Someone asked why the Pats would tell the Browns. I replied asking how else they’d get access to the press box. Someone then asked me why not just tape from the stands.What? It’s on none of us, why else are we here but to try to make sense of events literally out of our control/to which we’re passive observers. And read Rev’s posts, of course.
Look at all the obvious questions that had to be avoided or ignored to make Deflategate a thing.I’m asking you why if it was nefarious they wouldn’t use some guy not in Pats gear sitting in the stands with a phone. Seems like an obvious question.
You say "caught". So you think this was a planned thing? That this crew was sent there to video signals from behind while wearing team gear?If you’re a billionaire who can helicopter models directly to your house, why get a handjob in a suburban mall? Everyone looks dumb when they’re caught.
Speaking for myself, there’s nothing nefarious going on here, it’s too stupid to imagine. Doesn’t mean it’s not a gigantic error by the Pats which they seem to be admitting to.So clear something up--do some of you think this is a documentary crew, that can be shown to have worked on other episodes, that had secret instructions to film the Bengals? Or that that this doc crew was brought in special, just for this?
Doesn’t it work the other way? Hello, Lombardi trophy; goodbye, first round pick?Was a nice ride.
4.5 months til opening day?
Yes, yes, yes.It doesn’t matter if they are cheating or not. For all of the great things about how this organization is run this is just a stunning mistake. If you are going to have a part of your organization video taping shit after what happened last time they need to be so far above the fray that nobody could ever call anything into question. The fact that they are so quickly admitting to violating league rules is just amazing. What a stupid mistake.
Or, the last time people made a big deal out of nothing, the Pats ripped off four straight SB appearances, winning three of them, and they want to avoid continuing to poke the bear.No one thinks they're good enough to win this year
If you mean a media-driven narrative which the public eats up because everyone hates the Patriots, then yes.But isn’t the implication that they’re cheating?
So, I would hope next time the film crew alerts the stadium and wears clothing identifying them as part of the Patriots.It doesn’t matter if they are cheating or not. For all of the great things about how this organization is run this is just a stunning mistake. If you are going to have a part of your organization video taping shit after what happened last time they need to be so far above the fray that nobody could ever call anything into question. The fact that they are so quickly admitting to violating league rules is just amazing. What a stupid mistake.
You give a license to the NFL. The broadcast is an NFL property. But just by showing up at an NFL game does not give anyone else the right to use your likeness. (Unless something newsworthy happens at the game, like Jerry Jones falling off the balcony. Then your presence is a fair use.)Are you saying documentary film crews that happen to use crowd shots should get consent from the thousands of people that show up in those crowd shots?
100% this. The only reason the league might let this slide is that they've got BB on NFL Network constantly with the NFL 100 thing. They don't want to have a "cheater" on air every few minutes.It doesn’t matter if they are cheating or not. For all of the great things about how this organization is run this is just a stunning mistake. If you are going to have a part of your organization video taping shit after what happened last time they need to be so far above the fray that nobody could ever call anything into question. The fact that they are so quickly admitting to violating league rules is just amazing. What a stupid mistake.
Well, they were caught doing something wrong and admitted it. It’d be weird and dumb if they were filming the Bengals from the press box. But it’d also be weird and dumb if they didn’t know to notify the Bengals and league or avoid filming sidelines.You say "caught". So you think this was a planned thing? That this crew was sent there to video signals from behind while wearing team gear?
Seriously? Not sure where to start in disagreeing with the above.If you mean a media-driven narrative which the public eats up because everyone hates the Patriots, then yes.
If it's proven that football ops got the footage and gained something from it, I'll change my stance. Or if it's proven thatBut since they filmed this yesterday from like 12-4 while the Pats were literally getting ready for and playing a game when would they have time to review this footage?
Resisting urge to be pedanticOr, the last time people made a big deal out of nothing, the Pats ripped off four straight SB appearances, winning three of them, and they want to avoid continuing to poke the bear.
