2022-23 NBA Game Thread

HomeRunBaker

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BREAKING NEWS:
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he already has.

After you get past the top 16-17 PG’s there is the next group of starters which is where Fultz currently resides in my rankings. Fwiw, I have him closer to that Top-17 than to 25-30. He was an integral part of why Orlando has played .500 since the injury-riddled 5-20 start by the Magic.
Markelle doing more Markelle things.

View: https://twitter.com/worldwidewob/status/1642680864445435904?s=21&t=UCtU9Mho_0zYWQVbzGD1SA
 

Kliq

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Lofton has been kind of a meme player after he helped Team USA beat France in the U19 World Championships a few years ago (the Wemby breakout game). He's got a fun game but I don't see him as a real NBA player. Nice to see him get a little run tonight though.
 

Just a bit outside

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Huerter gets hit in the face, no call, and then pushes Hardaway down and is called for an offensive. He then yells at the ref and gets a T. Play is then reviewed and they see that he was hit in the face so they reverse the foul call but he still gets the T even though he was right. Kinda sucks to be proven right but still get the T.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Lofton has been kind of a meme player after he helped Team USA beat France in the U19 World Championships a few years ago (the Wemby breakout game). He's got a fun game but I don't see him as a real NBA player. Nice to see him get a little run tonight though.
Reminds me of Mark Jackson’s late brother “Escalade” when he was at St John’s and later a star on the And1 Mix Tape Tour.
 

jon abbey

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With Randle and Brunson out, Quickley, Grimes and Toppin combine for 107, first time in league history three teammates all had 30+ and at least 5 3s. NY is now 17-6 since trading for Josh Hart.
 

Kliq

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Reminds me of Mark Jackson’s late brother “Escalade” when he was at St John’s and later a star on the And1 Mix Tape Tour.
He's not that big lol!

Lofton is a hard player to have a good NBA career because being heavy allows him to be effective on offense. The bulk and center of gravity allow him to bounce around in the paint and create space for his shot. If he lost 40 lbs and was 230, he wouldn't be able to do that. The issue is on defense he simply isn't quick enough to hang at the NBA level. He'll probably have an excellent career in Europe though.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It will have to be a pretty epic collapse the way this one is headed. That said it is six+ mins.

Also, big ups Tormund Giantsbane.
 

ElUno20

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Clippers shot 3 more free throws
They shouldve stopped the game and had a ceremony.

Since around January it's been nuts. Lakers get to play without fouling a ton, their ft diff has to be #1 in the league. Ive watched them all year and the whistle change has been too obvious.
 

Sam Ray Not

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They shouldve stopped the game and had a ceremony.

Since around January it's been nuts. Lakers get to play without fouling a ton, their ft diff has to be #1 in the league. Ive watched them all year and the whistle change has been too obvious.
This chart is from two weeks ago. It's freaking ridiculous. But, "it's just the style they play, there's no conspiracy, something, something..." And I haven't checked the exact numbers, but remember hearing that a big spike in the differential coincides really closely with the Cs-Lakers game wherein one missed call on The King caused the entire NBA league office to commit goddamn seppuku.

 
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bigq

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This chart is from two weeks ago. It's freaking ridiculous. But, "it's just the style they play, there's no conspiracy, something, something..." And I haven't checked the exact numbers, but remember hearing that a big spike in the differential coincides really closely with the Cs-Lakers game wherein one missed call on The King caused the entire NBA league office to commit goddamn seppuku.

Yikes. It's good to be king.
 

HomeRunBaker

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They shouldve stopped the game and had a ceremony.

Since around January it's been nuts. Lakers get to play without fouling a ton, their ft diff has to be #1 in the league. Ive watched them all year and the whistle change has been too obvious.
The Lakers. With LeBron, Davis and now Reaves, are always going to get more whistles as their players are superior than their opponents at drawing contact and fouls. I feel strongly about this and their skillset.

Edit: Heh, just read the previous posts after I submitted mine. It’s the truth though.
 

BigSoxFan

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The Lakers. With LeBron, Davis and now Reaves, are always going to get more whistles as their players are superior than their opponents at drawing contact and fouls. I feel strongly about this and their skillset.

