A's @ Royals AL Wild Card Game Thread

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
28,686
A couple of observations.
 
1.  Yost got bailed out by his team.  Awful decision there.  I missed Pedro's take but man is he right.  Horrible managing
2.  The Dyson steal of third was crazy.  Runner at second with one down, bottom of the ninth and down by one.  Lefty at the plate.  And you steal.  An out there is almost a season killer and Dyson's speed gives him a decent shot from scoring from second.  The play of the game imho.
3.  Finnegan.  Wow.
4.  This was a great baseball game.
5.  Jon Lester was never coming back to Boston.  His early exit from the post-season just gives the Yankees more time to prepare his monster offer.  It makes me sad to type this and I will love being wrong.  But he isn't coming back and its time we faced it.
 
Go Royals... 
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
60,053
Oregon
Lost in all the craziness, perhaps, was Josh Willingham's pinch single in the 9th. Hard to sit on your butt for 3 hours, come up and get a rally started against an All-Star closer.
 
In the 8th, I got an email from a friend in KC:
 
"Do you think if the Royals come back and win this," he wrote, "that they allow Yost to manage against the Angels?"
 

semsox

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 14, 2004
1,486
Charlottesville
This is great. Now instead of having to root for an A's team I'm ambivalent about with their dead crowd against the fightin' Scioscia's, I get to cheer for a Royals team that's a great story and has an electric atmosphere at their games. Good for baseball. 
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
28,686
jon abbey said:
 
That is a spectacular shot.  And meme-worthy too.  
 
Gomes had no shot to catch that but Fuld should have stopped running instead of undercutting him and then trying to copulate with his lumbar.
 

JimD

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 29, 2001
6,610
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
 
5.  Jon Lester was never coming back to Boston.  His early exit from the post-season just gives the Yankees more time to prepare his monster offer.  It makes me sad to type this and I will love being wrong.  But he isn't coming back and its time we faced it.
 
 
The Cubs will sign Lester before the Yankees do.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Has anyone mentioned how awful Lowrie's fielding was last night? He had a couple of chances to at least knock down a ball and keep it in the infield, and he couldn't do it. I haven't seen Lowrie play in a while, and I was stunned by how calcified he looked.
 
Lester got a bum rap. 7 IP 3 ER is a good line, but once he started giving up singles in the 8th and over 100 pitches you've got to pull him. Gregerson was terrible in relief, but a clean inning there for a reliever might have been the better way to go.
 

BornToRun

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 4, 2011
11,709
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Has anyone mentioned how awful Lowrie's fielding was last night? He had a couple of chances to at least knock down a ball and keep it in the infield, and he couldn't do it. I haven't seen Lowrie play in a while, and I was stunned by how calcified he looked.
 
Lester got a bum rap. 7 IP 3 ER is a good line, but once he started giving up singles in the 8th and over 100 pitches you've got to pull him. Gregerson was terrible in relief, but a clean inning there for a reliever might have been the better way to go.
Agreed. I'm biased, of course, but I don't think Lester's defense and bullpen did him any favors last night and his final line should've been much better than the 6 ER he got charged with.
 

MakMan44

stole corsi's dream
SoSH Member
Aug 22, 2009
19,310
I fell asleep before the bottom half the of the final inning. Hell of game, I can't believe the A's let it slip through their fingers 3 separate times.
 

InsideTheParker

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
25,215
Pioneer Valley
Melvin was on the right track playing Soto, as Norris' clumsiness behind the plate was key to the loss. Also, Lester was a good match-up from the Royals' perspective, since he ignores the runner at first. The combination was gruesome. When I get some time, I'm going to try to see why the Royals fared so poorly against the Red Sox. Was Vazquez's arm a factor, I'm wondering.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,554
Boston, MA
7IP and 3ER is not a good line when your team gives you a 2-0 lead in an elimination game. And 7+IP and 6ER is a terrible line when you're up 7-3. The defense and relievers behind him were bad, but Lester shit the bed here.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
28,686
Max Power said:
7IP and 3ER is not a good line when your team gives you a 2-0 lead in an elimination game. And 7+IP and 6ER is a terrible line when you're up 7-3. The defense and relievers behind him were bad, but Lester shit the bed here.
Sincerely,

Larry Lucchino
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Max Power said:
7IP and 3ER is not a good line when your team gives you a 2-0 lead in an elimination game. And 7+IP and 6ER is a terrible line when you're up 7-3. The defense and relievers behind him were bad, but Lester shit the bed here.
 
