AJP gets exorcised and Christian Vazquez up. Starts tonight

[absintheofmalaise]

David Laurila interviewed Tyler Flowers when the White Sox were in town. It was posted on Fangraphs today and has some very interesting information on pitch framing. He also asked Flowers about Vazquez and about the AJP "give me a ball you can see" incident. He talks about David Ross in the interview as well. It sounds like he's pretty impressed with the framing skills that Vazquez exhibited. 
 

 
 
“He didn’t have too many pitches in the dirt today, so I didn’t see any blocks. But I saw a pretty compact kind of guy. It looked like he had a good, low set up. I did notice there were a number of low pitches, and he seemed to do a really good job of not letting them take him out of the zone – he didn’t let the momentum carry his glove down. He did a good job counter-acting that force to catch it where it was, or even kind of massage it back up in the zone a little bit. What I saw from [the dugout] as far as up and down, I thought he looked pretty good, pretty sharp. He was kind of effortless, too, which is always a plus.”

 
Some of what he said about Ross:
 

 
 
“Again, with that said, in addition to the relationship he might have with umpires, the veteran catcher might be a little better receiving pitches in general. There’s a reason a guy like David Ross has played this game as long as he has and been successful. He’s good at things like that. He’s a good receiver, he’s good at communicating, he’s good at calling a game. So he might have a bit of an edge, as far as physically understanding what is more appealing to umpires to call a pitch a strike, or what will have him calling a borderline pitch a ball. It goes back to how you set up, the amount of movement you have, and how you receive a pitch. I’m a big fan of Rossy, because he does a great job of being quiet, and letting breaking balls and high pitches get deep to give the illusion they’re lower than they are. He does a good job with the low pitch, catching it out in front – catching it at a higher point.”

 

[E5 Yaz]

AJP released

 

[mabrowndog]

AJP released

 
And on cue, the Brewers sign...
 
 
 
... Hector Gimenez, released by the Blue Jays on Monday.
 
Indeed, it seems nobody wants AJ at any price. Good riddance.

 

[Ted Cox 4 president]

This thread title is the gift that just keeps on giving.

 

[Doooweeeey!]

I'm giddy at the thought of watching games with Vazquez behind the plate.  Seems like this has been a long All Star Break!

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

I'm giddy at the thought of watching games with Vazquez behind the plate.  Seems like this has been a long All Star Break!

 
Seriously.  Even against the Astros hitters, Clay only goes maybe 7 1/3 IP last week with "Stabby" Pierzynski catching him, because he'd waste too many pitches on the edges to put batters away quickly.
 
Though framing skills aren't yet able to be adequately measured and valued, there's a real big difference there.  Plus both Lackey and Buchholz specifically mentioned it in the post-game of their first time throwing to him.  That kind of immediate increase in pitcher confidence is a positive in my book...not that AJP's 76 OPS+ was that high a bar to clear in the other half of the inning.

 

[Doooweeeey!]

 
Seriously.  Even against the Astros hitters, Clay only goes maybe 7 1/3 IP last week with "Stabby" Pierzynski catching him, because he'd waste too many pitches on the edges to put batters away quickly.
 
Though framing skills aren't yet able to be adequately measured and valued, there's a real big difference there.  Plus both Lackey and Buchholz specifically mentioned it in the post-game of their first time throwing to him.  That kind of immediate increase in pitcher confidence is a positive in my book...not that AJP's 76 OPS+ was that high a bar to clear in the other half of the inning.

Well hell, if CV only puts up 80 OPS+ we've got something, don't we?  

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

Well hell, if CV only puts up 80 OPS+ we've got something, don't we?  

 
If CV can put up an 80 OPS+ at age 23 on a losing team, then he's probably good for a 12-15 year career as a backup catcher.  If nothing else.

 

[tims4wins]

 
If CV can put up an 80 OPS+ at age 23 on a losing team, then he's probably good for a 12-15 year career as a backup catcher.  If nothing else.

 
Right, my dad and I were discussing this last week, CV's floor is probably David Ross or someone like that.
 
Edit: I had no idea that Ross had a 97 OPS+ for his career. Much better offensive player than I thought.

 

[Buzzkill Pauley]

 
Right, my dad and I were discussing this last week, CV's floor is probably David Ross or someone like that.
 