Edit: Heh, just read the previous posts after I submitted mine. It’s the truth though.
Do you feel strongly that this style of play explains the massive delta between the Lakers and everyone else? I hate to both sides an argument but I feel like both sides are correct here. The Lakers' style impacts their FTA and they're also probably getting disproportionately favorable calls due to whatever reason.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Do you feel strongly that this style of play explains the massive delta between the Lakers and everyone else? I hate to both sides an argument but I feel like both sides are correct here. The Lakers' style impacts their FTA and they're also probably getting disproportionately favorable calls due to whatever reason.
Yes I absolutely do. Drawing fouls is a skillset of a player. It’s not a “Laker” thing, it’s an individual player thing.

LeBron has avg over 10 FTA/g earlier in his career with Cleveland, Davis is in the Top-20 FTA every year despite missing a ton of games, and I pointed out last week how elite Reaves was at getting to the line in college which is translating now to the pros. What do people expect to happen when the ball is primarily in the hands of these three players? Most teams don’t have anyone as skilled as these guys in this area….the Lakers have 3.

I wanted to stop and make a clip of a couple Reaves plays the other night that were absolutely Chris Paul-level brilliant at creating an angle to put the defender in a vulnerable position and then using different techniques in drawing the foul. There were 3 examples that were next level stuff but I got sidetracked. That kid is going to get paid this summer or when he’s a FA.
 

JCizzle

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Yes I absolutely do. Drawing fouls is a skillset of a player. It’s not a “Laker” thing, it’s an individual player thing.

LeBron has avg over 10 FTA/g earlier in his career with Cleveland, Davis is in the Top-20 FTA every year despite missing a ton of game, and I pointed out last week how elite Reaves was at getting to the line in college which is translating now to the pros.
I mean, another team in the league has Embiid and Harden on the same team when we're talking about career FTA kings, ha.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I mean, another team in the league has Embiid and Harden on the same team when we're talking about career FTA kings, ha.
Harden’s game has changed a lot since he was that guy though. He’s acting more as a pure PG and other than Embiid the team is loaded with spot-up shooters so nobody else is drawing fouls.
 

SteveF

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Lakers are 27th in 3 point frequency and 3rd in rim frequency.
To put this in some context, the Celtics 3pt frequency - Rim frequency is ~21%. The Lakers is 1.42%. 1.42% is lowest in the league, based on cursory look.
Based on shot profile alone I'd expect the Lakers to lead the league in FTAs.
 

BigSoxFan

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You seriously do not believe that the ability to draw fouls isn’t a skillset?
The Lakers were 16th in the league last year with a -0.3 FTA differential. Same 3 guys on the team for roughly the same amount of games. AD played a little less but that’s about it.

What changed?
 

Kliq

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LeBron also isn't that elite at getting to the line anymore, as his game has significantly changed since he was a young'in in Cleveland. He's 19th in the NBA in FTA per game and shoots half as many free throws as Giannis.
 

Sam Ray Not

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You seriously do not believe that the ability to draw fouls isn’t a skillset?
Lol, dude, you usually need to rent a semi-truck to move goalposts that far. Your original claim was, "most teams don’t have anyone as skilled as these guys in this area."

Let's start with two obvious guys who make the King (6.1 fta per 36), the Brow (8.5), and Austin freaking Reaves (5.2) look like total pantywaists when it comes to getting themselves to the stripe.

Giannis fta/36 last five seasons: 10.5, 11.8, 10.4, 12.5, 13.7
Embiid fta/36 last five seasons: 10.8, 10.4, 12.4, 12.6, 12.3

And using LeBron's 6.1 fta/36 as a baseline, let's address your specific claim that "most teams" don't have "anyone" as skilled in that area:

