CB Jack Jones Arrested at Logan for Having 2 Firearms in His Bag

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sodenj5

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tims4wins

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2nd strike against this guy, having been suspended late last season. Sucks because he seems talented but I’d be fine with the Pats cutting him.
 

BaseballJones

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I’ve never owned a gun but a number of times I’ve forgotten that I’ve had a knife in my backpack (not like a Crocodile Dundee knife but still…definitely a knife) and gone through TSA. They’ve always caught it and have confiscated it. Obviously I meant no harm with it but I just forgot it’s there. They’ve been right to take it and I just blame myself for my own forgetfulness. Yes this has happened a few times actually.

I have no idea what happened in Jones’s case but it wouldn’t at all be shocking to imagine him thinking he was going to check the bag, then at the airport thinking, forgetting he had guns in there, nah I’ll just carry it on instead. I’ve done THAT (minus the guns) a few times too.

But either way… holy cow not good.
 

21st Century Sox

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i think way too sloppy to be excused as forgetfulness. Guns need to be in hard sided luggage, locked, and UNLOADED. Even unloaded, you can't just toss in checked luggage like a pair of socks.
 

BaseballJones

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i think way too sloppy to be excused as forgetfulness. Guns need to be in hard sided luggage, locked, and UNLOADED. Even unloaded, you can't just toss in checked luggage like a pair of socks.
I know nothing about gun regulations. If it wasn’t forgetfulness, it seems there are two other possibilities: sheer stupidity (and/or ignorance of the laws) or some sort of malicious intent. What other options could there be?
 

rodderick

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i think way too sloppy to be excused as forgetfulness. Guns need to be in hard sided luggage, locked, and UNLOADED. Even unloaded, you can't just toss in checked luggage like a pair of socks.
Yeah, in my most charitable interpretation this demonstrates such a horrific lack of judgement I don't know how I can trust this kid going forward.
 

bluefenderstrat

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“25-year-old Jackie K. Jones of Arizona is facing several charges including possession of a concealed weapon in a secure area of an airport, possession of ammunition without a firearm identification card, unlawful possession of a firearm, carrying a loaded firearm, and possession of a large-capacity feeding device, according to police.”

This is not an oopsie, my bad type of deal.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/patriots-release-statement-on-jack-jones-arrest/ar-AA1cF1sX
 

pokey_reese

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I've only once checked a gun as luggage, and it was one of the more nerve-wracking moments of my time in airports. Walking up to the counter at Logan (post-9/11), and saying that you have a gun in earshot of a heavily-armed state trooper with a big dog isn't fun, but it's the process. There is extra paperwork and everything, you can't just 'forget' no matter how many times you have done it. On top of that, it says he doesn't have an FID card, AND had a high-capacity magazine?

The one thing that I can think of that might be mitigating for him, is that the laws are very different in different places. When I flew with a gun, I was headed to Missouri, where people open-carried and laws were very lax. I'm wondering if he bought his gun(s) and accessories in a state where the rules were different (and he was following them), and just wasn't experienced enough to know that when you travel with a firearm, you are subject to the laws of every jurisdiction you pass through. So maybe he didn't need a valid MA license and bought a legal mag where he started, and it became illegal when he landed at Logan. Of course, that also assumes that he didn't know you have to declare and check them on planes, but maybe he just never thought to check...
 

NickEsasky

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You guys are giving a lot of rope to a guy who dropped in the draft for being a known dumbass/problem.
 

Ferm Sheller

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The one thing that I can think of that might be mitigating for him, is that the laws are very different in different places.

How can this be true? Aren't these federal laws, not state? So, wouldn't they be applied equally everywhere?


EDIT: Oh I see what you're saying, but I don't think that's going to be mitigating for him.
 

Steve Dillard

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If he comes from a Red state, I guess he's used be being fully armed. So much so that when he comes up from his home to the OTAs for a week, he feels naked without a weapon for the week up here? I'll never understand that mentality. And how did he get it into Mass, did he drive up?
 

Ferm Sheller

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I think Aaron Hernandez puts the Pats in a tougher position here -- I think for that reason they're going to release/trade him.
 

