Analysis of Celtics Games, '21-'22 Season

[tbrown_01923]

It's interesting; three different camps seem to be setting up here:

(1) The Celtics absolutely need more talent. And Brown and Tatum aren't as good as we like to think they are, through our green-tinted glasses.

(2) The Celtics need more talent, but mainly to complement Brown and Tatum. They're elite players, but they don't have the right supporting cast.

(3) The Celtics have enough talent, but they just need more effort/consistency/desire/whatever.

Here's an article that I would say is in the #2 group. Personally I think the answer is somewhere between #1 and #2, but mostly #2.

I love seeing this wrtten out like this. Then iterating out options under each side.

Under camp 1 we see things like

• Jalen + for Simmons
• Jalen + for Lilard
• Jalen + for Beal

Under camp 2

• Move on from Smart and/or Schroder to a pure point guard/floor general
• Move on from Nesmith/Romeo for a plus 3pt shooter (more than just spot up)
• Move from starting two bigs to staggering Al / Rob

Under camp 3

• an ascending JT, JB and Scary Terry made a pretty good playoff run. Lets get back to that

Camp 4 ( think I have seen this too)

• Future is now, we just need a 1B star to shift everyone down a wrung, 5 picks and swaps for ???

Many more options in both camps. Playing hard more consistently applies no matter what what, they haven't demonstrated a DNA or identity that they can fallback upon at will.

Glad I am not making the call on this. It may come down to whether they believe whether there is more headroom for the stars to grow into versus the role players.

 

[tbrown_01923]

And with what assets do you add that player? Every team needs another top 30 player.

Barring some great fortune that nets us this top 30 player with no assets, the way to improve the team is trading Jaylen Brown.

And how long do you wait to add that 3rd star? How many years do you punt waiting for Bradley Beal?

Wouldn't the Harden trade be the blueprint for this? Tons of picks, swaps, a couple rotation players... not that I am advocating for it. You would have to be fairly certain this could work and could tinker w/ free agents / vets.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

The other problem with the "gotta get Marcus Smart outta here" view is that Boston needs a trade partner. Trading him just to get him off the roster is likely to actually cost the Celtics in a deal that was already likely to be tough. There are no obvious destinations for Smart alone, especially if there is an objective to get talent in return. The fit is very specific and the teams that could use his skillset aren't obvious matches in terms of players who can help Boston.

Maybe his critics are right and they are simply better off without him - trade him for a few low picks, a warm body and be done with it. Someone like Presti probably does that and then flips him down the road.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

The other problem with the "gotta get Marcus Smart outta here" view is that Boston needs a trade partner. Trading him just to get him off the roster is likely to actually cost the Celtics in a deal that was already likely to be tough. There are no obvious destinations for Smart alone, especially if there is an objective to get talent in return. The fit is very specific and the teams that could use his skillset aren't obvious matches in terms of players who can help Boston.

Maybe his critics are right and they are simply better off without him - trade him for a few low picks, a warm body and be done with it. Someone like Presti probably does that and then flips him down the road.

The key for us is the communication between Beal and the Wizards (that unless it goes public we are not privy to). “If” Beal let’s the Wizards know he isn’t re-signing with them you can make a case for Smart to be part of a deadline trade or a SNT this summer. More “ifs” bc that’s all we can do here……a Jaylen for Simmons swap would make a ton of sense from a roster construction position as well as a way to shake up a team apparently going nowhere fast.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I don't think it would be too hard to find a partner for Smart, and to get an asset back. I think anyone who is a fan of Smart wouldn't like the asset though.

Atlanta and Memphis could probably use him. Would Huerter or Melton be realistic gets? Denver for Monte Morris.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

It's interesting; three different camps seem to be setting up here:

(1) The Celtics absolutely need more talent. And Brown and Tatum aren't as good as we like to think they are, through our green-tinted glasses.

(2) The Celtics need more talent, but mainly to complement Brown and Tatum. They're elite players, but they don't have the right supporting cast.

(3) The Celtics have enough talent, but they just need more effort/consistency/desire/whatever.

I'd change it into these three groups:

(I) JT and JB are good enough to make the Cs into a championship contender so long as the Cs add another above-average player through dealing other assets or using trade exception(s).
(II) JT and JB are not yet good enough to make the Cs into a championship contender but are still ascending and over the next couple of years, given the correct coaching + system + tweaks in the roster or using trade exceptions, the Cs will be championship contenders.

