2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread

Kliq

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,857
Folks, it's the Clippers. They are led by one of the most injury prone players in NBA history, someone that is capable of quite literally disappearing at any moment for a random injury that comes with an unknown timetable. Their other two stars are two of the biggest serial underperforming playoff series players in recent NBA history. IF Kawhi stays healthy throughout the playoffs and IF Paul George and Harden play at their highest level throughout several playoff series, than the Clippers are real contenders. But those are two of the biggest IFs imaginable, and in the case of Harden, has been something we have never, ever seen before in his career.
 
PedroKsBambino

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,423
I have zero faith in Harden. But his role with the Clippers is basically to be a pass-first PG so I also have no idea whether his historical challenges remain if all he's supposed to do is pass.

There is no question that the injury risk is massive. For all of Kawhi's injury issues, he has won titles as the best player on the team, so that is also part of his track record and I suspect why a couple of us are more circumspect about their possibilities than you are
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,258
Kliq said:
I will not be worried about the Clippers until they are like, in the Finals. They are an unserious basketball team.
Click to expand...
I don't know that there's anything more serious than healthy, playoff Kawhi.

Will we see him? Who knows, but if he's healthy, he's the 2nd best player on the planet, and a killer in the postseason.

The rest of the roster is good too.

Yeah, Harden has had playoff struggles, but he's never had running mates like this (sorry Joel, you're kind of a joke come May).
 
Tony C

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,719
PedroKsBambino said:
I don't see why we'd consider the clippers 'unserious' at all - they have a deep, largely veteran roster and good coaching.

The injury concerns are absolutely real, and I do wonder if the lack of quality size is going to be a problem for them in the west, where AD/Jokic/Minnesota all bring a lot of size to the table.

To me the Clips present some of the same challenges to teams the Celtics have the last couple years - depth of quality two-way wings who can switch defensively and role-shift offensively. They seem legit to me if healthy.
Click to expand...
This is a great summation, and I worry about their size in key games/playoffs -- I think, for example, the Clippers would kill the Suns or Kings who also lack interior size, but the Nuggets and more rugged teams could give them real problems when the games slow down. Their current incarnation is a pleasure to watch, and I think Ty Lue is a great coach and even hate-watching him have to appreciate Harden's game and how he's adapted it. And Kawhi looks, simply, great. That said, even healthy I'd put them in the 2nd rung as would not have confidence in how they match up vs the Nuggets.

And, per last comment, a finals between the Celts and Clips would be great, great viewing.
 
Murderer's Crow

Murderer's Crow

Dragon Wangler 216
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
23,591
Garden City
Knicks need the ASB badly with the injuries piled up. They are basically playing a 7 man rotation and it showed against the Lakers. No OG, Randle, Robinson, and now Grimes. That they're winning at all is a shock.
 
slamminsammya

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
9,427
San Francisco
I think the Clippers are capable of winning a playoff series even with one of their big guys injured, given the state of the western conference. I think writing them off due to the injury stuff is really overconfident. I'd guess very pessimistically a 15% chance all are healthy, and even with two out of three healthy I they'd still be favored in any first or second round matchup.
 
Euclis20

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,251
Imaginationland
slamminsammya said:
I think the Clippers are capable of winning a playoff series even with one of their big guys injured, given the state of the western conference. I think writing them off due to the injury stuff is really overconfident. I'd guess very pessimistically a 15% chance all are healthy, and even with two out of three healthy I they'd still be favored in any first or second round matchup.
Click to expand...
If Kawhi is the one that's hurt, they might not be favored in any series. A small team led by Paul George and James Harden is nowhere near contender status.

It feels like 90% of their concerns are injury related, but the other 10% has to be Harden's annual playoff failures. Those bullish on his chances of success in the Spring must either believe that he's figured something out at age 34, or he'll be more effective simply because he's the distant 3rd option and far from the focus of opposing defenses. Since the latter feels far more likely, I gotta think that if either Kawhi or George is out, Harden will instantly become less effective, dooming the whole thing. Maybe if they get a top seed and end up facing a mediocre play in-team they'd still be favored with 2/3 of their big 3, but that's it. They'll likely need all three guys to beat any of Minnesota/OKC/Denver/Phoenix/LAL.
 
