2024 Lineup (What we actually have - no trade speculation.)

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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Hello all. Much like the 2024 pitching thread, I thought I'd kick off the yearly thread to look at the pros and cons of what we actually have for the Lineup. In the past we've done separate infield and outfield threads, but they tended to become conflated anyway.

Sure, we might add or trade guys, but please keep trade speculation and "how I would run the club in the long term" posts to the many other threads we have for that.

Anyway:

40-man as of today:

Catchers:
McGuire LHH​
Wong​

Infielders:
Triston Casas LHH​
Rafael Devers LHH​
David Hamilton LHH​
Pablo Reyes​
Trevor Story​
Enmanuel Valdez LHH​

Outfielders:
Wilyer Abreu LHH​
Bobby Dalbec​
Jarren Duran LHH​
Tyler O'Neill​
Ceddanne Rafaela​
Rob Refsnyder​
Masataka Yoshida LHH​

Minors (not on 40 man)
Nick Yorke ?
Roberto Perez (NRI)​
Jamie Westbrook (NRI)​


From that, I think we have the following right now:

Lineup
C Wong​
1B Casas LHH​
2B Valdez LHH/Reyes​
3B Devers LHH​
SS Story​
LF O'Neill​
CF Duran LHH​
RF Abreu LHH​
DH Masataka Yoshida LHH​

Bench
C McGuire LHH​
OF Refsnyder​
CF/SS Rafela​
UT Reyes​

Minors?
Dalbec, Hamilton, Yorke.​

To go out of order a bit:

My thinking is that for catcher McGuire and Wong are locks, with Perez signed as injury insurance. A new hitting coach might have helped here, since with an uptick on offense, McGuire/Wong seems like a decent option for 2024.​
1B is a lock for Casas. We have no real depth for injury save Dalbec. I don't know who spells him. Reyes?

3B is a lock for Devers. Again, Dalbec is the depth, but Reyes can likely fill in.​
SS is Story. Either he hits or he does not, but it's his spot to lose. Reyes and Rafaela are depth here. Maybe Hamilton, but I would not count on it.​

And from there we're into "maybe" territory.

2B is Reyes, Valdez, Rafaela. Maybe Hamilton, but I would not count on it. This is a fairly weak combo, considering they may be called to play elsewhere.

UT looks like it has to be Reyes for depth at 2B, SS, 3B.​
CF is Duran, Rafaela, Refsnyder, and in a pinch Abreu. That seems deep, but one or more of them could flame out.​
RF is O'Neil, Abreu. . .or anyone.​
LF is Yoshida. . .or anyone.​
DH is open.​

Overall, this looks thin on paper and there are a number of question marks. In terms of "bats you must play" I think the key OF/DH bats are: Yoshida, Oneil, Abreu, Duran. So maybe it works most of the time. Refsnyder might be a monster platoon hitter and a decent OF, so he's a plus. The RHH Rafaela is a good defender but has not shown he can thrive across a ML season. I think you want the worst defender (Yoshida) in the DH spot, unless you acquire a good slugging DH to fill that position. So right now, I'd say the three starting OF are:

CF Duran​
LF Oneil
RF Abreu​
And all that's sort of a best case scenario. I would hesitate to say which OF bat is going to be the most consistent and productive. There's pretty high variance in every one of them. Yoshida could pumpkin again, Oneil might be injured or already have peaked, Abreu could be exposed, Duran is fairly up and down, and Rafaela has much to prove.

Moreover, I don't see a mainstay bat that's not been subject to pressure: Devers, Casas, Story are all vulnerable to over-pressing if the rest of the lineup is stagnant.

Anyway, that's my take on what we actually have at the moment.

Our hitting coaches remain the same, along with (AFAIK) whatever the oranizational philosophy is on hitting. So I'm not expecting much change since last year.


Thoughts?

Anyone want to do an expected OPS breakdown or anything?










(I say again. . .this is a thread is for what we have in hand, not for speculating on what you personally want the Sox to acquire. We might spot an obvious strength or weakness in the staff or something, and it's fair game to identify that, or which player might be the lowest on the totem pole. But solutions, beyond the categorical, are not our concern here.)
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
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Dalbec is an infielder, no?
Probable/possible backup for both Casas and Devers, no?
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Lineup order?

