Brian Flores suing NFL, Giants over "sham" Rooney rule - "mistakenly" (?) sent Belichick text may be linchpin

[singaporesoxfan]

Shot himself in the foot... I mean he's exposing some pretty transparently racist things in this complaint. Are you saying he should have just swallowed it and be glad for what he was given?

To that point, Flores knows what he's doing: "God has gifted me with a special talent to coach the game of football, but the need for change is bigger than my personal goals. In making the decision to file the class action complaint, I understand that I may be risking coaching the game I love."

View: https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1488622324488314880?s=20&t=zRbJlMaYt7sRbFyH2Wb4sQ


If he lost the Saints and Texans jobs and filed the suit then, then people would say he's just having sour grapes. He looks much better here doing it now.

 

[pappymojo]

I wonder what the Giants texts to Bill say? "We're interviewing Brian just to get around the Rooney rule but keep that between us" is different from "We're hiring Brian but keep that quiet."

I think the implication is that Belichick knew the Giants were hiring Daboll before the Giants interview with Flores even took place. So, the Giants interview with Flores was a sham.

 

[Jinhocho]

It's also not clear if Bill was actually texting the wrong Brian, or if he misread the information that was sent to him in the first place. I'm curious what prompted Flores to ask the question though.

Also, I disagree that Flores looks bad here. If what he says is true, he was fired essentially for refusing to tank and refusing to violate league recruiting rules. He had an owner that completely undermined what he was trying to do, and then fired him, not in spite of his success, but because of it. If anything, the fact that he filed this suit after learning of the Daboll news, but while still a candidate for other jobs, speaks in his favor. Enough is enough, regardless of what it does to his career.

Fired for refusing to do the owner's bidding/unethical crap is far different than racism. I think Flores was/is one of the hottest names on the market this year. I can understand the Giants wanting Daboll (hottest OC on market/QB whisperer) versus Flores (DC/just fired), but I skimmed the complaint and it is like napalm. My sense is he would have had offers this year AND even if he had not taken one and come back to NE or did something else he would still be a hot name on the market next year. The guy did a great job in New England and a good to great job in Miami.

Kind of ironic he won too much in year one and likely fired for a losing skid in year 3...

 

[Ed Hillel]

I'm deeply amused that Flores somehow sussed out that Belichick was referring to a different Brian. He was either tipped off that the Giants were only interviewing him as a sham, or he knew that Belichick struggles with modern technology. Or both.

ORRRRR, BB wants to set fire to the league and he and Flores planned these texts out to make it look like an accident, while also providing ammo for Flores .

 

[cshea]

I'm deeply amused that Flores somehow sussed out that Belichick was referring to a different Brian. He was either tipped off that the Giants were only interviewing him as a sham, or he knew that Belichick struggles with modern technology. Or both.

It's probably Bill's mention of Buffalo that tipped Flores off that Bill was talking to the wrong Brian.

Edit: @Super Nomario had it first

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

Yeah, this makes sense. His Giants contact could've texted him "We're hiring Brian" and he thought Flores, not Daboll.

I think that's what happened -- that's the best theory.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I'm deeply amused that Flores somehow sussed out that Belichick was referring to a different Brian. He was either tipped off that the Giants were only interviewing him as a sham, or he knew that Belichick struggles with modern technology. Or both.

I think Bill referencing that he heard from the Bills (why would the Bills know anything about Flores’ prospects?), the fact he shares a first name with Daboll, and the fact his interview with the Giants wasn’t for three more days were big tip offs.

 

[Mooch]

This could be Deshaun Watson too, right?

That's immediately who I thought of.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think the implication is that Belichick knew the Giants were hiring Daboll before the Giants interview with Flores even took place. So, the Giants interview with Flores was a sham.

