2022 Patriots in-season news and moves thread

rodderick

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So Jonnu will be playing in 2023 under a 17 million cap hit and you can't really cut him either because the dead cap would be huge? Oof is that contract bad, goodness.
 

lexrageorge

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So Jonnu will be playing in 2023 under a 17 million cap hit and you can't really cut him either because the dead cap would be huge? Oof is that contract bad, goodness.
It was going to be difficult to cut him until after the 2023 season even prior to this deal; this deal just makes it harder. OTOH, they could always kick the can down the road again by extending him next offseason. And they are projected to have better than $50M of cap space next year.
 

Super Nomario

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It was going to be difficult to cut him until after the 2023 season even prior to this deal; this deal just makes it harder. OTOH, they could always kick the can down the road again by extending him next offseason. And they are projected to have better than $50M of cap space next year.
I don't think it actually makes it harder to cut Jonnu except psychologically. The two-year outlay of money would be the exact same. It just pushes some of the guaranteed money from this year to 2023/2024. It was always going to hard to cut Jonnu until after 2023 because he still has $6.25 MM guaranteed salary for that season.
 

Cellar-Door

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yeah, this does nothing to Jonnu's contract really, it's the same money over the same period of time, it's just which year it hits and you likely weren't cutting him in that period either way.
 
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Jungleland

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No blue check, followed by Lazar though. While it did seem like there was enough smoke last fall that I believe there was mutual interest between OBJ and BB, it doesn't make sense for Odell to rush a decision. Doesn't make sense cap wise nor for Beckham if we're heading towards out of the hunt before he's even back. (Not saying they will be for sure, but it has to at least be a consideration.)
 

Harry Hooper

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What was Odell going to sing?

That Feb. tweet was referring to last summer, so much a-twit about nothing most likely. Add in the Pats have multiple units that need help more than WR.
 

E5 Yaz

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What was Odell going to sing?
I'll play it the Patriots way,
Wherever the Patriots put me
There'll I'll stay.
Whatever the Patriots tell me
That I'll do.
Whatever Belichick may think,
I think so too.
I'm beaming with Patriots pride.
I've conquered that overambitious rat inside.
OBJ is no longer the chump he used to be.
I pledge to the Patriots sweet conformity.
 

Garshaparra

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I'll play it the Patriots way,
Wherever the Patriots put me
There'll I'll stay.
Whatever the Patriots tell me
That I'll do.
Whatever Belichick may think,
I think so too.
I'm beaming with Patriots pride.
I've conquered that overambitious rat inside.
OBJ is no longer the chump he used to be.
I pledge to the Patriots sweet conformity.
It's not every sports chat board where you'll get a How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying deepcut parody, but here we are. I played Bud Frump in high school, so this made me, well, beam with pride

That said, I can't see the Pats burning the cap space for such a move, even prorated.
 

E5 Yaz

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It's not every sports chat board where you'll get a How To Succeed In Business Without Really Trying deepcut parody, but here we are. I played Bud Frump in high school, so this made me, well, beam with pride
We Frumps are a loyal tribe
 

Harry Hooper

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In Peter King's latest, he included a rundown of units on various teams that he's most worried about:

I think these five units would worry me entering the season if I were a coach of one of these teams:
a. Offensive line, Raiders
b. Special teams, Chargers
c. Quarterback, Jets
d. Wide receiver, Patriots
e. Interior line, Buccaneers

I'd be more worried about other units on the Pats.
 

Jimbodandy

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In Peter King's latest, he included a rundown of units on various teams that he's most worried about:

I'd be more worried about other units on the Pats.
King lost his fastball so long ago. He's like Rich Hill without the craftiness.

I'd have the WR room about fifth in the list of concerns. Basically all three levels of defense and offensive line are bigger concerns to me, at least for the first six games or so. People keep talking about the need to eat before December (appropriately), but I'd say that we're really talking about October and November being a necessary hot streak. With all of the moving parts this year, it's going to take time for things to gel. But the WRs are experienced and qualified and have experience with Mac as well. Just a weird take by King altogether.
 

Saints Rest

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King lost his fastball so long ago. He's like Rich Hill without the craftiness.

