2018 NBA Game Thread

Sam Ray Not

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Meanwhile Orlando is a fun team. The aforementioned Vucevic is great but they also feature guys like Gordon, Bamba, Isaac and Sniper Terrence Ross - all players capable of doing cool NBA things and carrying the team for a stretch. Clifford is a decent coach too.

The cool thing about tonight's game was that the Magic didn't quit when it was evident that a Durant/Thompson avalanche was happening. A lot of teams fade in the face of that dynamic but Orlando kept fighting. They could be a dangerous team down the road.
Goddamn Bamba and Isaac were a combined 5-5 from 3. WTF?!? If they ever become legit 3 pt threats they're gonna be completely impossible to guard.

Ross is less anomalous — he's been a terror all season. Really glad a team like the Rockets, Lakers or Jazz didn't pick him up.

It shouldn't feel good to eke out home wins vs. the Magic and Kings, but both of them have stepped up their games to the point where beating them (without Steph, Dray & Boogie) seems like a minor accomplishment. Plus both game were fast paced and wildly entertaining, in keeping with the general NBA trend this year.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The aforementioned Vucevic is great but they also feature guys like Gordon, Bamba, Isaac and Sniper Terrence Ross - all players capable of doing cool NBA things and carrying the team for a stretch. Clifford is a decent coach too.
The amazing thing about ORL is that the aforementioned Bamba, Isaac, and Ross aren't starting.

Saw that Aaron Gordon left in the third with back stiffness; that was presumably a big loss for ORL.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Weird stat of the day. The "underachieving" and current lottery team Utah Jazz have the best road record in the WC. They have lost 6 of 8 at home as their brutal road stretch to start the year eases up.

Two teams I'm looking at for turnarounds are Utah in the WC once their travel schedule normalizes and the Chicago Bulls who are about to send 3 non-NBA rotation players back to the bench with Markkanen, Dunn, and Portis all returning in the next week or two.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Eh, Dunn isn’t really much of an NBA rotation player either.
When he's been healthy since leaving Chicago he's solidified himself as a starting guard and one of the Bulls two most important pieces with what he brings as their defensive anchor. He really took a leadership role with this team in camp before the knee in Game #1. His big thing now is to stay on the court and get his extension.

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/bulls-dealt-extremely-difficult-blow-losing-kris-dunn-4-6-weeks

“To have him out of the lineup for an extended period, it’s extremely difficult,” Hoiberg said. “When you have a guy who is out there and really made strides over the course of last season and the summer he had and the way he played during training camp, it’s difficult to miss him.”
https://www.blogabull.com/2018/9/11/17846128/how-kris-dunn-became-the-most-important-player-for-this-bulls-season-to-be-a-success

"It appears that deficiency will still be the case heading into this season, definitely in terms of depth. And this is why the starter, Kris Dunn, is the most important Chicago Bull heading into the season.

The same can’t be said at point guard, and that’s what makes Dunn such an invaluable cog to this squad. Losing Dunn for an extended period time is problematic, and something the Bulls haven’t prepared for. This, after Dunn only played in 62% of the team’s games last season due to various injuries.

Perceived-depth alone isn’t the sole reason for Dunn’s enhanced worth. Should he remain injury-free, the skillset of the rest of the roster has also heightened Dunn’s importance to the team."
 
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Sam Ray Not

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Weird stat of the day. The "underachieving" and current lottery team Utah Jazz have the best road record in the WC.
I think you can lift the quotation marks, for now anyway. Yes, they've had a road-heavy schedule against tough opponents (#1 SOS by opponents's winning %), but they also have the sixth-worst point differential in the league (-3.4) for a Pythag record of 8-13.

For a team that most had pegged as a Top 3 seed in the West — ESPN #3 , WaPo #2, B-R #3, SN #3 e.g. — that's pretty clearly underachieving.
 

LondonSox

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Dunn is a BAD offensive player and his defense has had limited impact on the teams he's played for AND he can't remotely stay healthy.

I don't get the optimism tbh

And re Simmons, it's not even that he hasn't improved his shot it's that he hasn't really improved anything. If he's not focusing on his shot... Ok what did you do?

His FT is better but still not even fixed fully his biggest issue
 

benhogan

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To be fair he is the Sixers 3rd option and maybe 4th if you prefer Redick shooting the ball. This is what Simmons is going to be relegated to with Butler around when the ball isn't in his hands.
Yea, you saw this coming to a head when they acquired Butler. And you also aptly noted that LeBron to the Sixers wouldn't be great for Ben. Good call.

