2019 Patriots: Post-SB Roster Thread

Zedia

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Reiss says the Patriots have indeed signed Jamie Collins. Can't imagine it will be anything more than a roster spot for training camp and see where it goes from there. They are pretty well stocked at linebacker.
Are they? Besides Van Noy and Hightower, the only other OLBs are Brandon King (ST) and a couple UDFA. Elandon, Sam and Bentley are listed as MLBs. Simon is listed as DE.
 

koufax32

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Reiss says the Patriots have indeed signed Jamie Collins. Can't imagine it will be anything more than a roster spot for training camp and see where it goes from there. They are pretty well stocked at linebacker.

Does it mean fewer snaps for Elandon Roberts? Yes = brilliant move No = meh
 

wiffleballhero

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I think he is going to be fucking awesome on his return.

He was always an immensely talented player. What a shock, a young guy has a hard time seeing how good he had it in the first go around with BB. He has a few more years and some Cleveland living under his belt. How can he not be motivated?
 

DrewDawg

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This feels like a bit of hazing/testing for Mayo. "Welcome to coaching - figure out how to make Collins a useful player again. Good luck."
Collins wasn't horrible last year. I don't think he's training camp fodder unless he somehow lost all his skills in one offseason.

PFF had him around average last year. If BB can get a little bump out of him, then that's a good signing.
 

DourDoerr

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I like the Chung comparison as a ceiling. If Collins' head is on straight and he still has his athleticism, this could be a great signing. Wonder what effect being reunited with Hightower might have - I have to think it'd be positive.

What size is that Collins jersey?
 

Van Everyman

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You like Collins becoming one of the league’s best players at his position as his ceiling? What’s his floor?

I do think it’s become this weird parlor game to deem any big name acquisition in New England as “training camp fodder.” I’m not sure if it’s typical Boston negativity or a way to avoid being disappointed if a player doesn’t meet expectations. But while I suppose it’s possible Collins doesn’t make it out of camp, I find it weird that anyone is comparing this to Brandon Spikes. From a pure talent perspective Collins has chunks of Spikes in his stool, nor does he play an increasingly irrelevant style of football.

Collins doesn’t have to become The Prodigal Chung 2.0 to have some optimism about this deal. Especially since it sounds like Bill is serving as coordinator this year.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Collins led a not bad Cleveland defense in tackles last year and had 4 sacks. I understand them cutting him in a money saving effort and to get younger, as their future is ahead of them.

And yes, I know that last phrase is a tautology but you know what I mean . The Patriot's future is now.
 

RedOctober3829

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Are they? Besides Van Noy and Hightower, the only other OLBs are Brandon King (ST) and a couple UDFA. Elandon, Sam and Bentley are listed as MLBs. Simon is listed as DE.
I think the depth chart at LB is good. You forgot Terez Hall and Shilique Calhoun. Consider the fact that they are rarely in a base defense and won’t always have 3 or 4 LBs on the field.
 

BaseballJones

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I think the depth chart at LB is good. You forgot Terez Hall and Shilique Calhoun. Consider the fact that they are rarely in a base defense and won’t always have 3 or 4 LBs on the field.
What are the positions where you think the Patriots are *not* in good shape depth-wise?

QB - Star starter, solid veteran backup, good rookie 3rd stringer
RB - A lot of diverse, terrific players
OL - Loaded
WR - If Thomas and Gordon return healthy and clean, this group is pretty loaded
TE - Ok, this group might have some struggles but Watson definitely helps depth
DL - Solid players up and down; Bennett replaces Flowers
LB - Getting Bentley back and adding Collins
CB - Loaded
S - Loaded

Heck, they even have competition at *punter* this year.

I'd love for them to have stars everywhere but that's obviously not possible. But they do seem to have quality depth all over the roster.
 

RedOctober3829

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What are the positions where you think the Patriots are *not* in good shape depth-wise?

QB - Star starter, solid veteran backup, good rookie 3rd stringer
RB - A lot of diverse, terrific players
OL - Loaded
WR - If Thomas and Gordon return healthy and clean, this group is pretty loaded
TE - Ok, this group might have some struggles but Watson definitely helps depth
DL - Solid players up and down; Bennett replaces Flowers
LB - Getting Bentley back and adding Collins
CB - Loaded
S - Loaded

Heck, they even have competition at *punter* this year.

I'd love for them to have stars everywhere but that's obviously not possible. But they do seem to have quality depth all over the roster.
Agree on QB and RB. TE and WR are question marks depending on Harry’s assimilation, Watson being able to put up numbers(Rudolph acquisition would help), Gordon’s status, and the amount of WR take-a-flyer guys sticking. OL is dependent on stabilizing LT.

Defensively, Bennett and Pennel are huge adds but can Winovich step in and produce? Can Cowart play to his ability? That would bring this group to another level. The LBs have solid starters and depth and secondary is loaded(feels good to say that).

Specialists are set.

