2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
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If I was a betting man, I'd be banging Kawhi MVP odds at +6000. I know: he could get hurt tomorrow. But there aren't three players having better years than him that are on-pace to meet the 65 game threshold. And if the Clippers get the #1 seed in the West...
What's amazing about Kawhi is that he basically never has a bad shooting night. In the 18 games since he came back from being out for four games, he's only been under 50% shooting for a game ... 4 times, and they were 7-15, 6-17, 9-19, and 6-15. Essentially 2ish out of 18 bad shooting games.
I love Jayson Tatum, but in his last 18 games, he's been under 50% 9 times. Jaylen Brown, 8 times. Embiid, 5 times.
Of course, Jokic has been under .500 exactly zero times in the last 18 games (he's at 68.5% from the field in that time, ho-hum), but he only shoots 1.8 threes per game.
I love Jayson Tatum, but in his last 18 games, he's been under 50% 9 times. Jaylen Brown, 8 times. Embiid, 5 times.
Of course, Jokic has been under .500 exactly zero times in the last 18 games (he's at 68.5% from the field in that time, ho-hum), but he only shoots 1.8 threes per game.
it was, indeed a joke
The fact that it might possibly have not been says a lot about the Clippers though!
And to think, they might could have had Nick Nurse, who seems to be, at the very least, pretty good at the actual coaching part of being a head coach.
By statistics, the 4 that Moops mentioned plus the best player on the best team in the NBA . . . .
Fair. I have KL third after SGA and Jokic. You're right that Giannis and Luka have better overall pure statistical profiles, but I'm docking Giannis for one-dimensionality on offense (lack of FT% plus 3PT% make him a poor closer) and Luka for lack of D. Plus both guys play for teams whose arrows are currently pointed in the wrong direction. KL has simply been incredibly well-rounded and (health permitting: ) only seems to be getting better.
Nah. KL has simply been much more efficient this year. If Tatum was shooting 53% overall and 45% from 3, the Celtics would be on pace for like 68 wins.
I know this and you know this but do MVP voters really vote on efficiency?
KL is at 24.3 / 6.3 / 3.7 for the season. (Since 12.1, when LAC has gone 26-5, he's at 26.1 / 6.5 / 4.1).
JT is at 26.6 / 8.2 / 4.8.
Maybe if LAC continues their run so they end up with the best record in the NBA, but if LAC has the 2nd best record in the NBA, the only rationale for voters to vote for KL over Jokic or SGA is that he's on the better team but how would then be the best player on the best team with better counting stats?
60-1 for the best player on the best team who has a pedigree to keep him on the forefront of voters minds is pretty outrageous. I’ve got some Clippers futures stuff from months ago (not nearly enough) but am going to try and find some of this right now. Ty.
View: https://twitter.com/shamscharania/status/1754948170386165807?s=46&t=ewYMSuiVooy3RaQTShVJiA
Can't quibble too much with Barnes and Young getting chosen, but given the positional need, I'd assumed KP would've gotten one of these slots (he's the 3rd best center in the east, solidly ahead of Turner and Allen). Replacing a center and a power forward with a wing and yet another tiny guard seems like an odd choice, but the actual all-star game is less and less important so whatever. Bam is the only true center on the roster, although Giannis and Banchero are obviously big enough.
Can't quibble too much with Barnes and Young getting chosen, but given the positional need, I'd assumed KP would've gotten one of these slots (he's the 3rd best center in the east, solidly ahead of Turner and Allen). Replacing a center and a power forward with a wing and yet another tiny guard seems like an odd choice, but the actual all-star game is less and less important so whatever. Bam is the only true center on the roster, although Giannis and Banchero are obviously big enough.
You can make a strong case for Kawhi being better than all of those guys except Jokic. I think he's better by a significant margin, too.
People forget how ridiculously good those post-Duncan Spurs teams with Kawhi were. Net rating off the charts, and they absolutely could have pushed the KD Warriors, had Zaza not happened. Kawhi makes winning happen, and he does it in ways that translate well to the playoffs, and are "lead dog" contributions to winning, not role player ones.
Peak Kawhi was a top-3 player, and peak Kawhi, so far, is back.