You think they are quietly shopping him, since his value may plummet with a reduced role? They could get quite a haul for Ben from a GM that had him as a top 20 player to start the season.
 

BigSoxFan

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Yea, you saw this coming to a head when they acquired Butler. And you also aptly noted that LeBron to the Sixers wouldn't be great for Ben. Good call.

You think they are quietly shopping him, since his value may plummet with a reduced role? They could get quite a haul for Ben from a GM that had him as a top 20 player to start the season.
Problem is that the Sixers want to win now so that takes away any Simmons for picks or young players type deals. After that, not sure who else would be available. Only potential options I could see would be the Wizards with Wall and/or Beal.

Something like Simmons/Chandler/Fultz/Redick (when he can be traded)/picks for Wall/Beal. It would give the Sixers a massive talent upgrade and would allow the Wizards to cut Wall's horrific deal off the books. Not sure Philly's owners would be willing to pay that kind of price though.
 

Kliq

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Can I have all the Ben Simmons stock people are selling? Trading Simmons for John Wall's ridiculous contract looks like one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history.
 

the moops

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Can I have all the Ben Simmons stock people are selling? Trading Simmons for John Wall's ridiculous contract looks like one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history.
This.
Any positive value that Beal carries is completely eliminated with the negative value Wall holds.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Can I have all the Ben Simmons stock people are selling? Trading Simmons for John Wall's ridiculous contract looks like one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history.
Couldn't a deal based around Beal and Simmons along with picks work? Throw Fultz and filler in to make the numbers work. Embiid, Butler, and Beal with Redick shooting with the second unit. Geez Louise!

You'd probably need the Wizards to find a Wall taker first though.
 

BigSoxFan

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Can I have all the Ben Simmons stock people are selling? Trading Simmons for John Wall's ridiculous contract looks like one of the most lopsided trades in NBA history.
Nobody is selling Simmons stock. I was merely pointing out that there isn't much out there if the Sixers felt inclined to trade him, mostly due to the lack of availability of comparable talents. I wouldn't touch Wall's contract with a 10 foot pole if I were Philly but Beal does make some sense for them given his ability to space the floor for Butler and Embiid.
 

Jimbodandy

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Nobody is selling Simmons stock. I was merely pointing out that there isn't much out there if the Sixers felt inclined to trade him, mostly due to the lack of availability of comparable talents. I wouldn't touch Wall's contract with a 10 foot pole if I were Philly but Beal does make some sense for them given his ability to space the floor for Butler and Embiid.
Simmons+ for Beal makes a lot of sense and horrifies me as Celtics fan.
 

jmm57

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I feel like Bradley Beal is being wildly overrated here. He would be a nice fit given his shooting, but I would think Simmons fetches Beal++?

His two best seasons by BPM are 2.2 and 1.7. He has one season with a ortg higher than his drtg. I’m not 100% sold on this generation of nba advanced stats like I am with baseball, but it doesn’t seem like Beal is a great player. He also makes $19 million more next season.

What am I missing?
 

lovegtm

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I feel like Bradley Beal is being wildly overrated here. He would be a nice fit given his shooting, but I would think Simmons fetches Beal++?

His two best seasons by BPM are 2.2 and 1.7. He has one season with a ortg higher than his drtg. I’m not 100% sold on this generation of nba advanced stats like I am with baseball, but it doesn’t seem like Beal is a great player. He also makes $19 million more next season.

What am I missing?
Nothing. Simmons+ for Beal is never happening ever.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The Raptors are just crazy good. Their record is no fluke. They are stacked, deep and can run with anyone. Thursday's game against the Warriors, especially if Golden State gets back a few of its role players in Curry and Green, is going to be must-see NBA tv.
 

chilidawg

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I feel like Bradley Beal is being wildly overrated here. He would be a nice fit given his shooting, but I would think Simmons fetches Beal++?

His two best seasons by BPM are 2.2 and 1.7. He has one season with a ortg higher than his drtg. I’m not 100% sold on this generation of nba advanced stats like I am with baseball, but it doesn’t seem like Beal is a great player. He also makes $19 million more next season.

What am I missing?
Nothing.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Toronto shot 54.5% from deep tonight (18-33) en route to a 122-114 win over the Grizzlies in Memphis. As noted upthread, Memphis led the game by 17 at one point.
 