Yeah it seems pretty likely that Bill was told that they were hiring Brian, and whether he thought that meant Flores, or he meant to text Daboll (more likely since he was told by both BUF and NYG sources), he sent out a congrats text. Flores hadn't even interviewed, so he thought it unlikely he was a lock, and maybe noticed the BUF reference.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

I am with those that think this might be career suicide for Flores akin to Colin Kaepernick, and that Flores just like Kaep is 100% right in what he's doing and correct about the actions against him.

I think this will likely end in a very similar large undisclosed settlement, but I fear this is the last of Flores in the NFL, which would be an epic shame.

 

[GreyisGone]

I’m sympathetic to Flores’ broader point and the Rooney rule is clearly a sham. That said, most of this reads like a good tell-all book as opposed to a lawsuit. Broncos leadership showed up late and drunk? Ok. Old man who confused which Brian he was talking to’s word should be taken as gospel? Ok. The Dolphins stuff is interesting but doesn’t seem Rooney Rule related.

 

[BigJimEd]

Brady was officially a free agent in March 2020 when his Pats contract expired, so any contact with any team before then would be not permitted. The complaint says "at the end of the 2019 season" which could mean late 2019 or into 2020.

Actually it says "After the end of the 2019 season." If it was Brady, I doubt the Dolphins were the only team recruiting Brady before the "legal" tampering period.

The tanking bit should get the Miami organization in hot water but with the NFL who knows.

Hats off to Flores. Gutsy move.

 

[sodenj5]

B Flo was a fiery competitor at BC when I was there. NFL better be ready for a fight. He’s gonna bring it.

He’s going to have a hell of a time proving in a court of law that the Giants interviewed him to satisfy the Rooney Rule requirement when the Giants interviewed two other minority candidates.

Edit: I may be wrong here. The Rooney Rule was changed and all teams have to interview two external minority candidates, so Frazier is one and Graham doesn’t apply. Flores’s interview would be the second to satisfy the rule, assuming he interviewed after Frazier.

 

[Awesome Fossum]

At the very least, this probably is the beginning of the end for the Rooney Rule. A noble enough idea, but one that has proven unsuccessful in its original goal and one that comes with wicked unintended consequences.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Bill thought Flores deserved it, found out Daboll got it before Flores was interviewed, and devised a game plan that can take its place next to the 1990 Giants and 2001 Patriots. The Brian Brian thing gave him the perfect opening. GOAT.

SOMEONE POST ORANGE JUICE

At the very least, this probably is the beginning of the end for the Rooney Rule. A noble enough idea, but one that has proven unsuccessful in its original goal and one that comes with wicked unintended consequences.

SCOTUS is about to nuke Affirmative Action, so they can ride the back of that ruling.

 

[ngruz25]

I think Bill referencing that he heard from the Bills (why would the Bills know anything about Flores’ prospects?), the fact he shares a first name with Daboll, and the fact his interview with the Giants wasn’t for three more days were big tip offs.

Ohhh yeah, the Bills connection. Good point. That also reinforces that Belichick probably did text the wrong person, not that he misread his text, because why would a Bills source be telling him stuff about Brian Flores and the Giants?

This part of the story is slapstick funny.

 

[slamminsammya]

There is no scandal involving NFL owners that would surprise me. They have to be the worst group of owners in all sports.

 

[Rico Guapo]

Ohhh yeah, the Bills connection. Good point. That also reinforces that Belichick probably did text the wrong person, not that he misread his text, because why would a Bills source be telling him stuff about Brian Flores and the Giants?

This part of the story is slapstick funny.

Why would the Bills tell a division rival about where their OC was going to take a HC gig?

 

[jacklamabe65]

Brian Flores just took a knee - so to speak.

 

[Gash Prex]

Didn't we all know that the Giants wanted Daboll? Seemed like it was pretty common knowledge -

I'm not sure where the intersection of the Rooney Rule and having a preferred candidate come in (ie, Sean Payton would be hired in Dallas). Its always made me uncomfortable because it just seemed like token minority candidate interviews in certain situations.

