2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

BaseballJones

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A team just overpaid for Amendola.
A coach (Patricia) who has a past relationship with Amendola just overpaid for him yes. But:

1. Amendola is a proven playoff stud,
2. Amendola's best seasons are far better than anything those other guys have produced.

Amendola's best seasons:
2010: 85 rec, 689 yds, 3 td
2015: 65 rec, 648 yds, 3 td
2017: 61 rec, 659 yds, 2 td

Patterson's best seasons:
2013: 45 rec, 469 yds, 4 td
2016: 52 rec, 453 yds, 2 td

Hogan's best seasons:
2016: 38 rec, 680 yds, 4 td
2018: 35 rec, 532 yds, 3 td

Dorsett's best seasons:
2016: 33 rec, 528 yds, 2 td
2018: 32 rec, 290 yds, 3 td

So Amendola has been better than any of those other three guys. But you may be right. Maybe someone will pony up $4 million for Patterson, Hogan, or Dorsett. I'd bet not, but I could be wrong.
 

RedOctober3829

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Via Ian Rapoport on NFL Network “ “Here’s an interesting thing that went down in the Antonio Brown chase, The Patriots offered the Steelers a 2nd round pick and a 4th round pick for Antonio Brown but the Steelers wanted no part in doing a trade with them” Wow
 

Dr. Gonzo

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Looks like he made that up


Lmao I just tricked a shit ton of Patriots fans @SportsTalkBarry take a look at this man. Patriots fans believe anything man
 

DJnVa

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A coach (Patricia) who has a past relationship with Amendola just overpaid for him yes. But:

1. Amendola is a proven playoff stud,
2. Amendola's best seasons are far better than anything those other guys have produced.
Well, like I said, it's a good thing the Lions brought in a playoff stud. :)
 

DJnVa

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Looks like he made that up


Lmao I just tricked a shit ton of Patriots fans @SportsTalkBarry take a look at this man. Patriots fans believe anything man
By "shit ton" does he mean a portion of the approximately 25 people that replied? And the first Pats fan literally said "I don't believe that"
 

dcmissle

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By "shit ton" does he mean a portion of the approximately 25 people that replied? And the first Pats fan literally said "I don't believe that"
I’d be more interested in his description of his mama’s basement.
 

DJnVa

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Dan Graziano notes relating to Pats:

--expects Flowers to see about $18M/year
--thinks Humphries, Beasley, and Crowder may get $9M plus
 

Ed Hillel

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Dan Graziano notes relating to Pats:

--expects Flowers to see about $18M/year
--thinks Humphries, Beasley, and Crowder may get $9M plus
Humphies at 8-9 million isn’t all that dissimilar to the contract BB offered Amendola, so if Flowers goes elsewhere or Gronk retires, this kind of offer from BB wouldn’t surprise me. Depends what they think of Berrios and other draft options maybe.
 

BigSoxFan

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Dan Graziano notes relating to Pats:

--expects Flowers to see about $18M/year
--thinks Humphries, Beasley, and Crowder may get $9M plus
If 29 year-old Cole Beasley gets $9M/year, I’ll eat a log of Rocco’s shite.

No thanks on Flowers at that number.
 

BigSoxFan

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Damn.

Maybe Bill can capitalize on what playing for the NEP does for your next contract.

Edit: seeing 37MM is guaranteed
Seriously. Trent deserves credit but coming to the Pats on a 1 year deal should be so desirable for players looking to cash in.
 

BigSoxFan

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So Pats have now had their LT past 2 seasons become highest paid OT in history. Dante really is amazing.
 

Ed Hillel

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Well despite Bill always zigging while everyone else is zagging, Marcus Cannon will not need to try on his interview suit any time soon.
Still wouldn’t be shocked at a Cannon trade. They still have depth at the position and can draft another. His value might be a second rounder at this point, and he has trouble staying on the field and is aging.
 

Super Nomario

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Still wouldn’t be shocked at a Cannon trade. They still have depth at the position and can draft another. His value might be a second rounder at this point, and he has trouble staying on the field and is aging.
How do they have tackle depth? Right now it is Cannon, Wynn (zero NFL games played), Cole Croston, Dan Skipper, and Kyler Matthews.
 

moondog80

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Brown helped his value here to be sure, but it's not like he was some practice squad player -- he was expected to be at least a solid starter form day one. I never understood how one year of him at a small salary was available for a 3rd/5th pick swap.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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You have to view the Amendola contract in context -- it's a one year deal. Teams pay a premium for one-year deals.

His agent probably shopped it as Amendola just trying to get close to what he was going to make with Miami if not cut, and the Lions used incentives to get close.

I'm not sure the deal will be all that relevant for the market for the younger free agents who are looking for multi-year deals and who offer amortized cap relief to teams.
 

Ed Hillel

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How do they have tackle depth? Right now it is Cannon, Wynn (zero NFL games played), Cole Croston, Dan Skipper, and Kyler Matthews.
I thought Waddle was still under contract, but he’s a FA. He could probably come back on the cheap, but maybe not if Brown is setting the market...