Nonsense. He gave up a seeing-eye single that I thought Lowrie should have knocked down at the very least, gave up a steal, got an out while the runner advanced to third, and then a single up the middle to make it 7-4. At that point at the very latest he should have been pulled. I would have pulled him with a runner at 3rd and 1 out and 7-3 score and brought in a K guy, maybe go to Doolittle right there.
 
M

MentalDisabldLst

Guest
Max Power said:
7IP and 3ER is not a good line when your team gives you a 2-0 lead in an elimination game. And 7+IP and 6ER is a terrible line when you're up 7-3. The defense and relievers behind him were bad, but Lester shit the bed here.
 
That's like blaming Pedro for being left in during the 8th inning of the Game That Shall Not Be Named.
 
It's a pitcher's job to keep pitching, it's the manager's job to know when he shouldn't be pitching anymore.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,554
Boston, MA
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Nonsense. He gave up a seeing-eye single that I thought Lowrie should have knocked down at the very least, gave up a steal, got an out while the runner advanced to third, and then a single up the middle to make it 7-4. At that point at the very latest he should have been pulled. I would have pulled him with a runner at 3rd and 1 out and 7-3 score and brought in a K guy, maybe go to Doolittle right there.
 
So even in your best estimation, he gave up 4 runs in 7. That's good? In an elimination game where you were staked to two leads?
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
43,880
Max Power said:
 
So even in your best estimation, he gave up 4 runs in 7. That's good? In an elimination game where you were staked to two leads?
 
Against one of the worst hitting playoff teams in recent memory, also. 
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Dope
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
43,880
A big part of Lester's issues were the SBs, three of the six guys who scored against him stole second base. Some of that is on him, but some is on Soto/Norris also. 
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
28,686
In other words, the A's lost as a team. Pitching, defense, managing and even hitting (at the end). Its amazing, albeit less simple, that when you really analyze games, there are no true heros or goats. Unless you are infantile or a sports journalist that is...
 

InsideTheParker

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
25,215
Pioneer Valley
InsideTheParker said:
Melvin was on the right track playing Soto, as Norris' clumsiness behind the plate was key to the loss. Also, Lester was a good match-up from the Royals' perspective, since he ignores the runner at first. The combination was gruesome. When I get some time, I'm going to try to see why the Royals fared so poorly against the Red Sox. Was Vazquez's arm a factor, I'm wondering.
I see now that Lester entered the game with a 1.84 ERA against the Royals, best of any pitcher w/ 75 innings against them. So, I'm wondering if their running game has been slow in developing and if they had tried it against him in previous games.
 
May 30, 2014
375
Max Power said:
7IP and 3ER is not a good line when your team gives you a 2-0 lead in an elimination game. And 7+IP and 6ER is a terrible line when you're up 7-3. The defense and relievers behind him were bad, but Lester shit the bed here.
 
I'm with this. I like Lester (how can a Sox fan not) but I don't see how you give him a $150mil+ contract. For that type of contract, the expectations are just higher, and I don't think he lived up to them last night. Unless of course, the money doesn't matter because they supposedly have tons of it.
 

DrewDawg

Dorito Dink
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
35,266
MentalDisabldLst said:
KC is a good story, but the A's have the staff to potentially go all the way.  I don't know why people would be rooting for KC over Oakland here - anyone want to make the (obviously subjective) case for it?
 

Because KC is a good story. Full stop.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
 
I'm with this. I like Lester (how can a Sox fan not) but I don't see how you give him a $150mil+ contract. For that type of contract, the expectations are just higher, and I don't think he lived up to them last night. Unless of course, the money doesn't matter because they supposedly have tons of it.
 
