Atletico de Madrid, 2013-2014: Ganar, ganar y volver a ganar

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coremiller

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soxfan121 said:
 
There's a pretty well established "Cannot Play Against Home Club" rule for loans. Lukaku cannot suit up and play against Chelsea. This influences the loaning club, but only at the outset of the season. It is known that Lukaku can't play against Chelsea (or Barry against Man City) and therefore Everton can choose to buy cover for it (like Naismith) in the transfer window.
 
Chelsea's deal with Atletico is different. It says that Atletico can play the loan player (Courtois) but must pay $3M to do so. That is not standard and would "influence" who Atletico plays. That is fundamentally different than "he cannot play".  
 
I mean, I get that one is more common and an established practice and that the situations are not identical.  I just don't see how the differences should affect the application of the rule, if the rule is what was stated by UEFA.  "You can't play Loanee X against us" and "You can only play Loanee X against us if you pay us $5 million" are both attempts to influence team selection.  Under UEFA's statement of the rule, that's the only thing that matters.  That one is less standard and creates more ex ante uncertainty about the team selection seems completely irrelevant.  
 
Some of the confusion may result from overlapping jurisdictions.  Does this UEFA rule apply to purely domestic competition?  If not, that would explain why clubs have been enforcing "cannot play against home club" provisions for years in league play.  I can't actually recall an instance in Europe where a team tried to prevent a loanee from playing against them, but my memory is not exactly encyclopedic and I haven't tried to research it.
 

Schnerres

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In Germany, it is also common to "protect" players, so his loan club coach says something like "we don´t want to face him the pressure" etc., like what happens when someone switches clubs and they face off in an important match (like Götze from Dortmund to Bayern, although he was injured), because most guys remember "Loddar Maddäus" changing from Gladbach to Bayern (circa 1983/84), playing them in the DFB cup final and missing a penalty...
 
Imagine Courtois scoring a semi-own goal and the results in the press. Everyone (Atletico, Chelsea, Courtois) would lose.
Of course, the problem in this scenario is, if you have a keeper that needs to be replaced, the drop-off is much bigger than if it would be a field-player.
 

DLew On Roids

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Zomp said:
Right, and I'm sure Attletico agreed to the cause originally...I'm not sure how UEFA can reach this verdict
 
Because UEFA governs all international European club competitions.  Clubs agree to be bound by UEFA rules as a condition of entry into these competitions.
 
The UEFA rule doesn't apply to loans within countries because rules for those competitions are set by the national FAs.  In England, playing against home clubs is not prohibited by the loan agreement; it's an FA rule that was added when the FA started allowing loans between clubs in the same division a few years ago.  Incidentally, that rule only applies to league matches; loanees can play against their home clubs in cups as long as they aren't cup-tied.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Courtois will be permitted to play, per BBC
 


Chelsea chief executive Ron Gourlay confirms that the club will allow goalkeeper Thibaut Courtois, on loan at Atletico Madrid, to play against his parent club in the Champions League semi-finals.
 
Before the draw was made, Uefa released a statement to clarify that it expects the Belgium international to be free to face the Blues in both legs.
 
"The loan was arranged back in the start of the season. He can play against Chelsea, that's never in doubt," Gourlay says.
 
"Regarding the Uefa statement we'll evaluate that in due course. As far as we are concerned we will comply with loan rules. He can play in both ties against Chelsea if selected. That is fact."
 

Snakebauer007

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First I definitely think TC should be allowed to play, by Chelsea, he deserves the chance. In terms of UEFA interfering, I call bullshit:

"Any agreement between the two clubs that this player wouldnt play against Celtic should Elfsborg be drawn against them is purely between the clubs. UEFA would not have any involvement or consideration of this agreement, it would be neither endorsed or enforceable by UEFA."

Just seems another case of them picking when they want to enforce some rules they decided to change because it suits their needs.
 

bosox4283

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The Spanish press is reporting today that Chelsea and Atletico have reached an agreement that will allow Courtois to play. The terms of the agreement are undisclosed. 
 

bosox4283

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Atletico squeaks out another tough victory against Valencia in Valencia. Costa missed two one-on-one opportunities -- hopefully, he gets back on track versus Chelsea on Wednesday.
 
With these three points, Atleti now needs two more wins in its remaining three matches to win La Liga. The next two games--at Levante and home versus Malaga--are winnable. Levante and Malaga are both mid-table teams and are neither playing for Europe nor fighting relegation.
 
Ideally, Atletico can win these two matches and celebrate the title at home against Malaga. The fear, of course, is that if Atletico loses one of these matches (and assuming Real Madrid and Barcelona do not lose another match), Atletico needs to beat Barcelona in Barcelona in the last leg to win the league.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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It's interesting that the unique difference in La Liga's tiebreakers may come in to play this year. Atleti hold the tie breaker over Real Madrid by virtue of head to head, so if Real Madrid wins out and Atleti win their next two but lose at Barcelona, they win the league by virtue of that 1-0 win over Real Madrid earlier in the year. In most or all of the other leagues, Real Madrid would be the champion on goal difference. I kind of prefer head to head as the first tie breaker.
 

bosox4283

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Dios mio. Tough afternoon.
 
Atletico now must take care of business at home versus Malaga and either win at Barcelona in the last game or hope Real Madrid loses a match.
 

bosox4283

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Wow, what a turn of events: Real Madrid scores in the 92nd minute to tie against Valencia, thereby keeping their chances alive of winning La Liga. Granted, a tie makes winning the league all that more difficult for Real Madrid, but there is still hope.
 
The good news is that Atletico controls its own destiny: beat Malaga at home and tie or win against Barcelona in Barcelona, and the league is ours.
 
The bad news is that we need to take a point at Barcelona. While Barcelona is far from dangerous form right now, I do not want to have to take a point against a team with Messi and Iniesta.
 
So, I'll be rooting my hardest for Elche this weekend. If Elche manages to steal a point or win, the nail is in the coffin for Barcelona...and I can only hope they go half-assed against Atletico in the final match.
 

bosox4283

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For the last several weeks, we have been trying to predict how La Liga would finish. We all got it wrong: Atletico, Real Madrid, and Barcelona all threw away points, and no one seemed to want to win the league.
 
As a result of this unexpected finished, we have an even more unexpected event tomorrow. Atletico plays Barcelona in Barcelona, a match that will decide La Liga. If Atleti ties or wins, then they take the title back to Madrid. If Barcelona can win, they will finish at 88 points with Atletico, but because Barcelona will own the head-to-head advantage, they will celebrate the title in their stadium with their fans.
 
Cholo's squad has not lost this year to Barcelona, with four ties and one victory. So, perhaps Barcelona is due, or maybe Atleti has figured out how to play Barcelona.
 
Costa is on track to be in the starting eleven after missing the match against Malaga. For Barcelona, Alba, Pique, and Neymar could all return to the line-up. They've all been out for about a month, so it's not clear how Martino will use them, if he uses them at all.
 
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