2019 Draft

nighthob

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Some whispers going around (which don't sound too serious yet) that the Knicks might consider trading #3 to the Hawks for #8 and #10. Who would that trade favor, do you think?
I mean if it includes Prince and a future first it’s not a bad deal. I like Barrett, but a future Hawks #1 is cash money.
 

amfox1

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The back of your computer
Official list of NBA early entrues (no seniors, no international players)
red - non-NCAA players, bold - likely draftees

Nickeil Alexander Walker 6-5 205 SG Virginia Tech So.
RJ Barrett 6-7 210 SG Duke Fr.

Tyus Battle 6-6 205 SG Syracuse Jr.
Darius Bazley 6-9 200 SF/PF High School 1998
Bol Bol 7-2 235 C Oregon Fr.
Marques Bolden 6-11 250 C Duke Jr.
Jordan Bone 6-2 180 PG Tennessee Jr.
Brian Bowen 6-7 200 SF Sydney Kings 1998
Ky Bowman 6-1 190 PG Boston College Jr.
Ignas Brazdeikis 6-7 225 SF Michigan Fr.
Oshae Brissett 6-8 210 SF Syracuse So.
Armoni Brooks 6-3 195 PG/SG Houston Jr.
Charlie Brown 6-7 200 SG St. Joseph's So.
Moses Brown 7-1 245 C UCLA Fr.
Brandon Clarke 6-8 220 PF/C Gonzaga Jr.
Nicolas Claxton 6-11 220 PF Georgia So.

Amir Coffey 6-7 205 SG/SF Minnesota Jr.
Tyler Cook 6-8 255 PF Iowa Jr.
Jarrett Culver 6-6 195 SG Texas Tech So.
Aubrey Dawkins 6-6 205 SG/SF Central Florida Jr.
Luguentz Dort 6-4 220 SG Arizona St. Fr.
Jason Draggs 6-9 Lee College (TX) Fr.
Carsen Edwards 6-0 200 PG Purdue Jr.
Bruno Fernando 6-10 245 C Maryland So.
Daniel Gafford 6-10 230 PF/C Arkansas So.
Darius Garland 6-2 175 PG Vanderbilt Fr.

Kyle Guy 6-2 175 PG/SG Virginia Jr.
Rui Hachimura 6-8 235 SF/PF Gonzaga Jr.
Jaylen Hands 6-3 180 PG UCLA So.
Jared Harper 5-10 170 PG Auburn So.
Jaxson Hayes 6-11 220 PF/C Texas Fr.
Dewan Hernandez 6-10 235 C Miami Jr.
Tyler Herro 6-5 195 SG Kentucky Fr.
Amir Hinton 6-5 190 SG Shaw Jr.
Jaylen Hoard 6-8 220 SF/PF Wake Forest Fr.
Daulton Hommes 6-8 215 SF Point Loma Jr.
Talen Horton Tucker 6-4 230 SG/SF Iowa St. Fr.
DeAndre Hunter 6-7 225 SF/PF Virginia So.

Vance Jackson 6-9 235 PF New Mexico So.
Ty Jerome 6-5 200 PG Virginia Jr.
Keldon Johnson 6-6 215 SG/SF Kentucky Fr.
Mfiondu Kabengele 6-10 250 PF/C Florida St. So.

Sacha Killeya Jones 6-11 NC State Jr.
Louis King 6-8 205 SF Oregon Fr.
VJ King 6-6 190 SF Louisville Jr.
Sagaba Konate 6-8 250 PF/C West Virginia Jr.
Martin Krampelj 6-9 Creighton Jr.
Romeo Langford 6-6 210 SG Indiana Fr.
Cameron Lard 6-9 PF Iowa State So.
Dedric Lawson 6-8 235 PF Kansas Jr.
Jalen Lecque 6-3 190 PG/SG NC State HSSr.
Jacob Ledoux 6-3 Texas-Permian Basin Jr.
Nassir Little 6-6 220 SF North Carolina Fr.
Trevor Manuel 6-9 Olivet (MI) Jr.
Charles Matthews 6-6 205 SG Michigan Jr.
Jalen McDaniels 6-10 195 PF San Diego St. So.
William McDowell White 6-5 190 SG Australia
Adam Mokoka 6-5 210 SG Mega Bemax 1998

Ja Morant 6-3 175 PG Murray St. So.
Kouat Noi 6-7 205 SF TCU So.
Zach Norvell 6-5 205 SG Gonzaga So.
Jaylen Nowell 6-4 200 PG/SG Washington So.
Chuma Okeke 6-8 235 SF/PF Auburn So.
KZ Okpala 6-8 195 SG/SF Stanford So.