I think its good that Brian Flores is shining a light on this issue - and I hope the Pats would always consider having him as a coach in whatever capacity.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

In terms of whether or not Flores nuked his career here, the owners only give a shit about the league's reputation insofar as it impacts their individual franchise or TV ratings. This isn't going to impact TV ratings even a little. None of them outside of Ross and Mara care about the Dolphins or Giants taking a hit here and none of them are going to hire Flores because they want to make the league look less racist. And more than a few of them will never hire Flores because they are either full-fledged or casual racists to begin with, and now they probably think Flores is the uppity black guy airing the league's dirty laundry instead of being grateful that Ross gave him a job to begin with. It is hard enough for minority candidates to get these jobs in the first place, I think this without a doubt decreases his chances of getting another head coaching job in the league.

Ross offering him money to tank games is something. Flores absolutely understands how rare these opportunities are, particularly for a black coach. Your owner offering you money to lose, and then getting pissed at you for winning games when this might be your only shot is some fucked up shit.

Edit: Clarity

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Why would the Bills tell a division rival about where their OC was going to take a HC gig?

The NFL isn’t a big world, a guy like Bill - who knows people everywhere - is gonna talk about these things with his network. What difference does it make to the Bills’ competitive position if someone Bill knows inside their org tells him they heard Daboll is the choice?

 

[Mooch]

View: https://twitter.com/schadjoe/status/1488628192369942529?s=20&t=sEI9szSwMGcH5K_YwVZDcA

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I am with those that think this might be career suicide for Flores akin to Colin Kaepernick, and that Flores just like Kaep is 100% right in what he's doing and correct about the actions against him.

I think this will likely end in a very similar large undisclosed settlement, but I fear this is the last of Flores in the NFL, which would be an epic shame.

Yup. I give Flores a lot of respect for doing this, in part because he's not getting another job.

The NFL is run by 32 white billionaires who consider themselves completely unaccountable to anybody else and will be perfectly happy to close ranks and implicitly collude to never hire Flores again, just like they did with Kaepernick.

 

[Carmine Hose]

How did he torpedo it? That errant text may set fire to the NFL and I am here for it.

That text is likely what spurred the lawsuit, and the rest of the info is filler.

 

[deanx0]

Fired for refusing to do the owner's bidding/unethical crap is far different than racism. I think Flores was/is one of the hottest names on the market this year. I can understand the Giants wanting Daboll (hottest OC on market/QB whisperer) versus Flores (DC/just fired), but I skimmed the complaint and it is like napalm. My sense is he would have had offers this year AND even if he had not taken one and come back to NE or did something else he would still be a hot name on the market next year. The guy did a great job in New England and a good to great job in Miami.

Kind of ironic he won too much in year one and likely fired for a losing skid in year 3...

Perhaps we as fans and the football media thought Brian was a hot name, but maybe the perception is different among the only 32 people that ultimately matter in this discussion--the owners. If Ross was quietly burying him with those owners with openings, maybe Flores never had a chance.

 

[Gash Prex]

Yup. I give Flores a lot of respect for doing this, in part because he's not getting another job.

The NFL is run by 32 white billionaires who consider themselves completely unaccountable to anybody else and will be perfectly happy to close ranks and implicitly collude to never hire Flores again, just like they did with Kaepernick.

Do you really think that Kraft would blacklist him? I really don't think so

 

[pappymojo]

I will say that I have really come around on Flores as a coach. I was initially skeptical when we got word that the Dolphins were going to hire him in the 2018 season. He wasn't the Defensive Coordinator in that season and it was a little unclear who was in charge of the defense. Was it Belichick? Was it Flores? Was it something that Patricia had built the year prior. I made a shitty post about him as a coach, and then the defense really came together including the Rams Super Bowl where the defense was dominant, and I quickly realized that I was an idiot.

I feel like he did a really good job with the Dolphins. It seemed like they overcame a lot of injuries under him as a coach. They were always fighting. They never seemed like a team that didn't care or like a team that was coasting or going through the motions.

I would love to have him back in the Patriots organization.