O’Neill R RF
Devers L 3B
Story R SS
Yoshida L DH
Casas L 1B
Abreu L LF
Wong R C
Reyes L 2B
Duran L CF

no clue, really
Need to sign Turner or a decent bat?
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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Dalbec is an infielder, no?
Probable/possible backup for both Casas and Devers, no?
Yes, SS also technically, I suppose. Dalbec's problem, AFAIK, is that he's not good enough of a fielder to support even an averageish bat. He may have taken some defensive strides in AAA or something, but if so I'm unaware.

About that bat. . .he had a resurgent August-Sept in 2021 with Schwarber breaking down and rebuilding his swing. Since then he's hit the ball in AAA, but hasn't done much with his ML exposure in 2022 or 2023. That said. . .v ML pitching he did OPS .755 v. LHP in 2022, and hit .859 in 2023. (As opposed to .606 and .368 v. RHP.)

So if he's a backup 1B/3B, he'd have an extreme platoon role, ideally against LHP starters. He might have a place on some clubs, and could (if one squints) have a place on this one.

But I don't think his extreme platoon style very easily meshes with Cora's managing style of preferred days off in advance regardless of who is pitching or what the game situation is.

I'd be surprised if he makes the club, but perhaps he fits.

If his bat were marginally better against RHP, I could see him as a platooning IF/DH.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
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We do need righty bats
I think he makes it if we don’t sign Turner or someone like that
 

simplicio

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It feels to me like a bad idea to count on both Duran and Abreu in starting roles as I don't buy either as fully proven. I'd like to trade one to limit that risk. I also want to give Yoshida another year in the OF and not just write him off as full time DH.

I don't want Dalbec and his K rate anywhere near Boston either. Drury still seems to me like the ideal trade target as a RHB 2B who can field well and also back up Casas.
 

Rovin Romine

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We do need righty bats
I think he makes it if we don’t sign Turner or someone like that
The 26 man roster has a maximum of 13 pitchers, which we will certainly open the season with as arms are not fully stretched out.

That leaves 13 position players:
Wong/McGuire, Casas, Valdez, Story, Devers, Oneil, Duran, Abreu, Yoshida gives you 10 necessary players (Yoshida at DH.)​
That leaves 3. Ideally you want a backup OF, and Refsynder seems a lock due to his platoon hitting and versatility. You also want a backup IF to spell the players. Pablo Reyes seems the man there. That leaves one spot open. On the current 40 man, we have:
Rafaela, Dalbec, Hamilton. (I think that's everyone.)​
Rafaela can play excellent CF and good SS, though his bat is a question. He also has speed.
Dalbec can play 1B and 3B but has an extreme platoon bat.
Hamilton is a middle infielder with speed who may not hit at all.

So, I could see either Rafael or Dalbec making the club. But either way the depth is kind of thin in terms of coverage.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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It feels to me like a bad idea to count on both Duran and Abreu in starting roles as I don't buy either as fully proven. I'd like to trade one to limit that risk. I also want to give Yoshida another year in the OF and not just write him off as full time DH.

I don't want Dalbec and his K rate anywhere near Boston either. Drury still seems to me like the ideal trade target as a RHB 2B who can field well and also back up Casas.
No trade/FA speculation please; we have at least 5 other active threads for that. Go ahead and identify a problem with the lineup or the defense. Go ahead and point out that a RHH 2B would fix some problems.

But this is to see what we actually have and whether it's viable or not.
 

simplicio

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Sure, I'll go with: we still have a hole at 2B, one too many LHB OF, two too few RHB in general, no 1B backup and no immediate lock for DH/nobody on the bench I'm happy to DH on a regular basis.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Offense could be fine if Story, Duran, and O’Neill hit to their 90th percentile projections, if not it could be pretty bad. Trading for Drury and signing Rhys Hoskins would make me feel a lot better (although I know we aren’t supposed to talk about that here). They are two bats short.
 

plucy

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Aug 2, 2006
426
a rock and a hard place
Of the current depth chart I have eleven on the opening day roster;
OF (5) Yoshida, O’Neill, Duran, Abreu, Refsnyder
IF (3) Casas, Story, Devers
Super Utility (1): Rafaela
C (2) Wong, McGuire
That leaves two slots: Starting 2B, Backup CIF
2B should be a ST competition among Valdez, Reyes, Hamilton, Sogard, Westbrook and other NRIs. Yorke and Meidroth should be in AAA by mid-year, probably sooner.
I don’t see a huge bump in WAR from external options.
A RHH CIF would allow Casas and Devers to DH, maybe 300 PAs between them, with Yoshida getting the rest.
 