Miye Oni 6-6 210 SG Yale Jr.
Lamar Peters 6-0 Mississippi St. Jr.
Shamorie Ponds 6-1 175 PG St. Johns Jr.
Jordan Poole 6-4 195 SG Michigan So.
Jontay Porter 6-11 240 C Missouri So.
Kevin Porter 6-5 220 SG/SF USC Fr.

Brandon Randolph 6-5 180 SG Arizona Jr.
Cameron Reddish 6-7 215 SG/SF Duke Fr.
Isaiah Reese 6-5 185 PG Canisius Jr.
Naz Reid 6-10 250 C LSU Fr.
Austin Robinson 6-2 Kentucky Christian So.
Isaiah Roby 6-8 230 SF/PF Nebraska Jr.
Ayinde Russell 6-3 Morehouse Jr.
Samir Sehic 6-9 235 PF Tulane Jr.
Simi Shittu 6-10 240 PF Vanderbilt Fr.
Nike Sibande 6-4 185 SG Miami (OH) So.
Justin Simon 6-5 205 SG St. John's Jr.
Dmarcus Simonds 6-3 195 PG/SG Georgia St. Jr.
Jalen Sykes 6-5 St. Clair College (Canada) Jr.
Jeremiah Tilmon 6-10 240 PF/C Missouri So.
Rayjon Tucker 6-5 210 SG Arkansas-Little Rock Jr.
Nick Ward 6-8 250 PF Michigan State Jr.
PJ Washington 6-8 235 PF Kentucky So.
Tremont Waters 5-10 170 LSU So.
Coby White 6-5 185 PG/SG North Carolina Fr.
Lindell Wigginton 6-2 190 PG Iowa St. So.
Kris Wilkes 6-8 215 SF UCLA So.
Grant Williams 6-7 240 PF Tennessee Jr.
Zion Williamson 6-6 280 PF Duke Fr.

Kenny Wooten 6'9 235 PF Oregon So.

Seniors likely to be drafted include Matisse Thybulle, Dylan Windler, Cam Johnson, Tacko Fall, Eric Paschall and Admiral Schofield.
 
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benhogan

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DannyDarwinism

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Why is there so much interest in Kevin Porter Jr?

1. He wasn't a top 10 or even 20 recruit coming out of HS
2. He rarely started for a middling USC team in a middling conference
3. He averaged 9.5pt/gm
4. He shot 42% from 3 but 52% on FTs
5. He averaged more TO than assists
6. Off-court issues?

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2018/order/true

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/stats/_/id/4397140/kevin-porter-jr
For me, it's completely an eye-test thing combined with being pretty low on the other guys projected in the back half of the lottery. I completely realize he could be (and to date, has been) all sizzle and no steak, but his combination of strength, length, body control and functional athleticism, plus flashes of NBA-level handles and shot-making skill put his ceiling much higher than other guys in his range. It's similar to the argument for Jaylen Brown coming out of Cal: guy played poorly in a bad situation, but he has an NBA-ready body and potential to be a two-way player at a premium position in a weak draft. Though KPJ's red flags are more concerning than Jaylen's were, and his floor is "guy who fucks everything up whenever he's on the floor."

It is, though, an indictment of this draft class. I probably have him in the 10-15 range at this point because even with his floor so low, there just aren't a lot of guys with his ceiling. Compare against Grant Williams, who was awesome in college for a really good team, but lacks NBA size and athleticism for his position, and who I think will struggle to play his bully-ball against bigger, stronger bigs, and doesn't really have the speed to keep up with NBA SFs, and I'll take the upside guy, even if he's a long shot because the other guy is pretty cheap to replace.
 

nighthob

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Why is there so much interest in Kevin Porter Jr?

1. He wasn't a top 10 or even 20 recruit coming out of HS
2. He rarely started for a middling USC team in a middling conference
3. He averaged 9.5pt/gm
4. He shot 42% from 3 but 52% on FTs
5. He averaged more TO than assists
6. Off-court issues?
It’s the absurd skill levels combined with sufficient athleticism to utilize them. The questions surrounding him are all about the space between his ears. It takes real work to get kicked off a major USC athletic team.
 

