2020 Bucs: TB12 in TB20 - How Far Do They Go?

Assuming the 2020 season is actually played, how far do you think the TB12 led Bucs will go?

  • Win SB

  • Play in SB

  • Make it to the NFCCG

  • Make playoffs

  • Contend but no playoffs (~6-8 wins)

  • Blow chunks (<6 wins)


Results are only viewable after voting.

gryoung

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I think that is WILDLY optimistic. I don't think the Pats win 6 games this year, and frankly, I don't think they want to, which is one of the reasons they moved on from Brady.

Here is what I see next year:

At Buffalo: Loss
At Houston: Loss
At KC: Loss
At Chargers: Win/Loss
At Rams: Loss
At Miami: Loss (because it always is)
At Jets: Win
At Seattle: Loss

Vs. Buffalo: Loss
Vs. Miami: Win
Vs. Jets: Win
Vs. Denver: Win/Loss
Vs. Raiders: Win/Loss
Vs. Arizona: Win
Vs. San Fran: Loss
Vs. Ravens: Loss

I see literally only 4 games you can put in the win column immediately (and I think we now underestimating Miami and the Jets, who both had better records than the Pats in the 2nd half of last year), and 3 games that are toss ups.

I think they lose the remaining schedule by an average of 10 points per game.

When you throw in the travel that is going to take place with that schedule, its a fucking minefield. Dumping Brady now was the NFL equivalent of tanking, and it's the only reason I'm not upset. I don't think they would have gone 9-7 next year with that schedule even with Brady, because they couldn't give him any weapons. Stidham? It's going to be ugly.
I don’t think BB is the kind of coach who would even consider “tanking” on a season.
 

DJnVa

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No way, which is why it is so ballsy. He seems to be thinking it is possible he will play even beyond the age of 45. He is either delusional or amazing.
I don't think it's ballsy to tell TB they can't do something that they would never do.

I do think it's cool that it's out there because of what it says about his mindset.
 

RoDaddy

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I got a couple of delusional scenarios:

1. Two year deal means we get him back for his age 45 season, after a mini-rebuild

2. The Bucs suck this year and Pats play better than expected and he's traded back to NE mid-season for a playoff run. There's a no trade in his contract but I'm guessing that means the Bucs can't trade him without his permission
 

Deathofthebambino

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I don’t think BB is the kind of coach who would even consider “tanking” on a season.
I don't know if tanking is the right word. Resetting maybe? He's obviously going to try to win, but he's also clearly doing what he can to shed payroll to allow maximum flexibility for 2021. I think he realized that this team with Brady wasn't going very far next season with that schedule, and as a result, now was the time to reset everything. Why create a 3-4 year reset when you can basically do it all at once by letting Brady walk? It makes too much sense.

If they had a cupcake schedule next year, I think Brady is still here. They could have given him 3/75million, guaranteed 50mil, and spread the cap hits out as 29.5, 29.5 and 4.5 and then voided year 3 with only 4.5 in dead money. I think Brady would have taken that in a cocaine heartbeat if they offered it to him a month ago. It's basically what Drew Brees is getting.
 

RedOctober3829

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He put the tag and trade provisions in because he never wants the team to have control over his future ever again. He wants to have the freedom to move on if he wants to play beyond the 2 years. Also with the escalating cap, he can negotiate another contract at the same percentage of cap but will mean more money. This is exactly what LeBron James did with his 1+1 deals in Miami and Cleveland before deciding to go long term in LA.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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He put the tag and trade provisions in because he never wants the team to have control over his future ever again. He wants to have the freedom to move on if he wants to play beyond the 2 years. Also with the escalating cap, he can negotiate another contract at the same percentage of cap but will mean more money. This is exactly what LeBron James did with his 1+1 deals in Miami and Cleveland before deciding to go long term in LA.
This. Plus the Bucs probably had no problem giving him the protection. Hell, they're just happy to have him. Get your two years, hopefully a title and then try to resign him if you still want him. If he sucks, you've only got him on the books for 2 years.
 

Harry Hooper

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If they had a cupcake schedule next year, I think Brady is still here. They could have given him 3/75million, guaranteed 50mil, and spread the cap hits out as 29.5, 29.5 and 4.5 and then voided year 3 with only 4.5 in dead money. I think Brady would have taken that in a cocaine heartbeat if they offered it to him a month ago. It's basically what Drew Brees is getting.
He might have signed it eventually, but there's no way he would pass up listening to FA offers having come so far in the process.
 

Deathofthebambino

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He might have signed it eventually, but there's no way he would pass up listening to FA offers having come so far in the process.
He couldn't listen to free agent offers and sign that offer, because once FA opened, that 13.5 million couldn't have been spread out, it would have all been on the cap in year one, so now the cap hit in year one would have jumped to 38.5million, which the Pats couldn't do and never would. It would have been a take it or leave it scenario....
 

DJnVa

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I got a couple of delusional scenarios:

1. Two year deal means we get him back for his age 45 season, after a mini-rebuild

2. The Bucs suck this year and Pats play better than expected and he's traded back to NE mid-season for a playoff run. There's a no trade in his contract but I'm guessing that means the Bucs can't trade him without his permission
If Pats are playing well then we likely aren't going to want him back if he's not producing with the weapons we keep hearing he has down there.
 

