2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
UFA's
WR
Patterson
Hogan
Dorsett

OL
Brown
Waddle
John
Schwenke

DL/DE
Flowers
Shelton
Brown
Parry
Simon

LB
McClellan
Humber

CB
JMac
Rowe

ST
Ghost
R. Allen

RFA
Gordon
J. Jones

ERFA
C. Hollister
Eldrenkamp

Candidates for Cut/Restructure/Retirement
Gronkowski
DMac
Hightower
D. Allen

Depth Chart as it stands(they list Melifonwu as a CB and Dawson at safety)
QB-Brady, Hoyer
RB/FB-Michel, White, Burkhead, Develin
T-Cannon, Wynn
G-Thuney, Mason, Karras, Ferentz
C-Andrews
TE-Gronkowski, D. Allen, Hollister, Anderson, Izzo
WR-Edelman, Berrios, Darren Andrews, McCarron

DE-Clayborn, Davis, Wise, Rivers
DT-Butler, Guy, Kamalu
LB-Hightower, Van Noy, Roberts, Bentley, Sam
CB-Gilmore, Jackson, Melifonwu, Crossen
S-Chung, DMac, Harmon, Dawson
ST-Slater, Ebner, King

Needs
--WR
--Does Gronk retire? If so, who is the TE?
--Re-sign Flowers
--QB of the future?
--Does DMac retire? If so, safety is a need.
--Re-sign Ghost and Allen
--Decide what Isaiah Wynn is and fortify the OL based on if he's a G or a T
--CB depth behind Gilmore and JC Jackson
--Coverage LB
--A run stuffing DT to replace Shelton and Brown
 
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DeadlySplitter

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If the SB is anything to go on, Tom will continue to need a really clean pocket to be effective (this is true of any QB, but especially Tom). To this end I hope Wynn is able to step in after the ACL, because we're probably not paying Trent Brown (thanks for the one year).

Rowe I wanted to succeed... but let's face it, the secondary was better without him.

I'd bring Dorsett back, should not be cost-prohibitive.

Dwayne Allen is a blocking TE. We were upset he couldn't catch, but Bill (correctly) values him for the running game. He's not leaving.
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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If the SB is anything to go on, Tom will continue to need a really clean pocket to be effective (this is true of any QB, but especially Tom). To this end I hope Wynn is able to step in after the ACL, because we're probably not paying Trent Brown (thanks for the one year).
Your overall point stands, but Wynn had an Achilles - he should be good to go fully by training camp and really shouldn't have any long-term effects
 

DeadlySplitter

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Sorry, Achilles. that's good to hear DRS.

as far as retiring, a lot of emotions in the immediate aftermath, we'll see. Gronk is still the most likely to retire out of anyone.
 

Ale Xander

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Please don't resign Hogan, please don't re-sign Hogan . . .

I'm expecting they pick up Riley Ridley in the 2nd round


----

Hoping they trade up for D White or DK Metcalf to shore up needs at LB or WR. Unless Dmac retires, in which case, they're probably going to stand Pat and get Thompson the Safety from Bama.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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Would like to see Patterson and Dorsett back. I’m not assuming any contribution from Gordon and the position really needs more talent/youth.

Interior DL needs to be restocked. Is this a position that is easily filled by the draft and have a player come in and play well in their first year?

Hoping for Flowers to be back but I assume he’s gone with the amount of money a team can throw at him.
 

Boston Brawler

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Does anyone think they’ll move on from Ghost? I don’t, but it wouldn’t shock me. There isn’t anyone better on the market, and I’m not sure about the draft.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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#1 priority is resigning Brown. He'll get $$ thrown at him but hopefully something can be worked out.

Having Wynn back as a back up would be the ideal situation.
 

SeoulSoxFan

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...having said that, 12 picks with 6 in the first 3 rounds mean we may see a ton of roster changes next season.
 

