2021-2022 Bruins Season Thread
- Thread starter cshea
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Looks like Nosek slots in between Hall and Pastrnak. Lazar centers line 4 and Fogarty slots in. Yeesh.
I think the schedule is catching up to them. 16 games in 30 days since they got back from the break. They definitely started to fall off around the WPG game and seem to be on fumes the past 3-4 games. Get through Seattle tomorrow then a much needed week off.
Their playoff spot is all but guaranteed. The schedule doesn't get much easier after the ASB. The cap makes this a challenge, but I'd be looking at load management for the core veterans over the second half of the season.
Their playoff spot is all but guaranteed. The schedule doesn't get much easier after the ASB. The cap makes this a challenge, but I'd be looking at load management for the core veterans over the second half of the season.
What also might be catching up with them is the beating that their top players have been taking lately. McAvoy got pounded by a forth liner the other night, and nobody did anything to help him. Marchand gets smoked by Hathaway and hasn’t been the same since. It’s a recurring theme.
I’m not saying that they need an enforcer, or a goon, but there are guys on this team that are big enough to at least stand for their teammates. I’m looking at guys like Forbort and Carlo specifically.
Especially Forbort. He was brought in to help add a big body and add some toughness around the net but he’s as soft as he is terrible with the puck. And Carlo gets pushed off the puck way too much for a guy his size, and it would be nice if a forward saw him and at least had to think about getting hit as they went to the net.
Carlo and Forbort are big but they've never been physical players. They are closer to Hal Gill than Zdeno Chara. I don't think you can just turn them into something they aren't. Frederic and Foligno are the best bets in this area but both are injured (one of whom was likely concussed in a fight).
I don't know. I'm kind of over fighting and responding. I don't really think it does anything other than provide fan entertainment. It doesn't deter. The toughest of them all, Milan Lucic was on the ice when Cooke ended Savard's career. Cooke didn't think twice because Lucic was on the ice. Response fights happen after the damage is done, so all you're really doing is putting another player in harms way. Cooke didn't change his ways after the "revenge" fight with Thornton or any of the countless revenge fights he had to fight in his career. Same with Wilson and other known shitheads. They just keep on shitheading.
Hathaway sent Marchand to the dressing room with an injury. Fighting him after is pointless, Marchand is already lost. Fighting or sending a message to Hathaway isn't going to bring Marchand back or get Hathaway to change his ways. The only real reason is a "we have your back" type message to Marchand, but we're not in the room we have no idea how Marchand or others feel about this stuff. Maybe he or the team has decided in these instances they prefer trying to exact revenge on the scoreboard rather than face punching. They play a skill game, trying to become physical and heavy just takes them out of what makes them successful and thus makes it more likely they lose.
I don't know. I'm kind of over fighting and responding. I don't really think it does anything other than provide fan entertainment. It doesn't deter. The toughest of them all, Milan Lucic was on the ice when Cooke ended Savard's career. Cooke didn't think twice because Lucic was on the ice. Response fights happen after the damage is done, so all you're really doing is putting another player in harms way. Cooke didn't change his ways after the "revenge" fight with Thornton or any of the countless revenge fights he had to fight in his career. Same with Wilson and other known shitheads. They just keep on shitheading.
Hathaway sent Marchand to the dressing room with an injury. Fighting him after is pointless, Marchand is already lost. Fighting or sending a message to Hathaway isn't going to bring Marchand back or get Hathaway to change his ways. The only real reason is a "we have your back" type message to Marchand, but we're not in the room we have no idea how Marchand or others feel about this stuff. Maybe he or the team has decided in these instances they prefer trying to exact revenge on the scoreboard rather than face punching. They play a skill game, trying to become physical and heavy just takes them out of what makes them successful and thus makes it more likely they lose.
Forbort. What are we doing here with this guy, man? He's so bad.
