2021/2022 Champions League: Not the Super League

SocrManiac

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Two teams competing for the title of the most unlikable in Europe. Does anybody have any interest in focusing on the sport or is it just all shithousery?
 

Zososoxfan

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I love love LOVE Simeone, but his sides always tend to lack composure. It's bad enough when it happens after the result is decided, but they still have a chance in this one.
 

Zososoxfan

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What a fucking finish, my word. Atleti had a handful of real chances between the last 20 minutes of regulation, and the 10 minutes of stoppage time!
 

bosox4283

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Watching that match, I don't know if Atletico could have gone toe-to-toe against City for both legs. While I cringed at times with Simeone's 5-5-0, the plan almost worked perfectly -- if only KDB and Foden didn't score a brilliant goal and Atletico had a bit more luck with the few chances they had in the second leg. There's numerous arguments to be match that Atleti is anti-futbol or that Simeone is outdated or that the team is dirty -- all might be true -- but I just love the passion of the game and Simeone's theatrics and the team's intensity. Perhaps I ought to want to be a fan of Villarreal, a team from a town of 50,000 people that continually finds a way to compete and play good football, but I'm stuck rooting for Atletico at this point and get such a thrill of these sorts of games.

Only one team can win this thing, so I'm glad I can have so much fun in losing.
 

Section30

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Simeone walked over and said something to the the City players who were acknowledging the fans that led to one player having to be restrained by the official and teammates.

What a tool.
 

SocrManiac

Tommy Seebach’s mustache
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I don’t understand how Simeone/Atletico aren’t rendering themselves obsolete. They have institutionalized pushing the darker side of the laws, conceding that they will lose players to being on the wrong side of the line. How has this not instantly turned the officiating against them?

As a referee, how do you prepare? You know that a team and coach is going to instigate you and the other team, attempt to deceive you in every challenge, take shots behind your back, and force you to make difficult, game-changing decisions at every turn. My assumption is that, striving for impartiality, referees actually end up putting up with the bullshit more than they would with other sides, wondering in realtime where the line actually is. I think the referees in Spain have some level of advantage in that they deal with it far more frequently than a CL referee that might see that level of shithousery a couple of times per year, max.

There is no rule or incentive that says you must play the game a certain way and Atletico exemplify that. Knowing that offside language is impossible to craft correctly, I don’t think that there’s any lawmaking that can clean this up. I do know that if it were my team, I’d far rather lose with dignity than win the way Atletico do. Losing the way they did today would be the most embarrassing fan experience imaginable for me. Italy’s performance in the Euros are the prime example- I had to turn off some of their knockout play because I couldn’t stand it. The final against England wasn’t bad, but I can’t look back on the tournament with any level of pride knowing how they behaved in the lead up.
 

bosox4283

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I don’t understand how Simeone/Atletico aren’t rendering themselves obsolete. They have institutionalized pushing the darker side of the laws, conceding that they will lose players to being on the wrong side of the line. How has this not instantly turned the officiating against them?

As a referee, how do you prepare? You know that a team and coach is going to instigate you and the other team, attempt to deceive you in every challenge, take shots behind your back, and force you to make difficult, game-changing decisions at every turn. My assumption is that, striving for impartiality, referees actually end up putting up with the bullshit more than they would with other sides, wondering in realtime where the line actually is. I think the referees in Spain have some level of advantage in that they deal with it far more frequently than a CL referee that might see that level of shithousery a couple of times per year, max.

There is no rule or incentive that says you must play the game a certain way and Atletico exemplify that. Knowing that offside language is impossible to craft correctly, I don’t think that there’s any lawmaking that can clean this up. I do know that if it were my team, I’d far rather lose with dignity than win the way Atletico do. Losing the way they did today would be the most embarrassing fan experience imaginable for me. Italy’s performance in the Euros are the prime example- I had to turn off some of their knockout play because I couldn’t stand it. The final against England wasn’t bad, but I can’t look back on the tournament with any level of pride knowing how they behaved in the lead up.
I'm not sure I saw the same shithousery that you did, even though I'm admittedly bias. Yes, Felipe made one brutal tackle on Foden and then most likely swung the leg a bit at the end, but having watched Felipe the whole year, he averages about one or two boneheaded plays a game and lets his emotions get the best of him from time to time. So, maybe Simeone's style gives Felipe space to flip out, but I tend to think Simeone has a player that is often out of control -- and who wouldn't have played if Gimenez weren't injured. In short, I don't view Felipe as a reflection of Atletico.

When Correa take a bit of knock in the box -- I don't think it was a penalty, but I wish the ref had taken a look via VAR -- Correa went to the ground in the same way lots of players fall. It was dramatic and exaggerated, but I'm not sure I view Correa's attempts at persuasion to be out of the ordinary.

Savic and Vrsaljko both lost their minds -- Savic on the pitch and Vrsaljko in the tunnel -- but I sort of like these flashes of emotion and overreactions. I know this view contradicts how I strive to live life, but on the pitch, give me the tough-as-hell bastard who goes just one or two steps too far. Of course, Savic's antics may have hurt Atletico's momentum, so perhaps it was entirely stupid.