Rovin Romine

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Sure, I'll go with: we still have a hole at 2B, one too many LHB OF, two too few RHB in general, no 1B backup and no immediate lock for DH/nobody on the bench I'm happy to DH on a regular basis.
Perfect. It's what we have. So we may as well squint at it and see the pros and cons.

I'm not sure about the DH though. I think with the current roster that's Yoshida most of the time. That lets you play Duran/ONeil/Abreu, with Refsnyder spelling. Or Rafaela spelling also.

The issue with Yoshida at DH is that if you use him in the field to rest outfielders, he's limited to displacing whomever your LF is. While that's not nothing, it's really subbing into an area we're potentially full of subs for already. Compare that to last year when the DH (Turner) was used as an infield sub. . .and we really needed an infield sub at points.

Now we have (knock on wood) Devers, a fully healed up Story, and a fully acclimated Casas. And the pieces we have include Reyes, who can back up most of those infield positions.

Maybe Ale is right though and Dalbec gets the nod over Rafaela?
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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There’s a lot of BIG IF’s across the roster but I’m pretty bullish on it as is if nothing else happens at all. (Unlike starting pitching which won’t be discussed further)
I’d like to see Turner back but some team sees him as a full time starter I’m sure- while he’d likely share DH duties at 50% with Yoshida and get maybe one start per week either at 3B or 1B to rest Devers, Casas respectively. I’ll keep Dalbec here since he’s “what we have” not what we’d like…. And if he’s used carefully he could put together a decent season.
1B Casas
2B Rafaela/Reyes platoon
SS Story
3B Devers
LF Yoshida/Duran platoon
CF Rafaela/Duran platoon
RF Abreu/Oneill platoon
C Wong/McGuire
DH O’Neill/Yoshida/Dalbec
13th guy- Refsnyder
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Also Rafaela needs to play every day whether it’s CF or MiF (either one position or split) and whether it’s in Woosta or MLB.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
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There’s a lot of BIG IF’s across the roster but I’m pretty bullish on it as is if nothing else happens at all.





DH O’Neill/Yoshida/Dalbec
O'Neil won a couple of gold gloves not too long ago as a LF. His main issue is staying healthy. So maybe you DH him to help with that. . .but he should likely be one of the 3 starting OFs.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
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Oct 31, 2013
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Yeah Oneill is likely playing RF at home and LF on the road
(If Rafaela or Duran is in CF)
Abreu DH at home, RF on the road
Masa LF at home, DH on the road

Reffy bench OF

Duran and Rafaela in CF one in AAA one starting in MLB is my guess
Reffy and O’Neill probably short term backup CF but if starter is hurt seriously the AAA is coming up for full time to replace
 
Last edited:

simplicio

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Also Rafaela needs to play every day whether it’s CF or MiF (either one position or split) and whether it’s in Woosta or MLB.
I agree with that, but to start the season at least I don't think it should be in Boston. If we do end up starting both Abreu and Duran, I think we're very likely to be wanting another option by mid-season, so getting him as much experience as possible to that point feels important to me.

Half a season also feels like enough time to give Yoshida to show improvement in LF, if he stays out there.
 

Niastri

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Yes, SS also technically, I suppose. Dalbec's problem, AFAIK, is that he's not good enough of a fielder to support even an averageish bat. He may have taken some defensive strides in AAA or something, but if so I'm unaware.

About that bat. . .he had a resurgent August-Sept in 2021 with Schwarber breaking down and rebuilding his swing. Since then he's hit the ball in AAA, but hasn't done much with his ML exposure in 2022 or 2023. That said. . .v ML pitching he did OPS .755 v. LHP in 2022, and hit .859 in 2023. (As opposed to .606 and .368 v. RHP.)

So if he's a backup 1B/3B, he'd have an extreme platoon role, ideally against LHP starters. He might have a place on some clubs, and could (if one squints) have a place on this one.

But I don't think his extreme platoon style very easily meshes with Cora's managing style of preferred days off in advance regardless of who is pitching or what the game situation is.

I'd be surprised if he makes the club, but perhaps he fits.

If his bat were marginally better against RHP, I could see him as a platooning IF/DH.
Dreams of Dalbec becoming an everyday player seem to be past... But he still could bea very productive backup at three positions and an excellent platoon pinch hitter, if his at bats are limited to LHP as much as possible.

Even when he starts, he should only hit against righties if the game is already out of hand (one way or the other).

If that means he occasionally forces an opposing manager to pull a starter early, and Cora has to pinch hit for Dalbec, that's a feature not a bug.