BigMike

BigMike

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Sep 26, 2000
23,250
Euclis20 said:
If Kawhi is the one that's hurt, they might not be favored in any series. A small team led by Paul George and James Harden is nowhere near contender status.

It feels like 90% of their concerns are injury related, but the other 10% has to be Harden's annual playoff failures. Those bullish on his chances of success in the Spring must either believe that he's figured something out at age 34, or he'll be more effective simply because he's the distant 3rd option and far from the focus of opposing defenses. Since the latter feels far more likely, I gotta think that if either Kawhi or George is out, Harden will instantly become less effective, dooming the whole thing. Maybe if they get a top seed and end up facing a mediocre play in-team they'd still be favored with 2/3 of their big 3, but that's it. They'll likely need all three guys to beat any of Minnesota/OKC/Denver/Phoenix/LAL.
Click to expand...
But a lot of Harden's failures have come from trying to do too much in the playoffs
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,820
lovegtm said:
I don't know that there's anything more serious than healthy, playoff Kawhi.

Will we see him? Who knows, but if he's healthy, he's the 2nd best player on the planet, and a killer in the postseason.

The rest of the roster is good too.

Yeah, Harden has had playoff struggles, but he's never had running mates like this (sorry Joel, you're kind of a joke come May).
Click to expand...
Agree with this. I'd have to think that BOS versus a fully healthy LAC would be a tossup and would be terrified that KL would just dominate the series.
 
Euclis20

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,251
Imaginationland
BigMike said:
But a lot of Harden's failures have come from trying to do too much in the playoffs
Click to expand...
Exactly, and I'm reasonably confident in him playing ok in the playoffs if both Kawhi and George are on the floor with him. If one is out he'll be asked to do more, and nothing in his history tells us that he's up for that task (my post was just responding to the assertion that they'd be favored in the early rounds if one of their big 3 is out).
 
HomeRunBaker

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,388
Euclis20 said:
If Kawhi is the one that's hurt, they might not be favored in any series. A small team led by Paul George and James Harden is nowhere near contender status.

It feels like 90% of their concerns are injury related, but the other 10% has to be Harden's annual playoff failures. Those bullish on his chances of success in the Spring must either believe that he's figured something out at age 34, or he'll be more effective simply because he's the distant 3rd option and far from the focus of opposing defenses. Since the latter feels far more likely, I gotta think that if either Kawhi or George is out, Harden will instantly become less effective, dooming the whole thing. Maybe if they get a top seed and end up facing a mediocre play in-team they'd still be favored with 2/3 of their big 3, but that's it. They'll likely need all three guys to beat any of Minnesota/OKC/Denver/Phoenix/LAL.
Click to expand...
When was the last time Kawhi has been hurt? Aside from the ACL that he’s recovered from you have to go back 6-7 years to his Spurs days to when he’s had a significant injury.
 
lars10

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
11,875
Royal Reader said:
View attachment 77632

I have a particular hatred for any team that goes in on portraying itself as more TEAM than all the other teams.

Also, the nastiest team is still the Warriors as long as they continue to play Draymond.
Click to expand...
You know when a team or person is all of these things when they write it out for you and tell you. Imagine if the Pats had written out something similar in the end zone. Would also be interesting to see what the Heat's record is with written on the floor. When they say Heat culture.. I just think that bacteria is grown in culture as well and that's the definition I choose to use.

Also.. most professional while also being the meanest, nastiest and toughest.. feels like it's contradicting itself.
 
