Brogdon to Boston for Theis/Nesmith/2023 1st

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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All kidding aside…..moving on from the Aaron relationship is best for both sides. If he’s ever going to be a late bloomer like a Gerald Green it sure as heck isn’t going to be here as we’re in productive veteran role player mode……not handing out unearned minutes to help develop a young player. This was a breakup made in heaven.
If nothing else it will give us a reason to flip on a Pacers game when they are down 20

Still in shock Brad knitted Theis + AN + a protected 1st into Brogdon while showering bonus money on the bench cheerleaders
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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Still in shock Brad knitted Theis + AN + a protected 1st into Brogdon while showering bonus money on the bench cheerleaders
I keep seeing this referenced but I didn’t get the details, how much did they(bench guys) get?
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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I believe ~2 million each for Stauskas, Morgan and Fitts to make the deal work...

have to like that part of it
Thanks. Remember our Nets guys and that hilarious photo op?they were getting a lot of cash to ride the bench. Wallace played a little.
 

Mooch

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Jul 15, 2005
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Just found out that Brogdon’s Mom lives right down the street from me.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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Just found out that Brogdon’s Mom lives right down the street from me.
Who was the female member who worked in the Boston school system and knew when certain players/free agents were looking into schools? She was either from SoSH or came from CelticsBlog into our private board. I should know this bc I met her and her boyfriend at Foxwoods one time. And wtf happened to Gerbil?
 

Humphrey

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Fun facts about Brogdon:

He has a master's degree in public policy
He has a charity that brings clean water to East Africa
He retains the first female NBA agent

This dude is woke. Sorry if that bothers you.
I doubt the most unwoke person would have a problem with any of that.
 

TripleOT

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Jul 4, 2007
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Who was the female member who worked in the Boston school system and knew when certain players/free agents were looking into schools? She was either from SoSH or came from CelticsBlog into our private board. I should know this bc I met her and her boyfriend at Foxwoods one time. And wtf happened to Gerbil?
IIRC, it was Petula.

I’ve been worrying that my memory is fading in my older age but I’m very pleased to have pulled this one out of it.
 

Imbricus

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So now they have to potentially bubble wrap Time Lord and Brogdon, to have them ready for the playoffs, and manage Horford's minutes smartly? I'm good with that, but I think they should be looking for a durable backup center now.

When I saw the headline on this trade "Celtics ship out five players, first-round draft pick, for Brogdon," I thought for sure Pritchard or Williams, or possibly both, were gone. I was amazed to find out we had sent out only a first rounder plus basically dryer lint. Hard to believe another team couldn't top that, but they might've been scared off by Brogdon's injury history.

I looked it up and found a short list of the injuries here. To me, the good news is that it's not the same injury, just getting progressively worse. It'll be interesting to see how the Celtics try to manage him, to prevent a rash of injuries next year. Early in the year, Ime tended to load up heavy minutes on guys, but he did get somewhat better later in the season.
 

TripleOT

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So now they have to potentially bubble wrap Time Lord and Brogdon, to have them ready for the playoffs, and manage Horford's minutes smartly? I'm good with that, but I think they should be looking for a durable backup center now.

When I saw the headline on this trade "Celtics ship out five players, first-round draft pick, for Brogdon," I thought for sure Pritchard or Williams, or possibly both, were gone. I was amazed to find out we had sent out only a first rounder plus basically dryer lint. Hard to believe another team couldn't top that, but they might've been scared off by Brogdon's injury history.

I looked it up and found a short list of the injuries here. To me, the good news is that it's not the same injury, just getting progressively worse. It'll be interesting to see how the Celtics try to manage him, to prevent a rash of injuries next year. Early in the year, Ime tended to load up heavy minutes on guys, but he did get somewhat better later in the season.
Send them both 35 minutes south to Foxboro, to the TB12 facility.
 

Cesar Crespo

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So now they have to potentially bubble wrap Time Lord and Brogdon, to have them ready for the playoffs, and manage Horford's minutes smartly? I'm good with that, but I think they should be looking for a durable backup center now.