(III) JT and JB will not be good enough and aren't a particularly good fit and one of them will have to be dealt.

There were many more people in (I) at the start of last season than right now for obvious reasons. The vast majority - including likely the Cs brass - are in (II) but more and more (and louder) voices are coming from (III).

All things considered, I think JB is the Cs best trade asset (obviously everyone would love to have JT but the Cs aren't getting anywhere near his value if they trade him) but JB isn't going to get the Cs two near-All Stars so I can't see a trade that would improve the Cs as much as keep them treading water. Maybe some GM will get desperate.

But as much as we want to speculate, it sounds like Brad is a patient man and he's going to give JT and JB at least until the end of the year to evaluate together unless some no-brainer transaction comes up.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

But as much as we want to speculate, it sounds like Brad is a patient man and he's going to give JT and JB at least until the end of the year to evaluate together unless some no-brainer transaction comes up.

Any big shake up should come in the off season. There will be more teams who could make a move for JB and there would likely have to be other moves that go along with it. So yeah, unless KAT is offered for JB, waiting until the offseason is the best option. At least in regards to trading Jaylen Brown. Anyone else outside of Tatum should be available. I wonder how much value TL has and if there's anyway to acquire the assets needed to add Sabonis to the Jays. I'm guessing his price tag won't be too outlandish but unless the Pacers love Grant Williams, I don't see it. The C's picks would be pretty worthless with a core of the Jays and Sabonis. It would help if AN or RL were better.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think I'm in the camp of...

1. The Jays are good value for their money and fit together fine on a contender.... They need to change the nature of their supporting cast, potentially getting a 3rd star (or a good fit sub-star)
2. Marcus Smart is a good player, on a reasonable deal who is a terrible fit for both his role and the two Jays.
3. We should be very willing to package picks to upgrade Smart, because we aren't likely to be picking high enough in the Jays era to add a player better than Marcus (could happen with injuries etc, but odds are against it).

 

[Jimbodandy]

I think I'm in the camp of...

1. The Jays are good value for their money and fit together fine on a contender.... They need to change the nature of their supporting cast, potentially getting a 3rd star (or a good fit sub-star)
2. Marcus Smart is a good player, on a reasonable deal who is a terrible fit for both his role and the two Jays.
3. We should be very willing to package picks to upgrade Smart, because we aren't likely to be picking high enough in the Jays era to add a player better than Marcus (could happen with injuries etc, but odds are against it).

I agree with all of this. To add to #3, I don't think that we even need to "upgrade" Marcus. Just replacing Marcus with a better fit would be huge.

 

[mcpickl]

It's interesting; three different camps seem to be setting up here:

(1) The Celtics absolutely need more talent. And Brown and Tatum aren't as good as we like to think they are, through our green-tinted glasses.

(2) The Celtics need more talent, but mainly to complement Brown and Tatum. They're elite players, but they don't have the right supporting cast.

(3) The Celtics have enough talent, but they just need more effort/consistency/desire/whatever.

Here's an article that I would say is in the #2 group. Personally I think the answer is somewhere between #1 and #2, but mostly #2.

I'd be in camp (4) Tatum and Brown, despite their accomplishments, are still very young. Young players rarely win titles as your lead guys.

I think since Bird/Magic, the only guys who've won titles before age 26 as your lead guy are

Tim Duncan, who had David Robinson with him.
Kobe Bryant, who had Shaq with him
Dwyane Wade, who also had Shaq with him.

So to win that young in the past 40ish years, all you need to be is a future top 75 player in NBA history with an older future top 75 player in NBA history riding shotgun.

This team making the conference finals with these guys has thrown the expectations for them way out of whack

They aren't title contenders right now.
There isn't a realistic trade they can make that turns them into title contenders right now.
They won't be title contenders in the future unless Tatum develops into a top ten player in the league.

The NBA is harsh. In other sports, except maybe football where you almost always need a top QB to win, you can win without having the top star players.

We can make up all the Jaylen/Smart trades we want. Maybe get a guy who's a different fit. Maybe get two lesser guys for one that bring different skills. Maybe bunch up a few guys for a better second or third guy.

