2022 PGA Tour

TFP

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Yeah calling Riv easy isn’t right. It’s one of the few tour stops where the cut is consistently even or over par, which is impressive given the strength of the field too. You don’t often see a 16 shot spread from the cut to the lead after two days too. It’s always at the top of the pros list of favorite courses where if you play well you’re rewarded but if you’re off you get punished. What Niemmann did these last two days was incredibly impressive.

It’s one of my favorite courses to watch the pros play.
 

radsoxfan

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It's not easy, but they make it EASIER than it needs to be.

Just wish they would grow the rough out a bit and make it a penalty to miss the fairway.
 

cshea

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Missing the fairway is a penalty. They aren’t making birdie from the rough unless they chip in or make a long putt.
 

allstonite

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Niemann is unconscious right now.
Eagles 10

I’m watching on mute so not sure if they’ve mentioned it but is anyone else’s feed awful? Like satellite during a hurricane bad? I;m having no issues with other channels
 

kenneycb

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Three straight “fore rights” from the final group on 13 was comical to listen to as I was coming out of a late afternoon nap.
 

voidfunkt

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There's speculation Mickelson is broke from gambling and that is why he is pushing so hard for this. On the other hand, his comments earlier this week possibly sank this ship and if I'm one of the Saudi league backers I'm not sure I'm thrilled with Phil either for his comments which were less than generous considering they are his future boss. Also speculation PGA is considering suspending or banning him from the tour now that its clear he is the brainchild of their potential competition.

Good job Phil, master class in screwing yourself.
 

johnmd20

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There's speculation Mickelson is broke from gambling and that is why he is pushing so hard for this. On the other hand, his comments earlier this week possibly sank this ship and if I'm one of the Saudi league backers I'm not sure I'm thrilled with Phil either for his comments which were less than generous considering they are his future boss. Also speculation PGA is considering suspending or banning him from the tour now that its clear he is the brainchild of their potential competition.

Good job Phil, master class in screwing yourself.
I have a hard time believing Phil could lose all of his money gambling. He's made hundreds of millions of dollars. The action required to go broke with his career earnings is nearly impossible.
 

E5 Yaz

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One thing I suspect is a lost cause is Phil's future as a golf analyst. In the past, he's been good at analyzing the game, but this episode isn't going to help
 

voidfunkt

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I have a hard time believing Phil could lose all of his money gambling. He's made hundreds of millions of dollars. The action required to go broke with his career earnings is nearly impossible.
Who knows, I agree it would be hard, but he wouldn't be the first athlete to lose all his money doing stupid things. A mix of failed investments and gambling can cause problems quickly if you're careful. And he is well known for having a serious gambling habit.
 

johnmd20

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Who knows, I agree it would be hard, but he wouldn't be the first athlete to lose all his money doing stupid things. A mix of failed investments and gambling can cause problems quickly if you're careful. And he is well known for having a serious gambling habit.
The guys who go broke are guys who stop playing and earning and then the money dwindles because nothing is coming in. Phil still earns money, he has endorsements, and his income as probably about the same as it was in his peak years.

It is really tough to go broke if you're still pulling in millions of dollars a year. This is not to say he hasn't lost a ton of money gambling. He probably has. But he's made way more.
 

radsoxfan

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I guess hoodies are in now. Thomas wearing a generic grey hoodie that you might wear to the gym.
Gets cold down there in the afternoon! Especially when overcast.

I’m working 5 miles from the course right now and I bet it’s 15-20 degrees colder there than where I am.
 

Zomp

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I love my golf hoodies. Adidas made one a few years ago that’s made of really stretchy material. It doesn’t hinder my swing at all.
 

TFP

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Rhoback hoodies are unquestionably the most comfortable piece of clothing I own. I wear them frequently on the course.
 

cshea

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Feels like Niemann has been around for ever, but he is only 23. 2 years younger than Morikawa. What a performance this week.
 

Zomp

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voidfunkt

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Fun tournament. I would like to see a US Open there. Wonder why they haven't done a major there in awhile? Membership against it?
 

Senator Donut

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Fun tournament. I would like to see a US Open there. Wonder why they haven't done a major there in awhile? Membership against it?
They hosted the 2017 US Amateur, so they definitely have a good relationship with the USGA and the membership is willing to hand over the course for a period of time. They’ll also host Olympic golf in 2028. My best guess is that the site can’t accommodate as many paying spectators and luxury hospitality as other US Open sites, which is why they haven’t hosted recently. @radsoxfan could probably give you a better answer.
 

joe dokes

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Now that he's set back (if not sunk) the venture after saying some uncomplementary things about SA, I wonder if Phil is worried about ending up like Khashoggi.
 

ezemerson

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everyone was saying how difficult Riviera is and they all demolished it.....can we get back to some tournaments where the winner is in single digits under par
 

radsoxfan

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They hosted the 2017 US Amateur, so they definitely have a good relationship with the USGA and the membership is willing to hand over the course for a period of time. They’ll also host Olympic golf in 2028. My best guess is that the site can’t accommodate as many paying spectators and luxury hospitality as other US Open sites, which is why they haven’t hosted recently. @radsoxfan could probably give you a better answer.
I know plenty of members that would like the US Open back. I wouldn't be surprised if there are some logistical problems like you said. Not sure how ownership feels, I think there were some issues in the past but don't think currently.

I liked the way it used to be, we charged $20 a car and people parked in our driveway. Less than a half mile walk to the course, made it feel like a big event (as a kid this felt fun). Now it's all shuttles from the local middle school. Or Uber. No one is even allowed to park anywhere close to my mom's house.
 

radsoxfan

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everyone was saying how difficult Riviera is and they all demolished it.....can we get back to some tournaments where the winner is in single digits under par
I mentioned this up a bit, but they really go out of their way to make the course as easy as possible for this event. It must be the PGA wanting more birdies and lower scores, I don't know for sure.

