Wow that SUCKS. I like Bourne a lot. But yeah, just play the kids and see how it goes. Probably not well, but if so, it's a higher draft pick.
Agree, and I imagine there's no choice now that Parker is likely out a while too. Might as well roll with Douglas, Thornton and Boutte as the top 3 and see how they do.Jesus fucking christ. Just play the kids, whatever. Get Boutte and even Thornton a ton of snaps now, see what you have. The season is done anyway.
injury luck definitely exists, since injuries tend to be heavily luck/chance based. Injury TALENT generally doesn't.Injury "luck," good or bad, is one of those things that doesn't exist ... and yet it does.
Yeah, I didn't phrase it exactly as I meant. I was more thinking that some teams have good luck and some bad luck in any given season with injuriesinjury luck definitely exists, since injuries tend to be heavily luck/chance based. Injury TALENT generally doesn't.
FWIW, there were years when the Pats were absolutely ravaged by injuries and were still excellent. I always thought that was part of BB's brilliance -- building depth in a way that few NFL teams valued.Injury "luck," good or bad, is one of those things that doesn't exist ... and yet it does.
The Patriots have had some really good injury luck in past few years, both in terms of their own players and the timing and importance of injuries to opponents. Now they're getting the mother of all corrections.Injury "luck," good or bad, is one of those things that doesn't exist ... and yet it does.
Ah okay, sorry. Seen so many non contacts this year and didn’t watch the game.His knee got trapped under the DB as he was getting tackled out of bounds. It was 100% a contact injury. Miami also looks to have grass.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10/30/sports/patriots-receiver-kendrick-bourne-is-out-season-with-torn-acl/Without Bourne, one of their more dynamic and productive playmakers, the Patriots have JuJu Smith-Schuster, Demario Douglas, Jalen Reagor, Tyquan Thornton, and Kayshon Boutte available at wide receiver. Veteran DeVante Parker’s status remains uncertain, as he suffered a head injury during Sunday’s game and will enter concussion protocol.
“It’s tough,” Smith-Schuster said. “You talk about your two best guys on the field, they go down. Us, the backups, we have to step up.”
probably did, fully healthy (including the line) I think this is a .500ish team same as the last few years. The torrent of early O-line injuries/illnesses sunk the season before it started.If they didn’t already suck, I’d feel like injuries had ruined the season.
I don't disagree but this is very unlikely to go well. Two of these guys can't beat out JJSS's corpse in practice.Agree, and I imagine there's no choice now that Parker is likely out a while too. Might as well roll with Douglas, Thornton and Boutte as the top 3 and see how they do.
I don't know what's worse, if he's taking jabs due to his lack of usage or if he's just accepted the reality of being the backup and is talking about it openly.I’m more bullish on Juju than most here but the bolded kind of made me laugh:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2023/10/30/sports/patriots-receiver-kendrick-bourne-is-out-season-with-torn-acl/
Or—and I had to read it a few times to get there—he’s saying us AND the backups. Either way, I laughed a little.I don't know what's worse, if he's taking jabs due to his lack of usage or if he's just accepted the reality of being the backup and is talking about it openly.
the 2003 team had some injuries but the OL only missed 6 total games to injuries, the starting secondary only missed 2 total games, the key players on the front 7 missed 21 cumulatively (Vrabel led with 7 games missed, Washington 6)FWIW, there were years when the Pats were absolutely ravaged by injuries and were still excellent. I always thought that was part of BB's brilliance -- building depth in a way that few NFL teams valued.
Hell, in the 2003 season we were smacked hard by a ton of injuries early in the season. I vividly recall thinking, when we were 2-2, that if we could just hold serve for the next ~6 weeks and be 5-5 when some of the guys would be returning, that we could make a playoff push.
Instead we didn't lose again that season.
Assuming it's a "simple" ACL tear Bourne will probably will be back close to the start of next season, so I'm sure plenty of teams will be interested in signing him.Wonder if Bill offers Bourne a deal, something they've done in the past, re-sign a guy at a discount while he rehabs.
I think the market for a guy who won't be back to 100% likely until late in the FA period if not camp/early season is going to be fairly small. Now, maybe he wants to test it, but makes some sense to make him a reasonable but discounted offer when you're the only one who can and see.Assuming it's a "simple" ACL tear Bourne will probably will be back close to the start of next season, so I'm sure plenty of teams will be interested in signing him.