Pesky Pole

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You guys are giving a lot of rope to a guy who dropped in the draft for being a known dumbass/problem.
I agree. I think he came here with one strike already so this will probably be it. Maybe one gun unloaded could be a mistake if we were really trying. But two guns, one loaded and no FID card plus the high magazine…we’ll have one less Jones later this weekend.
 

cornwalls@6

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Seems like he can’t keep his head out of his ass for very long, or learn from mistakes and apply it long term. Talented player, and losing him would be a ding to the roster. But I can’t imagine BB wants to deal with his BS for much longer.
 

Patriot_Reign

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View: https://twitter.com/boston25/status/1669902075847745550


Some of you guys seem cavalier about going through the TSA screenings. I don't even own any firearms but when I'm packing to fly I always take my carry on backpack & triple check every pocket/ space. Just paranoid of having something found like a knife that'll complicate going through that line.

Also, besides getting cut by the Pats by Monday he might be proper fucked. MA has a mandatory minimum jail sentence of 18 months for carrying firearms without having a FIC, even if it's a first time offense.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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You guys are giving a lot of rope to a guy who dropped in the draft for being a known dumbass/problem.
Yep.

This is the problem with gun ownership in America. The NRA was originally founded with a focus on firearm education. Specifically, that people not properly educated and trained should NOT own firearms. Obviously the NRA priorities have changed...

I seriously doubt any malicious intent. "I own these guns, I'm bringing them with me" is probably as deep as he thought about this. The dude thought he could bring them through the checkpoint and just say, "I own these. It's cool."

Pretty telling about what's going on in his head, but - despite people wanting to correlate "guns" with "evil" - probably not much of an indicator about his moral compass.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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View: https://twitter.com/boston25/status/1669902075847745550


Some of you guys seem cavalier about going through the TSA screenings. I don't even own any firearms but when I'm packing to fly I always take my carry on backpack & triple check every pocket/ space. Just paranoid of having something found like a knife that'll complicate going through that line.

Also, besides getting cut by the Pats by Monday he might be proper fucked. MA has a mandatory minimum jail sentence of 18 months for carrying firearms without having a FIC, even if it's a first time offense.
My understanding is he has a FIC card, he just wasn't carrying it on his person - also a nono, but not to the same degree. The 18 months is for having a firearm without being licensed.

Edit - I see he was charged with unlawful possession of a firearm. He may not own an FIC - still may not end up being 18 month minimum depending on what state he has listed as his primary residence.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Kind of different scenarios no?
I should have been clearer. Yes, at this point obviously different scenarios. However, if they keep Jones and he ends up shooting someone in the future, the narrative is going to be: "This asshole psychopath tried to bring guns, one of them loaded, onto an airplane and the Pats kept him anyway. Didn't they learn their lesson with Hernandez?"
 

Patriot_Reign

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My understanding is he has a FIC card, he just wasn't carrying it on his person - also a nono, but not to the same degree. The 18 months is for having a firearm without being licensed.

Edit - I see he was charged with unlawful possession of a firearm. He may not own an FIC - still may not end up being the same issue depending on what state he has his primary residence.
Oh fair. With the one charge about having ammo w/o a FIC I just assumed he didn't have one.
Yeah if he has a proper license to own a firearm in his own state that has reciprocity with MA it's not as bad.

Edit: Oops, wrong about that. MA doesn't share reciprocity with any other states (go figure).
 
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Kenny F'ing Powers

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Oh fair. With the one charge about having ammo w/o a FIC I just assumed he didn't have one.
Yeah if he has a proper license to own a firearm in his own state that has reciprocity with MA it's not as bad.

Edit: Oops, wrong about that. MA doesn't share reciprocity with any other states (go figure).
Correct.

In Mass, you need to have your LTC in possession for both ammo and firearm. So, even though it was one stupid decision, he's being charged with all of the crimes available (which I'm fine with...don't be an idiot).

I prefer the Pats keep him because he's a good player and this, while a dumb decision, was not violent or malicious. I also bet that all of these charges get knocked down and he won't see any jail time.

If the Pats cut him for PR purposes, I get it, especially with their history. But an NFL player being an idiot isn't the biggest surprise in the world. Barring any new info being released, he'll be playing large minutes for some NFL team this season.
 