Yes, by all means one game is sufficient to determine if a pitcher is of high quality over the course of his career.
 
Christ this is stupid.
 
Lester's career postseason ERA going into last night's game was 2.11. He went 4-1 in last year's playoff run, but because of last night he's no longer worth a $150 million contract? My god.
 

rembrat

Well-Known Member
Bronze Supporter
SoSH Member
May 26, 2006
36,058
DrewDawg said:
 
Because KC is a good story. Full stop.
 
And their fans actually turn out to games. They deserve it just like Baltimore. 
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
InsideTheParker said:
I see now that Lester entered the game with a 1.84 ERA against the Royals, best of any pitcher w/ 75 innings against them. So, I'm wondering if their running game has been slow in developing and if they had tried it against him in previous games.
 
From what I can see on his B-Ref page, in Lester's previous starts against the Royals he allowed 5 SBs and there were 6 runners caught stealing. So I'm guessing this year's Royals team just had a lot more team speed than previous editions.
 

dynomite

Member
SoSH Member
DrewDawg said:
Because KC is a good story. Full stop.
They're also a hell of a lot of fun to watch, even though 1987 baseball gives away a ton of outs and generally doesn't make sense.

Dyson's steal of 3rd in the bottom of the 9th was thrilling, and will be the Kansas City (poor man's) version of the Roberts Steal, hallowed be its name.
 

BornToRun

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 4, 2011
11,709
Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
 
I'm with this. I like Lester (how can a Sox fan not) but I don't see how you give him a $150mil+ contract. For that type of contract, the expectations are just higher, and I don't think he lived up to them last night. Unless of course, the money doesn't matter because they supposedly have tons of it.
I think it's pretty crazy not too make a serious offer for Lester based off of last night. He wasn't his sharpest but he wasn't as bad as his line says he was.

Furthermore, this is the same Jon Lester who had a 2.11 ERA in the playoffs heading into last night's game and who was lights out last October, capping his year with over 15 innings pitched and 1 run allowed in the World Series.

Edit: thanks to Smiling Joe for saying this better than I ever could.
 

Average Reds

Dope
Staff member
Dope
V&N Mod
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
25,054
Southwestern CT
Max Power said:
7IP and 3ER is not a good line when your team gives you a 2-0 lead in an elimination game. And 7+IP and 6ER is a terrible line when you're up 7-3. The defense and relievers behind him were bad, but Lester shit the bed here.
 
Nonsense.
 
While I can't speak for what was in the official scorer's head, the reality is that the first inning run was 100% on the defense and not on Lester.  Lester also ended up adding about 20 needless pitches to his count to get out of that inning. 
 
Now, we have no way of knowing how the game progresses if he has a clean inning to start, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying there's a good chance Lester gets to the 8th with a lot more in the tank than he had last night.
 

loshjott

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2004
7,840
Silver Spring, MD
dynomite said:
They're also a hell of a lot of fun to watch, even though 1987 baseball gives away a ton of outs and generally doesn't make sense.

Dyson's steal of 3rd in the bottom of the 9th was thrilling, and will be the Kansas City (poor man's) version of the Roberts Steal, hallowed be its name.
 
If KC goes on to win the series, there will be no "poor man's" about it.
 
May 30, 2014
375
BornToRun said:
I think it's pretty crazy not too make a serious offer for Lester based off of last night. He wasn't his sharpest but he wasn't as bad as his line says he was.

Furthermore, this is the same Jon Lester who had a 2.11 ERA in the playoffs heading into last night's game and who was lights out last October, capping his year with over 15 innings pitched and 1 run allowed in the World Series.

Edit: thanks to Smiling Joe for saying this better than I ever could.
 