BigJimEd

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He couldn't listen to free agent offers and sign that offer, because once FA opened, that 13.5 million couldn't have been spread out, it would have all been on the cap in year one, so now the cap hit in year one would have jumped to 38.5million, which the Pats couldn't do and never would. It would have been a take it or leave it scenario....
Not entirely true. Yes the 13.5M hits instead of 6.75 but that just means they lower the first year salary to offset it.

Anyway there was very little chance of him going back. And that "going away" bonus plus AB's hit are main reasons they do not have much room on the cap.
 

dirtynine

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Looks kind of like a service kitchen - big utility range and stacks of bowls/plates, “be respectful” sign on the door etc. If that’s his house he should be hosting Top Chef episodes.
 

Oppo

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Start 2-0 with the media train going all out.
Lose the next 4 with Brady starting to complain about the OL and WRs running the wrong routes, Evans complains about not getting the rock enough.
Finish 5-11, Brady retires.
 

snowmanny

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Start 2-0 with the media train going all out.
Lose the next 4 with Brady starting to complain about the OL and WRs running the wrong routes, Evans complains about not getting the rock enough.
Finish 5-11, Brady retires.
Brady is complaining where exactly?
 

Salem's Lot

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Start 2-0 with the media train going all out.
Lose the next 4 with Brady starting to complain about the OL and WRs running the wrong routes, Evans complains about not getting the rock enough.
Finish 5-11, Brady retires.
There is a better chance of no football season in 2020 than this happening.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I am highly skeptical that this won't end very very badly for Brady. The difference maker has always been receivers ability to run precise routes so that Brady can anticipate and throw to the spot he expects them to be. When a quarterback throws 30 picks it's obviously mostly on him, but it gives me a lot of concern that the receivers were a contributing factor to Winston's picks. The margin for error in today's league is really small on contested balls. Receivers rounding off routes, not driving back to the ball etc result in picks as much as the quarterback not being precise. A new offense and not having the offseason reps with his receivers isn't going to help matters. I'm sure Brady will put in the work, but if he doesn't have someone like Edelman that has his 100% trust it's going to be a tough road and he'll be watching the the playoffs from home. I think that is why the situation with AB is huge. He was the perfect receiver for Brady (at least from an on the field perspective.) If it somehow works out with AB, I can see playoffs, otherwise I'd be less than confident.
Brady is going to LOVE Godwin. Dude runs himself open all game.
 

snowmanny

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I remember early in 2014 that there reports that Brady was very unhappy with the offense and then he got up at a press conference and said he had great faith in the offense. But I heard from many reliable sources that it was completely obvious that he was lying he doesn’t mean that at all etc etc. And then he burned the league down.

So I’ll believe Brady is complaining when I see it with my own two eyes.
 

BusRaker

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If they were in the NFC East they would certainly be favorites. But behind the Saints I don't think they muster a wild card. Maybe now that there's a third though

[edit] Had to check:
Brady's move to Tampa Bay boosted the Buccaneers' Super Bowl odds from 50/1 to 16/1.
 

johnmd20

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If they were in the NFC East they would certainly be favorites. But behind the Saints I don't think they muster a wild card. Maybe now that there's a third though

[edit] Had to check:
Brady's move to Tampa Bay boosted the Buccaneers' Super Bowl odds from 50/1 to 16/1.
They are gonna muster a wild card with that TB team, at least.
 

Oppo

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tims4wins

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“Laser focus!” By the way, if anyone here - anyone anywhere - considers any part of that video ”complaining” about his receivers, as opposed to heat of battle leadership, then I really think people are going the extra mile to find things to criticize.
 

rsmith7

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Jul 18, 2005
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Just clicking around saw this really interesting article form 2018: Run & Shoot in Patriots O.
Tampa's QB coach is Clyde Christensen whose roots are in R & S back from his South Carolina, Holy Cross days.
Might be a nice pairing.
Christensen was Manning's OC/QB coach fro a good part of Manning's time with the Colts.
 

DJnVa

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Super Nomario

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Just clicking around saw this really interesting article form 2018: Run & Shoot in Patriots O.
Tampa's QB coach is Clyde Christensen whose roots are in R & S back from his South Carolina, Holy Cross days.
Might be a nice pairing.
Christensen was Manning's OC/QB coach fro a good part of Manning's time with the Colts.
Manning's longtime OC Tom Moore is in TB as an offensive consultant, too. I'd be surprised if Brady didn't consult heavily with Peyton about the offense before talking to the Bucs.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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This won't be a popular opinion here, but screw it, I felt it at the time and now in looking back I continue to feel it about last year.

I thought some of Brady's post-game dour press conferences last year were a bit over the top and unhelpful. Especially after wins. I understand that he was only being realistic at the time but it did not seem like the leadership that we are accustomed to seeing from Brady. Part of what has made this team great is Brady's unflinching optimistic attitude and his demand for the players around him to be better and to convey the message that anything is possible. I do think he also did plenty of that last year. But I thought the team also started to reflect some of his more somber this ain't working personality as the year went on. The pining for AB also was not a good look for a team that was trying to feature some younger receivers. Maybe a chicken and the egg thing. Maybe Brady was also pissed off about what now looks like was a slightly deteriorating relationship with the team regarding his contract and future.

