Analysis of Celtics Games (2020-2021)

Jimbodandy

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From what I saw yesterday, it was not entirely Tatum's fault. He did get the ball out quickly on a number of occasions, but the issue was whoever he passed it too (like Theis) was too slow making the next pass to get the easy basket. With that being said, getting aggressively double-teamed at the NBA level is very difficult, and Tatum really only started seeing it towards the end of last season when he made his big leap forward before the All Star break. He is 22, and he should be able to figure it out with more experience. I think in the mean time, the Celtics are willingly playing into opponents hands when Tatum runs the point.
I think that he's slower to recognize it than Brown, but a better passer out of it when he does. I could be wrong.

Your point is correct though. It has to be identified early, and a good first pass and subsequent passes must be made. Overall I'd like to see Brad coach better passing and execution out of that. We should be welcoming the defense to throw extra bodies at a guy 30+ feet from the basket, because it's supposed to result in a layup or wide open look. Instead, we fumble it enough that the defense routinely recovers. NO isn't a good defensive team.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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CsBlog with analysis 8f 4Q meltdown against NOP. https://www.celticsblog.com/2021/2/22/22295206/anatomy-of-a-collapse-10-takeaways-from-boston-celtics-new-orleans-pelicans

Most of the stuff has already been mentioned in one or another thread but video is nice. Shot chart Co,parison between 2 teams is telling. One point article made that bears watching is whether Cs start playing at a glacial pace when they get they lead, which in turn leads to lots 9f ISO ball as shot clock winds down.
Let's say Brad arrives at the conclusion he has to just keep the pace up, move the ball, take the good shots available, and not set up plays for the his emerging stars. How do Tatum and Brown feel about that? How does a protege of Kobe Bryant feel about that?

This is the culture of the NBA, while the game evolves more and more into the EURO style drive kick, drive kick, shoot the 3 early that Dantoni brought over, the culture and media are still, Bird, MJ, Harden take the last 3 shots. That the Cs have 2 stars that are much better in the motion style than the star system compounds this conflict.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Let's say Brad arrives at the conclusion he has to just keep the pace up, move the ball, take the good shots available, and not set up plays for the his emerging stars. How do Tatum and Brown feel about that? How does a protege of Kobe Bryant feel about that?

This is the culture of the NBA, while the game evolves more and more into the EURO style drive kick, drive kick, shoot the 3 early that Dantoni brought over, the culture and media are still, Bird, MJ, Harden take the last 3 shots. That the Cs have 2 stars that are much better in the motion style than the star system compounds this conflict.
Well that's coaching.

And let's be clear here - we're not just talking about the last few minutes of the game. It's all kind of a downward spiral. The Cs slow the pace down; take tough shots; opponents get easy buckets off of transition (and the Cs aren't getting TOs leading to easy buckets); the Cs take the ball out of the basket and keep the pace slow leading to tough shots late in the shotclock, etc. etc. etc.

We've had this discussion multiple times and I am definitely on the side that when it's crunch time, you give the ball to your stars and tell them to go get a bucket or get fouled (this is the harder part with JB/JT). But earlier in the 4Q, the Cs have to figure out a way to keep the pace up and the pressure on. We all know that the Cs have been terrible this year in transition so it would be great if the Cs could get buckets and set up their defense. And hopefully, there will be no crunch time.

Either that or JB and JT become unstoppable in ISO, even against double-teams.
 

mcpickl

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I know you're not a Kanter fan but would you take EK as the 3rd string beef center @$5MM + Bane (or another 2nd rounder)? with some scratch left over to add a vet (instead of Green)

Danny has whiffed badly in free agency the last 2 seasons
Yes

Especially since I still would've had the MLE to use on another wing.

I'd still rather have a third center that isn't expecting to have minutes every night, but I'd take Kanter+MLE wing as a second choice over TT and Javonte.
 

mcpickl

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We are not privy to the conversations Ainge had regarding other players agreeing to come here or who they were.......but to call a guy who has started nearly every game while avg 23mph “a 3rd center only guy” shows you aren’t willing to discuss this logically.