The "need toughness" crowd is loud these days and I get it, but there aren't a ton of players like that available that aren't really bad players. I think the only guys that would drop em that are even interesting that I've heard out there is Comtois and Crouse. Both are youngish left wings. Comtois had a good year last year almost completely bc of zone starts and shooting % but I think he's better than he's been this season. Maybe a post hype sleeper type. He was a guy I wanted in the 2017 draft who went a couple picks before Stud. Crouse has been about what Comtois was last year his whole career but this year his offense has ticked up a lot. I think he will be too expensive because of that.
I don't really say any other guys out there that can bang and are good. It's becoming more rare every year. Maybe the sharks would give up Middleton but he's a LHD that needs sheltering. We already have one of those dudes. I just don't see how they solve that "problem."
edit- and I agree with @cshea, I don't really think this is a need. It's a nice to have. This team needs a second line center badly. If they have two 55+ xG% lines, it doesn't really matter how tough they are.
I agree with cshea. It doesn't change bad behavior, goons are going to goon. Player Safety needs to make it painful for goons to take the actions that they take. This is what is broken in the current system.
I probably shouldn’t have lumped “toughness around the net” and defending players against goonery together. CShea is correct, the Hathaway’s of the world are still going to Hathaway no matter who is on the other side.
My biggest issue is how easy it is for players to get to the net against guys that should be large enough to handle that. Carlo brings that most nights, but when he’s not keeping guys to the outside, it’s glaring.
As far as Forbort, he literally does nothing for this team except contribute to goals against, and should be off the roster immediately. Seriously, what did Sweeney see in this guy that he had to sign him instead of letting Zboril & Vaakanainen compete for that spot in camp?
My biggest issue is how easy it is for players to get to the net against guys that should be large enough to handle that. Carlo brings that most nights, but when he’s not keeping guys to the outside, it’s glaring.
As far as Forbort, he literally does nothing for this team except contribute to goals against, and should be off the roster immediately. Seriously, what did Sweeney see in this guy that he had to sign him instead of letting Zboril & Vaakanainen compete for that spot in camp?
That's kind of what they did last year. They went into camp with Lauzon, Zboril and Vaakanainen as the LHD depth chart behind Grzelyck. Zboril and Lauzon won jobs but didn't really fill the need. Zboril was out of the picture by the deadline and Vaakanainen fell behind Tinordi on the depth chart. I can understand their hesitancy to try the same strategy again this year. They're in a race against a rapidly closing window. Zboril's performance was a pleasant surprise. Too bad he got hurt. I don't think Vaakanainen has been good. He has a 44% xGF% in 120 minutes away from McAvoy with a 52% ozone start so they might've been right about him.
I said this in the game thread last night, but I think they essentially split their needs into two players. They've been looking for a big, mobile LHD for years. It's their white whale. I think they threw up the white flag on finding one singular player (probably because those guys aren't avaiable) and decided to bring in two players to fit that role. They filled the big part with Forbort and the mobile part with Reilly.
I don't know how they landed on Forbort. Evaluating "defensive defenseman" is probably the hardest thing to do. Teams still value it, clearly the Bruins are one, and that's probably why they found and targeted him. To me, the label "defensive defenseman" means the player stinks and can't get the puck out so they are defending all the time. I'd rather err on the side of a guy who can skate and move the puck but struggles defensively than someone like Forbort who will block a shot but can't do much else. For instance, I would've taken a shot on someone like Ghostisbehere this offseason before Forbort.
I said this in the game thread last night, but I think they essentially split their needs into two players. They've been looking for a big, mobile LHD for years. It's their white whale. I think they threw up the white flag on finding one singular player (probably because those guys aren't avaiable) and decided to bring in two players to fit that role. They filled the big part with Forbort and the mobile part with Reilly.