And the bottom line is that if the vaunted defense could have made a stop against Miami maybe the season is entirely different. Still, I really didn't like it much at the time and I like it even less now.
 
Feb 8, 2017
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This won't be a popular opinion here, but screw it, I felt it at the time and now in looking back I continue to feel it about last year.

I thought some of Brady's post-game dour press conferences last year were a bit over the top and unhelpful. Especially after wins. I understand that he was only being realistic at the time but it did not seem like the leadership that we are accustomed to seeing from Brady. Part of what has made this team great is Brady's unflinching optimistic attitude and his demand for the players around him to be better and to convey the message that anything is possible. I do think he also did plenty of that last year. But I thought the team also started to reflect some of his more somber this ain't working personality as the year went on. The pining for AB also was not a good look for a team that was trying to feature some younger receivers. Maybe a chicken and the egg thing. Maybe Brady was also pissed off about what now looks like was a slightly deteriorating relationship with the team regarding his contract and future.

And the bottom line is that if the vaunted defense could have made a stop against Miami maybe the season is entirely different. Still, I really didn't like it much at the time and I like it even less now.
Agree wholeheartedly. Particularly hurtful was the negativity towards the younger receivers (like Harry and Meyers) and which I felt was detrimental to the goals of the team. Hearing the greatest QB/human of all time say generic things like “they have to put the work in” can’t be good for the confidence (If he told me I suck at my job, I’d be like, yeah, I totally suck at my job). And frankly he wasn’t perfect either last year.

By way of contrast, take for example the 2013 (?) season, when he was working with less than stellar talents like Kenbrell Thompkins and Dobson. I remember an upbeat attitude (“were 6-2, were in a good spot, etc”), even though realistically they weren’t a Super Bowl team that year. Sharply contrasts with the vibes he sent out last year.
 

BigSoxFan

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Agree wholeheartedly. Particularly hurtful was the negativity towards the younger receivers (like Harry and Meyers) and which I felt was detrimental to the goals of the team. Hearing the greatest QB/human of all time say generic things like “they have to put the work in” can’t be good for the confidence (If he told me I suck at my job, I’d be like, yeah, I totally suck at my job). And frankly he wasn’t perfect either last year.

By way of contrast, take for example the 2013 (?) season, when he was working with less than stellar talents like Kenbrell Thompkins and Dobson. I remember an upbeat attitude (“were 6-2, were in a good spot, etc”), even though realistically they weren’t a Super Bowl team that year. Sharply contrasts with the vibes he sent out last year.
Brady before AB release was fired up. He was as “pumped and jacked” as you’ll ever see him when we got AB. Brady after AB was kind of surly. Cutting him was obviously the right move but you get the feeling Brady almost emotionally shut off after that point. I would bet dollars to donuts he vehemently opposed the move.
 

BaseballJones

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Brady before AB release was fired up. He was as “pumped and jacked” as you’ll ever see him when we got AB. Brady after AB was kind of surly. Cutting him was obviously the right move but you get the feeling Brady almost emotionally shut off after that point. I would bet dollars to donuts he vehemently opposed the move.
He may have been. I really don't know why he's so invested in AB. Great talent, sure. But surely Brady saw the unbelievable things AB was doing and had to know that that just....couldn't work. Especially when the NFL put the clamps on him, what was Kraft really supposed to do there? I'd like to think that Brady was mature enough to understand the situation. If what you describe was what happened, that's actually a pretty immature response on his part.
 

cornwalls@6

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Obligatory caveat: I’ll love him forever for the amazing 20 years, blah, blah, blah. But I have to say, his public demeanor for about the last 7 months has been pretty insufferable. The pouting after so many games, even wins, last year. The dismissal of any obligation to do extra work with the young, inexperienced receivers last year. The continued, very public, pining for a misogynistic, sociopathic scum bag like AB. The cutesy, teasing social media posts about his future. The Goop-like drivel social media post announcing the next step in his football/life journey, on the same day a massive, global health and economic crisis was ramping up to another level. And finally, his revelation today that he is all in on OTAs again, and the inevitable conclusion that his skipping them here for the last couple of years, supposedly to spend more time with his family, was complete bullshit, and just him pouting about his contract, or whatever else. Again, he is one of my top 2-3 favorite athletes of time, but he has been more than a little diva-ish in recent months.
 

lexrageorge

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I can understand Brady being upset about the team releasing Antonio Brown. I agree with the team's decision; why posters here and the Wickersham article downplay the impact of the intimidating text messages is beyond me sometimes. Still, Brady is in the heat of things, and I can see why he may have thought the incident wasn't worth cutting Brown over.

But it's on him to get over it. The missing OTA's are definitely a bad look given his suddenly renewed commitment to attend them with Tampa. And he didn't need to call out his young receivers openly. I'm sure that behavior was taken into account by Belichick and Kraft when they were mulling how to approach the contract discussions.