Obviously the greens are fast and it's not "easy", but the rough is almost non-existent. Aside from being out of position (sometimes a real issue of course), there is no penalty for wayward drives. The rough can grow much longer and thicker in the summer, so if they had the US open it could easily be 3 shots harder per round if they want. More if the wind is going.

Additionally, the 1st hole is basically a par 4. I think scoring average was 4.2 this year. So they could make it a par 70 (34 front/36 back) if they wanted to and that's 4 shots less under par right there.

Back in the day it was a par 72 and both 1 and 2 were par 5s for the members. The 2nd hole has been a par 4 for awhile. Going 4 - 4 and being 2 under felt great and was definitely doable often for single digit handicaps. The next 16 holes were unfortunately a quick return to reality for me (still have never shot under par there). My dad's best round was 69 and he was on cloud 9 for a month.
 
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Deathofthebambino

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I mentioned this up a bit, but they really go out of their way to make the course as easy as possible for this event. It must be the PGA wanting more birdies and lower scores, I don't know for sure.

Obviously the greens are fast and it's not "easy", but the rough is almost non-existent. Aside from being out of position (sometimes a real issue of course), there is no penalty for wayward drives. The rough can grow much longer and thicker in the summer, so if they had the US open it could easily be 3 shots harder per round if they want. More if the wind is going.

Additionally, the 1st hole is basically a par 4. I think scoring average was 4.2 this year. So they could make it a par 70 (34 front/36 back) if they wanted to and that's 4 shots less under par right there.

Back in the day it was a par 72 and both 1 and 2 were par 5s for the members. The 2nd hole has been a par 4 for awhile. Going 4 - 4 and being 2 under felt great and was definitely doable often for single digit handicaps. The next 16 holes were unfortunately a quick return to reality for me (still have never shot under par there). My dad's best round was 69 and he was on cloud 9 for a month.
You should watch the last minute of the Rory interview. They couldn't grow out the rough this year due to weather conditions, which made scoring higher. He said 4 rounds under par at Riviera would make him feel like he would normally have a chance to win, but not this year.

Last year, Max Homa won at -12 (only 2 other guys in double digits)
The year before, Adam Scott was -11 (only guy in the field better than -9)
JB Holmes at -14 the year before that, had a ludicrous 63 in the 1st round:
Year before was Bubba at -12 (2 guys tied for 2nd at -10).

This is one of the hardest courses on the PGA Tour year in and year out, and given that it's only 7,300 or so yards, sure seems to me that the Tour is trying to make it harder than easier, the weather just didn't cooperate this year. The only way to make these courses much harder is to drop them all to par 70's, grow the rough to 8 inches and make everything 8,000 yards.

And you'll probably still have guys shoot under par.
 

cshea

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Changing par doesn't really alter the difficulty of a course. They could change 1 from a par 5 to a par 4 but all that does is change the score in relation to par. The players will still take the same amount strokes to get around as they always did, but the scores will be artificially higher in relation to par.
 

radsoxfan

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Changing par doesn't really alter the difficulty of a course. They could change 1 from a par 5 to a par 4 but all that does is change the score in relation to par. The players will still take the same amount strokes to get around as they always did, but the scores will be artificially higher in relation to par.
Clearly. But when people watch casually and see someone -16 instead of -12 it feels like the course must be “easier”.

Changing #1 is one simple and reasonable way at Riv to get scores closer to par if that’s something the USGA is interested in. Obviously it’s just window dressing.
 

radsoxfan

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You should watch the last minute of the Rory interview. They couldn't grow out the rough this year due to weather conditions, which made scoring higher. He said 4 rounds under par at Riviera would make him feel like he would normally have a chance to win, but not this year.
Thanks, I missed the interview but will look for it.

The rough is always pretty short for this tourney, though maybe weather made it even shorter this year. They can grow it much longer in the summer for sure.

More than anything I actually thought the weather during the tourney was the biggest factor in slightly better scoring compared to usual. Typically at least there's 1 or 2 days of pretty decent wind but this year it was mostly pristine.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Thanks, I missed the interview but will look for it.

The rough is always pretty short for this tourney, though maybe weather made it even shorter this year. They can grow it much longer in the summer for sure.

More than anything I actually thought the weather during the tourney was the biggest factor in slightly better scoring compared to usual. Typically at least there's 1 or 2 days of pretty decent wind but this year it was mostly pristine.
Sorry, the Rory interview is upthread.
 

TFP

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Shipnuck is (rightfully) not happy with Phil characterizing their chat as off the record.

I'd have to re-read the original article, but I believe Shipnuck was pretty clear that the whole conversation was unsolicited. Phil is the one that initiated the call ad plowed ahead without asking for anything to be off the record.

View: https://twitter.com/AlanShipnuck/status/1496231307436859392?s=20&t=YdkUaDPf25zb3VJfOzu2gQ
Shipnuck put out a podcast yesterday with Ginella under the Firepit Collective to go over everything. Phil knew he was writing the book, reached out to him to talk, and at no point was it ever mentioned that it was off the record. Phil then tried to confront Shipnuck after the article came out about it being off the record and shut it down right away.

Enjoy your suspension Phil.
 

cshea

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"I'm sorry, and the real victim here is me."
It also reads more like an apology to the Saudi's than anyone else. He mentions them by name, suggests change is needed, and does not mention the PGA Tour.

Suspension whispers all around here, though the Tour will never admit it.