It all doesn't make you a contender until your top guy is a top ten guy.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Glad we could rediscover here that a positive team differential over 48 minutes is highly correlated with team differentials over various large samples of 48 minutes. This doesn't support any thesis to me besides that teams win when their players play well. Which is not an insight at all.

Well, in CC's defense, I'm the one who brought it up and he was more or less making your point, and I wasn't that seriously suggesting that +/- numbers over 25 games means a lot.

I agree with all of this. To add to #3, I don't think that we even need to "upgrade" Marcus. Just replacing Marcus with a better fit would be huge.

I keep thinking that there's a version of Marcus that can fit in with the Jays. It's not the current version; it's a version that looks more like 2018-19 when he took 7-ish shots a game, shot 36% from 3P, had an EFg of .533, and average 7 assists to 2.7 TOs per 100 possessions.

It would be interesting to know what coaching he's gotten over the years because he seems to have streaks of games where he throws away multiple possessions a game. I guess that's for Brad's tell-all book.

 

[dhellers]

Well, in CC's defense, I'm the one who brought it up and he was more or less making your point, and I wasn't that seriously suggesting that +/- numbers over 25 games means a lot.

I keep thinking that there's a version of Marcus that can fit in with the Jays. It's not the current version; it's a version that looks more like 2018-19 when he took 7-ish shots a game, shot 36% from 3P, had an EFg of .533, and average 7 assists to 2.7 TOs per 100 possessions.

It would be interesting to know what coaching he's gotten over the years because he seems to have streaks of games where he throws away multiple possessions a game. I guess that's for Brad's tell-all book.

This makes sense. The money quote from Ainge a few years ago is that if you traded Marcus you would spend a few years looking for his replacement.
Which means to me that in his proper role, he is a valuable asset to a contender. But when he has to stretch outside of the role, his value rapidly deteriorates.
And on this current team -- that lacks consistent secondary scorers and doesn't have a top flight playmaker --- he is stretching a lot.

 

[slamminsammya]

Well, in CC's defense, I'm the one who brought it up and he was more or less making your point, and I wasn't that seriously suggesting that +/- numbers over 25 games means a lot.

I keep thinking that there's a version of Marcus that can fit in with the Jays. It's not the current version; it's a version that looks more like 2018-19 when he took 7-ish shots a game, shot 36% from 3P, had an EFg of .533, and average 7 assists to 2.7 TOs per 100 possessions.

It would be interesting to know what coaching he's gotten over the years because he seems to have streaks of games where he throws away multiple possessions a game. I guess that's for Brad's tell-all book.

Its not a small sample size issue - just think about what you would be saying with those on/off metrics and win/loss relationships for someone who played every minute. Extrapolate from there.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Its not a small sample size issue - just think about what you would be saying with those on/off metrics and win/loss relationships for someone who played every minute. Extrapolate from there.

I agree with you, if that wasn't clear. The numbers mean nothing. I was posting them to prove that point.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I'd be in camp (4) Tatum and Brown, despite their accomplishments, are still very young. Young players rarely win titles as your lead guys.

I think since Bird/Magic, the only guys who've won titles before age 26 as your lead guy are

Tim Duncan, who had David Robinson with him.
Kobe Bryant, who had Shaq with him
Dwyane Wade, who also had Shaq with him.

So to win that young in the past 40ish years, all you need to be is a future top 75 player in NBA history with an older future top 75 player in NBA history riding shotgun.

This team making the conference finals with these guys has thrown the expectations for them way out of whack

They aren't title contenders right now.
There isn't a realistic trade they can make that turns them into title contenders right now.
They won't be title contenders in the future unless Tatum develops into a top ten player in the league.

The NBA is harsh. In other sports, except maybe football where you almost always need a top QB to win, you can win without having the top star players.

We can make up all the Jaylen/Smart trades we want. Maybe get a guy who's a different fit. Maybe get two lesser guys for one that bring different skills. Maybe bunch up a few guys for a better second or third guy.

It all doesn't make you a contender until your top guy is a top ten guy.

You pretty much need a top 75 player of all time to win any title. Has there been a team who has won a title without a top 75 player? Maybe the Pistons team. You pretty much made that point but you also talked about winning a title before age 26. The reason Tatum isn't going to win a title before 26 as the lead guy is because he's not a top 10 player.

I guess the solution is just more of the same for 3 years. If that is the case, Jaylen Brown will probably leave when his contract is up and Jayson will follow the year after. Why would they stick around on a team in NBA purgatory? At some point, you do have to make a move if the team is treading water. That has to be long before 25/26.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

This makes sense. The money quote from Ainge a few years ago is that if you traded Marcus you would spend a few years looking for his replacement.
Which means to me that in his proper role, he is a valuable asset to a contender. But when he has to stretch outside of the role, his value rapidly deteriorates.
And on this current team -- that lacks consistent secondary scorers and doesn't have a top flight playmaker --- he is stretching a lot.

This is it in a nutshell. We have lots of people playing armchair psychologist about how Smart views himself. They may well be right but the more obvious reason that Marcus tries to do too much is because he is one of the team's best three or four players and has been since he came into the league. That is the problem too.

On a roster with more talent where he is clearly the fourth through sixth best player, he should be very valuable. However on a club where the "better" shooters like Schroder and Richardson are effectively your third volume scorers, its not hard to see why Smart will get aggressive in stretches where it isn't working for others. You may want him to defer but if nobody else is shooting well, what are you really asking? Its not like those two, or anyone on the roster other than Tatum and Brown are clearly superior at offense.

I personally find it just as demoralizing when, for example, Schroder tries to do "too much" but its hard to blame him. Its not his fault that the team is light on other offensive options and knowing this, Schroder decides its on him to become aggressive.

In any event, trade Brown, trade Smart, fire Udoka and even level up Tatum some more. But unless you upgrade the talent down the roster along with these moves, this team isn't likely to win a championship soon.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1470426738106769408?s=20

Jay King: Per @ShamsCharania, rival teams expect the Celtics to open talks around Dennis Schroder, whose contract situation will make it difficult for Boston to keep him long term. That and so much more in here.

This makes sense. Since Shroder is gone anyway, keeping him only makes sense if the team is viewed as a contender.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I keep thinking that there's a version of Marcus that can fit in with the Jays. It's not the current version; it's a version that looks more like 2018-19 when he took 7-ish shots a game, shot 36% from 3P, had an EFg of .533, and average 7 assists to 2.7 TOs per 100 possessions.

It would be interesting to know what coaching he's gotten over the years because he seems to have streaks of games where he throws away multiple possessions a game. I guess that's for Brad's tell-all book.

The only reason Marcus had so few FGA that season was that was the year when we didn’t have enough balls to go around. Kyrie, Tatum, Jaylen, Hayward, Rozier, Morris…….you can’t shoot if you don’t have the ball. He’s never been the type to be passive offensively and has always had questionable shot selection. 2018-19 was an anomaly for the reasons above and not some relevation that he has suddenly learned only to later forget.

 

[benhogan]

View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1470426738106769408?s=20

Jay King: Per @ShamsCharania, rival teams expect the Celtics to open talks around Dennis Schroder, whose contract situation will make it difficult for Boston to keep him long term. That and so much more in here.

This makes sense. Since Shroder is gone anyway, keeping him only makes sense if the team is viewed as a contender.

this will piss off a few people

BUT a cold December was always going to drive this. Its the right approach

 

[HomeRunBaker]

this will piss off a few people

BUT a cold December was always going to drive this. Its the right approach

I was excited about this team in the summer with the personnel additions, hated some of the coach speak we heard and the resulting performance on the floor.

Blow.
It.
Up.

EBT!!!

 

[benhogan]

I was excited about this team in the summer with the personnel additions, hated some of the coach speak we heard and the resulting performance on the floor.

Blow.
It.
Up.

EBT!!!

the only thing worse will be watching a rusty, confused Jaylen try to distribute

then see him struggle on D because he still isn't 100%

 

[Cesar Crespo]

then see him struggle on D because he still isn't 100%

What was his excuse before?

 

[lexrageorge]

If trading DS is the only move, I will be with the majority here in being utterly disappointed .

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Its not a small sample size issue - just think about what you would be saying with those on/off metrics and win/loss relationships for someone who played every minute. Extrapolate from there.

no one was saying the numbers really mean anything substantial for any number of reasons.

 

[radsoxfan]

I'm fine with trading DS but what exactly can he bring back? If its a 2nd rounder or late first can't say I'm too excited.