Mystic Merlin

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They need to extend Tom - which will happen - to push his cap number down.

Flowers is obviously a really important guy, but I think they let him test the market like they did with DMC and Hightower.

WR and TE could look very different next year.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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I'm anticipating that Bentley is an important piece at LB next year. He looked way better than Robert's ever has.
They supposedly love the guy, so I suspect you are right. Ghost unlikely to be gone, unless he prices himself out of the market...not sure they can let Flowers test the market, as I suspect he is gone if he does. Wonder if anyone else is a surprise retire? Hightower?
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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...having said that, 12 picks with 6 in the first 3 rounds mean we may see a ton of roster changes next season.
I'm really interested to see how this plays out. At most positions (secondary and OL as exceptions) it seems like Belichick likes to red shirt rookies especially at LB and DL. I wonder if we see the Patriots active trading a couple of those picks before the draft. I'm thinking similar to the Trent Brown, Cooks (from NO), McCourty and Patterson acquisitions where they can step in a lot faster than a rookie. I know we've been talking for years about the Brady window closing, but we're definitely near the end.

Any notable WRs, DL and LBs on the 3rd year of their rookie deals on teams looking at a longer rebuild?

Are the Giants smart enough to realize they need to rebuild and could they trade Sterling Shepard or Alex Ogletree or Olivier Vernon for a late 2nd or 3rd rounder? Or maybe Todd Davis from the Broncos.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Flowers is obviously a really important guy, but I think they let him test the market like they did with DMC and Hightower.
Yup. They clearly underwent a big shift in their thinking vis-a-vis the tag because they used it very liberally in the 2001-2012 period but since then they've only used it once and that was on Ghost, which hardly really counts given the low numbers involved.

I expect we'll have a bunch of discussion in this forum about how the Pats need to use the tag on Flowers or Brown over the next couple weeks but the track record is pretty strong on this by now. They're going to let those guys hit the market. But that doesn't mean they won't end up signing here anyway in the end.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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If Carolina decides to truly punt the 2019 season, seems like McCaffrey would be a perfect addition for the team...
 

Hendoo

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Tyrell Williams might be a decent free agent pickup: an undrafted guy that worked hard and stepped it up big time when Keenan Allen tore his ACL. He dropped back to earth when Keenan returned but he has skills. He also fits the tradition of signing players that had recent success against us as he was the only one able to make a dent in that chargers game.

I can totally imagine Cole Beasley as a Patriot too.
 
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Jimbodandy

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I'm anticipating that Bentley is an important piece at LB next year. He looked way better than Robert's ever has.
I like Bentley too. He is far quicker and attacks the play well. Roberts accelerates like an armored truck, but he hits like one as well. There's value for that in limited snaps. They desperately need LB speed though.
 
Definitely a small sample size of 25 targets/16 receptions this year with the Browns, but Breshad Perriman could be worth a look as a deeper threat WR at a low cost with Josh Gordon gone. He averaged 21.3 yards per reception and had some impressive TD catches. FO had him at 97 DYAR, 36.6% DVOA. He's an unrestricted free agent and is only 25 years old after being a 1st round pick in 2015.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Gronk's decision on his future seems pretty high leverage. The ideal situation would be for Gronk to agree to come back in a slightly reduced and more blocking heavy role, shaving 2-3M off his currently projected 9M salary and nearly 12M cap number for 2019. We then utilize a high pick on a TE in what seems to be an unusually good draft for that position, grooming Gronk's successor. And all this allows us to cut Allen.

If Gronk retires, things quickly become pretty dire in terms of TB12's receiving options. I wouldn't be against doubling up at the TE position in the draft, a la 2010.
 