R

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,749
Everything I am seeing about Embiid is almost identical to the info that came out about Timelord before his initial knee surgery. Hopefully for his sake things turn out differently.

https://www.nba.com/news/celtics-center-robert-williams-exits-game-with-left-knee-sprain

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/03/robert-williams-will-undergo-surgery-for-torn-meniscus-has-optimism-he-could-return-this-season.html

https://nesn.com/2022/03/robert-williams-update-what-led-to-surgery-with-shorter-term-recovery/
 
Euclis20

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,251
Imaginationland
HomeRunBaker said:
When was the last time Kawhi has been hurt? Aside from the ACL that he’s recovered from you have to go back 6-7 years to his Spurs days to when he’s had a significant injury.
Click to expand...
I won't bother quibbling over what counts as a "significant" injury, other than to say that any injury that causes him to miss playoff games is significant in my book. Coming into this season, he'd played in 52% of the Clippers regular season games and 70% of their playoff games. He's played in their final games of the year just once in four tries. Find me a more injury prone superstar in today's NBA and I'll reconsider.

the moops said:
Paul George has been quite good in the playoffs. This is a completely unfounded take. Harden I will give you, but PG is the man
Click to expand...
He was pretty lousy in the bubble (20/6/4 on .536 TS%, when most players were shooting the lights out), which corresponded with the Clippers brutal 3-1 collapse against the Nuggets. That was the best Clippers team of this era and in the biggest game of their season (game 7), George was 4-16 for 10 points and 5 turnovers (I remember some shots off the side of the backboard). More than probably any star he's spoken about how the bubble environment negatively effected him, so I'm fine giving him a pass on that. If he gets to the playoffs healthy, I'm not worried about him playing well.
 
Tony C

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,719
the moops said:
Paul George has been quite good in the playoffs. This is a completely unfounded take. Harden I will give you, but PG is the man
Click to expand...
I think that clutch time "clank" off the side of the backboard sticks in people's minds even if, yes, he's generally been fine.
 
Kliq

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,857
the moops said:
Paul George has been quite good in the playoffs. This is a completely unfounded take. Harden I will give you, but PG is the man
Click to expand...
Shooting 42% from the field and turning the ball over a ton isn't what I would classify as "quite good". He has had some good series in his career, most notably in 2021 when he played very well against Dallas and Utah in the first two rounds--but he's also played pretty poorly and failed to find consistency over the course of multiple rounds, which in part of led to some disappointing exits for his team.
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,820
HomeRunBaker said:
When was the last time Kawhi has been hurt? Aside from the ACL that he’s recovered from you have to go back 6-7 years to his Spurs days to when he’s had a significant injury.
Click to expand...
As I'm sure you know, he had a torn meniscus in the playoffs last year that lead to LAC being eliminated by PHO. I don't know if you'd call that "significant" but (i) to me, it takes on more significance with what RahdSoxFan is telling us about Embiid's injury (and what he said about TL, as he points out above), and (ii) it basically ended his playoffs.
 
ElUno20

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
6,145
wade boggs chicken dinner said:
As I'm sure you know, he had a torn meniscus in the playoffs last year that lead to LAC being eliminated by PHO. I don't know if you'd call that "significant" but (i) to me, it takes on more significance with what RahdSoxFan is telling us about Embiid's injury (and what he said about TL, as he points out above), and (ii) it basically ended his playoffs.
Click to expand...
The one that hurts is Ingles barreling into his knee on a useless possession 2 years ago. That team was rolling.
 
Smokey Joe

Smokey Joe

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2001
1,179
InstaFace said:
One step closer to my in-season tournament proposal of "the players should play on a transparent court of high-strength glass, under which is a pool of actual sharks swimming around"
Click to expand...
Considering how much certain players loved to shatter backboards until they made them unbreakable, the idea of shattering an entire court will be even more tempting.
Hence the idea of a pool filled with sharks as a deterrent.
 
J

jablo1312

New Member
Sep 20, 2005
985
CLE overtakes MIL for the EC 2 seed. This could turn into a quite the 3 way back and forth affair between MIL CLE & NYK over the next 2 months, barring additional injuries from any of the 3 (except maybe CLE; after all, they were rollling w/o Garland & Mobley anyways).
 
DeJesus Built My Hotrod

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,734
If @Sam Ray Not will forgive me, the Kumingaing is apparently really happening. At present I think he is amongst the best finishers at the rim in the NBA and he goes through people.