I'd have the WR room about fifth in the list of concerns. Basically all three levels of defense and offensive line are bigger concerns to me, at least for the first six games or so. People keep talking about the need to eat before December (appropriately), but I'd say that we're really talking about October and November being a necessary hot streak. With all of the moving parts this year, it's going to take time for things to gel. But the WRs are experienced and qualified and have experience with Mac as well. Just a weird take by King altogether.
I agree 100%. Or put another more broadly speaking way, I would list my concerns thus:
  1. Run Defense
  2. Pass Defense
  3. Run Offense
  4. Pass Offense
 

DJnVa

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Yeah, that list shows he's only doing surface level analysis (and not even good analysis) and we get much better than that in a million other places.
 
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First concern is offensive line. And it ain’t close.
This this this this this. The OL way too frequently can’t even get out of its own way, it is a serious problem. The idea that the WR corps is remotely in the same universe constitutes some serious journalistic malpractice, even for a national reporter without his fastball. Good Lord.
 

radsoxfan

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To pile on, that’s like saying a starting rotation doesn’t have an ace and therefore is a major weakness.

Probably should check to see if it’s a bunch of #3/4 starters or AAA guys.

WR group isn’t super exciting but it’s fine.
 

rodderick

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The WR group is perfectly adequate, it lacks top end talent but everyone on the roster is a capable NFL receiver. I don't know if the OL is the obvious pick for the team's main weakness, though, I think that CB corps could be an all out disaster, we're basically counting on a career "meh" 2nd corner to be our number one and a multitude of slot guys and rookies to play the perimeter and fill in inside. I think the floor for that group is lower than the OL's, don't know why so many take it as a given that Marcus and Jack Jones will be able to play and contribute a lot of snaps right away. Also have no clue what to expect from Jonathan Jones playing outside coming back from an injury.
 

lexrageorge

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The WR group is perfectly adequate, it lacks top end talent but everyone on the roster is a capable NFL receiver. I don't know if the OL is the obvious pick for the team's main weakness, though, I think that CB corps could be an all out disaster, we're basically counting on a career "meh" 2nd corner to be our number one and a multitude of slot guys and rookies to play the perimeter and fill in inside. I think the floor for that group is lower than the OL's, don't know why so many take it as a given that Marcus and Jack Jones will be able to play and contribute a lot of snaps right away. Also have no clue what to expect from Jonathan Jones playing outside coming back from an injury.
What's interesting is that the OL was widely considered to be one of the team's strengths entering training camp: a solid mix of returning vets (Wynn, Brown, Andrews), a promising young player entering his critical 3rd season (Onwenu), and a first round draft pick (Strange). Instead, if we believe the media reports, the OL has looked decidedly bad all throughout the preseason.

Meanwhile, the defensive back is indeed a concern given the number of unproven players. And, the defense as a whole has looked pretty decent by those same media reports, aside from one joint practice against the Raiders.

Of the 2, I'd be more concerned about the OL. The safety position is in good hands with McCourty and Duggar, and that can help mitigate some of the inexperience in the defensive backfield. And I think some here undersell the defensive front 7, especially if Judon can stay healthy for a full season and Barmore can continue to show why scouts raved about this pick. OTOH, this offense as constructed has no margin for error with regards to the offensive line's ability to open up running lanes and protect Mac.

If both units (OL and DB) perform badly, then it will indeed be "look out below" time when it comes to the win total.
 

rodderick

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What's interesting is that the OL was widely considered to be one of the team's strengths entering training camp: a solid mix of returning vets (Wynn, Brown, Andrews), a promising young player entering his critical 3rd season (Onwenu), and a first round draft pick (Strange). Instead, if we believe the media reports, the OL has looked decidedly bad all throughout the preseason.

Meanwhile, the defensive back is indeed a concern given the number of unproven players. And, the defense as a whole has looked pretty decent by those same media reports, aside from one joint practice against the Raiders.