Beomoose

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Does anyone think they’ll move on from Ghost? I don’t, but it wouldn’t shock me. There isn’t anyone better on the market, and I’m not sure about the draft.
I'm kinda expecting Ghost to be gone because someone will go higher $, misses notwithstanding he's still going to get interest. LSU's kicker looks real good, I could see Bill drafting him 4th/5th considering how many picks he has in the first 3 rounds for other needs.
 

pappymojo

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Edelman is going to be 33 and will be on the last year of his contract next year.
 

pappymojo

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Editing the original post to include the age of the player for 2019

UFA's
WR
Patterson (28)
Hogan (31)
Dorsett (27)

OL
Brown (26)
Waddle (28)
John (27)
Schwenke (28)

DL/DE
Flowers (26)
Shelton (26)
Brown (26)
Parry (27)
Simon (29)

LB
McClellan (33)
Humber (32)

CB
JMac (32)
Rowe (27)

ST
Ghost (36)
R. Allen (29)

RFA
Gordon (28)
J. Jones (25)

ERFA
C. Hollister (26)
Eldrenkamp (25)

Candidates for Cut/Restructure/Retirement
Gronkowski (30)
DMac (32)
Hightower (29)
D. Allen (29)

Depth Chart as it stands(they list Melifonwu as a CB and Dawson at safety)
QB-Brady (42), Hoyer (34)
RB/FB-Michel (24), White (28), Burkhead (29), Develin (31)
T-Cannon (31), Wynn (23)
G-Thuney (27), Mason (26), Karras (26), Ferentz (30)
C-Andrews (27)
TE-Gronkowski (30), D. Allen (29), Hollister (26), Anderson (27), Izzo (24)
WR-Edelman (33), Berrios (24), Darren Andrews (27), McCarron (26)

DE-Clayborn (31), Davis (25), Wise (25), Rivers (24)
DT-Butler (25), Guy (29), Kamalu (27)
LB-Hightower (29), Van Noy (28), Roberts (25), Bentley (23), Sam (23)
CB-Gilmore (29), Jackson (24), Melifonwu (25), Crossen (23)
S-Chung (32), DMac (32), Harmon (29), Dawson (24)
ST-Slater (34), Ebner (30), King (26)

Needs
--WR
--Does Gronk retire? If so, who is the TE?
--Re-sign Flowers
--QB of the future?
--Does DMac retire? If so, safety is a need.
--Re-sign Ghost and Allen
--Decide what Isaiah Wynn is and fortify the OL based on if he's a G or a T
--CB depth behind Gilmore and JC Jackson
--Coverage LB
--A run stuffing DT to replace Shelton and Brown
 

pappymojo

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Sorry, what's your point? You honestly think they'll walk away from him after a SB MVP?
I was thinking more about how they construct the team for next year. If next year is his last, they are more than likely going to try to find his replacement in this off-season (if they haven't already in Berrios).
 

SMU_Sox

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I liked Berrios quite a bit for his fit for the team. That's hardly unique. Most draftniks introduced him as Future Patriots Berrios. But he is an undersized guy who medically redshirted this year.

I am not sure if this is from here or from a different platform but I believe we were discussing future slot receivers and the draft and Penny Hart's name came up. He's a little like Berrios in that he has positional and ST flexibility, but he's a bit bigger (not by much). I think SuperNomario mentioned him specifically as well. Can't find the post anywhere.

But basically this feels like '06 for the receivers. Getting guys coached up to speed with the off-season is something that can happen but I think they need at least 2 veteran guys who aren't complete retreads.
 

nolasoxfan

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I was thinking more about how they construct the team for next year. If next year is his last, they are more than likely going to try to find his replacement in this off-season (if they haven't already in Berrios).
I’d love to see Hunter Renfrow get a shot at next year's roster. Would likely be a 3rd day or UDFA.
 

BigSoxFan

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I liked Berrios quite a bit for his fit for the team. That's hardly unique. Most draftniks introduced him as Future Patriots Berrios. But he is an undersized guy who medically redshirted this year.