 

[benhogan]

What was his excuse before?

Decent on-ball defender

BUT he's confused most of the time on D, doesn't understand zone, and rarely helps

I've been bitchin about Jaylen's defense for years

 

[chilidawg]

Well, in CC's defense, I'm the one who brought it up and he was more or less making your point, and I wasn't that seriously suggesting that +/- numbers over 25 games means a lot.

I keep thinking that there's a version of Marcus that can fit in with the Jays. It's not the current version; it's a version that looks more like 2018-19 when he took 7-ish shots a game, shot 36% from 3P, had an EFg of .533, and average 7 assists to 2.7 TOs per 100 possessions.

It would be interesting to know what coaching he's gotten over the years because he seems to have streaks of games where he throws away multiple possessions a game. I guess that's for Brad's tell-all book.

Watching Smart is such an emotional roller coaster, but his net effect on the court has been good. The team is +3.9 when he's on the court, -6.1 when he's off. JB, JT and TL all also have positive team on, negative off numbers. Horford, Langford and Grant are negative on, positive off. Mr. Freedom has truly spectacularly good numbers in his limited usage (and the best Defensive Rating on the team)

I'm going with the surrounding cast needing more improvement than the core. JB needs to be his healthy self, Tatum needs to make more shots and pass more, and Smart needs to be the guy that WBCD hopes he can be. Maybe more minutes for Enes and fewer for Horford, who probably is more effective playing fewer minutes.

 

[benhogan]

I'm fine with trading DS but what exactly can he bring back? If its a 2nd rounder or late first can't say I'm too excited.

his salary is a good match with a rookie scale contract on a contender that doesn't have the minutes to develop

Maybe go through the top 8 teams, see who they have on rookie contracts that are not in their top 8 rotation

 

[sezwho]

I'm fine with trading DS but what exactly can he bring back? If its a 2nd rounder or late first can't say I'm too excited.

He can bring PP back from purgatory

 

[Jimbodandy]

If trading DS is the only move, I will be with the majority here in being utterly disappointed .

What are you talking about? We can trade Jaylen for some stiffs and mix things up. That'll be exciting.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

his salary is a good match with a rookie scale contract on a contender that doesn't have the minutes to develop

Maybe go through the top 8 teams, see who they have on rookie contracts that are not in their top 8 rotation

None of those teams have anything outside of the often named Coby White and maybe Ziaire Williams. The list is small. Cleveland might be able to use him too but have nothing to offer for him.

It will probably be a late first round pick.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

What are you talking about? We can trade Jaylen for some stiffs and mix things up. That'll be exciting.

More exciting than watching this team for the last 1 1/3 season.

 

[benhogan]

None of those teams have anything outside of the often named Coby White and maybe Ziaire Williams. The list is small. Cleveland might be able to use him too but have nothing to offer for him.

It will probably be a late first round pick.

I could imagine DS+ getting them something they could turn around in a bigger trade this summer

regardless I doubt they move him for a 2nd, he is good value for a contender

 

[NomarsFool]

I don't see this team making it past the second round in the playoffs, and probably is only 50-50 to make it out of the first round. So, from my perspective, this is a lost year from a championship perspective and I'd rather get as many assets as possible from any assets that we don't see being part of the next really good Celtics team (Schroder and maybe Al Horford if he has any value to anyone).

The question then becomes:

A) Do we combine assets plus Jaylen Brown or Jason Tatum to get a better star than one of those two (and that better star could come with less years of cost control - that's all part of the equation)

B) Do we have enough assets to get a player meaningfully good enough to make a difference when combined with the Jays?

I think the idea of trading Jaylen Brown for complementary pieces isn't worth discussing, IMHO. This is a star league, and you don't get to be a championship team by trading for Ed Pinckney and Joe Kleine.

Unfortunately, the Celtics have just been pretty unlucky in the draft (both with lottery picks ending up lower than any of us hoped for and frankly, not really hitting on those picks).

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Unfortunately, the Celtics have just been pretty unlucky in the draft (both with lottery picks ending up lower than any of us hoped for and frankly, not really hitting on those picks).

That's one way of looking at it. The C's hit the jackpot with the Brooklyn picks.