Edit: I had no idea that Ross had a 97 OPS+ for his career. Much better offensive player than I thought.

 
Never more than 350 PA in a season, plus time he had with ATL after the Red Sox let him go in 2008 were rather good.
 
That being said, backing up McCann's prime years would allow one's manager to pick spots to hit pretty well, I'd think.

 

[soxhop411]

Ross is going to still catch Lester/Peavy
 
Mike Petraglia ‏@Trags  2m
Farrell says David Ross will continue to catch Lester and Peavy post break. #RedSox

 

[joe dokes]

Ross is going to still catch Lester/Peavy
 
Mike Petraglia ‏@Trags  2m
Farrell says David Ross will continue to catch Lester and Peavy post break. #RedSox

 
In a perfect world, Ross only hits vs LHPs, but if they think the pitchers will be better this way, maybe it evens out.

 

[Sprowl]

Ross is going to still catch Lester/Peavy
 
Mike Petraglia ‏@Trags  2m
Farrell says David Ross will continue to catch Lester and Peavy post break. #RedSox

 
A 60-40 Vazquez-to-Ross ratio sounds very sensible for the purposes of learning, mentoring and TradeValue(tm). Ross can take longer breaks in September when the rosters expand and Swihart gets a whiff of the majors leagues.

 

[Reverend]

 
Seriously.  Even against the Astros hitters, Clay only goes maybe 7 1/3 IP last week with "Stabby" Pierzynski catching him, because he'd waste too many pitches on the edges to put batters away quickly.
 
Though framing skills aren't yet able to be adequately measured and valued, there's a real big difference there.  Plus both Lackey and Buchholz specifically mentioned it in the post-game of their first time throwing to him.  That kind of immediate increase in pitcher confidence is a positive in my book...not that AJP's 76 OPS+ was that high a bar to clear in the other half of the inning.

 
There is something mesmerizing about watching CV pitch. It's like the glove is always in the middle of the plate almost no matter where the pitch goes. I know its moving, but I can barely see it even when I'm staring at it looking for it.

 

[Doooweeeey!]

 
There is something mesmerizing about watching CV pitch. It's like the glove is always in the middle of the plate almost no matter where the pitch goes. I know its moving, but I can barely see it even when I'm staring at it looking for it.

Just watched the clip of Clay's start on MLB again.  I count no less than 5 Ks where CV's glove work played a positive role.
If just a small percentage of that becomes a regular thing the rest of the season…oh man!

 

[gammoseditor]

Just watched the clip of Clay's start on MLB again.  I count no less than 5 Ks where CV's glove work played a positive role.
If just a small percentage of that becomes a regular thing the rest of the season…oh man!

 
It does seem that he is very good at framing pitches, but I think it was pointed out in the game thread that the umpire had a giant zone for both sides that day.

 

[Reverend]

 
It does seem that he is very good at framing pitches, but I think it was pointed out in the game thread that the umpire had a giant zone for both sides that day.

 
Chicken-egg?

 

[gammoseditor]

 
Chicken-egg?

 
Not unless the opposing catcher is also one of the best pitch framers in baseball?  I'm not saying he's not great.  I'm saying if the umpire has a huge zone for both pitchers that game doesn't tell us much.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Ross is going to still catch Lester/Peavy
 
Mike Petraglia ‏@Trags  2m
Farrell says David Ross will continue to catch Lester and Peavy post break. #RedSox

 
Farrell: "Vazquez will focus on the pitchers who will be here next season...oops, did I just say that!?!"

 

[67WasBest]

 
There is something mesmerizing about watching CV pitch. It's like the glove is always in the middle of the plate almost no matter where the pitch goes. I know its moving, but I can barely see it even when I'm staring at it looking for it.

One thing I've noticed he's quite gifted with is having the ball impact the perimeter of the glove, and he captures it regardless.  I've caught a lot of games, and this was the toughest skill to master and I never did.  He's not only mastered it, it's Yoda like the way he deploys it.

 

[Reverend]

 
Not unless the opposing catcher is also one of the best pitch framers in baseball?  I'm not saying he's not great.  I'm saying if the umpire has a huge zone for both pitchers that game doesn't tell us much.

 
I figured this would be the response, but even still, he's involved in roughly half of the results in the data which is obviously going to influence the generalized perception.
 