I am not sure if this is from here or from a different platform but I believe we were discussing future slot receivers and the draft and Penny Hart's name came up. He's a little like Berrios in that he has positional and ST flexibility, but he's a bit bigger (not by much). I think SuperNomario mentioned him specifically as well. Can't find the post anywhere.

But basically this feels like '06 for the receivers. Getting guys coached up to speed with the off-season is something that can happen but I think they need at least 2 veteran guys who aren't complete retreads.
Agreed and wondering if there are some potential trade targets on that front. Wouldn’t mind finally getting Golden Tate on this team as a FA but doubt we pony up for him with everything we need.
 

SMU_Sox

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Agreed and wondering if there are some potential trade targets on that front. Wouldn’t mind finally getting Golden Tate on this team as a FA but doubt we pony up for him with everything we need.
Yeah and I am open to Tate too. I know others have mentioned this but just to wrap it up I do think that will see picks for veterans.

I’m starting to turn on the athletic linebacker proposition. Personally I love them but I think Bill would rather just have a really good athletic safety who is slightly bigger. That’s been his personal preference for some years now I think. It’s just hard to find super athletic linebackers in the draft at their slots who aren’t scooped up way before the patriots have a pick. I’m not talking about the day 3 guys who were super athletes but have no football instincts, more the LVE’s of the world.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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S-Chung (32), DMac (32), Harmon (29), Dawson (24)

It’s not sure thing that either or even both of McCourty and Chung will be back for the ‘19 season and the ‘20 season is even murkier. They could both also be approaching the proverbial cliff at anytime now.

Safety is a huge need this offseason. Would anyone feel comfortable going into 2020 with the top safeties being a 30/31 year old Harmon and a rookie? They’ll draft one this year with an eye towards the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if they use a lot of draft capital to go get one that they like early in the draft.
 

Van Everyman

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S-Chung (32), DMac (32), Harmon (29), Dawson (24)

It’s not sure thing that either or even both of McCourty and Chung will be back for the ‘19 season and the ‘20 season is even murkier. They could both also be approaching the proverbial cliff at anytime now.

Safety is a huge need this offseason. Would anyone feel comfortable going into 2020 with the top safeties being a 30/31 year old Harmon and a rookie? They’ll draft one this year with an eye towards the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if they use a lot of draft capital to go get one that they like early in the draft.
I don’t agree with a word of this beyond “They should draft guys” – Belichick just called Chung one of the best players he’s ever coached. Is it possible he’ll let him or any of these fjys go? I suppose. But they have one of the best secondaries in football right now and can afford them. They’re not going to blow this area of strength up because they could theoretically fall off some cliff.
 

Super Nomario

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I like Bentley too. He is far quicker and attacks the play well. Roberts accelerates like an armored truck, but he hits like one as well. There's value for that in limited snaps. They desperately need LB speed though.
The Patriots LB were arguably the best unit for either team on either side of the ball last night. I think Belichick has determined that if they need more speed, they can take out big guys for faster guys (as they did @ KC). They're pretty specific with what they like for LB (weight) so I won't be surprised to see them take a guy high if they find one they do like, but Hightower / Van Noy / Bentley / Roberts is a top four I'm comfortable with heading into 2019.

WR on the other hand ...
But basically this feels like '06 for the receivers. Getting guys coached up to speed with the off-season is something that can happen but I think they need at least 2 veteran guys who aren't complete retreads.
I think in a perfect world they bring back one of Dorsett / Patterson, sign a LaFell-y FA (or trade for one), and draft a guy, maybe two.

S-Chung (32), DMac (32), Harmon (29), Dawson (24)

It’s not sure thing that either or even both of McCourty and Chung will be back for the ‘19 season and the ‘20 season is even murkier. They could both also be approaching the proverbial cliff at anytime now.