Maybe they will get some discount coming off an injury, but it's not like he won't play next year at all, so probably won't be a huge one.
I kind of doubt Bourne is desperate to return to the Pats to be paired up with Mac/unknown QB
A little worrying for Anderson. He missed most of camp with an illness, and was listed with illness on the team’s injury and practice report this week.View: https://twitter.com/Patriots/status/1720558919037186231?t=1EwiWyD_mEkKPT0jVaMhnA&s=19
Anderson to IR as the O-line injury apocalypse continues
Yes, that is concerning.A little worrying for Anderson. He missed most of camp with an illness, and was listed with illness on the team’s injury and practice report this week.
Seemingly waived due to his poor work on the blocked punt vs. PIT.
Ty came up tiny.Seemingly waived due to his poor work on the blocked punt vs. PIT.
I think it was Reiss who speculated Montgomery's days were numbered when the Patriots claimed HastySeemingly waived due to his poor work on the blocked punt vs. PIT.
The issue isn't the roster spot, which they could easily clear up in a variety of ways. The issue is they went into the year with Ty Montgomery coming off injury and zero competition.Presumably, a new coach won’t carry as many of the Slater/Schooler/Board/Davis types. 2 S, a WR, and a LB tied up in these ST-only players. At least 2 or 3 of these spots would open up for a 3rd down back, a T, a LB or some other more valuable position type.
And Ty Montgomery stinks. He had one good year in 2016The issue isn't the roster spot, which they could easily clear up in a variety of ways. The issue is they went into the year with Ty Montgomery coming off injury and zero competition.
Man I had high hopes for him-I really liked the signing.And Ty Montgomery stinks. He had one good year in 2016
I think the signaling thing is overblown; most of the time the James White guy plays, the game situation already removes the run threat. There's no value in keeping the defense "honest" against the run on 3rd-and-9 or in the two minute drill. But I agree the potential upgrades were pretty marginal and this is like 12th on the list of issues with the offense.I don't see specialist 3rd down back as a miss this year. Not that many teams carry them, and given you have 2 very good all-around backs (and tried out a 3rd in Fournette), I don't see the major appeal of taking 2 well rounded guys who can do both (and Elliott is a pretty good blocker) off the field for a guy who maybe is a slight passcatching upgrade, but signals you're unlikely to run, and is probably not a top blocker.
I'd note... James white was also a really good RB, if he came into the league now he'd be a lead back. Everyone is so much better at passcatching from RB now, and guys i that I think the 3rd down/pass back is going away outside of a place to stash really undersized guys who you can't trust on certain runs.I think the signaling thing is overblown; most of the time the James White guy plays, the game situation already removes the run threat. There's no value in keeping the defense "honest" against the run on 3rd-and-9 or in the two minute drill. But I agree the potential upgrades were pretty marginal and this is like 12th on the list of issues with the offense.
I 100% believe this. But I've never played or coached the game.Do we actually think the whole "We never should've gone away from the fullback" thing is meaningful?
It'll be interesting to see if Marcus Jones gets some more offensive run next year. I thought he was a great change of pace look.I'd note... James white was also a really good RB, if he came into the league now he'd be a lead back. Everyone is so much better at passcatching from RB now, and guys i that I think the 3rd down/pass back is going away outside of a place to stash really undersized guys who you can't trust on certain runs.
Well you’re ignoring a few things hereI don't see specialist 3rd down back as a miss this year. Not that many teams carry them, and given you have 2 very good all-around backs (and tried out a 3rd in Fournette), I don't see the major appeal of taking 2 well rounded guys who can do both (and Elliott is a pretty good blocker) off the field for a guy who maybe is a slight passcatching upgrade, but signals you're unlikely to run, and is probably not a top blocker.
I'm curious who people even would have carried?
https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2023/all/running-back/all/
Those are the FA who signed last year. I definitely would rather Zeke on 3rd downs than anyone they could have added. Perine was the top paid 3rd down back... Zeke is better than him by a lot.