Why would they review the Bengals footage before the Chiefs game?If you mean a media-driven narrative which the public eats up because everyone hates the Patriots, then yes.
If it's proven that football ops got the footage and gained something from it, I'll change my stance. Or if it's proven thatBut since they filmed this yesterday from like 12-4 while the Pats were literally getting ready for and playing a game when would they have time to review this footage?
You responded to a post asking why it would be nefarious if they had to ask for permission. So this is a logical extension of that.Someone asked why the Pats would tell the Browns. I replied asking how else they’d get access to the press box. Someone then asked me why not just tape from the stands.
Good times.
yes, I agree they weren’t cheating, but to anyone who says they were, I ask why would they cheat to get an advantage on the Bengals? It’s a slam dunk winIf you mean a media-driven narrative which the public eats up because everyone hates the Patriots, then yes.
If it's proven that football ops got the footage and gained something from it, I'll change my stance. Or if it's proven thatBut since they filmed this yesterday from like 12-4 while the Pats were literally getting ready for and playing a game when would they have time to review this footage?
Your honor, why would I sell drugs? I'm already rich.yes, I agree they weren’t cheating, but to anyone who says they were, I ask why would they cheat to get an advantage on the Bengals? It’s a slam dunk win
What’s your angle here. The Pats statement admits they violated league rules. For a team that lost a first round pick for doing the same thing this should never, ever happen again.So, I would hope next time the film crew alerts the stadium and wears clothing identifying them as part of the Patriots.
What we don’t know, and what the league may not know, is how common this is. If 15 teams are sitting around with hours of incidental footage of the field in the archives of their various web production facilities, then this is a can of worms the league doesn’t want.Well, they were caught doing something wrong and admitted it. It’d be weird and dumb if they were filming the Bengals from the press box. But it’d also be weird and dumb if they didn’t know to notify the Bengals and league or avoid filming sidelines.
It’s an obscure rule to us, because it’s not our business. They should’ve known and followed the rule. There can’t be a ton to register when filming documentaries.
So you believe that a video crew sent to do a project on the job of advanced scouts actually were told specifically to film the field for the coaches to steal information? I don't know where to begin to disagree with that.Your honor, why would I sell drugs? I'm already rich.
There's no way that's the case.You give a license to the NFL. The broadcast is an NFL property. But just by showing up at an NFL game does not give anyone else the right to use your likeness. (Unless something newsworthy happens at the game, like Jerry Jones falling off the balcony. Then your presence is a fair use.)
But if you show up at an NFL game and video me and try to use it commercially you must get my clearance. I doubt the license extends to all 32 clubs. Maybe the home team.
No wonder they lost to the Chiefs.Why would they review the Bengals footage before the Chiefs game?
Well the Bengals are an ass backwards franchise, so there you go.From BEHIND the Bengals. It's a really shitty spy operation to literally not get a view of what they were stealing. Or something.
Are waivers not on tickets or posted in stadiums? I haven’t bought one in forever, but I’m pretty sure it’s part of the “contract” the fan agrees to as part of the purchase.There's no way that's the case.
I watched a Netflix documentary (commercial use) where they showed the crowd at a Dodgers game. They did not get the permission of everyone shown on camera.
He has spentevery game thread shitting on the team so he’s taking a victory lap here, I guess.So you believe that a video crew sent to do a project on the job of advanced scouts actually were told specifically to film the field for the coaches to steal information? I don't know where to begin to disagree with that.
Because they somehow redirected the Chiefs’ equipment to New Jersey and banked on winning that game by forfeit.Why would they review the Bengals footage before the Chiefs game?
If you accept the Patriots explanation of this story, then you're rightSo you believe that a video crew sent to do a project on the job of advanced scouts actually were told specifically to film the field for the coaches to steal information? I don't know where to begin to disagree with that.
Lol. This QB looked so shitty on tape, but he’s playing great today and looks so much taller in person!No wonder they lost to the Chiefs.