Either way, I always worry approximately 0% when Scar is here.
 

Super Nomario

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You have to view the Amendola contract in context -- it's a one year deal. Teams pay a premium for one-year deals.
Do they? I would think a one-year deal advantages the player more than the team in a sport with non-guaranteed contracts.

I thought Waddle was still under contract, but he’s a FA. He could probably come back on the cheap, but maybe not if Brown is setting the market...
That's still not depth. You trade Cannon and start Waddle and now your backups are the JAGs I mentioned previously.

Either way, I always worry approximately 0% when Scar is here.
I'm not really interested in testing the limits of the Scar effect, especially in a year where LT is going to be at least a little bit of a question mark. He's worked wonders but they've also given him talent to work with for the most part.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Do they? I would think a one-year deal advantages the player more than the team in a sport with non-guaranteed contracts.
I guess it's context dependent. But, yeah, I would think a team would be much more interested in a prove it one-year deal on a 34 year old receiver. The incentives (I'm assuming) are NLTBE so you defer over a million of the comp to next year and then only if he produces. But, yeah, I take your point that a team would be more interested in a multi-year deal for younger players it can amortize. My point is that I don't think Amendola would have sniffed a contract near $4-5.5 million for multiple years so it's hard to say that it's any kind of comp for, say, Humphries.
 

Jimbodandy

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That's still not depth. You trade Cannon and start Waddle and now your backups are the JAGs I mentioned previously.

I'm not really interested in testing the limits of the Scar effect, especially in a year where LT is going to be at least a little bit of a question mark. He's worked wonders but they've also given him talent to work with for the most part.
This.

I think that Waddle is depth, if he's even back. Maybe zenmaster Scar can make a starter out of him, but he's a dropoff from Cannon/Brown either way.

Wynn is a question mark. Reasons abound for optimism there, but he's unproven.

I feel solid arguing that one significant offseason priority should be limiting the risks among the people whose job is keeping our elderly QB alive.

Edit: point taken about Bill being completely impossible to predict
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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This.

I think that Waddle is depth, if he's even back. Maybe zenmaster Scar can make a starter out of him, but he's a dropoff from Cannon/Brown either way.

Wynn is a question mark. Reasons abound for optimism there, but he's unproven.

I feel solid arguing that one significant offseason priority should be limiting the risks among the people whose job is keeping our elderly QB alive.

Edit: point taken about Bill being completely impossible to predict
Wouldn't be at all shocking for NE to draft another OT in this year's draft.
 

InstaFace

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Marcus Cannon cap hits, just for reference:

2019: $7.46 (2.8 dead)
2020: $7.75 (1.4 dead)
2021: $6.26 (0 dead)

That's for his age 31-33 seasons. His dead cap went from $8.25 last season to $2.8 for this upcoming one, so he's certainly a restructure or cut candidate unless Bill likes him at those numbers.
 

bakahump

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Wouldn't be at all shocking for NE to draft another OT in this year's draft.
I was thinking the exact same thing.

OT has become the 2nd (3rd? after a Stud Pass rusher) most desirable player to have. Look at the Contracts.
They also seem a "bit" undervalued from a Draft Standpoint. You can still get a really Good Tackle mid to late in the 1st, while a QB and Pass Rusher are scooped up in the top 5.

It wouldnt surprise me at all to see BB start drafting OTs more often just to turn around and trade/let him walk a few years later. You essentially "Trent Brown" every couple years (Cheap good production, trade him, get a high draft pick as a return or as compensation. Rinse repeat.)
 

Super Nomario

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Wouldn't be at all shocking for NE to draft another OT in this year's draft.
Not at all, even in the first or second. Not expecting it either, but it's clearly a position they value.

Marcus Cannon cap hits, just for reference:

2019: $7.46 (2.8 dead)
2020: $7.75 (1.4 dead)
2021: $6.26 (0 dead)

That's for his age 31-33 seasons. His dead cap went from $8.25 last season to $2.8 for this upcoming one, so he's certainly a restructure or cut candidate unless Bill likes him at those numbers.
I don't know why he wouldn't like him at those numbers. Look at what the market is doing right now. Trent Brown just signed for double this AAV. Cannon is a good player. And while RT are historically underpaid, it's starting to come around. Cannon's AAV ranks 11th among RT (and of course, a bunch of the guys below are on rookie deals). Now if he starts showing signs of slipping next year, it's a different story.
 

rodderick

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Not at all, even in the first or second. Not expecting it either, but it's clearly a position they value.


I don't know why he wouldn't like him at those numbers. Look at what the market is doing right now. Trent Brown just signed for double this AAV. Cannon is a good player. And while RT are historically underpaid, it's starting to come around. Cannon's AAV ranks 11th among RT (and of course, a bunch of the guys below are on rookie deals). Now if he starts showing signs of slipping next year, it's a different story.
Yeah, Cannon's deal is still pretty good, I don't see him being shopped or cut unless they want to make space for a big acquisition, which is very un-Patriot like.
 