I don't know how they landed on Forbort. Evaluating "defensive defenseman" is probably the hardest thing to do. Teams still value it, clearly the Bruins are one, and that's probably why they found and targeted him. To me, the label "defensive defenseman" means the player stinks and can't get the puck out so they are defending all the time. I'd rather err on the side of a guy who can skate and move the puck but struggles defensively than someone like Forbort who will block a shot but can't do much else. For instance, I would've taken a shot on someone like Ghostisbehere this offseason before Forbort.
I think there are actual defensive defenseman out there, Forbort just isnt really one of them. Nick Jensen, Radko Gudas, Adam Pelech, Cernak, Connor Murphy all fit the "defensive defenseman" mold and get good results. I think people just apply that label to players who are unskilled and suck. That label does fit Forbort, in that instance. I think they wanted Jake McCabe and when he signed in Chicago, went with the next LHD on the list without being creative and thinking "maybe that guys isn't that good" because they really needed a LHD who could PK.
It's turned out exactly how everyone here expected. He's SO BAD.
The player they've been looking for all along is suddenly available- Chychrun. He may not be a stud, top pair guy but he's a young, top 4 LHD with a reasonable contract. However, them finally breaking down and signing Reilly and Forbort (NMC!) might block their ability to acquire Chychrun.
I’ve been thinking more about the Bruins making an offer for Chychrun, and the more I think about it the more I think it may be the right move. Isn‘t there an old hockey saying about building a team from the goalie out?
A team with McAvoy-Grzelyck as the top pair and Carlo-Chychrun as the second pair would be formidable — and all four are signed through 2023-2024.
I'm not sure why the idea that the Bs are pretty easy to bully is controversial. They are. It may be true that speed and skill define hockey in the regular season (though the impunity with which guys like Marchand get roughed up suggests that speed and skill aren't a pass against aggression), there's no doubt that physicality matters quite a lot in a playoff series. The noticeably tougher and more truculent Bs beat the fast and skilled Canucks in a SCF; the fast and skilled Bs got pushed around and ultimately out by the tougher Blues. A speed and skill edge matters, but hockey is still a physical game.
And re: player safety - forget looking for help or 'justice' there. Years worth of experience shows that the league isn't going to re-tilt the ice against the Wilsons of the world.
And re: player safety - forget looking for help or 'justice' there. Years worth of experience shows that the league isn't going to re-tilt the ice against the Wilsons of the world.
The list of heavy and physical teams in the NHL is a short one. The Capitals are one and the Bruins skate circles around them. I don't think they lost to the Blues because the Blues were tougher.
There's a difference between being a purely heavy team and having a skilled team augmented by a heavy and physical presence of average to very slightly above average contributors (relative to their role). The Lightning come to mind as one particular example. I would say the 2019 Blues fall into that category as well. The Bruins don't really have any physical presence outside of the mediocre Foligno and Frederic.
The most successful Bs teams I've seen had a heavy presence in terms of taking the body - if an opposing player had the puck, they were likely to be on the receiving end of contact. Sure, those teams had guys who could and did fight, too, and to be fair, the max effort approach meant that they tended to be pretty worn down by playoff time. But there has to be a middle ground between playing a speed-only game and employing a bunch of goons.
The 2011 Bruins were really the last big, bad team to win the Stanley Cup. The 2018 Caps have a rep as being heavy but a lot of that is tied to Wilson. They were a skilled group who happens to have a few stars who bang a little, Ovechkin and Oshie. Hathaway and the like weren't there in 2018. The Blues had Maroon and Bortuzzo, Maroon took his largeness and annoyingness to Tampa and has suited them well, but he's really the only one they've had.
I guess my point is that these "heavy" teams have a handful of "hard to play against" types. To me, the current Bruins have that. They are not the heavest or meanest team in the league, but they also aren't at the bottom. McAvoy is as physical a #1 D as their is in the league. Marchand always has the puck which precludes ringing up a lot of hits, but he'll get in there and knock guys around. We have the requisite bottom 6ers that are big and will mix it up (when healthy) like Foligno, Blidh, Frederic. Maybe the D could use a little more snarl but it's hard to find players who can snarl and actually play good hockey.
