3/17 Celts at Portland...and hopefully, 3/18 Celtics at Utah

Spelunker

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I was so confident this team was going to be in the Finals a month ago. I don't know if they're making it out of the first round now. I dunno. I'm really hoping I'm wrong.
Exactly this. I didn't see how they wouldn't be in the finals for the first....40%?...of the season? But that confidence is entirely gone now. I don't know what wrong with them, but they're nothing like that team they were in December.
 

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Exactly this. I didn't see how they wouldn't be in the finals for the first....40%?...of the season? But that confidence is entirely gone now. I don't know what wrong with them, but they're nothing like that team they were in December.
I don't know how people don't see what's wrong with them. It's Tatum. And maybe Coach Joe
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I’ve been pretty ambivalent about CJM this year but reading some of the stuff here and seeing White didn’t touch the floor in the fourth is a little concerning. Of course at the end of the day it all comes down to Tatum sucking again. If they’re whole and healthy for the playoffs I still take them over anyone. Not concerned about Tatum unless he’s hurt.
 

Tudor Fever

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Benching White for the entire fourth quarter was a coaching move worthy of Grady Little.
 

Auger34

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I don't know how people don't see what's wrong with them. It's Tatum. And maybe Coach Joe
In order:

-Injuries
-Tatum becoming inconsistent and mostly bad
-Smart sucking/Coach Joe not realizing that adjustments are allowed to be made in game

This is the ultimate hindsight is 20/20 thing but…giving him the extension and removing the interim tag may have been a giant mistake. It’s pretty concerning that he has seemed to regress as a coach and shows no inclination of even trying to be an ass kicker (which is what this team sorely needs apparently)
 

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Two guys with serious length.
Contract status is affecting his game. I am convinced of this. He likely has outside forces telling him how he needs numbers this year. They aren’t wrong but that’s not what a contender needs which is why you don’t have rookie year contract year guys as role players. Sucks but that’s the business of this.
 

bankshot1

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Just spitballin' but shouldn't an assistant coach be able to say HEY JOE have you thought putting White back in?

Kind of speaks to a lack of communication issue.

Shit this is the 2nd time CJM has passed over DW in the past couple of weeks.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Just spitballin' but shouldn't an assistant coach be able to say HEY JOE have you thought putting White back in?

Kind of speaks to a lack of communication issue.

Shit this is the 2nd time CJM has passed over DW in the past couple of weeks.
We have absolutely zero high level assistant coaches on the team to assist a rookie HC. A coach gets his best ideas thrown off him by his assistants then signs off on the one he likes best. This will surely be addressed in the offseason but in the playoffs when coaching adjustments matter we will be at a distinct disadvantage. It’s nobody’s fault, well naturally Ime’s but whatever.
 

lars10

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Just spitballin' but shouldn't an assistant coach be able to say HEY JOE have you thought putting White back in?

Kind of speaks to a lack of communication issue.

Shit this is the 2nd time CJM has passed over DW in the past couple of weeks.
Why do assistants need to tell the coach that he should play one of his best players over the past few months for more than twenty minutes a game? Joe seems to like to put out a lineup and basically just stay with it a little too much.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Why do assistants need to tell the coach that he should play one of his best players over the past few months for more than twenty minutes a game? Joe seems to like to put out a lineup and basically just stay with it a little too much.
Last nights game was matchup dependent and I don’t buy Mazzulla’s “I should have played him” PR line at all as this was a terrible time to play White….which is why they didn’t. Not only were the Jazz playing three 7-footers across their front line but two big physical guards as well. Obv, Tatum and Jaylen are out there with two bigs…..this leaves Brogdon or White against two very big, physical guards.

That was a spot for Brogdon last night and not White giving up 25-40 lbs on whichever guard he matched up with while being hunted in switches against a 7-footer while Brogdon thrives against bigs if switches and he’s the ideal matchup versus either of their guards that the Jazz had on the floor.
 

Just a bit outside

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Last nights game was matchup dependent and I don’t buy Mazzulla’s “I should have played him” PR line at all as this was a terrible time to play White….which is why they didn’t. Not only were the Jazz playing three 7-footers across their front line but two big physical guards as well. Obv, Tatum and Jaylen are out there with two bigs…..this leaves Brogdon or White against two very big, physical guards.

That was a spot for Brogdon last night and not White giving up 25-40 lbs on whichever guard he matched up with while being hunted in switches against a 7-footer while Brogdon thrives against bigs if switches and he’s the ideal matchup versus either of their guards that the Jazz had on the floor.
Or you can play your best 5 guys and punish the Jazz big lineup more than they can punish you. I think the Celtics 5 with White has superior talent than the Jazz. Forcing the Jazz to play Olynyk and Lauri on Brown and Tatum should be a huge mismatch for the Celtics.

I don’t know what the right decision was last night but not playing one of our best players for the entire 4th quarter doesn‘t seem ideal. Sometimes you can force the other team to match up.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Or you can play your best 5 guys and punish the Jazz big lineup more than they can punish you. I think the Celtics 5 with White has superior talent than the Jazz. Forcing the Jazz to play Olynyk and Lauri on Brown and Tatum should be a huge mismatch for the Celtics.

I don’t know what the right decision was last night but not playing one of our best players for the entire 4th quarter doesn‘t seem ideal. Sometimes you can force the other team to match up.
This isn’t how matchups work. There isn’t a whole lot a player such as White does that can expose Utah’s big guards…..while there is a lot that they can do against White on the other end where Brogdon is the far superior matchup. White’s a nice player as is Brogdon…..neither should be discussed like they are Tatum or Jaylen. Everyone else on our roster are high end situational role players.
 

128

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This isn’t how matchups work. There isn’t a whole lot a player such as White does that can expose Utah’s big guards…..while there is a lot that they can do against White on the other end where Brogdon is the far superior matchup. White’s a nice player as is Brogdon…..neither should be discussed like they are Tatum or Jaylen. Everyone else on our roster are high end situational role players.
Your points are well-taken, but the idea that Derrick White, who's without question one of the C's best players, needed to sit for all 12 minutes in the fourth quarter is a little much.
 
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bankshot1

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Why do assistants need to tell the coach that he should play one of his best players over the past few months for more than twenty minutes a game? Joe seems to like to put out a lineup and basically just stay with it a little too much.
Right, which is why an assistant coach might suggest to a HC he may have overlooked something or try something different etc. For example, an assistant coachmight suggest he challenge a call. The HC is always empowered to reject the suggestion. An assistant is there to take some burden off the HC and provide another set of eyes and perhaps an overlooked solution.

I'm just wondering if the flow from assistant to HC re in-game strategy may be stagnant. This is now the 2nd time in a couple of weeks CJM has "forgotten" White in the 4th qtr, and last night he was already down one of his better guards with Smart sitting.
 

Just a bit outside

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Your points are well-taken, but the idea that Derrick White, who's without question off the C's best players, needed to sit for all 12 minutes in the fourth quarter is a little much.
So you think they put one of the big guys in White? My point was they would be stuck with Lauri and Olynyk on Brown and Tatum.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Your points are well-taken, but the idea that Derrick White, who's without question one of the C's best players, needed to sit for all 12 minutes in the fourth quarter is a little much.
He played the entire 3Q so it wasn’t like he was stapled to the bench for a whole half……only the final 6-7 minutes when the matchup with Brogdon dictated it. The idea that White was forgotten is ridiculous with Utah playing their two big guards.
 

128

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He played the entire 3Q so it wasn’t like he was stapled to the bench for a whole half……only the final 6-7 minutes when the matchup with Brogdon dictated it. The idea that White was forgotten is ridiculous with Utah playing their two big guards.
We're not talking about Isaiah Thomas here. White is big enough to handle himself in most situations. He played 25 minutes. If he'd played 30, including a few in the fourth quarter, nobody would be talking about this.

Mazzulla said publicly that he probably blew that one. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.
 

HomeRunBaker

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We're not talking about Isaiah Thomas here. White is big enough to handle himself in most situations. He played 25 minutes. If he'd played 30, including a few in the fourth quarter, nobody would be talking about this.

Mazzulla said publicly that he probably blew that one. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one.
He’s done that a few times I suspect it is him doing what Brad did early in his career and not becoming combative with the media their first year. Sure, White “could” do fine in that matchup but you’re arguing that he would do a better defensive job than the bigger guy in Brogdon in that matchup? My take is White would probably be ok but certainly not as good as Brogdon in that specific spot.
 

Tudor Fever

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I see White a lot differently than you do. He is not a defensive sieve, in fact he’s better defensive player than Hauser, Muscala, and Brogdon, all of whom played significant minutes in the fourth quarter. He is a better offensive player than Grant and Kornet, both of whom played significant minutes in the fourth quarter. Plus at the end of the quarter he was a lot fresher than the guys on the floor. Not having him out there was a clear mistake.
 

bankshot1

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Or CJM could have flipped the script and played a fresh White in the last minutes of the 4th qtr. And theoretically could have gotten a better outcome.

Neither of us know.