We had two guys on the '13 team that had extreme platoon splits, and managed to do ok that year... We have a clone in Dalbec, yet he's languished in AAA, unnecessarily in my opinion.
 

grepal

New Member
Jul 20, 2005
193
Hello all. Much like the 2024 pitching thread, I thought I'd kick off the yearly thread to look at the pros and cons of what we actually have for the Lineup. In the past we've done separate infield and outfield threads, but they tended to become conflated anyway.

Sure, we might add or trade guys, but please keep trade speculation and "how I would run the club in the long term" posts to the many other threads we have for that.

Anyway:

40-man as of today:

Catchers:
McGuire LHH​
Wong​

Infielders:
Triston Casas LHH​
Rafael Devers LHH​
David Hamilton LHH​
Pablo Reyes​
Trevor Story​
Enmanuel Valdez LHH​

Outfielders:
Wilyer Abreu LHH​
Bobby Dalbec​
Jarren Duran LHH​
Tyler O'Neill​
Ceddanne Rafaela​
Rob Refsnyder​
Masataka Yoshida LHH​

Minors (not on 40 man)
Nick Yorke ?​
Roberto Perez (NRI)​
Jamie Westbrook (NRI)​


From that, I think we have the following right now:

Lineup
C Wong​
1B Casas LHH​
2B Valdez LHH/Reyes​
3B Devers LHH​
SS Story​
LF O'Neill​
CF Duran LHH​
RF Abreu LHH​
DH Masataka Yoshida LHH​

Bench
C McGuire LHH​
OF Refsnyder​
CF/SS Rafela​
UT Reyes​

Minors?
Dalbec, Hamilton, Yorke.​

To go out of order a bit:

My thinking is that for catcher McGuire and Wong are locks, with Perez signed as injury insurance. A new hitting coach might have helped here, since with an uptick on offense, McGuire/Wong seems like a decent option for 2024.​
1B is a lock for Casas. We have no real depth for injury save Dalbec. I don't know who spells him. Reyes?​
3B is a lock for Devers. Again, Dalbec is the depth, but Reyes can likely fill in.​
SS is Story. Either he hits or he does not, but it's his spot to lose. Reyes and Rafaela are depth here. Maybe Hamilton, but I would not count on it.​

And from there we're into "maybe" territory.

2B is Reyes, Valdez, Rafaela. Maybe Hamilton, but I would not count on it. This is a fairly weak combo, considering they may be called to play elsewhere.​
UT looks like it has to be Reyes for depth at 2B, SS, 3B.​
CF is Duran, Rafaela, Refsnyder, and in a pinch Abreu. That seems deep, but one or more of them could flame out.​
RF is O'Neil, Abreu. . .or anyone.​
LF is Yoshida. . .or anyone.​
DH is open.​

Overall, this looks thin on paper and there are a number of question marks. In terms of "bats you must play" I think the key OF/DH bats are: Yoshida, Oneil, Abreu, Duran. So maybe it works most of the time. Refsnyder might be a monster platoon hitter and a decent OF, so he's a plus. The RHH Rafaela is a good defender but has not shown he can thrive across a ML season. I think you want the worst defender (Yoshida) in the DH spot, unless you acquire a good slugging DH to fill that position. So right now, I'd say the three starting OF are:

CF Duran​
LF Oneil​
RF Abreu​
And all that's sort of a best case scenario. I would hesitate to say which OF bat is going to be the most consistent and productive. There's pretty high variance in every one of them. Yoshida could pumpkin again, Oneil might be injured or already have peaked, Abreu could be exposed, Duran is fairly up and down, and Rafaela has much to prove.

Moreover, I don't see a mainstay bat that's not been subject to pressure: Devers, Casas, Story are all vulnerable to over-pressing if the rest of the lineup is stagnant.

Anyway, that's my take on what we actually have at the moment.

Our hitting coaches remain the same, along with (AFAIK) whatever the oranizational philosophy is on hitting. So I'm not expecting much change since last year.


Thoughts?

Anyone want to do an expected OPS breakdown or anything?