Of the 2, I'd be more concerned about the OL. The safety position is in good hands with McCourty and Duggar, and that can help mitigate some of the inexperience in the defensive backfield. And I think some here undersell the defensive front 7, especially if Judon can stay healthy for a full season and Barmore can continue to show why scouts raved about this pick. OTOH, this offense as constructed has no margin for error with regards to the offensive line's ability to open up running lanes and protect Mac.

If both units (OL and DB) perform badly, then it will indeed be "look out below" time when it comes to the win total.
I think McCourty is still solid, but not anything special anymore and the rest of the safety group is comprised of guys that want to play in the box and struggle in coverage, even (I'd argue especially) Dugger. They can provide a lot of matchup versatility, but I don't know if they have the kind of skillset that's capable of erasing mistakes by the corners.
 

Jungleland

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Oline worries me most for September, corner worries me most for the season. I'm still pretty confident that the personnel is there for the line to be good and that the summer struggles have been about scheme, Strange's inexperience, and the positional shifts, all of which I think can and should get better as the season goes on. At corner I think it's much more likely they outright don't have the talent. The optimist in me says that Mills, the rookies, and Wade have all performed better in camp & preseason than expected, but I imagine we are going to find out pretty quickly if JC is missed as much as expected.
 

Harry Hooper

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From Bedard's latest podcast, "I'm horrified about the cornerback position. I mean, petrified at this point."
 

rodderick

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Oline worries me most for September, corner worries me most for the season. I'm still pretty confident that the personnel is there for the line to be good and that the summer struggles have been about scheme, Strange's inexperience, and the positional shifts, all of which I think can and should get better as the season goes on. At corner I think it's much more likely they outright don't have the talent. The optimist in me says that Mills, the rookies, and Wade have all performed better in camp & preseason than expected, but I imagine we are going to find out pretty quickly if JC is missed as much as expected.
This is sensible. The OL could take longer to play at the level they are capable of, but the overall talent there is much more of a known commodity.
 

BaseballJones

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From Bedard's latest podcast, "I'm horrified about the cornerback position. I mean, petrified at this point."
I, for one, am not at all sold on Mills as anything close to a #1 CB. And he’s the best they’ve got. And the pass rush isn’t good enough to protect the DBs.

I think they’re going to get shredded. What would help is if the offense possesses the ball and keeps the other offense off the field. But right now it doesn’t look like NE’s offense is good enough to dominate like that.

So yeah… I’ve got concerns.
 

E5 Yaz

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Yeah, that list shows he's only doing surface level analysis (and not even good analysis) and we get much better than that in a million other places.
King must agree; today, he retweets Volin's insightful analysis
 

NortheasternPJ

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View: https://twitter.com/globechadfinn/status/1569828548977856513?s=46&t=t-V9Su0FgaqTm1n0Xwg-Ug


Kraft can’t be happy about these numbers. And if the team continues to suck the ratings will get even worse.
I don't disagree with the overall point that the Pats ratings will sink if they're terrible, but using a season long average to compare the first game on a September Sunday in New England isn't a great data point. They had a huge game against the Bucs, it was Mac Jones' first season and they were on a hot streak for the middle part of the season. Compared to a first game against the Dolphins to the whole season seems like something Eric Van would do

I don't doubt the ratings are going to be lower this year, but I'd expect a better Tweet from Finn than this.
 

Bowhemian

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I don't disagree with the overall point that the Pats ratings will sink if they're terrible, but using a season long average to compare the first game on a September Sunday in New England isn't a great data point. They had a huge game against the Bucs, it was Mac Jones' first season and they were on a hot streak for the middle part of the season. Compared to a first game against the Dolphins to the whole season seems like something Eric Van would do

I don't doubt the ratings are going to be lower this year, but I'd expect a better Tweet from Finn than this.
What is wrong with the tweet? He is just stating facts without opinion.
 

Shelterdog

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Kraft can’t be happy about these numbers. And if the team continues to suck the ratings will get even worse.
Kraft is about as old as the queen and is hanging out with Mike Tyson. So not so sure I care about what he thinks. But I do think the Pats have what I'll call the Jerry Jones problem--which is that so much of their wealth is tied up in the team, the stadium, patriots place, etc. that they really financially need the team (as much as a billionaire needs anything) to be essentially a playoff team every year for the numbers to work--and I suspect that makes the Kraft family act with a little more urgency than perhaps the Seahawks or someone acted historically. We're at the very beginning of season three post brady and you already have the Krafts leaking stories about being unhappy with a coaching decision.
 