If we're ignoring the durability concern, Kawhi is absolutely near the very top of the league this year in terms of season ending honors. MVP is a tough sell, his basic counting stats (points/rebounds/assists, the first numbers that everyone sees) are gonna fall pretty far below every other candidate. Tatum is definitely on the outside looking in, in large part because his own points/rebounds/assists are unimpressive compared to some, and he's well above Kawhi in that regard. Even with his offensive efficiency and defensive prowess, it's gonna be hard for him to pass all of Jokic/Luka/SGA/Giannis, their numbers are just too crazy.
1st team all-NBA and an all-defense team are definitely on the table though.
1st team all-NBA and an all-defense team are definitely on the table though.
It was just 1 team. Duncan retired after the 15-16 season and Kawhi sat out all but 6 games of 17-18 and then ended up with the Raptors the following season, leaving only the 16-17 squad as a post Duncan/Kawhi led team.
But yes that team was awesome until Kawhi landed on Zaza’s foot as you mentioned.
Super fun. I enjoy watching both these teams. So many fun players
Utah finally got em. iLoveMarkkanen hit some daggers down the stretch. That said, the Thunder are so good. Everyone knows about SGA and Chet but their third star is legit. Jalen Williams feels like he would be getting more buzz on a bigger stage - he could play for my team any day.
Giannis just did something to his back. I suspect he will be fine coming back from the timeout.
I've preached this forever but watching Beal defend while in a Suns uniform and a purpose looks nothing like the Beal playing on a lottery team in Washington on the defensive end.
He was fine even before the timeout..
This game has been crazy though. Lots of physical play and a couple cheap shots on both ends.
And Durant just made a poster of Giannis.
edit: also wonder how long Middleton will be out with his sprained ankle. Cameron Payne tried to take out Booker's knee along the sidelines.. somehow didn't get called for a foul and then yelled at him as Booker was asking the ref what all that was about... Payne then later got pushed going up for a layup in the second half and came down awkwardly. Bucks are on their way to another loss if things don't change in the next couple minutes.
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Bol Bol has always been a terrible basketball player. Bol Bol will always be a terrible basketball player. If he were 6-9 he'd be working at 7Eleven.
When he's out of the game tonight the Bucks are playing without Giannis, Lillard, Middleton and Lopez.....that's basically their team.
This expensive, circuitous Bud to Griffin to Doc coaching carousel with Nurse available has the potential to look VERY bad.
Lillard, Brook Lopez and Middleton are out tonite.. so even worse than their normal lineup.
I wasn't really talking about tonight, just in general.
Lopez and Middleton are not the same as they were a few years ago, and Lillard has always been a bit overrated (plus is also starting his decline).
The middle of this roster is just bleh
The optics are already horrible. And I'm not sure why Doc was so much better of a choice for this team mid season over Griffin who was at least around the team all year. I guess the idea is to get his system in place before the playoffs and just get in at whatever seed?
No doubt. I've been saying this all season. They are so overrated due to the wins from their soft schedule.
I'm not really disagreeing with you... I still can't figure out how the Bucks put it to the C's a few weeks ago even with the circumstances involved. They are a least a little better though with the other three.
Portis and Connaughton have basically been invisible tonite... and they're basically their fifth and sixth best players theoretically (or sixth and seventh?).
Phoenix is giving this game away. Epic collapse they are in the middle of if the Bucks could hit their FT;s.
Wtf is the review taking so long for? Portis literally fouled two players on that play. Maybe to call it on the grab of Nurkic to send him to the line?
It’s funny how fans in Boston hate Kyrie yet fans in Brooklyn absolutely love him. He put on a show tonight in his return home and that crowd came to see him and only him.
Basketball fans in NY root for the Knicks.
Nets fans go to games for the event, not surprised one bit that they'd cheer for the clowns.
I think i got bad information from a buddy who was at the game. I'm watching the replay now and the first time Kyrie put himself in an iso it seemed like it was 70% silent, 3% cheers, and 27% boos. I had game on screen w no volume so got to see Kyrie and Simmons go back and forth which is surreal in itself. Simmons is still so freakin talented....he almost put up a triple-double in 20 minutes. Has there ever been a worse NBA player who was an elite passer, probably behind Oscar as the best rebounding PG to play the game, elite defender and unselfish? What a unique freakin player.