Big John

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It doesn't hurt that Porter starred at Ranier Beach, a school that has produced a half dozen NBA players. He's been on everyone's radar for years.

Remember the name MarJon Beauchamp, who will likely be the next 5-star recruit out of that school.
 
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nighthob

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Will Ranier be his third or fourth high school team? I've lost track. He really could be the next Kevin Porter Jr.
 

Big John

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Will Ranier be his third or fourth high school team? I've lost track. He really could be the next Kevin Porter Jr.
It's Beauchamp's third. But he can play. Reminds me a little of Shaun Livingston, before Livingston hurt his knee.

 
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benhogan

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It's just weird, Porter never put up a 20pt game this year. Wasn't all that highly rated coming out of HS by several rating services. USC played a pedestrian schedule. You'd think he'd have at least one big game? What HS he played for means absolutely nothing after what he showed at USC.

Measured 6'2" w/out sneakers at NBA Combine.

I'm more interested in lots of other guys from 15-22 than Porter Jr.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2019-nba-draft-prospect-profile-kevin-porter-jr

"Porter's NBA career may depend largely on the coaching staff he is brought into. He is very raw on both ends of the floor. Some evaluators believe his shot needs a mechanical adjustment and he has to refine his ball-handling. The fundamentals don't appear to be there for him on defense, either."

https://www.slamonline.com/slam-tv/kevin-porter-jr-official-nba-draft-workout/

very good at dunking... he's a poor mans Dennis Smith Jr.
 
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DannyDarwinism

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Here's what I have so far, by teirs without much commentary. Guys I'm higher on than consensus- PJ Washington, KPJ, Fernando, Samanic, Nic Claxton, Shamorie Ponds, Charles Matthews, Paul Eboua and Terrance Mann. Guys I'm lower on- Rui, Sekou, Keldon Johnson


Zion

Ja
Barrett

Culver (solid but don't love him, man does this draft fall off a cliff quickly)
Coby White
Garland (based mainly on consensus, don't have much of an informed opinion)
Clarke
PJ Washington
Goga
Kevin Porter Jr
DeAndre Hunter
Jaxson Hayes
Alexander-Walker
Reddish

Little
Horton-Tucker
Grant W
Fernando
Thybulle
Samanic
Bol
Rui
Claxton
Jontay Porter

Sekou (don’t really get the love, his athleticism reminds me more of Kedrick Brown’s, where there’s a lack of agility/smoothness that renders the explosiveness and straight-line speed pretty ineffective)
Herro
Okeke
Gafford
Cam J
Kabengele


Ponds
Keldon Johnson
Carsen Edwards
Charles Matthews
Terrance Mann
Cody Martin
Bazley
Jerome
Windler
Okpala
Norvell
Tacko (why the hell not at this point?)
Pashall
Dort
Isaiah Roby
Jalen McDaniels
Josh Reaves
Daquan Jeffries
Louis King
Brazdeikas
Miye Oni
Paul Eboua
 

DannyDarwinism

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It's just weird, Porter never put up a 20pt game this year. Wasn't all that highly rated coming out of HS by several rating services. USC played a pedestrian schedule. You'd think he'd have at least one big game? What HS he played for means absolutely nothing after what he showed at USC.

Measured 6'2" w/out sneakers at NBA Combine.

I'm more interested in lots of other guys from 15-22 than Porter Jr.

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/wizards/2019-nba-draft-prospect-profile-kevin-porter-jr

"Porter's NBA career may depend largely on the coaching staff he is brought into. He is very raw on both ends of the floor. Some evaluators believe his shot needs a mechanical adjustment and he has to refine his ball-handling. The fundamentals don't appear to be there for him on defense, either."

https://www.slamonline.com/slam-tv/kevin-porter-jr-official-nba-draft-workout/

very good at dunking... he's a poor mans Dennis Smith Jr.
Source on the 6’2? He was 6’5.5 w/shoes with a 6’10 wingspan, per Givony.