Safety is a huge need this offseason. Would anyone feel comfortable going into 2020 with the top safeties being a 30/31 year old Harmon and a rookie? They’ll draft one this year with an eye towards the future. I wouldn’t be surprised if they use a lot of draft capital to go get one that they like early in the draft.
Me neither. Add Melifonwu to your list (and maybe Crossen) but we haven't seen a lot from those guys. They got away with not really having a backup for Chung (who is their coverage LB as much as he's a S).

I completely forgot and was surprised to find out in this thread that Rowe was still on the team.
Not just on the team, he played every snap Week 1. I had high hopes for him, and he's still just 26, but JMac / JC Jackson / JJones made him superfluous in a hurry.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Me neither. Add Melifonwu to your list (and maybe Crossen) but we haven't seen a lot from those guys. They got away with not really having a backup for Chung (who is their coverage LB as much as he's a S).
Amani Hooker from Iowa looks like an intriguing guy that could be groomed into an eventual Chung replacement. Ferentz used him this past year a lot like BB uses Chung - both as a traditional safety and as the "coverage LB" in a number of sub packages. Most sites seem to project him in the 2-3 range.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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I don’t agree with a word of this beyond “They should draft guys” – Belichick just called Chung one of the best players he’s ever coached. Is it possible he’ll let him or any of these fjys go? I suppose. But they have one of the best secondaries in football right now and can afford them. They’re not going to blow this area of strength up because they could theoretically fall off some cliff.
I wasn't talking about Bill letting those guys go, but it's not an unrealistic thought that either or both walk away on their own and retire. I also don't think drafting a rookie (even with a high pick) is in any way blowing up an area of strength. Safety seems like a very complicated position in the NFL. Giving their next safety a season to play behind and watch guys like McCourty and Chung seems like it'd only help their development.
 

j44thor

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I wonder if bringing back Jason keeps Devin around. Devin seemed genuinely happy playing with this brother and Jason seems very interested in coming back. Jason is probably a vet min player or very close to it at this stage so I'd hope they can bring him back as a 3rd/4th corner if it makes it more likely Devin returns.
 

Deathofthebambino

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IMO, if Gronk retires, Wide Receiver goes from an urgent need to an "absolutely, imperative, must do whatever it takes to find a stud" need. For years, the Pats have been able to get away with not having a true threat on the outside, because in addition to a great slot receiver, they've had the big guy out there taking up a massive amount of attention from the defense. If he goes, I can see them drafting someone in this class, but hoping we hit lightning in a bottle twice at that position seems optimistic. I like both Patterson and Dorsett as depth guys (and Patterson for special teams/gadget stuff), but neither of them are going to be a #1 or #2 guy on the outside. We simply can't go into the season giving Brady a bunch of running backs, a slot receiver and some Reche Caldwell's at wide receiver and expect to have the same kind of success. It'll be a disservice to the entire team.

As long as Scarnecchia is back, I literally can't even get worried about offensive line. The man could go down to his local steel workers union hall, find some big guys and turn them into guys that can protect Brady and demolish linebackers in the run game in about 6 weeks.

On the other side of the ball, I think Trey Flowers is the key to everything they decide to do. If he (and I assume Hightower isn't retiring) is back, I think it makes them stronger everywhere else. If they lose him, they don't just need to replace him, but they need to upgrade around him too. He's the one taking on double teams and opening the holes for KVN and the other linebackers to make plays. He allows the rest of the D Line to face man to man and hold their ground. He's a huge piece of this defense, and I hope they can figure out a way to pay him.

I think both McCourty's are back, and are back on team friendly deals. After Bill went out and took a chance on Jason in the offseason, and then gave them the greatest moment in their lives, I can't imagine Jason wanting to go somewhere else for a little more money, and if Jason comes back, I think Devin gives it at least one more year. Gilmore/JC Jackson, the McCourty's and then worry about it from there. That's a fine corps. I also think they love the versatility they get from JJones, so they'll re-sign him, and Chung isn't going anywhere.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I think the odds of finding a ‘stud’ receiver ready to produce in 2019 are low. There’s not a lot of them, I don’t think any are pending free agents and how many rookie receivers are great in their first year? I don’t think they ‘need’ a Julio Jones (and good thing because they aren’t getting one) but they do need several viable options that they don’t have.