I guess my point is that these "heavy" teams have a handful of "hard to play against" types. To me, the current Bruins have that. They are not the heavest or meanest team in the league, but they also aren't at the bottom. McAvoy is as physical a #1 D as their is in the league. Marchand always has the puck which precludes ringing up a lot of hits, but he'll get in there and knock guys around. We have the requisite bottom 6ers that are big and will mix it up (when healthy) like Foligno, Blidh, Frederic. Maybe the D could use a little more snarl but it's hard to find players who can snarl and actually play good hockey.
The bruins lost that game 7 to St. Louis the same way that they beat Vancouver in game 7 in 2011, the team that won had a hot goalie in a winner take all game. More team toughness wasn’t going to help them beat Binnington that night.
I also think its tough to say "tough teams win" when this Bruins team caved in the "toughest team in the league" last year in 5 games because they out possessed them and had much better goalie performance. Tampa gets a lot of shine as a "tough team" that won when they got some grit on the third line. What really happened there, though, is Coleman and Gourde were super high possession players and with their top 6 being so good, it allows them to overpower most teams. Their tough fourth line got caved in on most nights during both cup runs. The Pens x2, Chicago x3, Kings x2 and Bruins were all great teams by xG% in their playoff runs.
The list of players that can really bang and are still good in this league is really short. Of all the playoff teams in the east, here are the guys that fit the "tough" mold that are actually useful players:
Florida - Sam Bennett, Mason Marchment, Gudas, Weegar (this team is a handful)
Tampa - Cernak
Toronto - Muzzin maybe if you squint?
Caps - Wilson
Pens - uh?
Rangers - I know they added Goodrow and Reaves but both have been seriously awful at 5v5
Carolina - Bear
On the other hand - the terrible teams are full of tough guys:
Mon - Chiarot, Paquette, Anderson, Edmundson, Savard
Sens - Josh Brown, Brady, Auston Watson
Isles - Clutterbuck, Martin,
Arizona - Crouse, O'Brien, Roussel
I'd love it if there were 60 Marcus Foligno's or Gabriel Landeskog's in the game but there just aren't any more. Toughness in this league now means willing to take a hit to make the right play and that's about it. Bruins fans want their team to have that identity but I'm not willing to run out a guy like Liam O'Brien to look for fights and get 36% xG. They'd just lose more.
The list of players that can really bang and are still good in this league is really short. Of all the playoff teams in the east, here are the guys that fit the "tough" mold that are actually useful players:
Florida - Sam Bennett, Mason Marchment, Gudas, Weegar (this team is a handful)
Tampa - Cernak
Toronto - Muzzin maybe if you squint?
Caps - Wilson
Pens - uh?
Rangers - I know they added Goodrow and Reaves but both have been seriously awful at 5v5
Carolina - Bear
On the other hand - the terrible teams are full of tough guys:
Mon - Chiarot, Paquette, Anderson, Edmundson, Savard
Sens - Josh Brown, Brady, Auston Watson
Isles - Clutterbuck, Martin,
Arizona - Crouse, O'Brien, Roussel
I'd love it if there were 60 Marcus Foligno's or Gabriel Landeskog's in the game but there just aren't any more. Toughness in this league now means willing to take a hit to make the right play and that's about it. Bruins fans want their team to have that identity but I'm not willing to run out a guy like Liam O'Brien to look for fights and get 36% xG. They'd just lose more.
good post.
The bruins are 7th in the league in hits despite being one of the best possession teams in the league, a condition that should diminish their ability to deliver hits. They give out 51.25% of thr hits that happen in their games. They are a physical team by any measure, they just don’t have anyone who hits to hurt or a seasoned fighter. This doesn’t strike me as an actual problem.
Don’t boil the counter to a strawman suggesting the only option is to employ a skilled player or a completely useless player to do something nobody is calling for then.