It’s not weird. Some fans/scouts like a guy based on athletic profile and skill set, others don’t like him based on lack of production and character concerns. It’s a phenomenon as old as the NBA draft itself. He was either injured or in trouble for much of the year, and we’re talking about a mid-first in what looks to be a bad draft. I think he’s the type of guy you take a swing on over guys more likely to hit their cheaply replaceable median outcomes, knowing that on the good chance he flames out, you just move on. But a lot of this comes down to draft philosophy and upside evaluation.
 

Big John

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This draft is a crapshoot starting right at the top, because Zion's shot needs major work and Morant is a late bloomer who may or may not be as good as advertised.

I sort of divide players into groups by their potential and by what they can do.

High floor, limited ceiling: Hunter, Goga
High ceiling projects: Doumbouya (yes, his game looks mechanical at times but he doesn't turn 19 until December 23), Kabengele, Porter, Bol Bol
Shooters: White, Windler, Samanic, Herro
Defenders: Thybulle, Little (Also Zion and Hunter fit here)
Bust written all over them: Ponds

And then there is everyone else, and I have no idea how to rank these guys. Can someone convince me that Reddish will have a better NBA career than, say Okpala or Hachimura? Based on what I've seen so far, after pick 2 I could just put the names in a hat and draw randomly unless I were looking for a particular skill.
 

benhogan

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Source on the 6’2? He was 6’5.5 w/shoes with a 6’10 wingspan, per Givony.

It’s not weird. Some fans/scouts like a guy based on athletic profile and skill set, others don’t like him based on lack of production and character concerns. It’s a phenomenon as old as the NBA draft itself. He was either injured or in trouble for much of the year, and we’re talking about a mid-first in what looks to be a bad draft. I think he’s the type of guy you take a swing on over guys more likely to hit their cheaply replaceable median outcomes, knowing that on the good chance he flames out, you just move on. But a lot of this comes down to draft philosophy and upside evaluation.
when I googled "Kevin Porter Jr combine" this was the first thing that showed up

2019 NBA Draft Wizards Prospect Preview: Kevin Porter Jr. .... At the NBA Combine, he was measured at 6'2" without shoes, with a 6'8.75" ...

but it was different in other spots

 
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DannyDarwinism

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when I googled "Kevin Porter Jr combine" this was the first thing that showed up

2019 NBA Draft Wizards Prospect Preview: Kevin Porter Jr. .... At the NBA Combine, he was measured at 6'2" without shoes, with a 6'8.75" ...

but it was different in other spots
https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-draft-combine-measurements

That has him at 6’4 w/o shoes with an 8’7 standing reach, which is longer than Jarrett Culver or, amazingly, Brandon Clarke.
 

nighthob

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It's just weird, Porter never put up a 20pt game this year. Wasn't all that highly rated coming out of HS by several rating services. USC played a pedestrian schedule. You'd think he'd have at least one big game? What HS he played for means absolutely nothing after what he showed at USC.

Measured 6'2" w/out sneakers at NBA Combine. ...

very good at dunking... he's a poor mans Dennis Smith Jr.
The great thing about the NBA combine is that you can just go to the NBA website and look it up. He was 6’4” in his bare feet.
 

benhogan

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https://www.nbadraft.net/2019-nba-draft-combine-measurements

That has him at 6’4 w/o shoes with an 8’7 standing reach, which is longer than Jarrett Culver or, amazingly, Brandon Clarke.
Yep. Your number has to be more accurate.

6'2" or 6'4" not my kind of lottery pick for the 8 other reasons I listed.

Looks like he is dropping according to The Ringer.

https://247sports.com/college/usc/Article/Kevin-Porter-Jr-NBA-mock-draft-USC-basketball--132445676/
 

nighthob

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I mean he has a better standing reach than Marcus and Marcus manages to defend centers. Marcus and a guy that people cast dreamy eyes upon around here, Gary Harris, are both around 6’2” in their bare feet, if memory serves. Donovan Mitchell is 6’1”.

The fact that Porter’s 6’4” in his bare feet isn’t really relevant. Because you don’t play ball in your bare feet. The guy that he reminds us all of, James Harden, is also 6’4” in his bare feet, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that he can’t be a shooting guard.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Yep. Your number has to be more accurate.

6'2" or 6'4" not my kind of lottery pick for the 8 other reasons I listed.

Looks like he is dropping according to The Ringer.

https://247sports.com/college/usc/Article/Kevin-Porter-Jr-NBA-mock-draft-USC-basketball--132445676/
Yeah, some of us discussed his fall on the various mock draft boards in this thread a while back. Tjarks and KoC’s takes are pretty in line with the pro-KPJ people here- “all the talent in the world”- and, you and your hastily googled “8 other reasons” aside, I’d be happy if I were a Sixers fan if he fell to 24 in this draft. His downsides are very well documented and obviously baked into his priced.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, some of us discussed his fall on the various mock draft boards in this thread a while back. Tjarks and KoC’s takes are pretty in line with the pro-KPJ people here- “all the talent in the world”- and, you and your hastily googled “8 other reasons” aside, I’d be happy if I were a Sixers fan if he fell to 24 in this draft. His downsides are very well documented and obviously baked into his priced.
I'm definitely guilty of taking what was off Google for his height, so my bad.

#24 seems more inline.

His athleticism was well documented. What I find interesting is he was the #26-40 rated freshman coming into this class, did zero on the court this season and then had off the court issues. Color me skeptical on the top 3 talent in this draft and Harden/Brown comp hype.
 

nighthob

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That’s a pretty terrible mock draft. There is no way that Boston drafts two more developmental centers with one already on the roster and their veteran center very likely to leave in the wake of Kyrexit.
 

chilidawg

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The Tankathon mock seems to make sense to me, or at least there aren't what would seem to me to be horrible outliers. I don't get the Horton-Tucker to the Celts at 22 though, unless they think he's going to get in better shape and develop some lift. I like Bol at 14 and Hachimura at 20.

http://www.tankathon.com/mock_draft
 

Big John

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I don't know how to evaluate the current mocks either. Will the Celtics be drafting for themselves or for some other team? If a big trade is in the works, what will the post trade needs be? Obviously if AD is coming in they won't be drafting 3 centers.

In the scenario where Kyrie is leaving and they are planning to build around Tatum, Brown and Smart, I would expect at least one draft and stash player, unless they can find three guys who they think can contribute immediately.
 

nighthob

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Al Horford recently stated, in a discussion about his free agency plans, that he wanted to play for a title. So this has nothing to do with me and everything with just reading his actual words. No tea leaves involved.
 

DrewDawg

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Al Horford recently stated, in a discussion about his free agency plans, that he wanted to play for a title. So this has nothing to do with me and everything with just reading his actual words. No tea leaves involved.
But that's based on you assuming Kyrie is gone and AD not coming here.
 

DrewDawg

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Which is why I prefaced my remark with “post-Kyrexit”.
I understand the context, I think the point is that it seems like you're predicting all 3 things are going to happen--Kyrie leaves, no AD, no Al. And that's why the other poster said you seem to have it all figured out.
 

benhogan

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I understand the context, I think the point is that it seems like you're predicting all 3 things are going to happen--Kyrie leaves, no AD, no Al. And that's why the other poster said you seem to have it all figured out.
It's probably not a bad idea to prepare for the worst (Kyrexit w/no AD which may lead to an Al exit) and hope for the best (Kyrie stays, Danny gets AD and Al extends for 3 seasons).

The old adage of drafting the best player, not according to team need applies here. So if Jaxson Hayes is there at 22, I wouldn't blame them for drafting him even though it appears that TL is very similar. Danny will be in full deal mode over the next season with or without Kyrie & Co.
 

DannyDarwinism

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I wouldn’t hate that at all. Well, depending on which pick they’d use. I had forgot about him because he’s not on a lot of mocks, but he’s an Ainge-type guy- strong, athletic potential 3&D guy with some ability to create. Smallish for a combo guard, but can defend PGs and his strength his strength helps him D up bigger guys. Reminds me of Oni from Yale. Similar frame and numbers, except Davis was putting them up against much better competition.

Apparently he’s been one of the big risers since the combine after he performed really well in the shooting drills.
 

nighthob

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I understand the context, I think the point is that it seems like you're predicting all 3 things are going to happen--Kyrie leaves, no AD, no Al. And that's why the other poster said you seem to have it all figured out.
The poster was literally responding to my Horford comment, not any of the other things you’re reading in to it.
 

nighthob

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I wouldn’t hate that at all. Well, depending on which pick they’d use. I had forgot about him because he’s not on a lot of mocks, but he’s an Ainge-type guy- strong, athletic potential 3&D guy with some ability to create. Smallish for a combo guard, but can defend PGs and his strength his strength helps him D up bigger guys. Reminds me of Oni from Yale. Similar frame and numbers, except Davis was putting them up against much better competition.