Well for one thing smartphones in 2007 weren’t great filming devices. These days with high local storage capacity, cloud computing, and high def cameras they actually are adequate for doing scout video. Especially if all you’re doing is filming the sidelines to spy on non-existent signals.Sure. So why didn’t they do that ten years ago. You know, after they and all other NFL teams received that memo from the league explicitly telling them to not do what they ended up doing?
Or stupid enough to think that a documentary camera crew employed by someone else was a BIA front.The thing is that everyone needs to believe that Belichick and the Patriots are either insanely stupid or intentionally ignoring the rules of the league for some reason. I don’t think that Belichick and the Patriots are stupid.
It's not the "same thing". At all.What’s your angle here. The Pats statement admits they violated league rules. For a team that lost a first round pick for doing the same thing this should never, ever happen again.
They were filming an episode about an advance scout. What does the advance scout do? Chart plays, look at patterns, study players, study coaches. It's not at all unthinkable that a set of B-Roll would be about some substance the scout was analyzing, so that documentary viewers could have pointed out to them what the scout was seeing.The ESPN reporter's account is pretty specific, if the tape shows what she says it shows it's going to be pretty hard to argue that it was part of the documentary. If the tape only shows the scout at work we have no issues. Either way, I don't believe this has anything to do with the Pats trying to spy on the Bengals. As I mentioned, it's too ridiculous to believe for any number of reasons. But if the tape shows a shot of the Bengals sideline with the advanced scout nowhere to be found the reason why the tape shows that won't matter.
...but if so, there's no reason for anyone to beg to delete it. And even if not, unless the rule has changed since 2007 there's no reason for anyone to be embarrassed about filming a team's sideline or coaches - as long as it's from the press box (or stands).She also said the employee was taped begging to delete it. Either that’s true, or it isn’t. If it isn’t, she should probably be fired. If it is, whoever sent the person there to tape should be.
Was it about the Larry David thing? That would be a fair use.There's no way that's the case.
I watched a Netflix documentary (commercial use) where they showed the crowd at a Dodgers game. They did not get the permission of everyone shown on camera.
It may have been.Was it about the Larry David thing? That would be a fair use.
This is not my area of the law but it’s way more restrictive than people understand.
C’mon.they violated league rules about videotaping. In both cases they might be technicalities but optics matter.if you cannot bring yourself to admit this is a massive unforced error at least.It's not the "same thing". At all.
I'm drawing a major distinction between the last time being a football staff and this being a production crew that included independent contractors. The last time was an attempt to create a competitive advantage. This wasn't.C’mon.they violated league rules about videotaping. In both cases they might be technicalities but optics matter.if you cannot bring yourself to admit this is a massive unforced error at least.
Why would the Patriots release at the two minute warning necessarily be coordinated with the league?The Patriots statement came at about the two-minute warning. A release no doubt coordinated with the league. What the league does about it tomorrow is anyone's guess
They are. Remember a dude was famously exonerated for a crime because he happened to be at the Dodgers game Curb was filming.Are waivers not on tickets or posted in stadiums? I haven’t bought one in forever, but I’m pretty sure it’s part of the “contract” the fan agrees to as part of the purchase.
Heard this before.Sadly, this thread reads like a shelter dog that's been beat too much. This will result in a fine and maybe some league wide memos reminding about filming guidelines and proper credential rights and clearances. Step off the ledge, people.
Going back to this--maybe the doc was fair use. Was the Larry David Show fair use?Was it about the Larry David thing? That would be a fair use.
This is not my area of the law but it’s way more restrictive than people understand.
I think that’s wishful thinking. I’ll be shocked if this isn’t the top story in sports by 6pm tomorrow night, complete with the usual bull shit narratives built entirely on media speculation.Sadly, this thread reads like a shelter dog that's been beat too much. This will result in a fine and maybe some league wide memos reminding about filming guidelines and proper credential rights and clearances. Step off the ledge, people.