Overall, the 90-man roster is as good as any roster BB has had in recent years. There aren’t any position groups that you’d say need a ton of work. If they can get Kyle Rudolph to stabilize TE, boy that would make it even better.
 

Zedia

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I think the depth chart at LB is good. You forgot Terez Hall and Shilique Calhoun. Consider the fact that they are rarely in a base defense and won’t always have 3 or 4 LBs on the field.
Terez was one of the UDFA I mentioned. The roster I saw had Calhoun listed as a DE, I know there’s some overlap there.

It just surprised me seeing that Hightower and Van Noy were the only real true OLBs with experience.
 

BaseballJones

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Agree on QB and RB. TE and WR are question marks depending on Harry’s assimilation, Watson being able to put up numbers(Rudolph acquisition would help), Gordon’s status, and the amount of WR take-a-flyer guys sticking. OL is dependent on stabilizing LT.

Defensively, Bennett and Pennel are huge adds but can Winovich step in and produce? Can Cowart play to his ability? That would bring this group to another level. The LBs have solid starters and depth and secondary is loaded(feels good to say that).

Specialists are set.

Overall, the 90-man roster is as good as any roster BB has had in recent years. There aren’t any position groups that you’d say need a ton of work. If they can get Kyle Rudolph to stabilize TE, boy that would make it even better.
Totally agree. Rudolph would be a very nice addition. No idea if that's truly in the works but yeah, a TE group of Rudolph/Watson/Seferian-Jenkins is a pretty solid squad.
 

DourDoerr

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You like Collins becoming one of the league’s best players at his position as his ceiling? What’s his floor?
Well, yeah, I do think that's the ceiling as Collins reached a greater peak - 2nd team All Pro - before his sojourn than Chung has still ever reached (and I love Chung). The comparison between the two is interesting to me because of several parallels that offer hope that Collins may be resurrected similar to Chung. If Collins experiences anything close to the improvement in his game that Chung has exhibited in his, then this move's a home run. Collins' combine numbers were elite. If he's close to those levels and has a better understanding of what he's needed to do within the system combined with a better appreciation of what NE is about, then he could be special. That's a pretty optimistic view though, of course, and I'd be surprised (and delighted) if he lands even within earshot to there. I've always liked watching him play and am just happy his athleticism is wearing the Flying Elvis again. Very curious to see what BB can get out of him.

The floor is a LB who can no longer stay with TE's, so pick your favorite current Pats LB.
 

tims4wins

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It wasn't long before the trade that Collins played great - go back and watch the week 3 Jacoby game against Houston. Collins was a freaking beast. As BB would say "we'll see". But Collins doesn't even need to necessarily improve from his first tenure; he just needs to be a little more consistent.
 
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Not sure where to post this, but a post SB roster construction thread seemed right.

Pioli just relieved himself of his assistant GM duties in ATL. After spending time in a lesser role I wonder if there's a fit back home for him and if that would be something we would/should be excited about.
 

Pandemonium67

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Regarding Collins, one of his strengths was speed, especially relative to his size, and one of the Pats' weaknesses (in my inexpert opinion) was speed at LB. It is really frustrating to see RBs take a short pass for 8 yards on 3rd and 6. I think that happened less last year than in previous years, but I think adding speed at LB can only be a good thing (assuming Collins is still fast, which I don't know).

If Collins plays well within the system and has both the size to cover TEs and the speed to at least somewhat cover RBs, that could be huge for the D.

Of course, if they let him loose to destroy a QB every now and then, that's cool too.
 

rodderick

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Regarding Collins, one of his strengths was speed, especially relative to his size, and one of the Pats' weaknesses (in my inexpert opinion) was speed at LB. It is really frustrating to see RBs take a short pass for 8 yards on 3rd and 6. I think that happened less last year than in previous years, but I think adding speed at LB can only be a good thing (assuming Collins is still fast, which I don't know).

If Collins plays well within the system and has both the size to cover TEs and the speed to at least somewhat cover RBs, that could be huge for the D.

Of course, if they let him loose to destroy a QB every now and then, that's cool too.
Those are precisely the things he struggled with in his first stint with the Patriots. He's great at playing vertically and blitzing up the middle, so I believe Bill will try to put Collins in position to do what he does best, don't expect him to be covering TEs down the seam or RBs on wheel routes, at least not by design.
 

ZMart100

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Chung wasn't great his first time here. I think Deion Branch is a better the comp. Good player who was going to get paid more than BB was comfortable with was sent out and got payed. He came back (although Branch cost a 4th draft pick and Collins costs only money) to play out the last several seasons of his career.
 

Jimbodandy

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Those are precisely the things he struggled with in his first stint with the Patriots. He's great at playing vertically and blitzing up the middle, so I believe Bill will try to put Collins in position to do what he does best, don't expect him to be covering TEs down the seam or RBs on wheel routes, at least not by design.
I'm going to assume that your memory is better than mine. My recollection was that Collins was the only guy in that group who could keep up with TE/RB but that he couldn't remember that it was his assignment or was off hitting someone else. It sure as hell wasn't Hightower chasing backs. Jones then?
 