MIL: Giannis 13.7
PHI: Embiid 12.3, Harden 6.1
BOS: Tatum 8.1
NYK: Randle 7.0, Brunson 5.9
BKN: Durant 7.3, Bridges 6.9, Thomas 6.6
MIA: Butler 9.4, Bam 5.9
ATL: Trae 9.0
TOR: Siakam 6.5
CHI: DeRozan 7.1, LaVine 5.6
ORL: Banchero 7.9
IND: Mathurin 7.2
WAS: Porzingis 7.1
DET: Burks 6.0
====
DEN: Jokic 6.5
MEM: Morant 9.2, JJJ 6.1
SAC: Fox 6.6, Sabonis 5.8
PHO: Booker 7.0, Durant 6.4
LAC: Powell 6.2, Kawhi 5.6
GSW: Poole 6.0
NOP: Zion 9.3, Ingram 6.4
OKC: SGA 11.0 (!!)
DAL: Luka 10.4
UTA: Markkanen 6.3, Sexton 6.3
POR: Lillard 9.5
HOU: JGreen 6.4

And this is all despite the fact that none of these guys' teams enjoy favorable whistles the same degree the Lakers do. Unless your argument is that the Lakers are actually getting boned by the refs despite being so much more skilled at getting to the line than anyone else?
 
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Sam Ray Not

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Lakers are 27th in 3 point frequency and 3rd in rim frequency.
To put this in some context, the Celtics 3pt frequency - Rim frequency is ~21%. The Lakers is 1.42%. 1.42% is lowest in the league, based on cursory look.
Based on shot profile alone I'd expect the Lakers to lead the league in FTAs.
Leading the league is one thing — someone has to lead the league in FTA. But having *significantly higher FTA differential than the #2 and #3 teams combined* is something else.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Lol, dude, you usually need to rent a semi-truck to move goalposts that far. Your original claim was, "most teams don’t have anyone as skilled as these guys in this area."

Let's start with two obvious guys who make the King (6.1 fta per 36), the Brow (8.5), and Austin freaking Reaves (5.2) look like total pantywaists when it comes to getting themselves to the stripe.

Giannis fta/36 last five seasons: 10.5, 11.8, 10.4, 12.5, 13.7
Embiid fta/36 last five seasons: 10.8, 10.4, 12.4, 12.6, 12.3

And using LeBron's 6.1 fta/36 as a baseline, let's address your other claim that "most teams" don't have "anyone" as skilled in that area:

MIL: Giannis 13.7
PHI: Embiid 12.3, Harden 6.1
BOS: Tatum 8.1
NYK: Randle 7.0, Brunson 5.9
BKN: Durant 7.3, Bridges 6.9, Thomas 6.6
MIA: Butler 9.4, Bam 5.9
ATL: Trae 9.0
TOR: Siakam 6.5
CHI: DeRozan 7.1, LaVine 5.6
ORL: Banchero 7.9
IND: Mathurin 7.2
WAS: Porzingis 7.1
DET: Burks 6.0
====
DEN: Jokic 6.5
MEM: Morant 9.2, JJJ 6.1
SAC: Fox 6.6, Sabonis 5.8
PHO: Booker 7.0, Durant 6.4
LAC: Powell 6.2, Kawhi 5.6
GSW: Poole 6.0
NOP: Zion 9.3, Ingram 6.4
OKC: SGA 11.0 (!!)
DAL: Luka 10.4
UTA: Markkanen 6.3, Sexton 6.3
POR: Lillard 9.5
HOU: JGreen 6.4

(And this is all despite the fact that none of these guys' teams enjoy NBA-encouraged favorable whistles the same degree the Lakers do.)
Most of these teams have one player, some have two on this list. The Lakers have 3 of the best with the ball in their hands most of the time. When it’s not, it’s in the hands of DAR or Schroder who are going to add 6-7 FTA/g.

I mean I don’t know what else to say….the ball is in the hands of these 3 Laker players nearly the entire game whenever the shot clock is in single digits. They are going to draw a shit ton more fouls than other teams who don’t have more than 1-2 players with similar skillsets…..Enjoy complaining about it until they are eliminated bc they should continue getting to the line at a much higher rate than their opponents in the playoffs when there are no B2B that will slow that part of their game down.
 

