Rozier trade as that we have cornered the market on middling draft assets. Like as of now, we have all of them.