I’m going to disagree on the Bruins current team being a physically imposing. They throw hits, which is a shitty metric unto itself, but not every hit is the same. McAvoy can throw big hits in the open ice but he’s not repeatedly punishing people who dump the puck into his corner. Marchand is basically the same. Maybe Foligno helps but he’s never healthy. Frederic just sucks.
I also don’t think xG captures the impact of physicality, especially in a playoff series. Hits add up and change how people play. There’s a delicate balance to strike and I don’t feel the Bruins are on the right side of that balance. And that’s not a call to revert back to the Big Bad Bruins.
I’m going to disagree on the Bruins current team being a physically imposing. They throw hits, which is a shitty metric unto itself, but not every hit is the same. McAvoy can throw big hits in the open ice but he’s not repeatedly punishing people who dump the puck into his corner. Marchand is basically the same. Maybe Foligno helps but he’s never healthy. Frederic just sucks.
I also don’t think xG captures the impact of physicality, especially in a playoff series. Hits add up and change how people play. There’s a delicate balance to strike and I don’t feel the Bruins are on the right side of that balance. And that’s not a call to revert back to the Big Bad Bruins.
They lost three other games, including because the bigger and tougher team injured one of their defensemen.
Brandon Carlo is on the books for six years at $4.1M, and he handles the puck like a fucking grenade because WAS concussed him twice and he’s now prone to concussions on basic hits, and he knows it. That’s mostly on the Bruins for extending a player with obvious concussion issues for so long, but that results in a competitive advantage to WAS.
I think you’re overstating how bad Carlo handles the puck. Derek Forbort handles the puck like a grenade. Carlo isn’t McAvoy or Grzelcyk back there, but he’s not terrible. And if his concussion concerns are so bad, that he fears taking basic hits, then he should retire now to preserve his long term health.
Look, would I like them to be tougher, especially in front of their own net? Absolutely, but the problem is, most times when you try to stock up with “big and tough” guys, you end up with big and tough guys that aren’t that good at hockey.
And would I love it if every time one of the Bruins beat the crap out of a guy for taking a shot at one of his teammates? Absolutely, because I enjoy a good hockey fight. But the last few years have shown us that no matter how “big and tough” your team is, it won’t deter the Hathaways, and Wilson’s, and Raffy Torres, and Matt Cookes of the league from running guys. Hell, Matt Cooke took out Marc Savard with Chara, Lucic, Shawn Thornton, McQuaid on the Bruins at that time.
As a counter - would the Bs look different now if the response to Hathaway boarding Marchand looked more like the Stars game than, well, nothing?
https://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2018/11/16/18097932/bruins-stars-brawl-game-2008-steve-ott-bruins-marc-savard-sean-avery-andrew-ference-shane-hnidy
https://www.stanleycupofchowder.com/2018/11/16/18097932/bruins-stars-brawl-game-2008-steve-ott-bruins-marc-savard-sean-avery-andrew-ference-shane-hnidy
The problem is with the league, not really the Bruins. Grzelyck was concussed by Oskar Sundqvist, a player not known for dirty play. His claim to fame was being brained by Wilson in a pre-season incident that resulted in a lengthy, eventually reduced Wilson suspension. Sundqvist made a bad decision in a split second that ended with Grzelyck hurt and Sundqvist suspended. Carlo was brained by Wilson. Add him to the list. Chara's fought Wilson, Frederic has fought Wilson, half the league has fought Wilson and nothing will change until the league actually gets serious about cleaning the game up. No amount of toughness is going to deter that guy.
The Bruins were the biggest and baddest in 2011 and it didn't stop Rome from taking out Horton. It is what it is. There are 2 categories, the habitual offenders, shitheads gonna shithead (Cooke, Wilson) and nothing will stop them. Then there's the fluky split second bad decision plays like Rome and Sundqvist. Those you can't plan for or predict. Any action is in response and by that time it is too late, the damage is done.
The Bruins are a little more susceptilbe to these hits because of a few things. First and foremost, they are a puck possession team. They have the puck more often than the other team, which leads to taking more hits because the other team is racing around trying to get the puck back. They also are smallish. You can try to get bigger roster wise but again, it's hard to find big guys who can actually play.
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This is a theory you need to prove right? Then in series against "physical" teams, a team's relative possession would go down if you were correct right? Would that happen on a per game level? Would a physical team change the shape of a game within that game? I'm not trying to be condescending here, but if what you said was actually true, that would happen, no? The truth is, it doesn't. There is a correlation between xG dominance and winning that just does not exist for punishing people. I think its a relic of people thinking about "the right way to play." It's the bunt or the hit and run. It's part of the fabric of the culture of the game. I just don't know if it really actually matters to game outcomes. I'd much prefer a team that plays that way to this version of the bruins. I just don't think there are many players in the league that play that way anymore that don't get absolutely caved in. I think the bruins are physical in the way that matters. They get in the way to get the puck. They don't have a lot of guys that bury their opponent but the proof is in the results.
You say you don't want to employ a plug, you just want the team to be imposing. Who are you talking about exactly? Who is that player? The players that do that mostly suck, the one's that don't are not available at all. Sweeney trying to add that kind of player got us Nick Ritchie. I prefer not.
Also, the irony of picking one line of a long post and saying I'm arguing the strawman is chef's kiss.
I haven’t once said that the Bruins need a fighter to deter physical play to prevent injury.
I am saying that the Bruins don’t bring the same level of physical play that some other teams do—especially on the forecheck—and there are examples of them being harmed by that. They need more physical play targeting important parts of other teams. They have no snarl whatsoever, especially in front of their net, post whistle, when other teams are likely to take liberties without being penalized.
Whether Sundqvist is a particularly physical player is of less important than the Blues’ style and method and the reasonably likely results thereof. The Islanders played the Bruins tough and physical too, and ended the playoffs of one of their defensemen, reducing their depth on defense, before getting McAvoy sent off by the concussion spotter in a pivotal game.
The Bruins offense is at its best when the defensemen are quickly retrieving and then smartly starting the breakout. They do that less when they are getting hammered, and their depth also takes a hit when someone gets banged up, cleanly or otherwise. They are also at their best when their forwards go to dangerous parts of the ice. They have a tendency to get away from that for stretches, though, especially when getting that real estate means getting hammered. Jumpy, thin defense and a periphery offense are the things that hurt this team.
That's kind of the point I'm making. Maybe clumsily. It's an intangible. The only metric we have for physicality is hits and the bruins are above average at delivering them and below average at receiving them despite being one of the better possession teams in the league. So we don't have anything to measure the ferocity of a check and if the amount of punishment given out has any correlation to wins and losses in the regular season or the playoffs. We have a lot of other things we can look at that are quantifiable and more directly correlate to wins and losses (chance data, xG models, goals saved above expected for goaltenders) and I'd much prefer any team building my favorite team does uses those markers as a strategy rather than looking for toughness for the sake of being tough.
Thanks, that makes sense. I agree with you that the thing we are talking about is noisy and likely currently unmeasured, and that our belief of the extent of it’s impact is therefore unfalsifiable. I’d quibble with labeling it an intangible, but that’s a pretty fine slice of the bologna on my part.
I don’t know that I agree that the two methods of team building have to be at odds, though. Torey Krug* isn’t a player someone would sign for his toughness and physicality, but he can, and was willing, to bring it.
*Example chosen specifically for incongruity.
My issue is you keep reducing the desire to have a more physical presence to physical = fighting, "toughness for toughness sake" and "run a guy out like Liam O'Brien" when (1) nobody is saying that, (2) people are presenting logic behind the why, and (3) you're ignoring any nuance. This team has a history of going into a shell when presented with overly physical teams in the playoffs. It happened against Tampa and the Isles and they basically have the same DNA. Maybe they'll get lucky and get a bunch of softer teams but I just don't feel like this team will go very far. Their softness isn't the primary reason (secondary scoring and overreliance on the PP) but it's certainly a contributing reason IMO.
Based on how this team has been officiated over the last several years, I have my doubts that building a team that dumps the puck to get in on the forecheck and hit defenseman like the Islanders or Blues did in a playoff series wouldn’t result in the Bruins spending the entire series short handed. I would rather build a puck possession team that does a great job finishing around the net.
I'm not ignoring nuance, we just disagree. I don't think Tampa and the islanders have very much in common and the reasons they've lost to those two teams in particular are quantifiable and different. I suppose there is some case to be made that if they were bigger and tougher that it would be better for them, but my argument is the means of creating that type of identity likely makes them worse at the things that we can measure that have proven to increase a team's chances of winning. As evidenced by playing the Caps last year and destroying them in laughable fashion, they don't need to run into soft teams to win. They just need to drive more of the play and get better goaltending, whoever their opponent might be. The same will hold true this year, most likely.
This... look at the interference call Marchand got yesterday, and the one he didn't get when he was about to breakaway at the end of the game. Both had the puck in the area, but Marchand goes to the box for his hit and the Bruins just lost a scoring opportunity when Brad was impeded/hooked/held.
I don't really know where to put it but jfresh just released his 2022 player cards. He had been using last year + this year bc the samples were too small.
Chuckles is still awesome.
Forbort still sucks.
Chuckles is still awesome.
Forbort still sucks.
I think the scariest part about Forbort’s card is that he actually improved from last year. So he was actually worse last year, and Sweeney decided he just had to sign him to a 3 year deal. He would’ve just been better off lighting the cap space on fire.
Day 1 of free agency and the first order of business was to give Forbort 3 years/$3m and a modified NTC. Who were they bidding against? The '19/'20 numbers were across a 20 game sample to boot. They'd done some great work in creating cap space for this past offseason, in some cases moving assets to do so. Doing all that then dropping $6.8m AAV on Backes V2 and a below-replacement level defenseman is just so unforced.
I know there are various decision makers in the organization, and a not-insignificant influence from the scouting side, but that's an enormous fuckup in a cap world - and in the case of Foligno, just a less painful version of the mistake they made with Backes.
Looking at the 8 year, $5.125m deal w/ full NMC that Edmonton gave RNH on the eve of free agency is a real 'what could have been'... that was the heir apparent #1-2C and the price was right if he made it to UFA.
I know there are various decision makers in the organization, and a not-insignificant influence from the scouting side, but that's an enormous fuckup in a cap world - and in the case of Foligno, just a less painful version of the mistake they made with Backes.
Looking at the 8 year, $5.125m deal w/ full NMC that Edmonton gave RNH on the eve of free agency is a real 'what could have been'... that was the heir apparent #1-2C and the price was right if he made it to UFA.
Playing Devil's Advocate here, but do you think RNH takes the 7-year version of that deal to come to Boston? I don't think it's a lock he does. In fact, if Edmonton offers the deal he took and Boston counters with 7/$6m per, I think he still chooses to stay.
I think this is right. hertl is really the answer here. They simply need to land him given the lack of other options and no internal solution on the horizon.
Probably, but I think even up to ~$6.5m on the open market he'd have been worth it on a 7 year deal. You can afford to overpay for a bona-fide top 2 C - it's the $2-4m papercuts that kill you
This is exactly right. If they pay $9m for Pastrnak and he gives the team $7m in value, you can absorb that. It's the wasted money on the periphery that sinks teams.
It's not really thorough, but Fluto did a piece on the deadline and the 2C stuff.
https://theathletic.com/3108221/2022/02/03/what-im-hearing-about-jack-studnicka-urho-vaakanainen-and-the-bruins-top-trade-need-its-so-obvious/
He throws out JT Miller and Claude Giroux as possible fits, but my read is that it was him speculating and not rumor reporting.
The article is more geared towards the future of Studnicka and Vaakanainen. The time might be now to cash in. Other teams are interested in both players. Studnicka's had a bumpy ride and value has dropped a tad but other teams may view him as, at minimum, a bottom-6 defensive forward. Vaakanainen is on the upswing and young, cheap defenseman will always have some value. He thinks the Bruins could also keep Vaakanainen and push out Reilly (Forbort is too important as a shutdown, PK guy lol) which puts Vaakanainen back on his strong side.
I personally don't mind cashing in on either. It seems Studnicka just isn't going to work here. I think Vaak's value is at it's peak and I'm not really sure he's an NHL player. We don't know what the future holds for Bergeron, cash 'em in now and see what happens.
https://theathletic.com/3108221/2022/02/03/what-im-hearing-about-jack-studnicka-urho-vaakanainen-and-the-bruins-top-trade-need-its-so-obvious/
He throws out JT Miller and Claude Giroux as possible fits, but my read is that it was him speculating and not rumor reporting.
The article is more geared towards the future of Studnicka and Vaakanainen. The time might be now to cash in. Other teams are interested in both players. Studnicka's had a bumpy ride and value has dropped a tad but other teams may view him as, at minimum, a bottom-6 defensive forward. Vaakanainen is on the upswing and young, cheap defenseman will always have some value. He thinks the Bruins could also keep Vaakanainen and push out Reilly (Forbort is too important as a shutdown, PK guy lol) which puts Vaakanainen back on his strong side.
I personally don't mind cashing in on either. It seems Studnicka just isn't going to work here. I think Vaak's value is at it's peak and I'm not really sure he's an NHL player. We don't know what the future holds for Bergeron, cash 'em in now and see what happens.
Id much rather use that capital than anything else in the system. Vaak is fine but hes a complementary player at best. I still like Stud's game but I think you're right, he's not going to get a chance here.
I'd have everything on the table. I wouldn't want to trade Lysell, but if it got me a bonafide 2C under control for a few years, see ya. Ditto for Lohrei, but if I could use Lohrei to get Chychrun or some similar, a controlled top-4 LHD I'd probably do it. Absolute best case scenario is Lohrei turns out to be a Chychrun anyways. Swayman is a little tricky. If someone loves him, I would use him but then you're left with just Ullmark for the future. They've already commited to Ullmark for 3 more years, he's young, and they could find a Halak type back up on the UFA market (or go year to year with Rask if things work out, which obviously looks bleak right now). I think push comes to shove, I'd move Swayman for the right return.
This is it. The time has run out. Everyone and everything should be on the table. The rebuild will likely be ugly and the time to rebuild is nearing.
This is it. The time has run out. Everyone and everything should be on the table. The rebuild will likely be ugly and the time to rebuild is nearing.
Oh, I totally agree. I'm an all in guy. The gap between their talent level and competitiveness without an elite Bergeron is so large that its almost not worth worrying about it. So the rebuild takes 1 extra year? who cares? I just mean if teams want those two guys first, I'd love that. I'm in total agreement that if including Lohrei gets you someone who is Lohrei's absolute best case scenario, I'm fine with that. Same with Lysell. He's exciting but he's a small offensive RW. This isn't Connor Bedard. Everything is on the table for the right players. The right ones.
Swayman recalled, no sign of Rask at practice. Last played 1/24. Probably not a good sign for the rest of the year that he's still out.
I guess they have 39 games left to figure it out, but that is not a huge sample, especially if Rask misses another 5-10 games. They have to use the back half of the schedule to figure out who the game 1 starter will be.
I guess they have 39 games left to figure it out, but that is not a huge sample, especially if Rask misses another 5-10 games. They have to use the back half of the schedule to figure out who the game 1 starter will be.