It's not just based off of last night though. And Lester's October magnificence has been well established -even overly so judging by the ball washing commentary last night as he was giving up runs -. Last night is just another point of evidence on the risk of putting in that much money on a pitcher, added to age, etc.. I'm veering into unsupported, soft argument here, but I just think if you're going to give $150m to a guy you just need to see a bit more on that type of game. And I'm all for making a "serious" offer, question becomes what is considered serious (for me, no more than 5/6/$120).
 
Didn't mean to derail the thread, actually happy for KC fans on this one. 
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
 
It's not just based off of last night though. And Lester's October magnificence has been well established -even overly so judging by the ball washing commentary last night as he was giving up runs -. Last night is just another point of evidence on the risk of putting in that much money on a pitcher, added to age, etc.. I'm veering into unsupported, soft argument here, but I just think if you're going to give $150m to a guy you just need to see a bit more on that type of game. And I'm all for making a "serious" offer, question becomes what is considered serious (for me, no more than 5/6/$120).
 
Didn't mean to derail the thread, actually happy for KC fans on this one. 
 
Everything in your first paragraph is complete nonsense.
 
One game is not an argument for or against making a $150 million offer for a pitcher, no matter if he throws a no hitter or allows 18 runs. ONE GAME. You have to look at the full history of that pitcher before even thinking about possibly making any offer at all. One game in that scale matters NOTHING.
 
By your logic Lester shouldn't have even been pitching in the postseason last year; after all he once lost 3 straight postseason starts! I mean, look at this shit, he's a choker!
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
SoSH Member
I only got to watch the game this morning but I'm curious just how the fuck Bob Melvin went through 12 innings without finding an at-bat for one of the best home run hitters of his generation. GJGE pinch hitting Nate Freiman and Nick Punto in the 10th instead of a guy who could have run into one and won you the game.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Spacemans Bong said:
I only got to watch the game this morning but I'm curious just how the fuck Bob Melvin went through 12 innings without finding an at-bat for one of the best home run hitters of his generation. GJGE pinch hitting Nate Freiman and Nick Punto in the 10th instead of a guy who could have run into one and won you the game.
 
Dunn has terrible numbers against Shields (16Ks in 35 ABs). He was interviewed after the game and said he considered PHing Dunn in the 12th for Callaspo, but figured the Royals would just IBB him with the runner on second base.
 

Spacemans Bong

chapeau rose
SoSH Member
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Dunn has terrible numbers against Shields (16Ks in 35 ABs). He was interviewed after the game and said he considered PHing Dunn in the 12th for Callaspo, but figured the Royals would just IBB him with the runner on second base.
 
Oh I have no problem with him not getting a start, and I understood his rationale for not PHing him with Callaspo (though amazingly Yost didn't walk him - that might have been an even worse move than Ventura). At this point in his career Dunn is either the DH, and Moss had a hell of a game at DH, or he's a pinch hitter. I'm saying the 10th inning was where that bullet needed to be used.
 
May 30, 2014
375
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Everything in your first paragraph is complete nonsense.
 
One game is not an argument for or against making a $150 million offer for a pitcher, no matter if he throws a no hitter or allows 18 runs. ONE GAME. You have to look at the full history of that pitcher before even thinking about possibly making any offer at all. One game in that scale matters NOTHING.
 
By your logic Lester shouldn't have even been pitching in the postseason last year; after all he once lost 3 straight postseason starts! I mean, look at this shit, he's a choker!
 
That's like..your opinion man..
Look, I don't think you need to exaggerate my point to make yours. I obviously don't think you make that type of decision based on a single game. I did feel that way before the game actually (I think those types of contracts are nuts), so I'll admit to some bias that the game merely re-enforced. 
 
Edit:Language
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
Snoop Soxy Dogg said:
 
That's like..your opinion man..
Look, I don't think you need to exaggerate my point to make yours. I obviously don't think you make that type of decision based on a single game. I did feel that way before the game actually (I think those types of contracts are nuts), so I'll admit to some bias that the game merely re-enforced. 
 
Edit:Language
 
Your words:
 
 
I'm with this. I like Lester (how can a Sox fan not) but I don't see how you give him a $150mil+ contract. For that type of contract, the expectations are just higher, and I don't think he lived up to them last night.
 