When I saw the headline on this trade "Celtics ship out five players, first-round draft pick, for Brogdon," I thought for sure Pritchard or Williams, or possibly both, were gone. I was amazed to find out we had sent out only a first rounder plus basically dryer lint. Hard to believe another team couldn't top that, but they might've been scared off by Brogdon's injury history.

I looked it up and found a short list of the injuries here. To me, the good news is that it's not the same injury, just getting progressively worse. It'll be interesting to see how the Celtics try to manage him, to prevent a rash of injuries next year. Early in the year, Ime tended to load up heavy minutes on guys, but he did get somewhat better later in the season.
Top 12 (or was it 14) protected too, not that that will matter.

re Bigs: Bryant was rumored to be here but he's not exactly durable himself. He looked promising prior to his injury. Others on the board want Poeltl. That would require a trade. I'm not sure Poeltl would be too thrilled given he is in a contract year and he'd be taking a reduced role. If he was fine with it, I'd be on board with him too.
 

kazuneko

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re Bigs: Bryant was rumored to be here but he's not exactly durable himself. He looked promising prior to his injury. Others on the board want Poeltl. That would require a trade. I'm not sure Poeltl would be too thrilled given he is in a contract year and he'd be taking a reduced role. If he was fine with it, I'd be on board with him too.
Have we the reached the point in the NBA that we have to worry about Jacob Poetl’s feelings about being a backup on a title contender because he’s heading into a contact year? If a guy of his caliber quits on a championship-favored team because he wants more minutes on a bad team, who the heck would even want to sign him in free agency? The guy is not KD - if he gets a chance to play with the Cs his best play is working his ass off in the hope of making an impact in a title run and turning that into a more lucrative deal.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Have we the reached the point in the NBA that we have to worry about Jacob Poetl’s feelings about being a backup on a title contender because he’s heading into a contact year? If a guy of his caliber quits on a championship-favored team because he wants more minutes on a bad team, who the heck would even want to sign him in free agency? The guy is not KD - if he gets a chance to play with the Cs his best play is working his ass off in the hope of making an impact in a title run and turning that into a more lucrative deal.
I don't know if we reached that point but how many minutes would Poeltl get on a healthy C's team? Not sure how we match up salary wise anyway unless he's absorbed in to the TPE for a pick. If they can add Ryan and Thomas, it's easier but it would still require Grant. That would open up minutes for Poeltl anyway.

I think someone even mentioned Grant for Poeltl in another thread.
 

Euclis20

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Highlights from Timi:

View: https://youtu.be/lemDSQohmEw


Offensively, his drive and kick game will be a really good fit. Great opportunity for cutters when he attacks, and defensively, he seems to have a knack for stripping the ball when guys go up for jump shots (don't see that happen to Lebron too often).
 

Fishy1

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Nov 10, 2006
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They resigned Kornet, didn't they?

Just kidding, I know he's break-in-terms-of-emergency. Hopefully he doesn't see the floor for more than 100 minutes.
 

djbayko

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Highlights from Timi:

View: https://youtu.be/lemDSQohmEw


Offensively, his drive and kick game will be a really good fit. Great opportunity for cutters when he attacks, and defensively, he seems to have a knack for stripping the ball when guys go up for jump shots (don't see that happen to Lebron too often).
Thank god this has natural basketball audio instead of shitty music like the Gallinari video. I have no idea why so many people prefer that.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
30,228
IIRC, it was Petula.