Ed Hillel

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Collins was pretty good last season. I’m surprised nobody picked him up, and I certainly wouldn’t describe him as “camp fodder,” if he can perform as he did in 2018.
 

kenneycb

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I'm going to assume that your memory is better than mine. My recollection was that Collins was the only guy in that group who could keep up with TE/RB but that he couldn't remember that it was his assignment or was off hitting someone else. It sure as hell wasn't Hightower chasing backs. Jones then?
I do remember him getting burned on a RB wheel route on Seattle’s final drive. Not sure if that was the norm but I do specifically remember mf’ing him during that.
 

BigSoxFan

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I do remember him getting burned on a RB wheel route on Seattle’s final drive. Not sure if that was the norm but I do specifically remember mf’ing him during that.
Yup. First freaking play and Marshawn runs right past him for big gain.
 

Super Nomario

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Collins constantly bit on the flat on wheel routes but so did every Patriots defender in the SB against Philly so maybe it is point they don't coach very well.
 

kelpapa

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I thought I misremembered it since I didn't see it posted here already. I went to YouTube to check. Nope, I remembered it correctly. Both in zone and man.

If Malcolm Butler gets benched for the super bowl because of a missed assignment in the AFC title (and I get that mental errors like that are worse) I don't know how he'll ever be trusted in coverage.

All that being said, if the money is right, and he's used correctly, then I like the move. I just can't believe that people here are saying he can cover tight ends and running backs.
 

koufax32

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Collins constantly bit on the flat on wheel routes but so did every Patriots defender in the SB against Philly so maybe it is point they don't coach very well.
Malcolm Go Super Bowl is on, late in the fourth. Collins was the guy who got completely burned on the Lynch big gainer right at the 2 minute warning.

I may just close my eyes this year if he ever goes out into coverage.
 

Super Nomario

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Malcolm Go Super Bowl is on, late in the fourth. Collins was the guy who got completely burned on the Lynch big gainer right at the 2 minute warning.

I may just close my eyes this year if he ever goes out into coverage.
Yeah, it was a wheel route. Same route that Corey Clement(!) eviscerated the Pats D with in SB LII. Probably part of it is Collins but since it's like three different guys, it seems like some of the issue is how they're coaching the LBs in coverage.
 

TheoShmeo

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In Albert Breer's column today, he indicated the Pats have had trade discussions involving Kyle Rudolph with the Vikings. He also said that Gronkowski retired mainly due to concerns involving his back.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/20/colts-2019-offseason-chris-ballard-chris-long-retirement-patrick-peterson-suspension-mmqb?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=themmqb
Breer’s choice or words — “they’ve brought in Benjamin Watson, Austin Sefarian-Jenkins and Matt LaCosse, and talked with Minnesota about Kyle Rudolph” — does not make it seem like he believes that those discussions are ongoing. Not that it’s totally clear or that Breer would necessarily know or say. But still....
 

RedOctober3829

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And not about the concussions?
"One reason why Gronkowski scuffled through 2018 was a mid-season battle with a bulging disk in his back. By the end of the year, it was no longer a factor. But I’m told that knowing how close he might have been to a fourth back surgery, and the implications that could have down the line, was one factor in his decision to retire. So just logically, it’d be hard to imagine that concern would go away at 30 years old. Or, at the very least, would be one mental hurdle he’d have to clear if he were to come back again."

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/20/colts-2019-offseason-chris-ballard-chris-long-retirement-patrick-peterson-suspension-mmqb?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=themmqb
 

bernardsamuel

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Engaged sounds like past tense, not present, but I would be pleasantly surprised if they could trade for him
Not to worry, Sir, as in this particular situation, I do believe that "engaged" is an adjective modifying "Patriots" as contrasted to being a verb at all, much less a past-tense verb. The situation here is much like how we'd analyze "an engaged couple" or "an interested observer," with the past tense of a verb in the typical case serving as an adjective in the case at hand. All this Pilpul (now that's a great English term we use when diagramming sentences!) aside, I share with you the potential joy of our landing Kyle Rudolph, perhaps via one of those familiar trades in which our price is merely to move down not that many slots in the forthcoming draft. It would be amazing to wind up with tight end as a position of strength and depth in the 2019 season ahead, even without Gronk.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Pats have brought Danny Shelton back.

Maybe it's just working out this way, but it really feels as though Bill is putting very heavy stock in getting guys he knows.

With Brady playing at his all time high cap number and with the Patriots having other cap challenges even with Gronk's retirement, and with the turnover of coaches, Bill seems to be taking refuge in seeing if he can be competitive in a tough year by going with known quantities. You sort of wonder if he could have foreseen some of the moves that would free up cap space when he was looking for a receiver if he would have taken a harder look at Amendola. At the time, the cap space situation looked really rough, but in retrospect it sort of looks like it would have been a move that would have fit in pretty well with some of the other stuff he's doing.