But yeah, over the last few years they've wasted too many assets in general, or assets have devalued.

 

[mcpickl]

You pretty much need a top 75 player of all time to win any title. Has there been a team who has won a title without a top 75 player? Maybe the Pistons team. You pretty much made that point but you also talked about winning a title before age 26. The reason Tatum isn't going to win a title before 26 as the lead guy is because he's not a top 10 player.

I guess the solution is just more of the same for 3 years. If that is the case, Jaylen Brown will probably leave when his contract is up and Jayson will follow the year after. Why would they stick around on a team in NBA purgatory? At some point, you do have to make a move if the team is treading water. That has to be long before 25/26.

This right here is what I'm talking about. Calling being a decent team, but not a top contender, purgatory.

There are only a handful of real contenders every year, should the other 25ish teams all just blow it up? Is there a way to trade all of their players to the 5ish contenders? Can they all fit?

Players sometimes will like to stay in the same place if you actually make the playoffs a bunch. I don't think players consider good, not great, teams purgatory. That's a fans/media thing.

Giannis signed his third contract before last season, having been as far as the conference finals once.
Embiid signed his third contract before this season, never been out of the second round
Gobert signed his third contract before last season, never been out of the second round
Lillard is in year ten in Portland, been to one conference finals and we haven't heard anything about him looking to get out until now

Those dudes are all much better players than Jaylen, all had less playoff success in their situations, and all stuck around because their teams weren't in purgatory. They were all playoff teams, but not title favorites. (And being able to pay them more sure helps)

Players are a bit more pragmatic than fans in this regard.

There is a big difference between staying long term in a true purgatory spot like Sacramento, which never makes the playoffs, and Boston, which always does.

 

[benhogan]

This right here is what I'm talking about. Calling being a decent team, but not a top contender, purgatory.

There are only a handful of real contenders every year, should the other 25ish teams all just blow it up? Is there a way to trade all of their players to the 5ish contenders? Can they all fit?

Players sometimes will like to stay in the same place if you actually make the playoffs a bunch. I don't think players consider good, not great, teams purgatory. That's a fans/media thing.

Giannis signed his third contract before last season, having been as far as the conference finals once.
Embiid signed his third contract before this season, never been out of the second round
Gobert signed his third contract before last season, never been out of the second round
Lillard is in year ten in Portland, been to one conference finals and we haven't heard anything about him looking to get out until now

Those dudes are all much better players than Jaylen, all had less playoff success in their situations, and all stuck around because their teams weren't in purgatory. They were all playoff teams, but not title favorites. (And being able to pay them more sure helps)

Players are a bit more pragmatic than fans in this regard.

There is a big difference between staying long term in a true purgatory spot like Sacramento, which never makes the playoffs, and Boston, which always does.

you still don't want them to move Schroder if December continues this way?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

This right here is what I'm talking about. Calling being a decent team, but not a top contender, purgatory.

There are only a handful of real contenders every year, should the other 25ish teams all just blow it up? Is there a way to trade all of their players to the 5ish contenders? Can they all fit?

Players sometimes will like to stay in the same place if you actually make the playoffs a bunch. I don't think players consider good, not great, teams purgatory. That's a fans/media thing.

Giannis signed his third contract before last season, having been as far as the conference finals once.
Embiid signed his third contract before this season, never been out of the second round
Gobert signed his third contract before last season, never been out of the second round
Lillard is in year ten in Portland, been to one conference finals and we haven't heard anything about him looking to get out until now

Those dudes are all much better players than Jaylen, all had less playoff success in their situations, and all stuck around because their teams weren't in purgatory. They were all playoff teams, but not title favorites. (And being able to pay them more sure helps)

Players are a bit more pragmatic than fans in this regard.

There is a big difference between staying long term in a true purgatory spot like Sacramento, which never makes the playoffs, and Boston, which always does.

I would think being a 7-10 seed every year and having to play the play in game would be purgatory. If Jaylen Brown's last season is finishing 7th and losing 2 play in games... yeah he might very well leave.

Depends how badly they want to win titles, really.

 

[mcpickl]

you still don't want them to move Schroder if December continues this way?

I said earlier in this thread if they can move him for a similar impact guy that can play for them this year and have more term(or Bird rights), then sure.

I don't think they should move him for a meager pick/prospect, which I think is the most likely return.