(I say again. . .this is a thread is for what we have in hand, not for speculating on what you personally want the Sox to acquire. We might spot an obvious strength or weakness in the staff or something, and it's fair game to identify that, or which player might be the lowest on the totem pole. But solutions, beyond the categorical, are not our concern here.)
That is a last place lineup if I ever saw one. Yuck! Couple that with our rotation of Bello, Sale, ?,?,? and it is obvious Craig Breslow has a ton and a half of work to do in the next month or so.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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That is a last place lineup if I ever saw one. Yuck! Couple that with our rotation of Bello, Sale, ?,?,? and it is obvious Craig Breslow has a ton and a half of work to do in the next month or so.
Disagree. But probably won’t convince anyone else. Probably not top 5 but still top 10. The weakness is starting pitching
 

Cassvt2023

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I think they should give Rafaela every chance to earn the 2B job. An elite defender should be able to handle it, as Story did his first year here. That'd be a strong D up the middle and help our pitchers a ton. Have him bat in the 9 hole to take the pressure off. He has speed and some pop and is a RHH. I think the team believes that Duran made strides last year in CF, and I liked him leading off, turning singles into doubles a ton.
 

simplicio

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The problem with giving him that chance is they can't responsibly do it without having a backup option better than Pablo Reyes in place. The risk of Cedanne's bat simply being an untenable bust is too high, and it's a risk compounded by the presence of Duran and/or Abreu in the lineup, as neither of those guys have proven yet that they can hit MLB pitching without the aid of a .400+ BABIP.
 

Rovin Romine

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I think they should give Rafaela every chance to earn the 2B job. An elite defender should be able to handle it, as Story did his first year here. That'd be a strong D up the middle and help our pitchers a ton. Have him bat in the 9 hole to take the pressure off. He has speed and some pop and is a RHH. I think the team believes that Duran made strides last year in CF, and I liked him leading off, turning singles into doubles a ton.
That seems like a possibility.

To write it out. . .Rafaela's main strength is his CF defense. His RH bat might be a plus. Or not. He's a hacker who hit will in the minors, but has only one year (last year) of facing pitchers at the AA level or above. His ML OPS+ was 78, but he had only 83 at bats. SSS, but what's concerning is he started "hot" (relatively speaking) and then finished ice cold, which indicates there may be an effective book out there on him. I'm not sure moving him to 2B is the best use of his talent. And I'm not sure his bat is ready. I wouldn't want to combine the two - learning a new position and learning to hit ML pitching. (Unless, of course, Rafaela has the rare personality to take to that sort of dynamic.)

I think there are three main candidates for 2B at the moment. Valdez, Reyes, and Rafaela.

Since Reyes will need to spell other positions, you have to have someone to play 2B when Reyes does not.

I'd guess that's probably Valdez - if he shows any improvement in his fielding.
 

Rovin Romine

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A reminder to please keep trade speculation and "how I would run the club in the long term" posts to the many other threads we have for that.

Well, today we have our first major update with the trade of Chris sale for Vaughn Grissom. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grissva01.shtml

He joins Valdez, Reyes, and Rafaela as options for 2B and probably leapfrogs them all into the starting 2B position. (With Reyes in the UT role.) Valdez would seem to be the shortest figure on the totem pole. We will see what the 40-man move is.

Of the 26 men on the active roster, we are likely going to carry 13 position players and go with the maximum number of pitchers.

40-man (putting Grissom in for the moment), with the 13 likely 26 man players bolded:

Catchers:
McGuire LHH
Wong

Infielders:
Triston Casas LHH
Rafael Devers LHH
Trevor Story
Vaughn Grissom
Pablo Reyes
Enmanuel Valdez LHH​
David Hamilton LHH​
Bobby Dalbec​

Outfielders:
Masataka Yoshida LHH
Tyler O'Neill
Wilyer Abreu LHH
Jarren Duran LHH
Rob Refsnyder
Ceddanne Rafaela

Minors (not on 40 man)
Nick Yorke ?​
Roberto Perez (NRI)​
Jamie Westbrook (NRI)​


From that, I think we have the following right now:

Lineup
C Wong​
1B Casas LHH​
2B Grissom​
3B Devers LHH​
SS Story​
LF O'Neill​
CF Duran LHH​
RF Abreu LHH​
DH Masataka Yoshida LHH​

Bench
C McGuire LHH​
OF Refsnyder​
CF/SS Rafela​
UT Reyes​

Minors?
Dalbec, Hamilton, Yorke.​
 
Last edited:

Just a bit outside

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A reminder to please keep trade speculation and "how I would run the club in the long term" posts to the many other threads we have for that.

Well, today we have our first major update with the trade of Chris sale for Vaughn Graham. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grissva01.shtml

He joins Valdez, Reyes, and Rafaela as options for 2B and probably leapfrogs them all into the starting 2B position. (With Reyes in the UT role.) Valdez would seem to be the shortest figure on the totem pole. We will see what the 40-man move is.