Apparently he’s been one of the big risers since the combine after he performed really well in the shooting drills.
With Hayward and Smart around a big PG defender that can shoot treys isn’t the worst use of a late #1
 

DrewDawg

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The poster was literally responding to my Horford comment, not any of the other things you’re reading in to it.
Huh?

You sure do seem to think you have the entire BOS offseason figured out. Kyrie gone. AD not coming here. And now Horford leaving too.
It was a bit of a throwaway post by me but he was ribbing you for call predicting Boston losing Kyrie, AD, and Al. That's all I was saying.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Sagaba Konate, WVU, is staying in the draft.

Like his defense, size (as a 4/5) and 76%FT.

Probably available in the 2nd round.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sagaba-konate-1.html
He measured 6’6.5” (no shoes) in last years NBA Combine, so his size is a problem since his chief skill is rim protector. Makes what he did last year at WVU fairly impressive with all those 2 hand rejections, but doubtful teams think it will play at the next level. I doubt he gets drafted and he’ll likely play overseas.
 

benhogan

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He measured 6’6.5” (no shoes) in last years NBA Combine, so his size is a problem since his chief skill is rim protector. Makes what he did last year at WVU fairly impressive with all those 2 hand rejections, but doubtful teams think it will play at the next level. I doubt he gets drafted and he’ll likely play overseas.
IMO Konate, 250lbs of muscle, could defensively handle NBA 4s.
For reference, Trez measured 6'7" w/out shoes, and he is more than adequate at the 5. Danny used a first rounder on Yabusele and I can't imagine his height was much greater.

I got more interested in Konate, as an undervalued 2nd rounder, when I saw bowiac's post earlier this year. Konate's BPM ranked very highly as a freshman in limited minutes, was a solid FT shooter his Soph year, and started developing a 3pt shot his Junior year before getting injured.

I don't have strong takes here, but I thought it useful to post the list of best freshman by BPM. Zion is by far #1, but there are some names here I haven't really heard discussed as top prospects.

For reference, here is a list of the best freshman since 2010-2011 (as far back as we back BPM data). Pretty much everyone at +11 or above is already a good NBA player or could still become one, and it tapers off from there.

His defensive BPM is off the charts. If he works on his 3pt shot, he could find himself in an NBA rotation.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sagaba-konate-1.html
 
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HomeRunBaker

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IMO Konate, 250lbs of muscle, could defensively handle NBA 4s.
For reference, Trez measured 6'7" w/out shoes, and he is more than adequate at the 5. Danny used a first rounder on Yabusele and I can't imagine his height was much greater.

I got more interested in Konate, as an undervalued 2nd rounder, when I saw bowiac's post earlier this year. Konate's BPM ranked very highly as a freshman in limited minutes, was a solid FT shooter his Soph year, and started developing a 3pt shot his Junior year before getting injured.



His defensive BPM is off the charts. If he works on his 3pt shot, he could find himself in an NBA rotation.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/sagaba-konate-1.html
Yabusele was only selected by Ainge due to his ability/willingness to be stashed. I agree Konate can be an effective low-ceiling/high-floor second unit guy similar to guys like a Big Baby or DeJuan Blair......I don’t feel he’s nearly agile enough to defend the PNR to be in the Harrell/Ben Wallace league but the kid has a chance to find a niche here.
 

sezwho

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I found this article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/hoopshype.com/2018/09/28/nba-draft-and-stash-players/amp/

But does anyone have metrics on overall success for the draft and stashes relative to placement? Given the amount of hard work that goes into drafting research and frankly the amount of dumb luck associated with it, mixing the third constraint of needing them to stay abroad for a year seems like it would produce a pretty low success rate.

It still surprises me there doesn’t seem to be a market for pushing your pick back a year like in football and even hockey...too much volatility from year to year or maybe GM’s just don’t fall in love with players after the lottery?
 

Big John

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Is there an analysis somewhere of players who were stashed and later came over to play in the NBA, e.g. Yabu and Mirotic? Or undrafted international players who had NBA careers like Nocioni and Calderon? I can't fined one.