Ainge was never going to enter this season with the unknown availability due to the pandemic having only Theis and TL as his bigs. That would have been negligent.
By 3rd center only, I meant a 3rd guy in the rotation that can only play center.

Not that he was only as good as a 3rd string center.

And again, never said only Theis and TL as his bigs. I've said many times they'd sign a veteran minimum center as the 3rd big.

I'm very willing to discuss things logically, thanks.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yes

Especially since I still would've had the MLE to use on another wing.

I'd still rather have a third center that isn't expecting to have minutes every night, but I'd take Kanter+MLE wing as a second choice over TT and Javonte.
MLE wing isn't a player, it's a phantom that is as good or bad as you want it to be. Lets put some names on guys who would have been options. Looking at who signed where and for what, you're looking at:
Alec Burks maybe?
Josh Jackson?
Maybe Derrick Jones Jr if you're lucky?

Those guys are all garbage, I'd definitely rather have TT and Javonte then any of them and Kanter. Javonte is arguably as good as any of them, Thompson is better than Kanter, and someone might actually see TT as a positive in a trade.
 

GreenMonster49

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I mean, his defensive numbers are terrible this year and POR are giving up 117 points per 100 possessions when he's on the court. Making what is already one of the worst defenses in the league significantly worse.
Kanter is getting starter's minutes now only because Nurkic is hurt, but his current ratings make clear that, while his defense is not good, his offense is very good (ORtg of 129 and DRtg of 113: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2021.html). A lot of his value to the team is from his rebounding (Off% is 16.6%, Def% is 31.0%). I'm sure that the Blazers have mixed up their team P&R defense to accommodate his defensive inadequacies, but he has certainly played well enough for them this season.
 

benhogan

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Kanter is getting starter's minutes now only because Nurkic is hurt, but his current ratings make clear that, while his defense is not good, his offense is very good (ORtg of 129 and DRtg of 113: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2021.html). A lot of his value to the team is from his rebounding (Off% is 16.6%, Def% is 31.0%). I'm sure that the Blazers have mixed up their team P&R defense to accommodate his defensive inadequacies, but he has certainly played well enough for them this season.
and Kanter's role would be 3rd string Center (and paid like one). So he'd be perfectly fine

But posters like to misrepresent what his role was last season
 

Cellar-Door

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Kanter is getting starter's minutes now only because Nurkic is hurt, but his current ratings make clear that, while his defense is not good, his offense is very good (ORtg of 129 and DRtg of 113: https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/POR/2021.html). A lot of his value to the team is from his rebounding (Off% is 16.6%, Def% is 31.0%). I'm sure that the Blazers have mixed up their team P&R defense to accommodate his defensive inadequacies, but he has certainly played well enough for them this season.
He's a very bad defender in the regular season and a worse one in the playoffs, he's of little value to a team that more than anything asks their bigs to either stretch the floor or defend, which is what the Celtics do. He's probably a bit more valuable to a bad rebounding bad defense team that just tries to outscore everyone because nobody is going to defend anyway.

and Kanter's role would be 3rd string Center (and paid like one). So he'd be perfectly fine

But posters like to misrepresent what his role was last season
Nobody cares what his role was last season, they care about what his role would/could have been this season depending on Williams.

Last season the team didn't have a competent partner/replacement for Theis, who couldn't stay on the court, and Williams likewise couldn't stay on the court for injury reasons. Kanter couldn't play in a key playoff series because of his defense and it cost them.

Now... this year Theis is fouling less, he and Williams are healthy, and as such TT isn't as important as he could have been, but that doesn't mean Kanter would be good. Thompson was brought in to eliminate downside risk, instead the other two bigs have both exceeded expectations and not gotten injured so far, which has minimized the impact of upgrading Kanter, but if Williams' hip issue comes back Thompson gives them far more capability to get playoff caliber big minutes than Kanter ever did.

If we want to talk misrepresenting, it's your "oh we could have had a good wing on the MLE instead" which is obvious nonsense, since no good wings signed on the MLE.
 