I’ve been worrying that my memory is fading in my older age but I’m very pleased to have pulled this one out of it.
Yes! She was super cool as was the guy she was with who I believe also is/was a member. Nice recall!
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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Highlights from Timi:

View: https://youtu.be/lemDSQohmEw


Offensively, his drive and kick game will be a really good fit. Great opportunity for cutters when he attacks, and defensively, he seems to have a knack for stripping the ball when guys go up for jump shots (don't see that happen to Lebron too often).
I'm impressed at how well he processes the decision to score, dump-off, or kick out when he's driving. He's much more of a threat to score in the lane than Marcus, and it shows in how defenses react and the options he has.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I'm impressed at how well he processes the decision to score, dump-off, or kick out when he's driving. He's much more of a threat to score in the lane than Marcus, and it shows in how defenses react and the options he has.
Yeah, and he seems stronger and better balanced than White when driving. Unlike 97% of the league, he also doesn’t seem to feel it necessary to fall down on Every. Single. Drive.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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So now they have to potentially bubble wrap Time Lord and Brogdon, to have them ready for the playoffs, and manage Horford's minutes smartly? I'm good with that, but I think they should be looking for a durable backup center now.

When I saw the headline on this trade "Celtics ship out five players, first-round draft pick, for Brogdon," I thought for sure Pritchard or Williams, or possibly both, were gone. I was amazed to find out we had sent out only a first rounder plus basically dryer lint. Hard to believe another team couldn't top that, but they might've been scared off by Brogdon's injury history.

I looked it up and found a short list of the injuries here. To me, the good news is that it's not the same injury, just getting progressively worse. It'll be interesting to see how the Celtics try to manage him, to prevent a rash of injuries next year. Early in the year, Ime tended to load up heavy minutes on guys, but he did get somewhat better later in the season.
Thanks for posting that list of injuries to Brogdon. Achilles seems worrisome but at least he came back and played in multiple games in March last year (although he missed a couple of games with a concussion).

As you mention, with TL and Brogdon needing special care plus keeping Horford fresh for a playoff push, the medical staff might have to be next year's MVPs for the Cs to go all of the way. :)
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Aug 23, 2008
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I honestly think the minutes management will kind of take care of itself.

If—and maybe it’s a big if—they are healthy, remain motivated, and the new guys blend in well, they are going to roll teams putting out regular season effort. The defensive scheme is built to destroy teams that aren’t ready bring max effort, and the offense should be more consistent with Brogdon + a deeper bench + that same regular season intensity they’ll face.

The non-Tatum minutes should be much smoother this year, which is going to lead to more comfortable wins and more Gino time.
 

JakeRae

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Jul 21, 2005
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I honestly think the minutes management will kind of take care of itself.

If—and maybe it’s a big if—they are healthy, remain motivated, and the new guys blend in well, they are going to roll teams putting out regular season effort. The defensive scheme is built to destroy teams that aren’t ready bring max effort, and the offense should be more consistent with Brogdon + a deeper bench + that same regular season intensity they’ll face.

The non-Tatum minutes should be much smoother this year, which is going to lead to more comfortable wins and more Gino time.
Agreed. I also don’t think there’s a big minutes problem. Hopefully with more depth and the lesson of this years’s finals, we load manage aggressively next year. Between injuries, rest days, and the need to just generally manage minutes of Horford, Timelord, Gallinari, and Brogdon for healthy/age reasons, there should be enough minutes for everyone.

I also think Brogdon off the bench makes sense. His health struggles may benefit from a reduced role and I also think we want him playing every minute Tatum sits. He is likely part of our closing lineup as well. 25-30 mpg off the bench is likely the best use of him on this team.
 

bigq

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I'm impressed at how well he processes the decision to score, dump-off, or kick out when he's driving. He's much more of a threat to score in the lane than Marcus, and it shows in how defenses react and the options he has.
Out of curiosity how would one quantify Brogdon as more of a threat to score in the lane than Marcus?