I don't know what this development does for the Warriors playoff chances but they couldn't have found a better realistic deadline addition than what he is giving them right now.
 
Euclis20

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,251
Imaginationland
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
If @Sam Ray Not will forgive me, the Kumingaing is apparently really happening. At present I think he is amongst the best finishers at the rim in the NBA and he goes through people.

I don't know what this development does for the Warriors playoff chances but they couldn't have found a better realistic deadline addition than what he is giving them right now.
Click to expand...
Indeed. 20+ points now in 9 of the last 10 games, averaging 25/7/2 over that stretch. We'll see what happens when his shot cools off (he won't shoot .538 from 3 forever), but they've definitely got something. Might be a year too late for the Steph/Klay/Draymond core, but there are plenty of teams in worse shape without a young player as promising as Kuminga. Or maybe the Warriors do something crazy and package him with Wiggins for a more age appropriate running mate to give the dynasty crew one last run.
 
Smokey Joe

Smokey Joe

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 9, 2001
1,179
djbayko said:
My first thought is, does this glass have a roughed up surface at all, or are we looking at some potential sprained ankles and pulled groins?
Click to expand...
They address that in the article. More importantly, the floor is opaque so the lasers attached to the sharks heads can’t penetrate it and accidentally fry Stephen Curry’s ankles.
 
wade boggs chicken dinner

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,820
On Doc Rivers. We all know MIL is 1-3.

MIL had a 14 point lead versus UT and ended up losing by 15. They were either ahead or tied at the half of each of their three losses.

Doc has basically not played Andre Jackson Jr or Beauchamp in the 4 games, which is pretty on brand for Doc, and did not play AJ Green for the first 3 games before playing him 22 minutes against UT.

Obviously, the game against UT is going to skew everything but I think it's amusing that their 4Q ORtg over the last four games is 108.2 while their DRtg is 117.8, or a NetRtg of -9.7. And we thought the Cs had 4Q issues.

The below is kind of funny.

View: https://twitter.com/BrickMuse/status/1754345256974475696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1754345256974475696%7Ctwgr%5Ef1168bead905cd0ed6e05aefa892cb71baa36ab3%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthelibertyline.com%2F2024%2F02%2F05%2Fdoc-rivers-bucks-jazz-collapse%2F
 
lovegtm

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,258
wade boggs chicken dinner said:
The below is kind of funny.

View: https://twitter.com/BrickMuse/status/1754345256974475696?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1754345256974475696%7Ctwgr%5Ef1168bead905cd0ed6e05aefa892cb71baa36ab3%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fthelibertyline.com%2F2024%2F02%2F05%2Fdoc-rivers-bucks-jazz-collapse%2F
Click to expand...
"Actually Mike Budenholzer was kind of a good coach and maybe I shouldn't have run him out of town when I was injured and he was broken up over a family tragedy, and then I maybe shouldn't have pushed for a specific coach who was awful and then I got fired and now I have Doc and.......is it me? No, no, it's the children who are wrong."
 
PedroKsBambino

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,423
lovegtm said:
"Actually Mike Budenholzer was kind of a good coach and maybe I shouldn't have run him out of town when I was injured and he was broken up over a family tragedy, and then I maybe shouldn't have pushed for a specific coach who was awful and then I got fired and now I have Doc and.......is it me? No, no, it's the children who are wrong."
Click to expand...
Yeah, I understood the desire to dump Coach Bud and maybe it was the right call---but I cannot say I'd rather be going into the playoffs with Doc Rivers than Bud. You could hope at hiring moment that Griffin would be the next Lue or Spoelstra (narrator: he's not!) but we know what Doc is and it ain't anymore a top-tier coach.
 
snowmanny

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,781
lovegtm said:
That's nice, but I won't be able to take Kawhi seriously until he delivers where it counts: in the playoffs.
Click to expand...
I assume you mean: that you won’t take Kawhi on the Clippers seriously until he and the Clippers deliver in the playoffs…which I think is universally felt…but it’s still funny to read that sentence about a two time Finals MVP.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom