Your #1 and #3 still apply, if I'm not mistaken. The whole point about the documentary is that there's a perfectly legitimate reason to film the sideline, if you're there shooting a documentary about a week in the life of an advance scout.The tape is the best possible piece of evidence to answer the question. You and I are Patriots fans. Of course it seems absurd. Non Patriots fans are skeptical and of course it seems plausible. We would be more skeptical if this were the Jets.
People are taking a lot of solace in the fact that the press box is on the visitor side. In the same thread where people initially took solace in (1) oh, it was just a documentary not filming of the field, (2) oh, the reporter is a Jets fan and nobody else has it, (3) oh, it’s not even against the rules. The story just keeps getting worse and worse.
The tape is going to tell us whether the positioning mattered. And a lot of other things.
Yes, the ultimate point is that the suggestion of using contractors to provide intel to ops is absurd. And I get that as Patriots fans we are prepared to ride that into the sunset no matter what the tape shows and it’s probably true. But to not think the narrative of how this will be viewed tomorrow and in five years is going to depend on the tape probably misses how these play themselves out in 2019.
If this is actually what's on the video, I can only assume Belichick is playing 4D chess and deliberately sent the crew to tape the Bengals as a long-term motivational ploy - it's the Patriots against the world again. Because that would literally be the only explanation that makes any sense. And frankly, Belichick is so shrewd that I really wouldn't put something like this past him.View: https://twitter.com/markdanielspj/status/1204419228616540160
Honestly, they deserve whatever punishment is handed down to them.
If they sign Kaepernick will you forgive them?100% this is sickening. The Bengals are barely better than LSU. Why the hell are they filming them?
Belichick or Kraft needs to be suspended for this. 1st rounder will absolutely be taken away from the team. Such a great franchise that is tainted over crap that never needed to actually happen.
A lifetime ban is insane. I know they were there for the Do Your Job thing but the camera was focused for 8 minutes on the Bengals sideline. Come on...You should be on TV with Shannon Sharpe
Soooooooooooooo dumb.This shit is so dumb.
All of the network morning shows covered it as another cheating scandal with pretty much no context.“Good Morning America” on ABC just ran a long story about this BS and Michael Strahan had a hard time hiding his glee at another Pats scandal.
Fuck this noise.
There's a massive difference, imo, between filming signals of the team you're playing on Sunday at home or in their stadium and going to another team's stadium to film their opponent.I ask again, suppose they were filming coaching signals (whether for the benefit of football ops or documentary B-roll) - why is that a problem, exactly? They're doing it from a prescribed location. Like, what do they think the advance scout is doing there, what's his job?
So you've connected the dots that BB is the mastermind behind this scheme?A lifetime ban is insane. I know they were there for the Do Your Job thing but the camera was focused for 8 minutes on the Bengals sideline. Come on...
He certainly has the long face already.You should be on TV with Shannon Sharpe
In the rules? A massive difference in the rules?There's a massive difference, imo, between filming signals of the team you're playing on Sunday at home or in their stadium and going to another team's stadium to film their opponent.
Based off of your days working in video production or as a cameraman or it just kinda sounds like enough without actually knowing what goes into the process?But 8 minutes of filming the Bengals sideline is more than just getting B roll for a web series.
Oh what a shock you show up here.I originally chalked it up to being an overreaction after I heard the Pats were credentialed with the Browns.
But 8 minutes of filming the Bengals sideline is more than just getting B roll for a web series.
Let’s hear your theory, don’t be coy.I originally chalked it up to being an overreaction after I heard the Pats were credentialed with the Browns.
But 8 minutes of filming the Bengals sideline is more than just getting B roll for a web series.
This. I believe getting coverage and shooting more footage than than you will actually use is SOP in these kinds of productions.Based off of your days working in video production or as a cameraman or it just kinda sounds like enough without actually knowing what goes into the process?
Never said that. I said whoever is responsible him or Kraft should be suspended. Sharpe said a lifetime ban. I'm curious how you can defend a team pinched for cheating multiple times filming another teams sidelines. 8 minutes isn't exactly a short amount of time. It's not the first quarter like Russini said but with the optics on the Pats even if they did nothing wrong they need to be extra careful.So you've connected the dots that BB is the mastermind behind this scheme?
It’s quite a stretch to assume that these independent contractors who are making documentaries are sharing this video with the Pats coaching staff. Any evidence at all for this? I’m sure there is none.Never said that. I said whoever is responsible him or Kraft should be suspended. Sharpe said a lifetime ban. I'm curious how you can defend a team pinched for cheating multiple times filming another teams sidelines. 8 minutes isn't exactly a short amount of time. It's not the first quarter like Russini said but with the optics on the Pats even if they did nothing wrong they need to be extra careful.
Antonio Brown sent threatening texts to someone that accused him of sexual assault. One of these things is nothing like the other.The Patriots are dumb.
For everyone whining that "BUT BUT BUT they were doing a documentary!1!", the other 31 teams also do documentary as well right? Why is it the Patriots got caught doing this?
All over the terrible 1-12 Cincinnati Bengals. Hilarious to see the morale police defending yet another rule breaking scandal by the organization yet get their pitchforks out over Antonio Brown.
The NFL is going to absolutely hammer the Patriots. And rightfully so. As a Patriots fan, this is absolutely inexcusable.
People were claiming it was not against the rules until the patriots came out with a statement apologizing for breaking the rules.Your #1 and #3 still apply, if I'm not mistaken. The whole point about the documentary is that there's a perfectly legitimate reason to film the sideline, if you're there shooting a documentary about a week in the life of an advance scout.
I'm not even sure where you're going on this. People are saying it's not against the rules, and you're complaining that that's irrelevant? In what part of your life are rules irrelevant? Are you an agent for the CIA?
Thank you, I've been employing this razor for a long time not knowing it had a name. Weird how often it's applied to the NFL.I mean, this is all most likely a case of Hanlon’s Razor, but stupidity is still punishable when you’ve lost the benefit of doubt.
The Patriots violated league rules. By the team's own acknowledgement. The burden of proof isn't going to be on the NFL or the other owners to show how the film was used. Nor should it be, in this case.It’s quite a stretch to assume that these independent contractors who are making documentaries are sharing this video with the Pats coaching staff. Any evidence at all for this? I’m sure there is none.
Zero chance this has happened
The guy reportedly got confronted by Bengals staff and NFL security, so it only being 8 minutes is pretty irrelevant.If we are talking 8 minutes of real time - given clock stoppage, tv breaks, play clock etc etc.... That might be around 6 plays. The atrocity!!!
8 minutes? So, like what 6-8 plays?View: https://twitter.com/markdanielspj/status/1204419228616540160
Honestly, they deserve whatever punishment is handed down to them.
During the spy gate investigation videographers from Kraft were told to say they were filming the QB's, Kickers, or a TEAM SHOW. I'd say that's evidence of possible wrongdoing. The problem is we don't know exactly what is on the tape. Only 2nd hand accounts.It’s quite a stretch to assume that these independent contractors who are making documentaries are sharing this video with the Pats coaching staff. Any evidence at all for this? I’m sure there is none.
Zero chance this has happened
Why? Or do you not think intent matters?The Patriots violated league rules. By the team's own acknowledgement. The burden of proof isn't going to be on the NFL or the other owners to show how the film was used. Nor should it be, in this case.
We should be prepared to see the Pats get absolutely crushed with penalties.
Point of order, the Patriots didn't apologize for breaking the rules. The rules were that they notify the home team to get permission to film from the press box. They did. They could have, but did not, also notify the Bengals and the league. E5 keeps pointing out that not doing so was a stupid oversight, and maybe it was, and the Patriots apologized for not doing so whether they truly think it a mistake or are just saying so for mollification purposes - but if rules matter as to punishment, they followed the rules.People were claiming it was not against the rules until the patriots came out with a statement apologizing for breaking the rules.