The way I looked at it was by % of FGA by Distance and FG% by Distance. The lane extends from the basket to the free throw line which is a 15'x16' rectangle.
  • For the 2021-22 season 58% of Brogdon's shots were taken from within 16' vs 47% for Smart. Brogdon is clearly more likely to take shots from the lane than Marcus and this also plays out across their respective careers.
  • Brogdon gets to the rim at a much higher rate than Smart and over the course of his career converts there at a better rate than Smart as well. However Smart was really good at converting from 0-3' this past season and has a couple of seasons where he has been better than Brogdon. With the SSS caveat an argument could be made that Smart is in fact a better finisher at the rim than Brogdon however Smart's game has higher variance.
  • Smart takes a higher % of his shots from 3-16' than Brogdon. I have a hard time drawing conclusions about which of the two is a better shooter from that range. They seem generally similar to me with Smart a bit better at 3-10' and Brogdon a bit better at 10-16' however in the 2021-22 season they flipped in that regard.
I think I have convinced myself that I agree with your comment that Brogdon is more of a threat to score in the lane because that is a bigger part of his game relative to Smart. However I think an argument could be made that Smart's lane game is more effective than Brogdon in terms of FG% in which case perhaps Smart should work on developing his lane game including upping his attempts from there.

Maybe there is a better way to look at this than the above?

In any case, I'm thrilled with the addition of Brogdon and I can't wait for the season to start again.

52880
52881
 

lovegtm

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Out of curiosity how would one quantify Brogdon as more of a threat to score in the lane than Marcus?

The way I looked at it was by % of FGA by Distance and FG% by Distance. The lane extends from the basket to the free throw line which is a 15'x16' rectangle.
  • For the 2021-22 season 58% of Brogdon's shots were taken from within 16' vs 47% for Smart. Brogdon is clearly more likely to take shots from the lane than Marcus and this also plays out across their respective careers.
  • Brogdon gets to the rim at a much higher rate than Smart and over the course of his career converts there at a better rate than Smart as well. However Smart was really good at converting from 0-3' this past season and has a couple of seasons where he has been better than Brogdon. With the SSS caveat an argument could be made that Smart is in fact a better finisher at the rim than Brogdon however Smart's game has higher variance.
  • Smart takes a higher % of his shots from 3-16' than Brogdon. I have a hard time drawing conclusions about which of the two is a better shooter from that range. They seem generally similar to me with Smart a bit better at 3-10' and Brogdon a bit better at 10-16' however in the 2021-22 season they flipped in that regard.
I think I have convinced myself that I agree with your comment that Brogdon is more of a threat to score in the lane because that is a bigger part of his game relative to Smart. However I think an argument could be made that Smart's lane game is more effective than Brogdon in terms of FG% in which case perhaps Smart should work on developing his lane game including upping his attempts from there.

Maybe there is a better way to look at this than the above?

In any case, I'm thrilled with the addition of Brogdon and I can't wait for the season to start again.

View attachment 52880
View attachment 52881
I mean, his increased threat in the paint jumps off the tape in terms of how teams react to him, and the passes that opens up.

Out of the numbers you presented, the most relevant one is Brogdon's much higher rate of shots taken in the lane and at the rim. In the NBA, just getting the shots says a lot, regardless of minor variation in how you finish them.

The other thing you can see easily in film, and could try to quantify, is that Marcus rarely gets "quality" self-created layup attempts. That's already mostly reflected in his lower rate of getting to the rim, however.
 

Euclis20

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MB reminds me of Andre Miller, with more offense and a better shot.
I can see that. He always seems under control and just a bit bigger than the guys guarding him.

I'd happily trade some of that offense for Miller's durability. Aside from famously playing into his 40s, Miller missed 6 total games in his first 14 seasons. He didn't miss more than 2 games in a single season until age 37. Without doing any research, I'd say he was the most durable player of the last 20 years.
 
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nighthob

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Didn't we trade the Miller pick for Vitaly?
Yes, complete with Pitino’s embarrassing remark (when asked why he’d put no protections on the pick), “We’re going to be playing in the playoffs, we don’t care about the pick.”

For the record though, there’s a Chris Wallace quote somewhere about the guy that Boston would have drafted and it wasn’t ‘Dre. It was Matrix.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think MB is more than a step behind the whole Celtics' starting 5 in terms of athleticism.

But he is a very skilled offensive player who does a wide range of things the Celtics need: handle, ability to get into the lane and score/dish, catch and shoot. poise. Especially against Golden State, the Celtics lack of poise killed them as much as any other limitation.