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Justthetippett

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Yep.

This is the problem with gun ownership in America. The NRA was originally founded with a focus on firearm education. Specifically, that people not properly educated and trained should NOT own firearms. Obviously the NRA priorities have changed...

I seriously doubt any malicious intent. "I own these guns, I'm bringing them with me" is probably as deep as he thought about this. The dude thought he could bring them through the checkpoint and just say, "I own these. It's cool."

Pretty telling about what's going on in his head, but - despite people wanting to correlate "guns" with "evil" - probably not much of an indicator about his moral compass.
There are only so many times you can fuck up before you become a fuck up. This guy has talent and it's sad to see, but if I were Kraft I'd draw a firm line and part ways. Yeah, he'll probably end up in KC and excel, but it's not really worth the risk for the Pats.
 

cornwalls@6

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Correct.

In Mass, you need to have your FIC in possession for both ammo and firearm. So, even though it was one stupid decision, he's being charged with all of the crimes available (which I'm fine with...don't be an idiot).

I prefer the Pats keep him because he's a good player and this, while a dumb decision, was not violent or malicious. I also bet that all of these charges get knocked down and he won't see any jail time.

If the Pats cut him for PR purposes, I get it, especially with their history. But an NFL player being an idiot isn't the biggest surprise in the world. Barring any new info being released, he'll be playing large minutes for some NFL team this season.
Not sure him getting cut(if it happens) would be as much about PR, as it would be BB tired of dealing with an asshole who’s already been a problem in his short tenure here.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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I prefer the Pats keep him because he's a good player and this, while a dumb decision, was not violent or malicious. I also bet that all of these charges get knocked down and he won't see any jail time.

If the Pats cut him for PR purposes, I get it, especially with their history. But an NFL player being an idiot isn't the biggest surprise in the world. Barring any new info being released, he'll be playing large minutes for some NFL team this season.
I got tired of rooting for idiots just because they are good players. Trying to defend my teams’ dumb players in discussions with friends made my brain hurt.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I'm going to branch this out of my previous post because I think it may help inform some folks on what the current situation is:

Edit - I'm trying to find the specific language of the law in Mass, but by my recollection prior to moving out of Mass:

In order to carry/transport a firearm, Mass requires you to have your LTC (license to carry). The FID card is a standard license that requires basic safety courses and allows you to own the gun in your home. It is the bare minimum for gun ownership. FID owners do NOT have the right to transport or have it on their person in Mass without a LTC - which is an additional license that requires extra paperwork and process.

In order to carry It concealed - as Jones did - he needs a concealed carry LTC, which also has its own stipulations and varies by town/city. In Mass, many of the larger cities rarely issue concealed carry licenses unless for specific use cases. Smaller towns tend to be less stringent. (As an example, I had a job where I had to carry concealed firearms - that I needed a concealed carry license for my job was the only reason I was approved for a concealed carry LTC. Conversely, I had friends who had 5 minute interviews with town detectives, and were issued their conceal carry).

In many states, having the FID card is enough to do exactly what Jones did (other than the idiotic part of not checking the firearm prior to boarding). In Massachusetts, there are two more qualification levels needed prior to being able to carry concealed.

What we know - Jones was dumb and brought his gun through a security checkpoint. We DONT know the specifics. He very well may have had his FID card on his person (or not). In many states, this would be good enough to satisfy the laws of that state. Based on his tweets to Ja Morant, I assume he knows enough to have his FID, but missed the additional steps that vary by state.

But, in Mass, you also need a concealed carry permit to transport it in a bag. Again, This is NOT a standard law in every state. In Mass, there are also specific rules about having the gun loaded, not secured with a gun lock/case during transport, etc. I can't recall specifics, and they may or may not be at play here.

He 100% should have known to check his weapon. He also should have known Mass state laws regarding concealed carry, but he's nowhere near the first person to make this mistake. That's not to excuse it - again, I think I've been clear than if you own firearms you should know all the laws in your city and state regarding them - but it really isn't anywhere near as idiotic or malicious as the media is currently portraying.
 