Cellar-Door

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I never once said they could get a good wing on MLE. Strictly discussing the 3rd string Center.

whatever
Then your answer is.... don't use the MLE at all? That's a waste of a $9M salary slot that you can get a decent player (in this case your 2nd C, who may get passed by your promising but oft-injured youngster) and a good trade salary.
 

benhogan

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Then your answer is.... don't use the MLE at all? That's a waste of a $9M salary slot that you can get a decent player (in this case your 2nd C, who may get passed by your promising but oft-injured youngster) and a good trade salary.
nope. wrong again....You get a wing or PG that can add more value than a 3rd string center
 

Cellar-Door

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nope. wrong again....You get a wing or PG that can add more value than a 3rd string center
So.... an imaginary player who has no name... great.

Also calling him a 3rd center isn't accurate to how he was signed. He was the 2nd C at worst given how little Williams had played and that he had an injury that needed minutes management.

Thompson was a good signing. We've been lucky that he hasn't been needed and may now be expendable, but if Williams were hurt instead of Smart, we'd be in bad shape without him.

Also as noted before... the wing options with the MLE were dire, nobody we could get was more valuable than a 15-20 minute a night C.

I mean, if you really think that we'd be better off with Josh Jackson on the bench and Grant Williams playing 15 MPG at C, that's fine, I don't think anyone in their right mind would agree, but sure.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Well that sucked, but it’s very encouraging to see Nesmith and Williams getting high leverage minutes. Their development is critical for this team.
 

benhogan

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So.... an imaginary player who has no name... great.

Also calling him a 3rd center isn't accurate to how he was signed. He was the 2nd C at worst given how little Williams had played and that he had an injury that needed minutes management.

Thompson was a good signing. We've been lucky that he hasn't been needed and may now be expendable, but if Williams were hurt instead of Smart, we'd be in bad shape without him.

Also as noted before... the wing options with the MLE were dire, nobody we could get was more valuable than a 15-20 minute a night C.

I mean, if you really think that we'd be better off with Josh Jackson on the bench and Grant Williams playing 15 MPG at C, that's fine, I don't think anyone in their right mind would agree, but sure.
seriously what's the point?

Danny has already come out and basically said he fu@ked up building around the Jays over the last two years...
 

lexrageorge

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seriously what's the point?

Danny has already come out and basically said he fu@ked up building around the Jays over the last two years...
I don't recall him stating that. Nor has he said that signing Thompson was a mistake.

Ainge got dealt a shitty hand last offseason on a number of fronts. Now, if Langford never gets healthy, that's on Ainge
 

PedroKsBambino

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So.... an imaginary player who has no name... great.

Also calling him a 3rd center isn't accurate to how he was signed. He was the 2nd C at worst given how little Williams had played and that he had an injury that needed minutes management.

Thompson was a good signing. We've been lucky that he hasn't been needed and may now be expendable, but if Williams were hurt instead of Smart, we'd be in bad shape without him.

Also as noted before... the wing options with the MLE were dire, nobody we could get was more valuable than a 15-20 minute a night C.

I mean, if you really think that we'd be better off with Josh Jackson on the bench and Grant Williams playing 15 MPG at C, that's fine, I don't think anyone in their right mind would agree, but sure.
Paul Milsap would help and is not imaginary. They tried, and we don't know if they tried early or only late (which matters in the tamper-positive NBA offseason signing period)

Desmond Bane, who you thought they didn't have a roster spot for, also would help.

I get what their concept was and it feels like Hayward's departure was a surprise for them. But the gaps are what they are now and they need to make some choices about whether to try and fix in-season or just bear the pain and try in the offseason---at which point they should have more data on Nesmith and Romeo too.
 

benhogan

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I don't recall him stating that. Nor has he said that signing Thompson was a mistake.

Ainge got dealt a shitty hand last offseason on a number of fronts. Now, if Langford never gets healthy, that's on Ainge
"There are things I could have done better, but I'm not going to mention names. I'll take this responsibility. This is a team that was put together by me, and we're not playing with enough consistency and urgency, and it's my job to look to see what we can do to improve the team, but that's always much harder than improving from within."
 

mcpickl

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MLE wing isn't a player, it's a phantom that is as good or bad as you want it to be. Lets put some names on guys who would have been options. Looking at who signed where and for what, you're looking at:
Alec Burks maybe?
Josh Jackson?
Maybe Derrick Jones Jr if you're lucky?

Those guys are all garbage, I'd definitely rather have TT and Javonte then any of them and Kanter. Javonte is arguably as good as any of them, Thompson is better than Kanter, and someone might actually see TT as a positive in a trade.
Here are the phantoms I mentioned at the time.


All but Harkless would be Bostons top wing off the bench this year.

Unless you think nights like tonight, when your three top wing options in Semi/Nesmith/Grant giving you 8 points over a combined 53 minutes, couldn't use any boost at all.

LOL and you actually replied to that post. PHANTOMS YO
 

Cellar-Door

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Paul Milsap would help and is not imaginary. They tried, and we don't know if they tried early or only late (which matters in the tamper-positive NBA offseason signing period)

Desmond Bane, who you thought they didn't have a roster spot for, also would help.

I get what their concept was and it feels like Hayward's departure was a surprise for them. But the gaps are what they are now and they need to make some choices about whether to try and fix in-season or just bear the pain and try in the offseason---at which point they should have more data on Nesmith and Romeo too.
Milsap chose somewhere else. They had the spot to offer him because they traded the pick and Kanter.
That was the offseason plan.

I think it's important to recognize WHERE Danny has screwed up.

For some reason people keep getting hung up on Thompson, which was a good and smart move at the time it was made. He was the best MLE level player left, and he fit a need. Luckily for us TL was one of the few young guys to step up and so now his role is less crucial.

Trading the 1st was basically inevitable, we have too many guys on multi-year deals, and with Hayward possibly coming back it was even more constricted.

Where Danny has missed isn't the small moves.... it's the big ones.

Not turning Kyrie into anything.
Rolling the dice on Kemba and missing
Not having a strong plan for Hayward (I guess hypothetically he could get a miracle with the TPE, but unlikely)
Turning a whole bunch of draft picks into a whole bunch of mediocre bench players. One reason the MIL pick needed to be traded was that they couldn't consolidate picks over the last few years so they already had: Nesmith, Pritchard, Langford, GW, Carsen under multi-year deals.
Striking out on backup bigs (Poirier, Kanter).

Those are the issues. Basically ever since they dumped Baynes they've been hunting for a rebounding big, and cycling through. They didn't hit on any and TL couldn't stay on the court, so they got Thompson.
It's all the misses, and turning Kyrie and Hayward into nothing that are killing this team.
 

benhogan

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Milsap chose somewhere else. They had the spot to offer him because they traded the pick and Kanter.
That was the offseason plan.

I think it's important to recognize WHERE Danny has screwed up.

For some reason people keep getting hung up on Thompson, which was a good and smart move at the time it was made. He was the best MLE level player left, and he fit a need. Luckily for us TL was one of the few young guys to step up and so now his role is less crucial.

Trading the 1st was basically inevitable, we have too many guys on multi-year deals, and with Hayward possibly coming back it was even more constricted.

Where Danny has missed isn't the small moves.... it's the big ones.

Not turning Kyrie into anything.
Rolling the dice on Kemba and missing
Not having a strong plan for Hayward (I guess hypothetically he could get a miracle with the TPE, but unlikely)
Turning a whole bunch of draft picks into a whole bunch of mediocre bench players. One reason the MIL pick needed to be traded was that they couldn't consolidate picks over the last few years so they already had: Nesmith, Pritchard, Langford, GW, Carsen under multi-year deals.
Striking out on backup bigs (Poirier, Kanter).

Those are the issues. Basically ever since they dumped Baynes they've been hunting for a rebounding big, and cycling through. They didn't hit on any and TL couldn't stay on the court, so they got Thompson.
It's all the misses, and turning Kyrie and Hayward into nothing that are killing this team.
signing Kemba is by far the biggest clunker. Danny does deserve some credit for trying to unload him immediately after the bubble (with all the phones get slammed down on him).

Sounds like you've been positive on the TT signing from day 1, and have dug in (see post above)

TT is now ballast/filler for this team...we won't miss him one iota
 

Light-Tower-Power

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So what can Danny realistically do to improve this team? The Jays are fantastic and it would be a shame to waste the year with this craptastic roster around them. I’m asking because I see few good options and hope that maybe there are some more optimistic opinions out there.
 

nighthob

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So what can Danny realistically do to improve this team? The Jays are fantastic and it would be a shame to waste the year with this craptastic roster around them. I’m asking because I see few good options and hope that maybe there are some more optimistic opinions out there.
Thanks to the play-in there’s not the usual NBA rendition of A Whole Lotta Tankin’ Goin’ On. This is a bridge year, embrace it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Well that sucked, but it’s very encouraging to see Nesmith and Williams getting high leverage minutes. Their development is critical for this team.
I know you generally don’t watch from green-colored glasses but wondering how much “development” comes from the two of them combining for 0 points on 0-0 shooting in a combined 29 minutes of action. Grant was used in the 4Q to try and get a better matchup but he was pretty awful (again).
 

DannyDarwinism

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I know you generally don’t watch from green-colored glasses but wondering how much “development” comes from the two of them combining for 0 points on 0-0 shooting in a combined 29 minutes of action. Grant was used in the 4Q to try and get a better matchup but he was pretty awful (again).
I meant the other Williams, but yeah, I’m talking baby steps here. There’s NBA game speed, and then there’s 4th Q , close game, intensity ramped up a couple of notches, game speed. For Nesmith, particularly, it’s encouraging to see that Brad has the confidence to put him out there. Desperate times, sure, given our wing depth, but the kid couldn’t crack the rotation a couple of weeks ago. I think for off-ball movement shooters, getting a sense of the speed, rhythm and spacing of the NBA has got to be a difficult adjustment; rookie ball handlers can at least try to dictate tempo, but everything’s so reactive for off-ball guys. The production will come, at least he didn’t look like a chicken with his head cut off during crunch time. The maximized version of him and Time Lord are just miles better options than the alternatives right now, so I’ll take any progress I can find.
 

nighthob

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Next year is a bridge year too if Danny can’t get Kemba’s carcass off this team.
Boston’s best case is Kemba coming far enough back that a team is willing to give up a second rounder for him. A more practical hope is that he becomes an overpaid Lou Williams. I suspect that they’re just stuck with him for now.
 

benhogan

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Boston’s best case is Kemba coming far enough back that a team is willing to give up a second rounder for him. A more practical hope is that he becomes an overpaid Lou Williams. I suspect that they’re just stuck with him for now.
The good news is you can fire up the VCR, get the popcorn maker going and dust off the 2021 Mock Draft thread.

Three straight years in the lottery and this time with our own pick :eek:

can you say Sharife Cooper...
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This team is undoubtedly difficult to watch but its really hard to write their epitaph at the halfway point, especially given Smarts absence and all the COVID games missed. Smart's minutes alone are hard to replace at even league average production, let alone all the other things he brings in terms of team defense and playmaking. Tatum's missed games, Kemba working back and the lack of any consistent bench production have all had negative impacts. There may well be other issues at play like chemistry or coaching but we have zero evidence of that (not counting poster complaints).

Setting aside any sorts of roster additions, this team is talented enough to work through this rough patch. That is no guarantee that they will of course but they aren't bad so much as extremely thin down the roster.
 

mikeot

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This team is undoubtedly difficult to watch but its really hard to write their epitaph at the halfway point, especially given Smarts absence and all the COVID games missed. Smart's minutes alone are hard to replace at even league average production, let alone all the other things he brings in terms of team defense and playmaking. Tatum's missed games, Kemba working back and the lack of any consistent bench production have all had negative impacts. There may well be other issues at play like chemistry or coaching but we have zero evidence of that (not counting poster complaints).

Setting aside any sorts of roster additions, this team is talented enough to work through this rough patch. That is no guarantee that they will of course but they aren't bad so much as extremely thin down the roster.
I knew we could count on you for a much-needed reality check.
 

nighthob

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The good news is you can fire up the VCR, get the popcorn maker going and dust off the 2021 Mock Draft thread.

Three straight years in the lottery and this time with our own pick :eek:

can you say Sharife Cooper...
Nah, Boston will finish 9th in the East, lose the play-in game to the Heat, and from the 12 hole win the first pick in the draft finally breaking the Kyurse. They then proceed to draft Cade Cunningham to be the third wing, he and the JayCrew form the JayCade Brigade and go on to rule the WWE ... errr ... the NBA.

(But, seriously, Cunningham would be fucking awesome here.)
 

HomeRunBaker

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This team is undoubtedly difficult to watch but its really hard to write their epitaph at the halfway point, especially given Smarts absence and all the COVID games missed. Smart's minutes alone are hard to replace at even league average production, let alone all the other things he brings in terms of team defense and playmaking. Tatum's missed games, Kemba working back and the lack of any consistent bench production have all had negative impacts. There may well be other issues at play like chemistry or coaching but we have zero evidence of that (not counting poster complaints).

Setting aside any sorts of roster additions, this team is talented enough to work through this rough patch. That is no guarantee that they will of course but they aren't bad so much as extremely thin down the roster.
Aside from the trade deadline pickups the Celtics have one of the highest Lost WS due to injured players.

388FC29A-2539-420C-A992-020AB934956B.png
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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One other factor to consider with regards to roster building is that even after the '20 ECF, Boston seemed to be perceived as too young still to compete with the contenders so they weren't likely to get any ring chasers. Furthermore, their young core makes it tough to get their friends/AAU teammates to come join them because they are mostly locked up. Simply put, Boston hasn't been a destination but that might change with Jaylen's leap (that floater is diabolical).
 

128

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"There are things I could have done better, but I'm not going to mention names. I'll take this responsibility. This is a team that was put together by me, and we're not playing with enough consistency and urgency, and it's my job to look to see what we can do to improve the team, but that's always much harder than improving from within."
The biggest mistake, IMO, was thinking Teague had something left in the tank. I'm not wild about this three-center rotation, but Thompson has been really solid of late. Stevens no longer plays Teague when Kemba is available.
 
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ZMart100

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Teague didn't take a vet min deal because he is good. Edwards and Waters aren't exactly beating him out either.
 
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128

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Teague didn't take a vet min deal because he is good. He's tied for 300th highest paid player in the league, which seems fair.
True, but that the fact that he's turned to be unplayable is a problem, especially with Smart out. He's not even close to Wanamaker at this point, and that's just one more obstacle for Stevens to have to try to overcome.
 
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lexrageorge

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I know you generally don’t watch from green-colored glasses but wondering how much “development” comes from the two of them combining for 0 points on 0-0 shooting in a combined 29 minutes of action. Grant was used in the 4Q to try and get a better matchup but he was pretty awful (again).
I meant the other Williams, but yeah, I’m talking baby steps here. There’s NBA game speed, and then there’s 4th Q , close game, intensity ramped up a couple of notches, game speed. For Nesmith, particularly, it’s encouraging to see that Brad has the confidence to put him out there. Desperate times, sure, given our wing depth, but the kid couldn’t crack the rotation a couple of weeks ago. I think for off-ball movement shooters, getting a sense of the speed, rhythm and spacing of the NBA has got to be a difficult adjustment; rookie ball handlers can at least try to dictate tempo, but everything’s so reactive for off-ball guys. The production will come, at least he didn’t look like a chicken with his head cut off during crunch time. The maximized version of him and Time Lord are just miles better options than the alternatives right now, so I’ll take any progress I can find.
Team was +5 when Nesmith was playing, so he was doing something right.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Milsap chose somewhere else. They had the spot to offer him because they traded the pick and Kanter.
That was the offseason plan.

I think it's important to recognize WHERE Danny has screwed up.

For some reason people keep getting hung up on Thompson, which was a good and smart move at the time it was made. He was the best MLE level player left, and he fit a need. Luckily for us TL was one of the few young guys to step up and so now his role is less crucial.

Trading the 1st was basically inevitable, we have too many guys on multi-year deals, and with Hayward possibly coming back it was even more constricted.

Where Danny has missed isn't the small moves.... it's the big ones.

Not turning Kyrie into anything.
Rolling the dice on Kemba and missing
Not having a strong plan for Hayward (I guess hypothetically he could get a miracle with the TPE, but unlikely)
Turning a whole bunch of draft picks into a whole bunch of mediocre bench players. One reason the MIL pick needed to be traded was that they couldn't consolidate picks over the last few years so they already had: Nesmith, Pritchard, Langford, GW, Carsen under multi-year deals.
Striking out on backup bigs (Poirier, Kanter).

Those are the issues. Basically ever since they dumped Baynes they've been hunting for a rebounding big, and cycling through. They didn't hit on any and TL couldn't stay on the court, so they got Thompson.
It's all the misses, and turning Kyrie and Hayward into nothing that are killing this team.
You've been saying this about the Bane pick since the offseason---but repetition doesn't make it so. They could have drafted Bane and dumped Green or Carsen. That was a mistake, one several of us noted at the time. I get the theory you and others had---they wanted someone who knew the system, minutes might be an issue etc. Those were reasonable arguments at the time---but this far into the season we know they were wrong, don't we? I'm far from a reactive Ainge-killer but it's important to be realistic looking back, too.

I'm not sure if you just didn't read my post carefully, but the big question with Millsap is when they began to engage---there were reports it was a late interest and if so, that may well have impacted whether they got him or not. You asked who the wing was and in fact, there was an answer who would have helped. We won't likely ever know on this, but it is certainly a question one can ask reasonably whether they were too late to move there (which is as you note related at least somewhat to Hayward's status).

That said, I also don't disagree with you on TT. He was arguably the best player left, and there was a chance his physical toughness would be a missing pieces, and also that the veteran leadership would be valuable. To date those have not played out as hoped but I don't hate the signing (nor do I love it), especially the second year. Presumably that was what it took to get him, which is ok. I don't love the two big lineups but as several of us noted in offseason, that is about lack of wings moreso than anything else.

They needed to get a couple rotation players out of all those picks, and they haven't. Some of that is bad luck, and some is a "quantity over quality" drafting approach that probably didn't ideally fit the roster as it played out. To the degree they viewed the third 1st the way you did, that error is also a function of not creating roster spots. One thing Miami has always been very good at is recognizing the back end of the roster is pretty fungible---the Celtics have had the opposite view and it has hurt development of their role players.
 

Devizier

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True, but that the fact that he's turned to be unplayable is a problem, especially with Smart out. He's not even close to Wanamaker at this point, and that's just one more obstacle for Stevens to have to try to overcome.
Letting Wanamaker walk is sneakily one of Danny’s worst moves.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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This team is undoubtedly difficult to watch but its really hard to write their epitaph at the halfway point, especially given Smarts absence and all the COVID games missed. Smart's minutes alone are hard to replace at even league average production, let alone all the other things he brings in terms of team defense and playmaking. Tatum's missed games, Kemba working back and the lack of any consistent bench production have all had negative impacts. There may well be other issues at play like chemistry or coaching but we have zero evidence of that (not counting poster complaints).

Setting aside any sorts of roster additions, this team is talented enough to work through this rough patch. That is no guarantee that they will of course but they aren't bad so much as extremely thin down the roster.
Agree with all of this. I mentioned this upthread but the Cs do seem mentally fatigued. Hopefully they can recharge a bit over the All-Star Break, get Marcus and Romeo back, and start playing better basketball.

It would not take much to turn some of the Ls into Ws, even without upgrading their roster.
 

NomarsFool

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Dec 21, 2001
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Is planning for Nesmith/Semi to replace Gordon Hayward's minutes at wing a better decision than planning for R. Williams and Theis to take the vast majority of minutes at the 5? I guess you could consider Romeo a bit, but we did know coming in he was going to miss quite a bit of the season. His return has been slower than expected, but even that - it seems optimistic to have banked on a big role for Romeo this year. Despite some positive signs last season, he doesn't have much of a track record.

Anyway, the one light at the end of the tunnel for me is if I look at last night, if we simply replace the 30 minutes of playing time that Semi and Grant Williams had with 30 minutes of Marcus Smart, that might have made the difference.