Beyond these three incidents, I thought Atletico played a tough match with minimal antics. After all, Atletico needed two goals to win and there was no time for playing the dark arts. I wish Atletico played this way more often, though I suspect Simeone has decided it is not sustainable nor does he have the talent to match the biggest teams in Spain and Europe over the long run.
 

SocrManiac

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I think you accept a level of this style of play that I don't. There's nothing appealing to me about the black arts- it's a compensation mechanism for being unable to win through playing the intended game. Can't win at soccer? Create a new game.

Atletico's consistent antics mean that no referee is going to take a second look at Correa. They are never going to get the benefit of a doubt on any play. If they played with a modicum of decorum a referee would be far more likely to look at the monitor.

Agree to disagree on their behavior during and after the match. You like the emotion, I think they're amateurish hotheads with no restraint. People emulating that behavior in Sunday Leagues is exactly why I stopped playing.
 

teddykgb

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I disagree. Atletico seemed to get quite a lot of benefit of doubt yesterday in spite of their general antics. Refs don’t know how to handle them and constantly fall into the trap of trying to treat them as any other team only to have the match get away from them as a penalty for the early leniency. The early foul by Felipe on Foden was an opportunity for the ref to establish that playing out of control wasn’t going to work. Instead he warned him, had to card him a few moments later when he left one in on KDB and found himself backpedaling while the Atletico players surrounded him. Once that happened the Atletico players were always going to spend the match applying pressure.

The Correa incident was fine. He exaggerated but didn’t dive and on another day I’m on here livid about the super soft penalty that screwed my team. I’m glad they essentially got it right but you stuff like that called a penalty from time to time and I’m not gonna harp on Correa for exaggerating that contact on a big moment until that stuff is treated more uniformly
 

Dummy Hoy

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I think that's right teddy- the ref had a bad first half that ended up setting the tone for the game. I've seen him before and he's usually good (and I thought he handled the last 15 minutes as well as one could), but his inability to shut it down early led to problems all game.
 

67YAZ

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Rodri - “When that [the melee] happened, I tried to stay out of it; it’s my teammates and my ex-teammates and it is not at all pleasant for me.”

The tunnel fighting sounds quite bad and stupid. There should be some suspensions for this - Savic for a good long time, Vrsaljko for a few UEFA matches, and then other instigators & physical reactors for a match.

It would also be good for UEFA to clarify and enforce an NBA-style “don’t leave your bench” rule. City players spilling onto the pitch accelerated the confrontation. That doesn’t excuse Slavic’s behavior in any way.
 

bosox4283

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Rodri - “When that [the melee] happened, I tried to stay out of it; it’s my teammates and my ex-teammates and it is not at all pleasant for me.”

The tunnel fighting sounds quite bad and stupid. There should be some suspensions for this - Savic for a good long time, Vrsaljko for a few UEFA matches, and then other instigators & physical reactors for a match.

It would also be good for UEFA to clarify and enforce an NBA-style “don’t leave your bench” rule. City players spilling onto the pitch accelerated the confrontation. That doesn’t excuse Slavic’s behavior in any way.
I haven't seen video of the Savic-Grealish tunnel fight/scrum/whatever, but a few of Savic's on-field moves should land him a suspension. Between yanking Foden off the pitch, head-butting Sterling, and grabbing Grealish's hair, there's enough there to keep him out a few games. Coincidentally, I believe Savic was suspended for the first three or four Champions League matches this year for a red card last season. I love the dude, but he clearly needs an off ramp when he gets this way.

Vrsalkjko is likely to move on from Atletico. Regardless, he earned a suspension with throwing something and maybe spitting.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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First legs of the semis are this week, City/Real today and Liverpool/Villarreal tomorrow. Games at 3:00 pm eastern and should be on CBS as well as Paramount+.
 

teddykgb

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Are some key defenders out? I havent been following the team news.
Walker injured, Cancelo suspended, Stones injured, Ake returning from an injury. I have no idea who will play RB it’ll either be a youth team player or someone way out of position like a Fernandinho or a back 3

edit: some reports Stones may try to play if he can then he’d probably be RB with Zinchenko or Ake LB
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Walker injured, Cancelo suspended, Stones injured, Ake returning from an injury. I have no idea who will play RB it’ll either be a youth team player or someone way out of position like a Fernandinho or a back 3

edit: some reports Stones may try to play if he can then he’d probably be RB with Zinchenko or Ake LB
It seems like Stones must have passed a fitness test.

That sounds tentatively OK as long as there is a plan for giving him some help and not leaving him 1v1 in space against Vinicius too often.

I know City has a bad history in the CL but I would bet strongly on them advancing. Madrid are very resilient in this competition but they were worse than both Chelsea and PSG over two legs.
 
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Kliq

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Awful defending by Real Madrid. Nobody closed down Mahrez AND nobody picked up KDB until it was too late.
 

Kliq

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Real defending is non-existent. They will need a couple more meatballs served up to Benzema to get back into this one.
 

Kliq

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And yet...Benzema makes it 2-1 with a classy as hell finish.

Ederson fucking stinks, guy is DYING to give Real a free goal.
 

fletcherpost

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That Foden miss from about ten minutes ago upset the football gods - who I'm told are all Real Madrid season ticket holders.
 

Kliq

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There is the third. I'm surprised Fernandinho didn't start; he's been great since coming on.