I just think if you're going to give $150m to a guy you just need to see a bit more on that type of game.
 
Yes, you did make your decision on a single game. And my opinion is that's just dumb.
 

nvalvo

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
16,488
Rogers Park
BornToRun said:
Agreed. I'm biased, of course, but I don't think Lester's defense and bullpen did him any favors last night and his final line should've been much better than the 6 ER he got charged with.
 
Hell, with Xander Bogaerts at short — let alone an actual good shortstop — the A's likely win that game. 
 
Lowrie's a fine player. In fact, I'd consider him for 3B for the Sox, as maybe a plan B or C. But his 0/5 and poor defense was a big part of the Athletics' loss. 
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
nvalvo said:
 
Hell, with Xander Bogaerts at short — let alone an actual good shortstop — the A's likely win that game. 
 
Lowrie's a fine player. In fact, I'd consider him for 3B for the Sox, as maybe a plan B or C. But his 0/5 and poor defense was a big part of the Athletics' loss. 
 
Plan for multiple backups then, because in addition to being a terrible shortstop he's made of fine jade crystal.
 

JohntheBaptist

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 13, 2005
11,382
Yoknapatawpha County
Spacemans Bong said:
 
Oh I have no problem with him not getting a start, and I understood his rationale for not PHing him with Callaspo (though amazingly Yost didn't walk him - that might have been an even worse move than Ventura). At this point in his career Dunn is either the DH, and Moss had a hell of a game at DH, or he's a pinch hitter. I'm saying the 10th inning was where that bullet needed to be used.
I completely agree. I know Finnegan is a LHP, but Melvin really preferred Nick Punto from the right side over Dunn from the left there?
 
Hey everyone in the thread wins a free taco for being witness to the 10,000th SJH Lowrie-is-fragile joke! Anyone here have "fine jade crystal?" That gets you extra cheese on the taco.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
Dope
May 20, 2003
30,475
Deep inside Muppet Labs
JohntheBaptist said:
I completely agree. I know Finnegan is a LHP, but Melvin really preferred Nick Punto from the right side over Dunn from the left there?
 
Hey everyone in the thread wins a free taco for being witness to the 10,000th SJH Lowrie-is-fragile joke! Anyone here have "fine jade crystal?" That gets you extra cheese on the taco.
 
When you're right, you're right.
 

rembrat

Well-Known Member
Bronze Supporter
SoSH Member
May 26, 2006
36,058
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Plan for multiple backups then, because in addition to being a terrible shortstop he's made of fine jade crystal.
 
I've missed the SJH hate for Lowrie. 
 
edit: I see JtB got to it first.
 

Stanley Steamer

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jan 11, 2012
990
Rossland, BC
JohntheBaptist said:
I completely agree. I know Finnegan is a LHP, but Melvin really preferred Nick Punto from the right side over Dunn from the left there?
 
Hey everyone in the thread wins a free taco for being witness to the 10,000th SJH Lowrie-is-fragile joke! Anyone here have "fine jade crystal?" That gets you extra cheese on the taco.
I thought that got you the taco, lovingly nestled in a replica of the wrist splint Jed wore during his Sox days, made of fine jade crystal.
 

VORP Speed

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
4,120
Ground Zero
I didn't catch the game until the bottom of the 9th last night, so I sort of assumed Shields must have been looking really bad in the 6th to get pulled after 88 pitches. Just watched a replay of the inning...a broken bat bloop and then an inch off the paint ball 4 on a 3-2 count to the A's best hitter? The last time Shields threw fewer than 90 pitches in a start was July 27, 2011. Three and a half seasons ago. The guy's a horse. Strange decision vastly understates the case.
 

TheYaz67

Member
SoSH Member
May 21, 2004
4,712
Justia Omnibus
Well, the guy who had earlier hit a Shields change up (his "best" pitch) 426 feet into the right field stands was due up next, so not like a crazy decision to remove him, albeit the choice of pitcher to bring in was certainly crazy....