Perine would be in place of Zeke not Montgomery, they weren't similar contracts. I don't know that I agree Zeke (or similar) wasn't the plan... they worked him out, they worked out Fournette. There were always options in FA. I also think that drafting a RB in the 3rd would have been pretty crazy, they had one of the better 3 down backs in the league, they have a million holes, and they could pick up a really good backup (they did) for just reasonable money.Well you’re ignoring a few things here
first, Elliott was signed late in camp. It looked like they were content going into the season trying Montgomery and Strong as the 3rd down/long distance/receiving back guy. So at the time they signed Zeke, every other halfway decent back was off the market. Of course that’s also ignoring that they could have drafted Spears or Achane instead of Mapu. Zeke seems to only have been added when the in house guys flamed out. I’d absolutely rather have Samaje Perine, and his 9.5 yards per reception and reliable 3rd down abilities than Ty Montgomery.
secondly, the issue isn’t that Elliott isn’t a good back. He clearly still has some gas in the tank. But he’s not much of a big play guy these days. He’s also limited in the way you can use him. Like Stevenson, Zeke can catch and give you a little after the catch, but he’s not a guy you can line up all over the formation, or expect to run a deep wheel route. He’s not going to catch 8 balls out of the slot or out wide like we’ve seen Vereen, White or Faulk do.
The issue I have with the roster construction is that this offense has very little home run hitting ability. A guy like Mostert (who knows if he would have left Miami but he was available) or Achane actually has the ability to take a pass or a draw to the house or convert a 3rd and 17. Stevenson and Elliott might be better overall backs but they’re not big play guys, or at least haven’t been this year.
lastly, the idea that putting a worse player on the field and taking Zeke or Stevenson off the field doesn’t really make sense. Most running backs these days come off the field fairly often. Having a 3rd guy who can come on the field in obvious passing downs and fit those personnel groupings a bit better or offer more long speed isn’t making the offense more predictable or preventing you from utilizing your better backs. There are just some down and distances or opponent personnel groupings where having a faster, shiftier guy who can run a more diversified route tree makes sense.
I don't think we can reasonably call the RB room "good". It's just not as bad as QB/WR. The Pats rank 22nd in both total rushing yards and YPC. They're tied for last in 20+ yard runs (3 all season). Despite that generally poor performance, they run the ball on 1st down more than most teams, and others who've struggled as much in YPC rush far less, obviously needed given (again) how bad the passing game is.Overall though, I think our RB room was good this year, and there wasn't any reason to change how they approached it. Where they made mistakes was Line and WR mostly.
I think that rushing success has very little to do with the RBs and a great deal to do with a bad/injured line and defenses stacking the box.I don't think we can reasonably call the RB room "good". It's just not as bad as QB/WR. The Pats rank 22nd in both total rushing yards and YPC. They're tied for last in 20+ yard runs (3 all season). Despite that generally poor performance, they run the ball on 1st down more than most teams, and others who've struggled as much in YPC rush far less, obviously needed given (again) how bad the passing game is.
The only real saving grace is how many good backs are likely to be available next season. An unusual number of lead backs are hitting free agency, over a dozen. I expect this is why the Pats went so shallow and short with their room this year.
I don't think we can reasonably call the RB room "good". It's just not as bad as QB/WR. The Pats rank 22nd in both total rushing yards and YPC. They're tied for last in 20+ yard runs (3 all season). Despite that generally poor performance, they run the ball on 1st down more than most teams, and others who've struggled as much in YPC rush far less, obviously needed given (again) how bad the passing game is.
The only real saving grace is how many good backs are likely to be available next season. An unusual number of lead backs are hitting free agency, over a dozen. I expect this is why the Pats went so shallow and short with their room this year.
Rhamondre did those kinds of things his first two seasons. Why he can't do it this season, I don't know. He was a freight train that ran past and over people his first two years.I couldn’t agree more with @NextBigThing8184 and @Deathofthebambino regarding our RBs. Like literally every other position group on offense, RB was poorly constructed. No breakaway speed from anyone via running or receiving. Ty Montgomery sucks, that signing was DOA. Thank goodness Zeke isn’t totally washed, or we’d really be screwed. It’s a mediocre bunch that seems good because the rest of the O is putrid.
*edit* 30 seconds after I posted this I watched AJ Dillon take a 5 yard pass, run over 3 people, and take it 34 yards downfield. No one on the Pats can do what he just did.
They’re going to have to spend resources on the RB room. Rham is a FA after next year and Zeke is surely gone this offseason. They need another body back there. Maybe another mid round guy or FA signing. You definitely don’t need to spend too much there nor do we have the luxury of doing so.They obviously lack an actual receiving back, but as far as running the ball goes, they're well served with Elliott and Stevenson. I mean, they're fine. There's only one running back who matters anyway and he's in San Francisco, they desperately need to add a 3rd down back, but otherwise it's a position I don't want resources to be spent on.