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Absolutely right. Bennett is a nice starting point in advance of Flowers leaving, but he's certainly not a long term answer. He'll be good to have but he's just step one, IMO. Miles to go before we sleep...but happy to have BB in charge of the all nighter.
 

Bosox1528

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Expected Flowers to leave and not too upset about it. The Bennett trade was fantastic, and he should replace Flowers seamlessly. Pretty upset about losing Brown though. Really hoped we could've kept him. That's a huge loss
 

DJnVa

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Expected Flowers to leave and not too upset about it. The Bennett trade was fantastic, and he should replace Flowers seamlessly. Pretty upset about losing Brown though. Really hoped we could've kept him. That's a huge loss
But they were in pretty much the same boat---about to get HUGE deals.
 

Bosox1528

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But they were in pretty much the same boat---about to get HUGE deals.
I would've paid Brown that though. He was one of the best offensive tackles in the league last year and top tackles are worth their (very high in Brown's case) weight in gold. Saw some study once showing OT's along with WR's, are the most important non QB positions in the NFL
 
Apr 7, 2006
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Trent Brown was NEVER going to be re-signed unless he took a huge discount. Very good and diligent THIS year, but has a history of conditioning issues and was quoted as saying he's not that into studying film. Patriots played that situation just right, and it paid off. God bless him, thanks for the super bowl and for the comp pick.
 

ZMart100

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Does anyone have a sense of what bringing back Malcom Brown would cost? Something like 3 years for 12?
 

dcmissle

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Today is Black Friday shopping ... at Newman Marcus. You do not want to be in on this
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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So, given the Patriots' cap situation, you would think that the mission right now is finding guys who are on expiring deals and who can be traded for picks.

The ideal situation would be a guy who got significant money in bonus and so comes with a slightly lower cap charge. Who is out there like that? Marvin Jones might be attractive at 6.5 million as an over-the-top threat who could take the lid off and is reasonably affordable as compared to what a guy like Tate might cost. And there are several to choose from on the Panthers.

Another option is to see if you can duplicate something like the Cooks deal. Any former first rounders out there who make sense from a trade perspective where you get the last year on the cheap and the fifth year of control?
 

Jimbodandy

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It helps for sure. However, with Clayborn at best here for another year plus the unknown with Rivers/Davis/Kamalu all you have is Bennett/Wise/Clayborn as known commodities. They could stand to bring in another DE in FA plus draft 1-2 guys.
If Bill has shown anything over the years, it's that guys like Clayborn, Sheard, et al. are easy enough to find. DL is a place where he values quantity.

Bennett for Flowers is the big move. There will be others of lesser significance.
 

RedOctober3829

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So, given the Patriots' cap situation, you would think that the mission right now is finding guys who are on expiring deals and who can be traded for picks.

The ideal situation would be a guy who got significant money in bonus and so comes with a slightly lower cap charge. Who is out there like that? Marvin Jones might be attractive at 6.5 million as an over-the-top threat who could take the lid off and is reasonably affordable as compared to what a guy like Tate might cost. And there are several to choose from on the Panthers.

Another option is to see if you can duplicate something like the Cooks deal. Any former first rounders out there who make sense from a trade perspective where you get the last year on the cheap and the fifth year of control?
Players who are FA after 2019 that could be had in the trade market.

WR
AJ Green
Travis Benjamin
Seth Roberts
Sterling Shepard
Nelson Agholor

DL
Michael Brockers
A'Shawn Robinson
Jerry Hughes
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Players who are FA after 2019 that could be had in the trade market.
WR
AJ Green
Travis Benjamin
Seth Roberts
Sterling Shepard
Nelson Agholor
It would take a lot to get Green and he's expensive as is Agholor. Seth Roberts is worth kicking the tires on.

Even though he has two years, I wonder whether the Lions have any interest in trading Marvin Jones. He's never really gelled too much with Stafford. I guess with Tate gone they probably hold on to him. But I think he'd be a nice fit.
 

SoxinSeattle

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Brown helped his value here to be sure, but it's not like he was some practice squad player -- he was expected to be at least a solid starter form day one. I never understood how one year of him at a small salary was available for a 3rd/5th pick swap.
I'll always believe the low cost was a thank you for JG.
 

Super Nomario

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It would take a lot to get Green and he's expensive as is Agholor. Seth Roberts is worth kicking the tires on.

Even though he has two years, I wonder whether the Lions have any interest in trading Marvin Jones. He's never really gelled too much with Stafford. I guess with Tate gone they probably hold on to him. But I think he'd be a nice fit.
Agholor might get cut in the next couple days. Still might be too pricey.

Detroit looks like they're trying to win now (both Quinn and Patricia on the hot seat) so I don't see them taking away Jones.