Of the 26 men on the active roster, we are likely going to carry 13 position players and go with the maximum number of pitchers.

40-man (putting Graham in for the moment), with the 13 likely 26 man players bolded:

Catchers:
McGuire LHH
Wong

Infielders:
Triston Casas LHH
Rafael Devers LHH
Trevor Story
Vaughn Graham
Pablo Reyes
Enmanuel Valdez LHH​
David Hamilton LHH​
Bobby Dalbec​

Outfielders:
Masataka Yoshida LHH
Tyler O'Neill
Wilyer Abreu LHH
Jarren Duran LHH
Rob Refsnyder
Ceddanne Rafaela

Minors (not on 40 man)
Nick Yorke ?​
Roberto Perez (NRI)​
Jamie Westbrook (NRI)​


From that, I think we have the following right now:

Lineup
C Wong​
1B Casas LHH​
2B Graham​
3B Devers LHH​
SS Story​
LF O'Neill​
CF Duran LHH​
RF Abreu LHH​
DH Masataka Yoshida LHH​

Bench
C McGuire LHH​
OF Refsnyder​
CF/SS Rafela​
UT Reyes​

Minors?
Dalbec, Hamilton, Yorke.​
“Moonlight” finally getting his chance!
 

BigSoxFan

Member
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May 31, 2007
46,914
A reminder to please keep trade speculation and "how I would run the club in the long term" posts to the many other threads we have for that.

Well, today we have our first major update with the trade of Chris sale for Vaughn Graham. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/g/grissva01.shtml

He joins Valdez, Reyes, and Rafaela as options for 2B and probably leapfrogs them all into the starting 2B position. (With Reyes in the UT role.) Valdez would seem to be the shortest figure on the totem pole. We will see what the 40-man move is.

Of the 26 men on the active roster, we are likely going to carry 13 position players and go with the maximum number of pitchers.

40-man (putting Graham in for the moment), with the 13 likely 26 man players bolded:

Catchers:
McGuire LHH
Wong

Infielders:
Triston Casas LHH
Rafael Devers LHH
Trevor Story
Vaughn Graham
Pablo Reyes
Enmanuel Valdez LHH​
David Hamilton LHH​
Bobby Dalbec​

Outfielders:
Masataka Yoshida LHH
Tyler O'Neill
Wilyer Abreu LHH
Jarren Duran LHH
Rob Refsnyder
Ceddanne Rafaela

Minors (not on 40 man)
Nick Yorke ?​
Roberto Perez (NRI)​
Jamie Westbrook (NRI)​


From that, I think we have the following right now:

Lineup
C Wong​
1B Casas LHH​
2B Graham​
3B Devers LHH​
SS Story​
LF O'Neill​
CF Duran LHH​
RF Abreu LHH​
DH Masataka Yoshida LHH​

Bench
C McGuire LHH​
OF Refsnyder​
CF/SS Rafela​
UT Reyes​

Minors?
Dalbec, Hamilton, Yorke.​
Just FYI, you have Grissom as “Graham”. Otherwise, I think this is a good summary.
 

Cassvt2023

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Duran LF
Grissom 2B
Devers 3B
Casas 1B
Story SS
Yoshida DH
O'neil RFWong C
Rafaela CF

McGuire
Abreu
Dalbec
Hamilton
 

Rovin Romine

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Miami (oh, Miami!)
Duran LF
Grissom 2B
Devers 3B
Casas 1B
Story SS
Yoshida DH
O'neil RF
Wong C
Rafaela CF
Shall we talk line-ups? Cora will lead off Duran, and he's not a bad choice. The catchers suggest a platoon as Wong hits RHP and McGuire hits LHP. . .but Cora generally does not jigger his catchers to maximize that.

v RHP:
Duran CF LHB​
Grissom 2b RHB​
Devers 3B LHB​
Casas 1B LHB​
Story SS RHB​
Yoshida DH LHB​
Abreu RF LHB​
Wong C LHB​
Refsnyder LF RHB​
v LHP:
Refsnyder LF RHB​
Reyes 2B RHB​
Devers 3B LHB​
Casas 1B LHB​
Story SS RHB​
Yoshida DH LHB​
O'Neil RF RHB​
McGuire C RHB​
Rafela CF RHB​
 

Cassvt2023

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@Rovin Romine please tell me that Refsnyder is not our everyday LF?? I'd argue that with O'Neil on board, Ref is borderline expendable. I like Rafaela and his glove as well as super utility potential and speed better. I agree with Reyes as the backup MI over my suggestion of Hamilton.
 

pjheff

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Shall we talk line-ups? Cora will lead off Duran, and he's not a bad choice. The catchers suggest a platoon as Wong hits RHP and McGuire hits LHP. . .but Cora generally does not jigger his catchers to maximize that.

v RHP:
Duran CF LHB​
Grissom 2b RHB​
Devers 3B LHB​
Casas 1B LHB​
Story SS RHB​
Yoshida DH LHB​
Abreu RF LHB​
Wong C LHB​
Refsnyder LF RHB​
v LHP:
Refsnyder LF RHB​
Reyes 2B RHB​
Devers 3B LHB​
Casas 1B LHB​
Story SS RHB​
Yoshida DH LHB​
O'Neil RF RHB​
McGuire C RHB​
Rafela CF RHB​
I’ve seen it posted a couple of times now, but do we really expect our 2Bmen to be hitting second?
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I’ve seen it posted a couple of times now, but do we really expect our 2Bmen to be hitting second?
Not a chance. At least not at the start of the year.

Based on what they have now, I'd expect Devers, Story, Casas, and Yoshida to be the 2-5 hitters in some order. It's a bit lefty-heavy, but I think the only RHH they've currently got who might crack it to start the season is O'Neil.

Edit to add: I'm wary of leading off with Duran too. If his BABIP fueled resurgence last year is real, great. If his BABIP comes down to normal levels, I don't think he's lead off material.
 

Ale Xander

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I think either Grissom or Duran will leadoff, (if not O’neill) but the second one won’t be 2nd
I think Cora will want the veterans (including Story) to get at bats at the higher analytical spots including 2nd



Duran leadoff v RHP and Grissom (have to look at splits though tbh but he’s a high avg and low SLG guy in general and still has decent speed) v LHP makes sense

Edit: Beaten by RedHawks, generally
 

pjheff

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Not a chance. At least not at the start of the year.

Based on what they have now, I'd expect Devers, Story, Casas, and Yoshida to be the 2-5 hitters in some order. It's a bit lefty-heavy, but I think the only RHH they've currently got who might crack it to start the season is O'Neil.

Edit to add: I'm wary of leading off with Duran too. If his BABIP fueled resurgence last year is real, great. If his BABIP comes down to normal levels, I don't think he's lead off material.
I agree, and I think that leadoff is Duran’s to lose. Hernandez could crack that five if signed.

Edited to add: I’d be surprised if Grissom is anywhere near the top of the lineup, at least to start the season.
 

Ale Xander

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Vs RHP at Fenway I am thinking:

Duran L CF
Devers L 3B
Story R SS (or O’Neill)
Yoshida L LF
Casas L 1B
O’Neill R RF (or Story)
Abreu L DH
Wong R C
Grissom R 2B
 
Last edited:

simplicio

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Ref should basically never see RHP. O'Neill wasn't great against them this year, but still has a 107 wrc+ vs righties.

Grissom also hasn't demonstrated a need to be platooned. He was obviously was a mess in MLB this year and couldn't hit LHP at all, but he was significantly better against them last year, and both are pretty small samples regardless. He's also a high average guy so I wouldn't be surprised to see him early in the lineup, but I don't think he'll start there.
 

pjheff

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Vs RHP at Fenway I am thinking:

Duran L CF
Devers L RF
Story R SS (or O’Neill)
Yoshida L LF
Casas L 1B
O’Neill R RF (or Story)
Abreu L DH
Wong L C
Grissom R 2B
With a couple of caveats — Devers at 3B, Yoshida at DH, Abreu in the OF, and Wong being R — this is closer to what I envision (although I think we still add a bat this offseason).
 

Ale Xander

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Oct 31, 2013
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Vs LHP (non-elite) on the road I am thinking:

Grissom R 2B
Story R SS
Devers L 3B
O’Neill R LF
Yoshida L DH
Refsnyder R CF (or Duran or Abreu)
Casas L 1B
McGuire/Wong C
Abreu L RF (or Duran or Refsnyder)

(this is all assuming Rafaela playing every day at Worcester. But they can also get rid of Refsnyder and then Rafaela plays but Rafaela has options but has to play every day and Reffy is better to bench)

would be better if they trade Masa for a SP
 
Last edited:

kazuneko

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Shall we talk line-ups? Cora will lead off Duran, and he's not a bad choice. The catchers suggest a platoon as Wong hits RHP and McGuire hits LHP. . .but Cora generally does not jigger his catchers to maximize that.

v RHP:
Duran CF LHB​
Grissom 2b RHB​
Devers 3B LHB​
Casas 1B LHB​
Story SS RHB​
Yoshida DH LHB​
Abreu RF LHB​
Wong C LHB​
Refsnyder LF RHB​
v LHP:
Refsnyder LF RHB​
Reyes 2B RHB​
Devers 3B LHB​
Casas 1B LHB​
Story SS RHB​
Yoshida DH LHB​
O'Neil RF RHB​
McGuire C RHB​
Rafela CF RHB​
Kinda surprised that you advocate making Refsynder the full-time LF. O'Neil has been the both the better hitter and fielder in his career.
He's also good enough in the field that you could shift Duran to LF and have O'Neil in CF against RHP. I'd move O'Neil to RF against LHP and play Rafaella in CF on those days. So the LF platoon would be Duran/Refsnyder, with O'Neil full-time but shifting from CF to RF depending on the pitcher, allowing Rafaella to specialize against LHP while he's adjusting to Major League pitching. To me the real benefit of having O'Neil is being able to shift Duran to LF. I have zero interest in ever seeing Duran in center again..
 

derekson

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With Grissom on the team now it's hard to see Rafaela getting enough playing time to start him on the MLB roster unless another outfielder gets traded.

I'd expect the lineups to be:

vs RHP:
CF Duran
3B Devers
SS Story
1B Casas
DH Yoshida
RF O'Neill
LF Abreu
C Wong
2B Grissom

vs. LHP:
LF Refsnyder
3B Devers
SS Story
1B Casas
RF O'Neill
DH Yoshida
C Wong
CF Duran
2B Grissom

I'd imagine Duran and Abreu probably each get some starts against LHP rather than one or the other starting in all of those games. And it's anyone's guess which of O'Neill and Abreu plays which outfield corner.
 

Cassvt2023

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Ref should basically never see RHP. O'Neill wasn't great against them this year, but still has a 107 wrc+ vs righties.

Grissom also hasn't demonstrated a need to be platooned. He was obviously was a mess in MLB this year and couldn't hit LHP at all, but he was significantly better against them last year, and both are pretty small samples regardless. He's also a high average guy so I wouldn't be surprised to see him early in the lineup, but I don't think he'll start there.
Maybe he won't start there, which i get: young guy, new organization, unproven at MLB level. But he did have a .339 OBP over 62 MLB games, and a .407 mark across four minor league seasons. The guy gets on base .
 

chawson

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I think the picture is not yet complete but our primary 2023 centerfielder is O’Neill.
 

kazuneko

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I think the picture is not yet complete but our primary 2023 centerfielder is O’Neill.
Yes, please...
Barring anything changing, of course. Ideally Rafaella hits well and is taking over from him by mid-season, but that's a best case scenario.
 

Rovin Romine

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I think you have Wong and McGuire mixed up on how they hit. Wong hits from the right side and McGuire from the left side...
Yep. . .and chaos ensues, apparently.

@Rovin Romine please tell me that Refsnyder is not our everyday LF?? I'd argue that with O'Neil on board, Ref is borderline expendable. I like Rafaela and his glove as well as super utility potential and speed better. I agree with Reyes as the backup MI over my suggestion of Hamilton.
Everyday? No - you're correct. (I had to jump on a call and hit "post" without double checking.)

O'Neill should get a lot of those ABs against Refsnyder's weak side.

Kinda surprised that you advocate making Refsynder the full-time LF. O'Neil has been the both the better hitter and fielder in his career.
He's also good enough in the field that you could shift Duran to LF and have O'Neil in CF against RHP. I'd move O'Neil to RF against LHP and play Rafaella in CF on those days. So the LF platoon would be Duran/Refsnyder, with O'Neil full-time but shifting from CF to RF depending on the pitcher, allowing Rafaella to specialize against LHP while he's adjusting to Major League pitching. To me the real benefit of having O'Neil is being able to shift Duran to LF. I have zero interest in ever seeing Duran in center again..
See above. IIRC, Duran is most comfortable in CF, and so that's probably where Cora plays him the most, just like he did in 22 and 23. However, if O'Neil is capable of covering CF, what you're saying makes a good deal of sense. We'll see how it goes.

And why down on Duran in CF? He vastly improved from 22 to 23.

I’ve seen it posted a couple of times now, but do we really expect our 2Bmen to be hitting second?
Eventually, yes. High bat to ball skills/OPB, decent footspeed, intermittent power. That's probably not the opening day lineup though.