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Kenny F'ing Powers

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Not sure him getting cut(if it happens) would be as much about PR, as it would be BB tired of dealing with an asshole who’s already been a problem in his short tenure here.
I got tired of rooting for idiots just because they are good players. Trying to defend my teams’ dumb players in discussions with friends made my brain hurt.
Read my post above. If you still feel that way, I get it. But, as always, there's a little more nuance to the situation.
 

sodenj5

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Gun transport laws are definitely confusing most of the times, but it should be pretty universally understood that throwing a loaded extended mag pistol into your bag isn’t going to fly literally anywhere.

I don’t think he was trying to smuggle the guns onto the plane for a nefarious act, but I do think he was insanely negligent in not understanding the basics of boarding an airplane with a pistol.
 

67YAZ

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Whoops had two loaded firearms in my carryon.

Is that how it works?
A friend of mine was senior counsel at the TSA for a number of years. He relayed that the most common excuse given for firearms in luggage is “my wife/girlfriend put them in there.” Which is pretty great whether true or not.

So maybe Jack is just having relationship problems.
 

Rico Guapo

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He's a fucking moron, bringing a loaded gun onto a plane is just insane. On top of it Massachusetts has some of the strictest firearms laws in the country, how could he not understand this? He's talented and they need him on the field but honestly I hope they cut him, this is inexcusable after the bullshit at the end of last season.
 

luckiestman

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He's a fucking moron, bringing a loaded gun onto a plane is just insane. On top of it Massachusetts has some of the strictest firearms laws in the country, how could he not understand this? He's talented and they need him on the field but honestly I hope they cut him, this is inexcusable after the bullshit at the end of last season.
A lot of others teams probably hope you cut him too, so you got that going for you.
 

Patriot_Reign

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Listening to 98.5 they also brought up that besides the FTC stuff having that large capacity mag is a big no-no and also carrying loaded firearms in an airport is a federal crime.

I think he's fucked.
 

luckiestman

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There is a very high probability he winds up in jail for a year plus, good luck to anyone who picks him up.
which forum does this wager go, I got 50 to charity that he does not go to jail for a year at even odds, so since you are saying high probability it’s a favorable bet for you
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm going to branch this out of my previous post because I think it may help inform some folks on what the current situation is:

Edit - I'm trying to find the specific language of the law in Mass, but by my recollection prior to moving out of Mass:

In order to carry/transport a firearm, Mass requires you to have your LTC (license to carry). The FID card is a standard license that requires basic safety courses and allows you to own the gun in your home. It is the bare minimum for gun ownership. FID owners do NOT have the right to transport or have it on their person in Mass without a LTC - which is an additional license that requires extra paperwork and process.

In order to carry It concealed - as Jones did - he needs a concealed carry LTC, which also has its own stipulations and varies by town/city. In Mass, many of the larger cities rarely issue concealed carry licenses unless for specific use cases. Smaller towns tend to be less stringent. (As an example, I had a job where I had to carry concealed firearms - that I needed a concealed carry license for my job was the only reason I was approved for a concealed carry LTC. Conversely, I had friends who had 5 minute interviews with town detectives, and were issued their conceal carry).

In many states, having the FID card is enough to do exactly what Jones did (other than the idiotic part of not checking the firearm prior to boarding). In Massachusetts, there are two more qualification levels needed prior to being able to carry concealed.

What we know - Jones was dumb and brought his gun through a security checkpoint. We DONT know the specifics. He very well may have had his FID card on his person (or not). In many states, this would be good enough to satisfy the laws of that state. Based on his tweets to Ja Morant, I assume he knows enough to have his FID, but missed the additional steps that vary by state.

But, in Mass, you also need a concealed carry permit to transport it in a bag. Again, This is NOT a standard law in every state. In Mass, there are also specific rules about having the gun loaded, not secured with a gun lock/case during transport, etc. I can't recall specifics, and they may or may not be at play here.

He 100% should have known to check his weapon. He also should have known Mass state laws regarding concealed carry, but he's nowhere near the first person to make this mistake. That's not to excuse it - again, I think I've been clear than if you own firearms you should know all the laws in your city and state regarding them - but it really isn't anywhere near as idiotic or malicious as the media is currently portraying.
We don’t know the basis for the unlawful possession charge. We don’t know his state of mind with respect to the fact that the guns were loaded. It could have been ignorance. It could have been “fuck it, I don’t care.” And he was also in possession of a loading device banned in the state, which is more than an I forgot my card problem.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Listening to 98.5 they also brought up that besides the FTC stuff having that large capacity mag is a big no-no and also carrying loaded firearms in an airport is a federal crime.