NortheasternPJ

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What is wrong with the tweet? He is just stating facts without opinion.
There's nothing wrong with it, I just think it's incomplete. I have no idea what the Week 1 ratings were last year, but seems to be a more important data point, especially since people are using it to point out Kraft can't be happy!

DuckDuckGo'ing this

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/patriots-2021-tv-ratings-reflect-optimism-mac-jones-teams-future

It's not like they're drawing at the bottom the league in ratings. It's just not what it was.
 

Van Everyman

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From Bedard's latest podcast, "I'm horrified about the cornerback position. I mean, petrified at this point."
Worth noting, this fear was pretty much unfounded based on game 1 at least.
Ty is less spry, however ...

Edit: re. the first point, Bedard says this in his writeup:

Secondary (2.5 out of 5)

If you're letting Tagovailoa have a 104.4 rating while getting pressured 38 percent of the time, that means the coverage isn't good enough. That's a good pass rush, and you should be able to play good coverage behind it. A lot of it had to do with the linebackers, but Dugger, Bryant and Jack Jones all had big coverage issues. ... Dugger was great in the box, and weak in coverage three times. He's starting to become Patrick Chung: only a box safety or man-to-man cover guy. ... Jonathan Jones had a great game for an assignment against Tyreek Hill. Wonder if he goes back to being a slot corner.
To the naked eye, I didn't think they looked as bad as he did, but I certainly didn't think it was dire either.
 
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jezza1918

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There's nothing wrong with it, I just think it's incomplete. I have no idea what the Week 1 ratings were last year, but seems to be a more important data point, especially since people are using it to point out Kraft can't be happy!

DuckDuckGo'ing this

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/patriots-2021-tv-ratings-reflect-optimism-mac-jones-teams-future

It's not like they're drawing at the bottom the league in ratings. It's just not what it was.
I believe weather last year on opening day was just as nice as this sunday, but I'd imagine timing plays a role at this point of the year in New England as well. using myself as an anecdote, the 425 start time last year allowed me to spend most of the day outside, and still get in front of a tv for kickoff. This year I missed the entire first half and then some...I dont imagine it affects complete diehards, but I'm sure there are quite a few dialed in fans like myself that chose a sunny late summer day over the first few quarters of game 1.
 

cornwalls@6

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This is not meant to be a hot take, and I'm not in anyway advocating for it, but does it feel a little like things are lining up for this to not end well/on his terms for BB? Krafts comments in the off-season about his dissatisfaction with the playoff win drought and bad recent drafts. His questioning of an in-game coaching decision this past week. Whatever tension remains over Brady's departure. The team looking like it's still a ways away from true super bowl contention. I think he's the best coach in the history of the league, and I want him to stay and do the rebuild. But billionaire owners, even the best ones, can be impatient and reactionary. Both Tom Landry and Chuck Knoll were shown the door at younger ages than BB is now. What would've seemed unthinkable to me even a year ago, seems less so now.

Edited for GD fat fingered, mobil posting.
 

jsinger121

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This is not meant to be a hot take, and I'm not in anyway advocating for it, but does it feel a little like things are lining up for this to not end well/on his terms for BB? Krafts comments in the off-season about his dissatisfaction with the playoff win drought and bad recent drafts. His questioning of an in-game coaching decision this past week. Whatever tension remains over Brady's departure. The team looking like it's still a ways away from true super bowl contention. I think he's the best coach in the history of the league, and I want him to stay and do the rebuild. But billionaire owners, even the best ones, can be impatient and reactionary. Both Tom Landry and Chuck Knoll were shown the door at younger ages than BB is now. What would've seemed unthinkable to me even a year ago, seems less so now.

Edited for GD fat fingered, mobil posting.
Noll retired while Landry was shown the door by Jerry Jones. I definitely agree that things are likely not going to end well for Belichick.
 