Maybe I'll go pull the zones from the game and post them. If anyone wants to get on that, since I'm feeling lazy, much obliged...

 

[seageral]

He's so good he frames pitches for the OTHER pitcher too!

 

[Reverend]

 

He's so good he frames pitches for the OTHER pitcher too!

 

 
Laugh it up, fuzzball.
 
But yeah, it's as I expected--according to pitchf/x, it wasn't generally wide so much as it seemed wide because of how well the Red Sox did:
 

 

 
 
I pulled his other two MLB games too. Looks like Sprowly was right--the guy's a god. He's absolutely stealing some of these, and is consistently getting calls he should too.
 
July 9
 

 

 
July 11
 

 

 
 
Special thanks to Champagne Shower For Gabe for PMing me to tell me I messed up my graphs.

 

[Sprowl]

He's so good he frames pitches for the OTHER pitcher too!

 
Statisticians and the faithful call it the Christian Halo.

 

[soxhop411]

so those reports that said AJP would be in the clubhouse by himself on iPad.......
 

https://twitter.com/iamjoonlee/status/491379511351443456

 

[Bone Chips]

Talk about addition by subtraction. What are we, 8-1 since he left? Team chemistry - the most under-rated part of baseball.

 

[Jaylach]

AJP wrote a wonderful letter to his formal team: http://www.survivinggrady.com/2014/07/aj-pierzynski-writes-former-red-sox-teammates.html
 
 
Note: AJP did not write this.

 

[Sprowl]

AJP wrote a wonderful letter to his formal team: http://www.survivinggrady.com/2014/07/aj-pierzynski-writes-former-red-sox-teammates.html
 
 
Note: AJP did not write this.

 
That was delightful, but
 

Or how someone would yell, “Salty woulda had that!” whenever I’d drop something in the clubhouse?

 
makes me think that somebody owes SoSH royalties, cuz Iggy woulda had that first.

 

[mabrowndog]

I'm hoping at some point soon we can remove any reference to AJP from the thread title and just make this all about Vazquez -- or move all the posts on the kid to a new thread of his own. Until then...
 
Jon Shestakofsky ‏@Shesta_Sox 51m
Christian Vazquez is the first Red Sox to win each of his first 5 major league games, all as starting catcher.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

I'm hoping at some point soon we can remove any reference to AJP from the thread title and just make this all about Vazquez -- or move all the posts on the kid to a new thread of his own. Until then...
 
Jon Shestakofsky ‏@Shesta_Sox 51m
Christian Vazquez is the first Red Sox to win each of his first 5 major league games, all as starting catcher.

 
Maybe we go whole hog here and just all agree to pretend AJ never happened? Erase him from old official photos like Stalin would do.
 
In fact--what does "AJP" mean again? Suddenly feeling much less clear on that.

 

[tomdeplonty]

In fact--what does "AJP" mean again? Suddenly feeling much less clear on that.

 
It's an obscure abbreviation that translates into "grounds into double play".

 

[Rice4HOF]

 
It's an obscure abbreviation that translates into "grounds into double play".

On first pitch.  After 2 consecutive 4 pitch walks.

 

[Rasputin]

AJP = Alejandro Pena

You know what sucks?

The fact that when Swihart displaces Vazquez, the team is probably going to trade Vazquez rather than keep someone so valuable on the bench.

I would rather have Swihart catch for times a week and pay first twice a week to hopefully extend the careers of Papi, Napoli, and Swihart.

 

[Adrian's Dome]

AJP = Alejandro Pena

You know what sucks?

The fact that when Swihart displaces Vazquez, the team is probably going to trade Vazquez rather than keep someone so valuable on the bench.

I would rather have Swihart catch for times a week and pay first twice a week to hopefully extend the careers of Papi, Napoli, and Swihart.

 
I'd rather have you play catcher than AJP.
 
Everything else is gravy.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

I have a sad feeling we'll be looking at 2014 in 2 halves: AJP and AAJP and thinking of what could have been.

 

[mabrowndog]

Maybe we go whole hog here and just all agree to pretend AJ never happened? Erase him from old official photos like Stalin would do.

 
I'll gladly hold on to some faint recollection of his fleeting existence if only for nuggets of beauty like this:
 

 

[jscola85]

 
I'll gladly hold on to some faint recollection of his fleeting existence if only for nuggets of beauty like this:
 

 
What, they couldn't throw in the Carl Everett game-used bat to complete the trifecta of crummy clubhouse guys?