 

[YTF]

This is career suicide for Flores. I hope I’m wrong.

There comes a time in life where certain issues are given a higher priority. I think many of us would agree that the "Rooney Rule" was well intended when it was first implemented and I think we would also agree that it's since become a convenient work around.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Do you really think that Kraft would blacklist him? I really don't think so

Put it this way. Do I think Kraft would break with the other 31 owners and hire him if they wanted him out of the game? Absolutely not.

 

[cshea]

View: https://twitter.com/schadjoe/status/1488628192369942529?s=20&t=sEI9szSwMGcH5K_YwVZDcA

It has to be Brady. Flores was in New England in some capacity for 15 years of Brady's career. What other prominent QB would Flores have a connection too and be in a position to tamper?

 

[Red Averages]

This seems way more damning of the Dolphins (paid to lose and tampering?!?!) vs the giants wanting another coach more and decisions they were likely moving forward before all interviews were conducted.

 

[E5 Yaz]

It has to be Brady. Flores was in New England in some capacity for 15 years of Brady's career. What other prominent QB would Flores have a connection too and be in a position to tamper?

Add in that Ross is Michigan's sugar daddyy, and Brady went to Michigan

 

[Super Nomario]

He’s going to have a hell of a time proving in a court of law that the Giants interviewed him to satisfy the Rooney Rule requirement when the Giants interviewed two other minority candidates.

Edit: I may be wrong here. The Rooney Rule was changed and all teams have to interview two external minority candidates, so Frazier is one and Graham doesn’t apply. Flores’s interview would be the second to satisfy the rule, assuming he interviewed after Frazier.

Per the Rooney Rule the interviews have to be in-person. Belichick texted Flores before Flores or Frazier met in person with NYG brass. Frazier had met virtually and Graham and Flores had not yet interviewed. Here's the timeline:

1/21 GM Joe Schoen hired
1/21 Brian Daboll 1st interview (virtual)
1/22 Leslie Frazier 1st (virtual)
1/23 Lou Anarumo 1st (virtual)
1/24 Belichick text, Dan Quinn 1st
1/25 Daboll 2nd
1/26 Patrick Graham 1st
1/27 Brian Flores 1st
1/28 Leslie Frazier 2nd
1/30 Daboll named HC

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Giants statement.

View: https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/1488624676431609861?s=20&t=RBTBfi7S4fSFamoaulMK7g

 

[moondog80]

I'm not sure where the intersection of the Rooney Rule and having a preferred candidate come in (ie, Sean Payton would be hired in Dallas). Its always made me uncomfortable because it just seemed like token minority candidate interviews in certain situations.

Isn't the idea that yes, sometimes a team will more or less know who they want before the process begins, but going through the interview is good experience and helps elevate the names of minority coaches. That's how I've understood it. Whether or not that happened here is another story.

 

[epraz]

I'm not a litigator, but I don't think I've ever seen a complaint that led with an epigraph (let alone 2).

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

If he is burning down a chance at another job, why wouldn't the Patriots just re-hire him? Hell he could be the succession plan.

I wonder if it means Flores will return to NE as DC, and as the new HC in waiting with Josh now gone.

BB strikes again. "Helps" torpedo Flores head coaching prospects and brings him back as DC.

I can't imagine BB is very happy that a private text message that makes him look a little foolish is one of the more material pieces of evidence in a legal case. It pisses off the owners, the league, and is going to - at a minimum - at least be at an arms length from being involved with a lengthy legal battle.

I'd think hes kind of pissed at Flores.

 

[DJnVa]

That text is likely what spurred the lawsuit, and the rest of the info is filler.

Yes, but Flores released it not BB.

But we may be splitting hairs over what you meant. I think we actually agree.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Isn't the idea that yes, sometimes a team will more or less know who they want before the process begins, but going through the interview is good experience and helps elevate the names of minority coaches. That's how I've understood it. Whether or not that happened here is another story.