I don't know if it's against the rules or not. I assume the Patriots do. I think their apologizing for breaking the rules is probably pretty good evidence that we were all wrong and that they broke the rules.
Of course it's relevant. Unfortunately, it seems the answer is not in our favor.
Or maybe you are saying that "policy" doesn't equate with "rules"? If you are, I think that's a pretty tenuous hook to hang one's hat on.
Nonsense. Depends on what the footage actually shows. I mean, I'm assuming advance scouts look at the sidelines.... If it turns out this was a nefarious scheme, I'll be shocked.I originally chalked it up to being an overreaction after I heard the Pats were credentialed with the Browns.
But 8 minutes of filming the Bengals sideline is more than just getting B roll for a web series.
If it's the first 8 minutes, that would cover 15 plays according the game log. Of those 15, one would be the Bengals FG try, one would be the subsequent kickoff, and then 5 or 6 plays of the Bengals on defense, possibly ending with the Mayfield INT.8 minutes? So, like what 6-8 plays?
Sorry, how are you parsing this: "We understand and acknowledge that our video crew, which included independent contractors who shot the video, unknowingly violated a league policy by filming the field and sideline from the press box."Point of order, the Patriots didn't apologize for breaking the rules. The rules were that they notify the home team to get permission to film from the press box. They did. They could have, but did not, also notify the Bengals and the league. E5 keeps pointing out that not doing so was a stupid oversight, and maybe it was, and the Patriots apologized for not doing so whether they truly think it a mistake or are just saying so for mollification purposes - but if rules matter as to punishment, they followed the rules.
(and yeah here rules and policy are somewhat interchangeable, we're talking about the NFL's rules for its teams' conduct)
This the type of shit that causes the mass hysteria. As much blame as the NFL gets, it's the media. This is "11 out of 12 footballs" bullshit that makes it sound like there's something on paper that dummies will eat up.View: https://twitter.com/markdanielspj/status/1204419228616540160
Honestly, they deserve whatever punishment is handed down to them.
I'm thinking 8 minutes of "real time". There's no way that's 15 plays.If it's the first 8 minutes, that would cover 15 plays according the game log. Of those 15, one would be the Bengals FG try, one would be the subsequent kickoff, and then 5 or 6 plays of the Bengals on defense, possibly ending with the Mayfield INT.
Agreed. Here's the thing. I'm pretty sure that the Patriots don't need to film the Bengals. However, it's absolutely stupid and the sheer optics for a repeat offender is going to be the reason for the hammer getting put down on the Pats. Now you're going to have 31 other teams coming forward asking for the B reel of any Patriots web series filmed at their stadium ever.The Patriots violated league rules. By the team's own acknowledgement. The burden of proof isn't going to be on the NFL or the other owners to show how the film was used. Nor should it be, in this case.
We should be prepared to see the Pats get absolutely crushed with penalties.
Do you think they’re flashing gang signs at chest height?As noted many times by multiple posters, the press box is located behind the Bengals bench. Even if they were up to something nefarious, they wouldn't be able to see hand signals unless they had X-ray specs.
This is fair. I remember vividly from 2007 what the rules were then, but if the Patriots are now saying they violated a league policy by filming from the press box, then perhaps it's changed since that time.Sorry, how are you parsing this: "We understand and acknowledge that our video crew, which included independent contractors who shot the video, unknowingly violated a league policy by filming the field and sideline from the press box."
You're relying on the fact that the contractors, not the Patriots, violated the policy? Again, this is a pretty tough argument. Filming the field and sideline from the press box violates league policy. That's my point. Going back to my original post, we originally all took solace in the idea that you could film from the press box. Which is wrong. Unless the Patriots are wrong. You asked where I was going. That was my point.
The picture of the press box shown earlier in the thread shows the press box off at an angle-- closer to the end zone than the 50. Given that coaches often raise and or extend their hands out when signaling it's completely reasonable that signals could be discerned from the Cleveland press box.As noted many times by multiple posters, the press box is located behind the Bengals bench. Even if they were up to something nefarious, they wouldn't be able to see hand signals unless they had X-ray specs.