 

[nvalvo]

I just learned from a brimac article that Vazquez is also a longtime roommate, friend and confidant of Xander's, and his promotion is making Bogaerts more comfortable. 

 

[mt8thsw9th]

 
What game did he use a blank white hat in? 

https://www.google.com/search?q=alfredo+aceves+white+hat&client=safari&hl=en&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=JTrQU4LMC8mrigKMq4HYCg&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&biw=320&bih=460

 

[Corsi]

 

Derrick Goold ‏@dgoold  1m
#Cardinals make a move for a catcher. Kottaras moving out, and club working on deal with free-agent Pierzynski. #stlcards News @stltoday
 

 

[soxhop411]

 

The replies to that tweet by STL fans are outstanding. Not one STL fan is happy

 

[Corsi]

The replies to that tweet by STL fans are outstanding. Not one STL fan is happy

 
 

clank ‏@FortClank  55s
@zachasross @Tom_sveb oh shoot I forgot about him. True story: I dreamt he was a rapist a few years ago
 

 

[DanoooME]

Based on ability alone, I'd much rather have Kottaras than FAJP.  At least Kottaras can look at a few pitches and draw a walk.

 

[Van Everyman]

Cafardo on AJ not having hard feelings about his release. Choice quote:

ST. LOUIS — A.J. Pierzynski was what one Red Sox player described as a “dark cloud” over the whole team. He used to look at his cellphone. The catcher dropped too many balls. He didn’t participate with the rest of the team in remembering 2013, mostly because he wasn’t there.

Pierzynski preferred to play with his kids rather than make small talk with his teammates. He preferred to read a book on the team flights rather than participate in jocularity. He didn’t work hard enough pregame, or on preparation. He didn’t seem into it. He was aloof.

...

Pierzynski found it strange that nobody ever said anything to his face, yet once he left there were attacks on his character. According to a team source, a departed Red Sox led the charge against Pierzynski early on and Pierzynski never recovered.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/08/05/red-sox-catcher-pierzynski-takes-high-road-cardinal/fhvp6Q5oeyqN3B8QqOJ1nI/story.html?event=event25
Who was the Departed Captain Negative? Lester? Gomes? The latter was Mr. Chemistry ... the former had his own personal catcher.

 

[Van Everyman]

...personal catcher. Fucking Tapatalk/SoshApp...

 

[JohntheBaptist]

I'm going with Peavy.

 

[JohntheBaptist]

Why would you assume they had to be close with Salty and a position player? The note says it started early this year and he had no chance--could just as easily be that AJP rubbed yet another in a long line of teammates the wrong way, and I'd say it's much more likely to be a pitcher, for reasons AJP's history makes obvious.
 
Peavy seems a pretty all-or-nothing kind of guy when it comes to teammate/ clubhouse stuff and I could see a perceived lack of shit-giving getting to him particularly of the candidates. But then, Peavy and AJP were in CHI together and so presumably this wouldn't have been news to Peavy.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

I'm a big fan of common denominators. This story happens to AJP literally everywhere he goes. Everywhere. This, of course, is no different. AJP is an ass, he's just an unlikable guy. We have nearly 2 decades of sample size to prove this. Whenever he leaves a place people come out and say how much he sucked. It has happened every. single. time.

This isn't a story about the Boston Red Sox. This is a story of AJP going to a club, and not being liked... again. As with every stop he has taken.

End story.

 

[HriniakPosterChild]

Did John Lackey ever have anything nice to say about AJP?

 

[Al Zarilla]

I'm a big fan of common denominators. This story happens to AJP literally everywhere he goes. Everywhere. This, of course, is no different. AJP is an ass, he's just an unlikable guy. We have nearly 2 decades of sample size to prove this. Whenever he leaves a place people come out and say how much he sucked. It has happened every. single. time.

This isn't a story about the Boston Red Sox. This is a story of AJP going to a club, and not being liked... again. As with every stop he has taken.

End story.

Is there an exception with the White Sox, or did the '05 WS championship gloss over the AJP being hated by his teammates thing? I don't remember any stories when he was a Pale Hose. Leopard can't change his spots though. Hmmm, maybe crazy Ozzie got all the attention?