That is indeed the theory behind it (the exposure and the interview experience is valuable in and of itself). I agree with that sentiment, but it falls down if the minority coaches start to feel like they don't actually have a chance. The interviews have to be legit.

 

[Jinhocho]

Yup. I give Flores a lot of respect for doing this, in part because he's not getting another job.

The NFL is run by 32 white billionaires who consider themselves completely unaccountable to anybody else and will be perfectly happy to close ranks and implicitly collude to never hire Flores again, just like they did with Kaepernick.

Kap was largely toast when he took his stand (arguably). I think (arguably) Flores was clearly on the way up and not down in his career. It is also fair to say a young NFL Coach is a lot more of a fungible resource than a upper level NFL QB.

 

[Gash Prex]

Isn't the idea that yes, sometimes a team will more or less know who they want before the process begins, but going through the process is good experience and helps elevate the names of minority coaches. That's how I've understood it. Whether or not that happened here is another story.

I think that's always been the argument - and I think its probably not a bad idea in theory, but as alleged here in reality it plays out differently.

Also, people seem to be glossing over the fact that Flores is essentially claiming Ross was trying to fix NFL games ...

 

[Mystic Merlin]

And why would Flores need attention? He was just fired from a job he held for three years, people know who he is and many see him as a good coach.

He’s in a totally different situation than guys like McDaniel (SF) and Mayo, who benefit from getting interviews in terms of getting on the NFL radar.

 

[cshea]

The key piece of evidence that we're missing is what Bill's Buffalo and NYG sources texted to him. Was it "Brian Daboll is our guy, we're working out the details" or was it something like "we're leaining towards Daboll." If it's the latter, the Giants will just say Belichick jumped the gun with the congratuatory text.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Actually it says "After the end of the 2019 season." If it was Brady, I doubt the Dolphins were the only team recruiting Brady before the "legal" tampering period.

The tanking bit should get the Miami organization in hot water but with the NFL who knows.

Hats off to Flores. Gutsy move.

Thanks for that correction. Still, it's a filing by Flores' attorneys, so the phraseology is mushy. End of the regular season? After the Super Bowl? Or later? Per the NFL the 2019 season officially ended in March 2020. In Brady's case at least, it would not be illegal contact unless it's happening before his old contract expired.

 

[Bongorific]

The key piece of evidence that we're missing is what Bill's Buffalo and NYG sources texted to him. Was it "Brian Daboll is our guy, we're working out the details" or was it something like "we're leaining towards Daboll." If it's the latter, the Giants will just say Belichick jumped the gun with the congratuatory text.

Or, “we’re making an offer to Brian.”

 

[mulluysavage]

Tell 'em Flo! Speak the truth! BF for next HC of NEP!

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

It seems like there are two plausible interpretations of the texts:

1) Bill hears that the Giants are hiring "Brian," thinks it's Flo, and tells Flo, only to realize that he was confused about which Brian the Giants had decided to hire.

2) Bill hears the Giants are hiring Daboll, tries to text Daboll, but accidentally text Flo, congratulating him.

Both would be fuck ups. But if it's the second one it's the fuck up of all fuck ups. Not only misaddress the text but to actually send it to another guy who is position for the job? Holy shit that's a fuck up. I've misadressed email. But always randomly.

Occam's razor says this is just a fuck up. But could this be Belichick playing some kind of game? I dunno. I'd like to think so because if he isn't we really need to get working on the fastball thread.

I can't believe Bill would actually put himself on the line like that deliberately. He has to know that this part of the case now is going to turn on what he knew, how he knew it, whether he was speculating, etc.

 

[Rusty13]

Giant fans have to be more worried about possible league sanctions then what this lawsuit may bring. Having said that, the Giants may benefit from the NFL being sued as well. Both entities have a mutual benefit of making this go away.

 

[RorschachsMask]

BB texting like Raymond Holt is just Tremendous.

And I’m glad Flores is fighting the league on this, but I think the situation is going to get ugly.