Certainly guys like Tomic and Liull were good enough had they wanted to come over. Same with Diamantidis, who went undrafted in 2002.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Jul 7, 2007
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ESPN's new mock has Celtics getting Brandon Clarke, Bol Bol, and Kevin Porter. Paywall: http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/26719722/nba-mock-draft-first-round-movement-latest-intel

That to me would be a great draft, though I might prefer a shooter instead of Porter's theoretical upside after Bol.
A shooter would be nice. Herro can shoot the shit out of the ball, passes well and grinds on defense, but the negative wingspan really hurts. He'll get hunted by teams in the NBA. I don't know who's the best bet to defend adequately out of Dylan Windler, Cam Johnson or Iggy Brazdeikis, but they all can space the floor all will struggle to stay in front of NBA wings, Windler may be the best bet (and also has the best all-around game on offense), but Iggy at least may have the strength to defend up a position.

There's also a Lithuanian kid, Deividas Sirvydis, who has a really nice stroke, along with some ball-handling, passing and pull-up skill, plus he's 6'8. He's rail thin though, so I don't really see him as someone Ainge would target, but he's very young so he has a chance to add some muscle to his frame. He'll have to get a good trainer/supplier if he has any hope of making it at the next level.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
6,155
Santa Monica
Yabusele was only selected by Ainge due to his ability/willingness to be stashed. I agree Konate can be an effective low-ceiling/high-floor second unit guy similar to guys like a Big Baby or DeJuan Blair......I don’t feel he’s nearly agile enough to defend the PNR to be in the Harrell/Ben Wallace league but the kid has a chance to find a niche here.
We both agree that Yabu is a waste of roster space. Hopefully, he gets moved, I'd rather have a guy like Konate (or your guy: Tacko Fall) as our 15th player or two- way G-League players. We're talking about a late 2nd round pick or undrafted rookie, so it's not a huge price to pay.

Konate is plus defense, PF size/girth, an 80% FT shooter and an improving 3pt shot. He's definitely not in Ben Wallace league, or even Harrell but he already is a better shooter than both of them.

Big Baby and DeJuan Blair were effective bench pieces, I'd take that from a late 2nd round pick.
 

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2003
8,287
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
We both agree that Yabu is a waste of roster space. Hopefully, he gets moved, I'd rather have a guy like Konate (or your guy: Tacko Fall) as our 15th player or two- way G-League players. We're talking about a late 2nd round pick or undrafted rookie, so it's not a huge price to pay.

Konate is plus defense, PF size/girth, an 80% FT shooter and an improving 3pt shot. He's definitely not in Ben Wallace league, or even Harrell but he already is a better shooter than both of them.

Big Baby and DeJuan Blair were effective bench pieces, I'd take that from a late 2nd round pick.
I really hope he sticks in the NBA, I was more worried about size. But I was unfamiliar with that BPM metric. I'd love to see him unleashed in an 15-18 minute role where we fine him per foul he doesn't use. He's definitely strong and athletic and as a freshman I think he had only played a few years of organized basketball. So parts of his game that need to develop are still very new skills respectively.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
3,119
I found this article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/hoopshype.com/2018/09/28/nba-draft-and-stash-players/amp/
It still surprises me there doesn’t seem to be a market for pushing your pick back a year like in football and even hockey...too much volatility from year to year or maybe GM’s just don’t fall in love with players after the lottery?
Personally, I'd think nearly every team would want to draft one player a year in the first round. So, those teams which don't have a first round pick, seems like they might be willing to trade a future pick for a pick this year. Of course, you are robbing Peter to pay Paul. There's also the risk of the future pick being better, but I'd think there could be some ways of mitigating the risk.For example, if you are trading a future pick for say - one of the Celtics' late 1sts, just make the pick lottery protected for the next couple of years.
 

bakahump

Well-Known Member
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Jan 8, 2001
6,171
Maine
So if Jaxson Hayes is there at 22, I wouldn't blame them for drafting him even though it appears that TL is very similar.
I love what I have read about Hayes. (of course I loved what I read about TL).

For all the gurus who will be the better pro?

Is there any type of 5 man rotation that would work with both?
 

Big John

lurker
Dec 9, 2016
1,524
In the most recent Hoopshype consensus mock draft, various prognosticators had Ty Jerome at
29, 30, 30. 36, 24, and 28. I'm not sure why these gurus don't take a look at what Brogdon has accomplished, and value Jerome more highly. Jerome shot nearly 40% from three point range and if you don't defend, you don't play for Tony Bennett.