Their best chance is to sign someone like Golden Tate, maybe keep Dorsett, take some fliers and use a top 4 round pick on a guy who realistically might become a starter in 2020.

I think, although diminished, they really need Gronk back for a final year. After Mitchell’s knee issues seemingly have ended his career, Gordon not presenting a reliable roster option, and not getting any long-term talent other than perhaps Dorsett (who is a UFA), they’ve found themselves in a very tough pickle at that position. There are worse personnel dilemmas to be sure, but, man, at some point your depth and age at a position become untenable.
 

Deathofthebambino

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I think the odds of finding a ‘stud’ receiver ready to produce in 2019 are low. There’s not a lot of them, I don’t think any are pending free agents and how many rookie receivers are great in their first year? I don’t think they ‘need’ a Julio Jones (and good thing because they aren’t getting one) but they do need several viable options that they don’t have.

Their best chance is to sign someone like Golden Tate, maybe keep Dorsett, take some fliers and use a top 4 round pick on a guy who realistically might become a starter in 2020.

I think, although diminished, they really need Gronk back for a final year. After Mitchell’s knee issues seemingly have ended his career, Gordon not presenting a reliable roster option, and not getting any long-term talent other than perhaps Dorsett (who is a UFA), they’ve found themselves in a very tough pickle at that position. There are worse personnel dilemmas to be sure, but, man, at some point your depth and age at a position become untenable.
I'm not sure why everyone is so excited for a Golden Tate signing. He's a slot guy. IMO, he's not even as good anymore as the one we have. He's never been a great outside receiver. I realize he's the best of the bunch on the free agent market, but I don't think he's a good fit here, just like he wasn't a good fit in Philly (where they already had Nelson Agholor as a slot guy). I'm not saying they can go out and get Julio Jones, but they do have a lot of draft picks to play with, and there is a lot of talented wide receivers on rebuilding teams in the NFL. I think Bill could turn a 2nd round pick into a much better option than Golden Tate. I haven't started the legwork on who I think that might be yet, but I'm passing on Tate.

If Gronk comes back, then I'm so much less worried. Tell him he doesn't need to show up until Wednesday every week, only has to put on pads once a week, whatever it takes to keep him happy and healthy. Shit, tell him he only needs to play 12 regular season games for all I care. He's such a difference maker for the offense, even when he's not catching passes. He's basically spent his entire career disguising the fact that Bill has basically never given Brady a true #1 wide receiver, besides maybe Brandon Cooks.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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Moving on from Ghost to a rookie would give the Pats about $5.5M in cap space to deploy if they avoid franchising him.

Joel Corry with CBS Sports writes the following:

The four-year, $17.2 million deal Gostkowski signed in 2015 as a franchise player still sets the kicker market. Gostkowski could have his sights set on becoming the league's first $5 million per year kicker. It will cost $5.98 million for New England to franchise Gostkowski under the 120 percent of the prior year's salary rules.
If Belichick was willing to go from Vinatieri to a fourth round rookie out of Memphis it certainly is a consideration to let Ghost walk and use the money somewhere else.
 

Red Averages

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Given how many picks the Patriots have, I cannot wait to see who he ends up trading for this offseason. I'd expect they'll get some sort of receiver/TE. This will be the first year they don't need to worry about getting a RB, or maybe even an OL (depending on Brown/Wynn). Really amazing actually how well they are set up still, with a good amount of cap flexibility.
 

Captaincoop

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At some point they need a young QB. I know we want to imagine otherwise.

Any indication they consider Etling more than a placeholder? I didn't read much about how he progressed this year. If they aren't high on his potential, they need to be panning the draft again for a project QB, IMHO.
 
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