In the best case scenario, adding MB will have a ripple effect on the team. Adding one poised, highly skilled offensive player will give the others more opportunity to play with poise, the lack of which was their kryptonite in the '22 Finals.

The worst case scenario is either that he spends most of the year out injured and slowed by injuries or, for some reason, his game doesn't mesh with what Ime wants to do. (But, really, if the latter is true then Ime needs to adjust to make it work.)
 

kazuneko

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As much as I love this trade the big question mark is MB's Achilles. I'm not sure if anyone else has better info, but from what I can tell his Achilles soreness has been a repeated issue, that has again and again left him missing extended stretches of game time. One concern seems to also be that he is at risk of rupturing his Achilles if he he isn't handled carefully, and while Durant has done remarkably well with his recovery, I still remember that injury being called the "worst injury in basketball" after he initially got hurt.
So while it seems like we all love MB the basketball player, I was wondering what people (particularly SOSH members with more medical knowledge) think of MB the orthopedic patient..
 
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Eddie Jurak

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As much as I love this trade the big question mark is MB's Achilles. I'm not sure if anyone else has better info, but from what I can tell his Achilles soreness has been a repeated issue, that has again and again left him missing extended stretches of game time. One concern seems to also be that he is at risk of rupturing his Achilles if he he isn't handled carefully, and while Durant has done remarkably well with his recovery, I still remember that injury being called the "worst injury in basketball" after he initially got hurt.
So while it seems like we all love MB the basketball player, I was wondering what people (particularly SOSH members with more medical knowledge) think of MB the orthopedic patient..
Well, he's got to pass a physical for the deal to go through. I agree it is a legit cause for concern.
 

Imbricus

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I thought this was interesting, a "rival GM" talking about Brogdon on Heavy.com:
“The knock against him coming out of college is that he had terrible knees,” a rival general manager told Heavy. “I mean, some of the examinations were really suspect in terms of how long his lower body would be able to take NBA pounding. So that’s why he ended up going in the second round, because he was damn near red-flagged.

“So the fact of the matter is he’s probably better off coming off the bench with limited minutes, trying to be impactful in 18 rather than trying to play 30 and always being injured. The question becomes how he’ll accept that.”
Of course "rival GMs" quoted anonymously can be guilty of anything -- ordinary sniping, sour grapes, or whatever -- but this GM does seem to like Brogdon, judging from his comments overall. But this does lend support to the chatter that there just wasn't much of a market this year for Brogdon because of injury concerns. It does seem odd that, if you look at his injury history, "bad knees" doesn't really jump out. I mean, it's on the list with many other things, but it doesn't seem like a major recurring theme. And almost all NBA players, it seems, will have a knee issue at some point.

Maybe I imperfectly remember that draft, but I don't recall people expressing concerns about Brogdon's knees. I was under the impression he was drafted second round because he was so old for his draft class.
 

128

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I thought this was interesting, a "rival GM" talking about Brogdon on Heavy.com:

Of course "rival GMs" quoted anonymously can be guilty of anything -- ordinary sniping, sour grapes, or whatever -- but this GM does seem to like Brogdon, judging from his comments overall. But this does lend support to the chatter that there just wasn't much of a market this year for Brogdon because of injury concerns. It does seem odd that, if you look at his injury history, "bad knees" doesn't really jump out. I mean, it's on the list with many other things, but it doesn't seem like a major recurring theme. And almost all NBA players, it seems, will have a knee issue at some point.

Maybe I imperfectly remember that draft, but I don't recall people expressing concerns about Brogdon's knees. I was under the impression he was drafted second round because he was so old for his draft class.
His feet were the problem, not his knees. He missed the end of his freshman season at UVA and all of the next season after having foot surgery. There was some concern initially that he might never play again.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Injuries are obviously a legit concern with Brogdon - all you really need is to look at his history. It's part of why he should be accepting of a bench role.
 

Imbricus

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