54thMA

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This is not meant to be a hot take, and I'm not in anyway advocating for it, but does it feel a little like things are lining up for this to not end well/on his terms for BB?
Yes they are.

And no it won't.

As @Shelterdog pointed out up thread, Kraft needs a successful product on the field to make this whole thing work, I'm glad he's a hands on owner who's not going to stand for the team not doing well.

Belichick has drafted poorly, signed some lousy free agents, let some quality players walk while surrounding himself with a group of bad coaches.

He doesn't have to worry about Patricia or Judge leaving, they both stink. Under Patricia's watch, the Patriots got shredded in the Super Bowl by a back up QB, that game was his high water mark, he should have been able to come up with something at halftime to stop the bleeding, but nope, they got torched.

And he ended up back here, no clue what his actual job is, I don't get what any of this is about, you've got a second year QB here, this can't be good for his development, they ran a vanilla offense vs Miami and put up a measly 7 points, that game was unwatchable, just a terrible performance.

Kraft cannot be too happy with what he sees.

Nor should he be.
 

SMU_Sox

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Not to get too off-track but the defense the Patriots trotted onto the field vs the Eagles was injured and putrid. That defense had been bailed out all year by their offense and STs (field position). They had basically PS slot defenders and no pass rush. Front 7 was garbage. It was the worst defense in the league by DVOA or 2nd worst and the worst DVOA on defense from a BB team I think in his entire tenure here.
 

Shelterdog

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Yes they are.

And no it won't.

As @Shelterdog pointed out up thread, Kraft needs a successful product on the field to make this whole thing work, I'm glad he's a hands on owner who's not going to stand for the team not doing well.

Belichick has drafted poorly, signed some lousy free agents, let some quality players walk while surrounding himself with a group of bad coaches.

He doesn't have to worry about Patricia or Judge leaving, they both stink. Under Patricia's watch, the Patriots got shredded in the Super Bowl by a back up QB, that game was his high water mark, he should have been able to come up with something at halftime to stop the bleeding, but nope, they got torched.

And he ended up back here, no clue what his actual job is, I don't get what any of this is about, you've got a second year QB here, this can't be good for his development, they ran a vanilla offense vs Miami and put up a measly 7 points, that game was unwatchable, just a terrible performance.

Kraft cannot be too happy with what he sees.

Nor should he be.
I'm more sanguine than this.

The team sucked on Sunday. No question about it.

BB has done a great job for twenty years running the show, and less so recently. Absolutely deserves to be watched carefully and scrutinized particularly with what appear to be pretty eccentric choices of having two senior offensive coordinators who don't have much experience on that side of the ball (I'm less concerned with the idea that Patricia and Judge both stink--they were both highly regarded assistants and not everybody is going to be a good head coach). BUt it's week one, let's see what it looks like in a month, and if the offense is still vanilla and ineffective and if Jones is struggling lets revisit it then.
 

jablo1312

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Kraft can’t be happy about these numbers. And if the team continues to suck the ratings will get even worse.
Yes they are.

And no it won't.

As @Shelterdog pointed out up thread, Kraft needs a successful product on the field to make this whole thing work, I'm glad he's a hands on owner who's not going to stand for the team not doing well.

Belichick has drafted poorly, signed some lousy free agents, let some quality players walk while surrounding himself with a group of bad coaches.

He doesn't have to worry about Patricia or Judge leaving, they both stink. Under Patricia's watch, the Patriots got shredded in the Super Bowl by a back up QB, that game was his high water mark, he should have been able to come up with something at halftime to stop the bleeding, but nope, they got torched.

And he ended up back here, no clue what his actual job is, I don't get what any of this is about, you've got a second year QB here, this can't be good for his development, they ran a vanilla offense vs Miami and put up a measly 7 points, that game was unwatchable, just a terrible performance.

Kraft cannot be too happy with what he sees.

Nor should he be.
does patricia get any credit for some of the solid defensive performance they had in the playoffs over his years as DC? Or just blame for the bad ones.

I'm not doing the draft argument but I really don't know what you people expect from the draft year over year, especially when every study basically ever done on it shows that drafting significantly above average for any extensive period of it time is an unrepeatable skill.