Indeed, high scorers on mediocre teams (particularly guards) will nearly always improve defensively when moved to a team in title contention. Thankfully for the Celtics, Lillard is an exception.
Pretty nice win for Phoenix, even with the Bucks shorthanded and scuffling a bit. They've got by far the toughest schedule remaining by opposing win % (the difference between them and 2nd is equal to the difference between 2nd and 9th). The top 4 seems pretty set, not leaving much space to avoid the play in. Phoenix is gonna have to keep playing really well to avoid that.
Yeah, I was including the 15-16 team since Duncan was old, but you're right that he was on the team.
At every step of his career, he's tall Rondo. It remains an imperfect comp because Rondo did the best when the lights were brightest and Simmons is the polar opposite, but Rondo was an elite passer, excellent rebounder for his size, an elite defender when he wanted to be, and extremely unselfish. He was a poor outside shooter early in his career, and later he was afraid to go to the rim for fear of being fouled and embarrassed at the line.
Lamar Odom comes to mind, in that he was never able to fully put it together despite having excellent passing instincts and feel for the game. Like Simmons, he was also a weird dude, clearly distracted by off-court interests. But Odom wasn't an offensive liability and had a long and fairly productive career.
A Bucks-Pacers first round is starting to look more likely, and would be pretty juicy.
They had a handful of tight wins to start the year, but Bucks UNDER (54.5 pre-season) is in play
Down to 10th in net rating. But between Denver and Phoenix, both good teams.
Edit: they're 9-10 in their last 19
Because Doc is a proven commodity (though what he has proven is up to debate).
Jackson and Beauchamp with two more DNPs. At least Griffin was trying to develop these guys, who could bring a bit of athleticism on the wing.
Ran across this article from December that has clips of Dame and Beasley navigating PnR vs Beauchamp: https://theanalyst.com/na/2023/12/milwaukee-bucks-title-chances-marjon-beauchamp/.
Are the Cavs the most underappreciated team in the league? Currently in sole possession of second place in the east and I hear almost nothing about them.
I guess, looking at their recent run, it's partly a soft schedule, with wins over the Wiz (x2), Spurs (x2), Nets, Bulls, Hawks, Pistons, Grizz in their 14-2 run since the turn of the calendar year. Their March is a lot tougher.
Maybe the story is simply that the "contenders" in the east are really struggling. Are the Knicks maybe the toughest hurdle for the Cs to get to the finals at this point?
I guess, looking at their recent run, it's partly a soft schedule, with wins over the Wiz (x2), Spurs (x2), Nets, Bulls, Hawks, Pistons, Grizz in their 14-2 run since the turn of the calendar year. Their March is a lot tougher.
Maybe the story is simply that the "contenders" in the east are really struggling. Are the Knicks maybe the toughest hurdle for the Cs to get to the finals at this point?
Thanks for posting. I kinda like Beauchamp & AJax, thought Marjon from the Corner was solid. Maybe Doc uses them as trade assets now that he is DNPing them.
BTW is an Austin addition, bench microwave, in play?
I have to have it!Found this interesting for those who think a rim protector determines good defense:
Some might argue that having good point-of-attack defense is even more important than having good rim protection. In a recent study, it was shown that 46.2% of top-10 defenses since 2003-04 have been good (by their choice of measurement) rim protecting teams. On the flip side, 64.8% of those teams were good at defending at the point of attack.
With Lillard (minus-1.6 DRIP) and Malik Beasley (-1.1) as the starting backcourt, the Bucks are ill-equipped to be a strong perimeter defense.
Nice Guy Brad says thank you for Jrue....
Honestly, I could see Jimmy turning it on for the playoffs, Rozier and Herro shoot the lights out, and we get Celtics/Heat III.
I’ve been a huge Beauchamp guy since early last year. The kid can flat out play but it’s hard to fit in a 21-yr old w no high level experience in schemes at either end of the floor with veterans who understand how each players movement affects the entire set…on both ends. It sucks for him too with minites available around the league on younger teams.