2024 NFL General Season News and Notes

DanoooME

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I’m curious about what the acquisition cost of Sneed would be. Pairing him and CG would be amazing.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39654076/chiefs-use-nonexclusive-franchise-tag-cb-ljarius-sneed
Signing a non-exclusive tagged guy costs 2 first round picks, unless the signing team can talk the other team into lowering the compensation.

The tag is $19.802M fully guaranteed, which isn't an issue for the Pats, but could be a problem for the Chiefs, since it leaves them around $3.5M in cap space heading into FA.

And I'll just say about Russell that he's just weird, man. He'll be a bargain at the vet minimum for someone, probably shouldn't be the Pats. He'd make sense for a team that is good but has a weakness at QB (you know, like the Jets at this time last year).
 

DanoooME

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Since Peyton Manning retired after the 2015 season, the Broncos have had 13 different starting QBs and only two of them have winning records. Can you name them?

Trevor Siemian (13-11)
Brett Rypien (2-1)
 

steveluck7

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Dalton Schultz staying in Houston. New 3 year deal worth up to $36 million. $23.5 million guaranteed.
That seems pretty reasonable for the first TE off the board in this FA season. Granted, its a re-signing but as it relates to the Patriots, I can’t see Henry getting much more than that on the open market.
 

Deathofthebambino

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4th in TD%
10th in INT%
8th in passer rating
17th in ANY/A
12th in completion%
4 4th quarter comebacks

He might not be peak Seattle Russ but he was at worst average last year. He’s a lot better than almost any other external option out there other than Cousins

There’s plenty of reasons to not want Wilson on the Pats but he’d be dirt cheap against the cap and is still a top 20 QB
He's better than top 20. I don't know what tape people watched on Wilson, but the idea that the guy is done is ridiculous, IMO.

His stats don't even tell the whole story, which place him around top 10-12 in the NFL last season, IMO.

Calling Jeudy, Sutton and Mims "dangerous but flawed" is so overrating these guys. Jerry Jeudy seems like everyone's binky, but we're talking about a guy heading into his 5th NFL season, and he has never averaged more than 65 yards receiving per game in a season. He's always battling some injury or another. I don't hate Sutton, but IMO, he's basically what Davante Parker was with Miami. Mims isn't just flawed, he's a damn kick returner. That's it.

People are shitting on Russell Wilson because he went to his running backs? Why do folks think that is? They had the worst tight end room in football last year. 5 guys combined for 39 receptions. Trautman, Krull, Adkins, Dulcich and Manhertz. They were 30th in rushing yards in the NFL, and 32nd in YPA. They couldn't run, they had shit tight ends, and very, very flawed receivers. The guy that was coming into his own in that receiver room, Tim Patrick, had season ending injuries in the preseason in both of Wilson's seasons.

Despite all of that, they beat the Packers, the Chiefs, the Bills, the Vikings and the Browns in 5 consecutive weeks, and Wilson led the NFL with 4 4th quarter comebacks and had 4 game winning drives. Pretty much the complete opposite of the "not getting it done when it matters" that we've seen here the last couple of years.


I don't want Wilson either, but if the Pats aren't sold on who will be there at #3 and don't like any of the other QB's that much, a Russell Wilson that you basically don't have to pay, freeing up cash to spend all around him is not even close to a bad use of resources. And I've said it before, Wilson is one of the few QB's in the NFL that thrives outdoors and in shitty weather, which kind of matters a lot in the AFC East.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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That seems pretty reasonable for the first TE off the board in this FA season. Granted, its a re-signing but as it relates to the Patriots, I can’t see Henry getting much more than that on the open market.
Maybe that guy Caserio knows what he's doing...

Very reasonable in light of the cap increase. That Houston team is going to be fun to see develop.

If that establishes the TE market I don't think Henry gets as much. He may get three years, but it would be at less AAV. Schultz has fewer miles, is younger, has a comparable skillset and has produced more the past few years (albeit in better QB situations).
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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Maybe that guy Caserio knows what he's doing...

Very reasonable in light of the cap increase. That Houston team is going to be fun to see develop.

If that establishes the TE market I don't think Henry gets as much. He may get three years, but it would be at less AAV. Schultz has fewer miles, is younger, has a comparable skillset and has produced more the past few years (albeit in better QB situations).
Schultz also knows how to block people.
 

67YAZ

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Bears tag Jaylon Johnson.

This makes 3 big contracts on the defensive side for Chicago (Sweat & Edmunds make $20m+). They still have ~$57m in cap space after this and the Bates trade. Bears still have holes at WR2, S, and pass rush, but if they’re clever, can find solutions in free agency that allow them to go into the draft focused on BPA.

Well, they also have that QB situation to sort through. But again, they hold a lot of cards.

Johnson bet on himself by turning down an extension last year, and it has paid off huge for the young man. We’ll see if he wants to roll the dice again this year or if he finds common ground with the Bears. Congrats to Johnson.
 

pappymojo

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Maybe that guy Caserio knows what he's doing...

Very reasonable in light of the cap increase. That Houston team is going to be fun to see develop.

If that establishes the TE market I don't think Henry gets as much. He may get three years, but it would be at less AAV. Schultz has fewer miles, is younger, has a comparable skillset and has produced more the past few years (albeit in better QB situations).
I always thought Nick Caserio was the one who really wanted N'keal Harry.

https://www.nbcsportsboston.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/patriots-personnel-director-nick-caserio-explains-why-pats-drafted-wr-harry/389513/

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/4/26/18517432/nfl-draft-2019-nick-caserio-new-england-patriots-arizona-state-nkeal-harry-first-round

Then there are later attempts to pin that pick on Belichick.

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bill-belichick-reportedly-ignored-scouts-in-drafting-nkeal-harry

At the time, though, it sure felt like Harry was a Caserio pick. I remember a quote from Caserio about him running to turn in the pick but I can't find it now.

Not that I think this means Caserio doesn't know what he is doing. Drafting isn't an exact science.
 

DanoooME

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Seahawks cutting S Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs and probably (haven't confirmed this yet) TE Will Dissly to save a boatload of money on the cap. All decent players but all way overpaid, and they are better off moving on. There's still another 3-6 guys that could go to create even more cap space (Mone, Lockett, Bellore among others).
 

ThePrideofShiner

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Seahawks cutting S Jamal Adams and Quandre Diggs and probably (haven't confirmed this yet) TE Will Dissly to save a boatload of money on the cap. All decent players but all way overpaid, and they are better off moving on. There's still another 3-6 guys that could go to create even more cap space (Mone, Lockett, Bellore among others).
Man, I love Diggs. That one hurts.

As far as Adams, that will go down as one of the worst trades in franchise history. That is possibly even worse than the Jimmy Graham trade, which is saying something.
 

BaseballJones

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The S market is flooded with talent right now. Poyer is probably 5th or 6th best option depending on what you are looking for.
Probably also means he's not going to cost that much, which would be perfect. Get a high quality vet on a short, inexpensive deal, and spend big $$ elsewhere.
 

Cellar-Door

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Bills release former All-Pro safety Jordan Poyer.

He's 32 so no spring chicken, but he's definitely still got some game left and if Dugger leaves, he'd be a nice 2-year vet to fill the gap, depending on cost.
He took a pretty significant step back last year and got obliterated in coverage, given his age I don't think it's a blip, he's probably on the fast track to bench/retired status. If Dugger got an offer sheet they won't match (seems unlikely) there will be better options

How have they released him as a "post June 1 cut" when it's March 6?
It's a designation, so rather than forcing them to hold him which players hate, they designate him June 1 and get to spread out the cap hit, basically like the stretch provision in the NBA
 

103mph Screwball

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Emotionally sucks as a Bills fan seeing these guys go, especially Tre White. But he's coming off a 2nd major lower body injury in 3 seasons, and is 29 years old. Writing was on the wall. Love Poyer also, but is on the wrong side of 30, and was a liability at times last year in the secondary. They actually played him as a nickel/dime LB and moved Rapp in his secondary spot pretty regularly in the 2nd half of the season. Mitch Morse has been a really great center, but has a concussion history, and the depth they're replacing him with shouldn't be much of a fall off. But we'll see.
 

McBride11

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So. Many of those chiefs fans who attended that freezing cold playoff game vs MIA this year may now need to have limbs amputated due to frost bite
https://fox4kc.com/news/70-of-chiefs-fans-who-suffered-frostbite-at-bitter-cold-playoff-game-need-amputations/
I need to know what this guy is doing that involves a grille, lighter, and spray paint.

“I had a lighter that I light the grill with and I also had an aerosol can of spray paint due to the heat with the grill the lighter exploded and then it ignited the spray can,” Daly said describing the situation that led to second degree burns now mostly healed over 17% of his body.
 

Van Everyman

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Emotionally sucks as a Bills fan seeing these guys go, especially Tre White. But he's coming off a 2nd major lower body injury in 3 seasons, and is 29 years old. Writing was on the wall. Love Poyer also, but is on the wrong side of 30, and was a liability at times last year in the secondary. They actually played him as a nickel/dime LB and moved Rapp in his secondary spot pretty regularly in the 2nd half of the season. Mitch Morse has been a really great center, but has a concussion history, and the depth they're replacing him with shouldn't be much of a fall off. But we'll see.
I’m a Pats fan through and through but was pulling for you guys last year in the playoffs. I know what it feels like to lose guys you love and wanted to see win one. Does seem like an important year, will be interesting to see what they do to rebuild the defense with Milano also coming off a pretty big injury.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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Wow. Suddenly a lot of safeties on the FA market.

Can the Pats pull the tag off of Dugger, if they want to?
 

j44thor

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S quickly becoming the RB on the defensive side of the ball. No one wants to pay them.
 

Cellar-Door

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Simmons another guy in his early 30s who declined in performance last year.

Safety is feeling like a position that is mirroring WR.... you don't want to be paying anybody over 31 big money.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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Wow. Suddenly a lot of safeties on the FA market.

Can the Pats pull the tag off of Dugger, if they want to?
How much will this really affect his market? He's still younger than these guys, so kind of in a different category. If anything the tag gives them the chance to match so offers protection no matter what.
 

Cellar-Door

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How much will this really affect his market? He's still younger than these guys, so kind of in a different category. If anything the tag gives them the chance to match so offers protection no matter what.
Yeah, I don't see any reason they pull the tag. They clearly tagged him because they'd like him back but he had a very different view of the safety (or HIS safety) market than they did. So they said... shop around and bring a deal back. My guess is they sign him to 2/26 or 3/39 something like that. I don't think any of the guys released appeal to them more
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Simmons another guy in his early 30s who declined in performance last year.

Safety is feeling like a position that is mirroring WR.... you don't want to be paying anybody over 31 big money.
But with a flooded market, you probably can get a solid veteran S for not that much money. As Rodney and Devin showed us, you can be really good still well into your 30s at that position.
 

Arroyoyo

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Dec 13, 2021
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If I’m the Patriots there’s no way I’m bringing Duggar back now unless it’s an extremely team-friendly deal. He’s just not good enough in coverage and there are so many other options now.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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If I’m the Patriots there’s no way I’m bringing Duggar back now unless it’s an extremely team-friendly deal. He’s just not good enough in coverage and there are so many other options now.
With so many good safeties out there now, it's possible that Dugger gets a cheaper deal than he was hoping for.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I hated the idea of signing Dugger long term to top 10 money. I REALLY hated them tagging him instead of Onwenu. And now that the market has gotten FAT with safeties, I think its clearly a huge misfire.

There are a handful of safeties on the market that are similar players to Dugger. Even if hes younger and, at most 20% better, you're going to pay 200% more for his services as a one-dimensional box safety than you would for an older player on a shorter contract.

I like Dugger, but they didn't read the market or the value of the position well at all. Conversely, theres a real chance that Onwenu makes $15m+ a season in this market, which means if they want him, they'll have to dump $15M+ a season for 3-5 years to keep a guy that is really just an average starting tackle. I'd much rather have paid an extra $6M to franchise him this season in order to work out a mutually beneficial deal for both sides (or find a suitable replacement through free agency/draft over the next year or two).

It's super early and only a few data points, but Im not a fan of some of their choices so far.
 

Cellar-Door

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I hated the idea of signing Dugger long term to top 10 money. I REALLY hated them tagging him instead of Onwenu. And now that the market has gotten FAT with safeties, I think its clearly a huge misfire.

There are a handful of safeties on the market that are similar players to Dugger. Even if hes younger and, at most 20% better, you're going to pay 200% more for his services as a one-dimensional box safety than you would for an older player on a shorter contract.

I like Dugger, but they didn't read the market or the value of the position well at all. Conversely, theres a real chance that Onwenu makes $15m+ a season in this market, which means if they want him, they'll have to dump $15M+ a season for 3-5 years to keep a guy that is really just an average starting tackle. I'd much rather have paid an extra $6M to franchise him this season in order to work out a mutually valuably deal for both sides (or find a suitable replacement through free agency/draft).

It's super early and only a few data points, but Im not a fan of some of their choices so far.
Yeah I totally disagree on basically all these points:
1. I don't think Dugger is one dimensional at all, he plays a lot of roles for the Patriots, the only thing he isn't is a pure over the top cover safety (though he graded much better in coverage in 2022)
2. Dugger is better than these guys, plays a different role than most and younger, that makes a big difference in your starters.
3. You're completely ignoring guarantees here on Onwenu. You aren't paying $6M more, you're paying likely 12-14M in cap more, and a huge guarantee, and you almost certainly couldn't work out a reasonable deal if you franchise tag Onwenu because it makes far more sense financially for him to just sign the tag then go into FA next year.
4. If you don't like Onwenu enough at T to sign him long term... why would you like him enough to pay him a massive amount of cap in this base year when there are similar players on the market (and better ones as well if you don't grade him as a $15M a year type OT).
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Yeah I totally disagree on basically all these points:
1. I don't think Dugger is one dimensional at all, he plays a lot of roles for the Patriots, the only thing he isn't is a pure over the top cover safety (though he graded much better in coverage in 2022)
2. Dugger is better than these guys, plays a different role than most and younger, that makes a big difference in your starters.
3. You're completely ignoring guarantees here on Onwenu. You aren't paying $6M more, you're paying likely 12-14M in cap more, and a huge guarantee, and you almost certainly couldn't work out a reasonable deal if you franchise tag Onwenu because it makes far more sense financially for him to just sign the tag then go into FA next year.
4. If you don't like Onwenu enough at T to sign him long term... why would you like him enough to pay him a massive amount of cap in this base year when there are similar players on the market (and better ones as well if you don't grade him as a $15M a year type OT).
On point #4 - if they’re drafting a QB at 3 and want to keep that guy upright, overpaying one year of a good-not-great tackle when they have more cap space than they will be able to spend efficiently (or at all) seems to be a better use of money than having a worse player at a slightly (or moderately) lower cost

Keeping your rookie QB upright in what is likely going to be a 10+ loss season should be the priority and signing a Fant, Nijman, Eluemunor for RT (or entrusting Calvin Anderson) because you want to save 7M or whatever the difference would be seems like a bad way to start your rookie QB’s career

Why not overpay for one year which gives you two draft classes and free agency 2025 to find a cheaper potentially better alternative at RT?

Keeping Onwenu for 2024 and hitting tackle a couple times in rounds 2-4 this year and rounds 1-2 next year seems to be the best way to find an answer there while also limiting downside risk.

“Wasting” 7-10M for one year in a rebuild year when you have tons of cap space and need to ensure your QB can develop seems like a good plan to me.
 

Cellar-Door

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On point #4 - if they’re drafting a QB at 3 and want to keep that guy upright, overpaying one year of a good-not-great tackle when they have more cap space than they will be able to spend efficiently (or at all) seems to be a better use of money than having a worse player at a slightly (or moderately) lower cost

Keeping your rookie QB upright in what is likely going to be a 10+ loss season should be the priority and signing a Fant, Nijman, Eluemunor for RT (or entrusting Calvin Anderson) because you want to save 7M or whatever the difference would be seems like a bad way to start your rookie QB’s career

Why not overpay for one year which gives you two draft classes and free agency 2025 to find a cheaper potentially better alternative at RT?

Keeping Onwenu for 2024 and hitting tackle a couple times in rounds 2-4 this year and rounds 1-2 next year seems to be the best way to find an answer there while also limiting downside risk.

“Wasting” 7-10M for one year in a rebuild year when you have tons of cap space and need to ensure your QB can develop seems like a good plan to me.
That would be a good case for Tyron Smith who is good but old/injured.

But if you don't think Onwenu is worth a long term deal at reasonable money, then why pay him that instead of going out and getting one of the players who are $15M a year guys? (Williams, etc.) or trade?

Tagging Onwenu is bad because it takes away any incentive for him to sign long term if you think he's good and pays him a ton more than he is worth if you think he isn't.

I think not using the tag was the right move, they are almost certainly still discussing deals if they like him long term.

I'd also note... there is some discussion that he wants to play guard, which is it's own issue.


TL/DR If you think Onwenu is a good RT you should want to sign him long term (which the tag makes much harder), if you don't think he's a good RT, then why pay him WAY more than his market for 1 year instead of getting one of the other tackles who you would then almost certainly rate as the same or better?
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Yeah I totally disagree on basically all these points:
1. I don't think Dugger is one dimensional at all, he plays a lot of roles for the Patriots, the only thing he isn't is a pure over the top cover safety (though he graded much better in coverage in 2022)
He graded better in 2022 because he was barely in coverage. They protected him when he played that role. He played 150 more snaps at cover safety last year than he had in his first 3 seasons combined. He graded as one of the worst coverage safeties in football last season. And when he got split out into the slot for coverage he was even worse, both in receptions (4th worst) AND yards per snap (2nd worst). He gave up a lot of catches, and he gave up a lot of yards.