Euclis20

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Here are the Lakers' ranks in free throw attempts per game, and opponents free throw attempts per game since AD joined the team (oldest first):

2020: 8th and 14th
2021: 6th and 8th
2022: 9th and 26th
2023: 1st and 2nd

It's not just the maturation of Austin Reaves, who is 59th in the league in free throw attempts. The massive jump/drop in free throws allowed jumps out a lot more to me. I'm not one for conspiracy theories, it's just a bad fucking look for a team that whined harder than any team has before, and at that time I believe the 2 minute reports showed that the Lakers had ALREADY been the beneficiary of more late game blown calls than any team in the league.
 

tims4wins

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This chart is from two weeks ago. It's freaking ridiculous. But, "it's just the style they play, there's no conspiracy, something, something..." And I haven't checked the exact numbers, but remember hearing that a big spike in the differential coincides really closely with the Cs-Lakers game wherein one missed call on The King caused the entire NBA league office to commit goddamn seppuku.

Chart not showing up, can you link?
 

kieckeredinthehead

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Through the Celtics game, the Lakers were averaging 25.4 free throws per game and giving their opponents 22.4, a difference of +3.0 free throws per game. Since the refs started having sleepless nights, the Lakers are averaging 29.1 and opponents 18.8, a difference of +10.3. Half of their wins in that time have been by 10 or fewer points.
 

BigSoxFan

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Through the Celtics game, the Lakers were averaging 25.4 free throws per game and giving their opponents 22.4, a difference of +3.0 free throws per game. Since the refs started having sleepless nights, the Lakers are averaging 29.1 and opponents 18.8, a difference of +10.3. Half of their wins in that time have been by 10 or fewer points.
Thanks. I was going to do this research to see how it changed post Bron meltdown. Again, seems like a pretty sizable shift. The Lakers didn't suddenly change their style midseason, did they? A 7+ change in FTA differential seems like quite a shift. Nobody is disputing that the Lakers should fare well here. What is being disputed is the delta between them and the next few teams, which is pretty meaningful.
 

lovegtm

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It's pretty hard to look at the data and think anything other than "LeBron successfully lobbied the refs to get his team into the playoffs."

The double standard isn't some far-fetched conspiracy: the referees publicly apologized to him on Twitter for blowing a call, in weirdly emotional language. They don't do that for anyone else.

In conclusion, fuck LeBron and his whiny ass. Be better at basketball.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Through the Celtics game, the Lakers were averaging 25.4 free throws per game and giving their opponents 22.4, a difference of +3.0 free throws per game. Since the refs started having sleepless nights, the Lakers are averaging 29.1 and opponents 18.8, a difference of +10.3. Half of their wins in that time have been by 10 or fewer points.
Which ironically coincided with Davis’ return to the lineup after missing 20 games. It’s almost like the Lakers got to the line more once Davis replaced Thomas Bryant in the lineup.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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Which ironically coincided with Davis’ return to the lineup after missing 20 games. It’s almost like the Lakers got to the line more once Davis replaced Thomas Bryant in the lineup.
Speaking of being out, what’s LeBron been up to?

Keep ignoring the second part of free throw differential. Of the 15 Lakers playing more than 10 minutes a game, 12 are being called for fewer fouls since the Boston game, on average each of them is fouling 0.24 times less often (t=2.33, p=0.03).
 

Sam Ray Not

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Meanwhile, the King was whining after last night’s game about it being the second game of a B2B.

Fewest B2B in the NBA this season: LAL (12)

Most opponents on road B2Bs this season: LAL (15 — no other team has more than 11).
 

JCizzle

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Meanwhile, the King was whining after last night’s game about it being the second game of a B2B.

Fewest B2B in the NBA this season: LAL (12)

Most opponents on road B2Bs this season: LAL (15 — no other team has more than 11).
At this point he knows the league will simply apologize and get him and the Lakers what they want.
 

the moops

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Meanwhile, the King was whining after last night’s game about it being the second game of a B2B.

Fewest B2B in the NBA this season: LAL (12)

Most opponents on road B2Bs this season: LAL (15 — no other team has more than 11).
Regardless, it is dumb to schedule a back to back like last night this late in the season. To have to fly from Salt Lake to LA at midnight or whatever and then play next day is dumb
 

Smokey Joe

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Regardless, it is dumb to schedule a back to back like last night this late in the season. To have to fly from Salt Lake to LA at midnight or whatever and then play next day is dumb
Maybe LeBron should have breakdown and throw a tantrum on the floor during a game about it.