In that case, let him help your team for the rest of the year and then let him walk.

 

[mcpickl]

I would think being a 7-10 seed every year and having to play the play in game would be purgatory. If Jaylen Brown's last season is finishing 7th and losing 2 play in games... yeah he might very well leave.

Depends how badly they want to win titles, really.

Maybe
And maybe they pay him more money and he stays
or maybe they're the third seed, win two rounds, and he is thrilled to stay.


Picking the worst case scenario that could happen 2 and a half seasons from now, and using that worst case scenario as a reason to make a franchise altering move right now, doesn't seem like good business to me.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

If they are a 3 seed and win 2 rounds, they made moves. Maybe they get lucky with Juhan or something. They clearly need to add talent though.

 

[mcpickl]

If they are a 3 seed and win 2 rounds, they made moves. Maybe they get lucky with Juhan or something. They clearly need to add talent though.

It's two and a half years from now man.

I think it's a safe bet they won't have the exact same roster then as they have now.

Doesn't really seen that far fetched to think they could be in that spot. The core three guys were already in that exact spot all the way back to 14 months ago.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

What are you talking about? We can trade Jaylen for some stiffs and mix things up. That'll be exciting.

Who has proposed trading Jaylen for stiffs? He’d be one of most marketable players in the league if he’s available.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

If trading DS is the only move, I will be with the majority here in being utterly disappointed .

This can’t be the only move as his value is likely that of a low 1st or a young player who hasn’t set the world on fire (of which we have plenty of already).

If we are playing to compete this year he’s a crucial part of this team. If we are blowing it up he can bring additional future value. Anything in the middle shows a concerning lack of vision…….you can’t play it halfway unless you want to live in purgatory.

 

[lexrageorge]

This can’t be the only move as his value is likely that of a low 1st or a young player who hasn’t set the world on fire (of which we have plenty of already).

If we are playing to compete this year he’s a crucial part of this team. If we are blowing it up he can bring additional future value. Anything in the middle shows a concerning lack of vision…….you can’t play it halfway unless you want to live in purgatory.

So, either the author of the Athletic article doesn't consider such items when making his claim that the Celtics will trade Schroeder (in which case his comments are useless drivel), or he is repeating what he is hearing from the front office, in which case the entire organization from Wyc on down should be dismantled. Another possibility is he is carrying water for Schroeder's agent, but DS is in a pretty good position now in terms of getting paid next year, so I find that unlikely.

Bottom line is that they need a path to finding a true star to pair w/ Tatum. Brown can either be the third banana, or part of the vehicle that nets them the 3rd star. They've got 2 more seasons after this one before Brown walks for nothing; there's time, but it could get late early if they muff the punt.

 

[NomarsFool]

Bottom line is that they need a path to finding a true star to pair w/ Tatum. Brown can either be the third banana, or part of the vehicle that nets them the 3rd star. They've got 2 more seasons after this one before Brown walks for nothing; there's time, but it could get late early if they muff the punt.

I think you mean 2nd star? Because if Brown is traded, they don't have that 3rd star. If we're upgrading from Brown to someone better as the #2, I also don't think they have much left in the way of assets to substantially upgrade the roster anywhere else.

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1470586837643137025?s=20

 

[Deathofthebambino]

View: https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1470586837643137025?s=20

Someone should remind Dan they played the Clippers without PG and Kawhi, the Lakers are a .500 team, Phoenix was missing Booker and Ayton, Portland is not a good team and had no McCollum, etc.

Yeah, on paper, almost all of those teams are good, but that's not necessarily the teams the C's played that night.

Tonight's game was the C's best win of the year, by a mile.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Someone should remind Dan they played the Clippers without PG and Kawhi, the Lakers are a .500 team, Phoenix was missing Booker and Ayton, Portland is not a good team and had no McCollum, etc.

Yeah, on paper, almost all of those teams are good, but that's not necessarily the teams the C's played that night.

Tonight's game was the C's best win of the year, by a mile.

And Milwaukee was playing it's 2nd road game in 2 nights, it's 3rd in 4, and it's 4th in 6.

The Sons of Pat LIstach are probably labeling it a schedule loss.

 

[chilidawg]

Maybe Tatum really does work playing with Jaylen. And Marcus can work as well. Small sample size.