Being asked to play a lot of roles and then doing most of them poorly doesn't change the calculus. He's as one dimensional as you can get at safety.

2. Dugger is better than these guys, plays a different role than most and younger, that makes a big difference in your starters.
Hes younger. That's about all the difference I see. I think he's a perfectly fine box safety, but the role is easily replaceable for a fraction of the price. If you want to give him more accolades, you could say he wore the green dot for the defense last year and did that role well.

3. You're completely ignoring guarantees here on Onwenu. You aren't paying $6M more, you're paying likely 12-14M in cap more, and a huge guarantee, and you almost certainly couldn't work out a reasonable deal if you franchise tag Onwenu because it makes far more sense financially for him to just sign the tag then go into FA next year.
This is splitting hairs. For all you know, they may want to front load an Onwenu contract, and then the franchise tag ends up being a smaller hit against the cap than a larger one. We can't guess at guarantees/structure/cap hit etc.

And of course you could work out a reasonable deal for Onwenu. Thats the benefit of non-guaranteed contracts. $21M this season with all the risk of injuries/underperformance that come with it, or $52M over the next 4 seasons ($13M a year) with 2/3 of that being guaranteed in the first 2 years. Franchised players work out deals all the time. This is silly.

4. If you don't like Onwenu enough at T to sign him long term... why would you like him enough to pay him a massive amount of cap in this base year when there are similar players on the market (and better ones as well if you don't grade him as a $15M a year type OT).
This question is easy. Because hes the best available option on the market. An average tackle is better than a below-average one.
 
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bakahump

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OK so the tag pays an Avg of the top 10 Salaries right?

But then you see someone like Simmons (who I am guessing...) was one of the top 10, getting cut.

How does that work? Is the tag "OK this instant the top 10 Avg is 13.76 million"

Or is it at some League date? Like June 10th or whatever?

If its at some later date.....if Simmons signs a 2 year 20 Million deal (all gtd for arguments....) a Big name safety goes from making 18.25.....to 10.

IOW.....could all the safety movement and no one seeming to want to pay one.....actually make Dugger pretty cheap this year? Sure he might be more expensive then 20 other teams pay thier safeties.....but If its like 8-10 million are any of us really pissed?
 

j44thor

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Dugger probably isn't in the top 10 available S at this point. He can't cover period and also doesn't appear to have the pass rushing skills of an Adams. He stops the run well, the least important S skill. They seem to be grossly overpaying him because they drafted him. Jabril Peppers is a better Kyle Dugger, no need for 2 of them.
 

Cellar-Door

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OK so the tag pays an Avg of the top 10 Salaries right?

But then you see someone like Simmons (who I am guessing...) was one of the top 10, getting cut.

How does that work? Is the tag "OK this instant the top 10 Avg is 13.76 million"

Or is it at some League date? Like June 10th or whatever?

If its at some later date.....if Simmons signs a 2 year 20 Million deal (all gtd for arguments....) a Big name safety goes from making 18.25.....to 10.

IOW.....could all the safety movement and no one seeming to want to pay one.....actually make Dugger pretty cheap this year? Sure he might be more expensive then 20 other teams pay thier safeties.....but If its like 8-10 million are any of us really pissed?
The tag is set before the deadline and does not change based on new deals.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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If he succeeds there--and I have little reason to believe he won't be the best version of himself--some heads in NE are going to blow clean off.
Meh. He had a pretty solid resurgence in Atlanta, but there wasn't much complaining about it here. People thought they were getting an athletic, good blocking tight end. He's still a pile of shit as a blocker.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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If he succeeds there--and I have little reason to believe he won't be the best version of himself--some heads in NE are going to blow clean off.
We'll just get a bonus Dynasty episode on BBs inability to maximize offensive talent.

He will likely be very good for them, and it will hurt more than him succeeding on a crappy Atlanta team. Wonder if he gets involved in any of their backfield motions. Could be interesting.
 

boca

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I thought teams couldn't talk til Monday and then sign on Wednesday...


EDIT: Wait, he was cut. Different thing.
What’s the difference? Is because they were cut in the 2023 league year?
 

DJnVa

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What’s the difference? Is because they were cut in the 2023 league year?
His contract had not run out--those folks are FA and can't negotiate til next week. If you're cut with at least a year left on contract, you can negotiate whenever.
 

boca

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His contract had not run out--those folks are FA and can't negotiate til next week. If you're cut with at least a year left on contract, you can negotiate whenever.
Cheers.

Was wondering when Ertz signed with Washington this week.