I think he's fucked.
I wouldn't rely on 98.5 for legal advice.

The large capacity mag is another one that varies by state. Usually people plead ignorance at court and, when properly lawyered up and famous, can probably work the charge down.

Carrying the firearm loaded doesn't appear to carry any significant federal charges. This guy got caught with a loaded firearm in his bag at a security checkpoint a few months ago. Because it was loaded, he only faced stiffer financial penalties than if it weren't loaded.
 

Rico Guapo

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I wouldn't rely on 98.5 for legal advice.

The large capacity mag is another one that varies by state. Usually people plead ignorance at court and, when properly lawyered up and famous, can probably work the charge down.

Carrying the firearm loaded doesn't appear to carry any significant federal charges. This guy got caught with a loaded firearm in his bag at a security checkpoint a few months ago. Because it was loaded, he only faced stiffer financial penalties than if it weren't loaded.
Gun laws in Virginia are much different than those in Massachusetts.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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We don’t know the basis for the unlawful possession charge. We don’t know his state of mind with respect to the fact that the guns were loaded. It could have been ignorance. It could have been “fuck it, I don’t care.” And he was also in possession of a loading device banned in the state, which is more than an I forgot my card problem.
Well, again, it may have nothing to do with forgetting his card. Simply that he thought he was adequately licensed with just the FID card.

The loading device issue is weird. Because the penalties vary wildly by state - some states it could have been legal, Mass could be a few years charge, New York views it as a misdemeanor - pleading ignorance and falling on the sword can very well lead to no jail time and stiffer financial fines.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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He was charged with state crimes at Logan, prior cases in other states don't apply here.
I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Please read the post I was replying to. 98.5 implied that loaded firearms in an airport carry stiff federal charges. I cited a recent federal incident that only increased the fine given and resulted in no jail time.

The state law situation is different than the federal one being discussed.
 

Patriot_Reign

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which forum does this wager go, I got 50 to charity that he does not go to jail for a year at even odds, so since you are saying high probability it’s a favorable bet for you
If he doesn't have a proper concealed carry license for Massachusetts he is going to prison, as mentioned before this state has a mandatory minimum of 18 months even if it's your first offense. There is no gray area here.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Well, again, it may have nothing to do with forgetting his card. Simply that he thought he was adequately licensed with just the FID card.

The loading device issue is weird. Because the penalties vary wildly by state - some states it could have been legal, Mass could be a few years charge, New York views it as a misdemeanor - pleading ignorance and falling on the sword can very well lead to no jail time and stiffer financial fines.
Yeah, though it occurs to me there are two things going on in this thread. One is wondering what kind of penalties he will face. I presume he will get a good lawyer who will have him prepared to say the right things. The prosecutor will have a high profile case and likely some concern that letting him off too easy will embolden nefarious guys to see if they can get guns through checkpoints. But I doubt he will be looking at hard time. Who knows, though — we need an MA criminal lawyer. And I imagine they take large clip laws more seriously in the blue states that have enacted them. Maybe they try to get some kind of plea to a crime that limits his possession in the future but without much jail. It’s also a federal crime — though not mere possession. He probably doesn’t qualify but you might get an FBI agent digging a bit to see how it was imported.

The other thing though that is going on in the thread is how we fans should judge him. And we just don’t know and will never know. My point was really on that second issue. It could all be ignorance and stupidity. Or it could be that he knew some of the requirements but didn’t give a shit or thought it wasn’t a big deal.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Please read the post I was replying to. 98.5 implied that loaded firearms in an airport carry stiff federal charges. I cited a recent federal incident that only increased the fine given and resulted in no jail time.

The state law situation is different than the federal one being discussed.
I don’t think there is a federal criminal statute relating to guns in airports unless the offender is otherwise in violation of federal firearm law. I could be wrong, but I think it is just state law.

There can be lots of federal consequences — like he might end up on a no fly list.
 
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