JakeRae

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The Raptors are just crazy good. Their record is no fluke. They are stacked, deep and can run with anyone. Thursday's game against the Warriors, especially if Golden State gets back a few of its role players in Curry and Green, is going to be must-see NBA tv.
That's what happens when you take a 60 win team, add a top 5 player, subtract a mediocre volume scorer who doesn't defend, and then add a very good defensive oriented wing to top it off.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I feel like Bradley Beal is being wildly overrated here. He would be a nice fit given his shooting, but I would think Simmons fetches Beal++?

His two best seasons by BPM are 2.2 and 1.7. He has one season with a ortg higher than his drtg. I’m not 100% sold on this generation of nba advanced stats like I am with baseball, but it doesn’t seem like Beal is a great player. He also makes $19 million more next season.

What am I missing?
Beal doesn't have to be a great player to be a much MUCH better fit than Simmons playing off Butler and Embiid. No matter how you classify him I don't see how anyone can objectively say he's a real good player and elite scorer in this league.

He'd immediately be among the best 3rd options in the league along with Klay. You can then find a couple pieces at the deadline and like Jimbodandy said it should scare all of us as Celtic fans.
 

Sam Ray Not

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DeJesus needs a sarcasm font.

In other news, it sounds like DeMarcus is ramping up and shooting for a return soon shortly after Christmas (knocking wood) so the Ws could be looking at three new role players.



In the meantime, I’m fully expecting a beatdown on Thursday by the Raptors, who look like the class of the league right now and should be highly motivated to cement that reputation against the scuffling champs.
 

Sam Ray Not

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With the caveats that Rondo was out, Ball was out after tweaking his ankle in the 2nd Q, and games in Denver are never a picnic ... man, did LeBron and the Lakeshow look awful last night, on both ends of the floor.

I’m turning both the “Are the Lakers making the playoffs?” and the “Is LeBron still the best player in the league?” knobs down to below 50%, even knowing that I’ll feel foolish the next time LeBron has a monster game where he looks like the MVP again.

I do think that with *fourteen* teams currently vying for the playoffs in the West (and the Warriors and Nuggets at minimum looking like locks, barring injury), it’s totally plausible that the Lakers could be one of the seven teams who drop out.
 

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There's a good chance Cousins is nothing but a role player though.
If I’m a Warriors opponent, I’m excited to have Cousins come back and start taking shots away from Curry, Thompson, and Durant. I’ll trade his 2’s for their 3’s all day.
 

lovegtm

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The Raptors are just crazy good. Their record is no fluke. They are stacked, deep and can run with anyone. Thursday's game against the Warriors, especially if Golden State gets back a few of its role players in Curry and Green, is going to be must-see NBA tv.
The nice thing is though, the Celtics match up really, really well against them. In both games this year the Raptors have looked like the more optimized/fully-formed team, and the Celtics have looked like the more talented one. They have a lot of bodies to throw at Kawhi, and can really stifle the Raptors bench units.

This is in stark contrast to last year, when the Celtics caught a huge break by getting Philly and then Cleveland instead of Toronto. That Raps team beats that Celtics team in 5 or 6.
 

HomeRunBaker

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If I’m a Warriors opponent, I’m excited to have Cousins come back and start taking shots away from Curry, Thompson, and Durant. I’ll trade his 2’s for their 3’s all day.
If I had to guess right now without even seeing the chemistry live I'd prefer playing the Warriors with Cousins than without. He could change a lot of what they do because he will get touches. I reserve the right to shift positions on this if Cousins seemlessly blends in but this is far from a certainty.
 

Sam Ray Not

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There's a good chance Cousins is nothing but a role player though.
Oh, for sure. I imagine he'll start as that and potentially expand that role as he gets more comfortable in Kerr's system, both on O and D. Whether he ever gets to his usual 25-35 mpg likely depends on (1) health; and (2) how comfortable Kerr is with him as a defender. Given Kerr's general preference for small, switchable Cs, the Warriors' impressive stash of same (Green, Looney, Bell), and the number of teams playing smallball these days, I imagine he'll settle in to more like 15-25 mpg, depending on matchup. Think souped-up Aron Baynes, with the pros and cons of 15 vs. 25 minutes roughly the same as the ones you guys have presented here re Baynes.

The first "role" I can see him filling right out of the gates is the second scorer in those Klay-as-primary-option units that have been stinking it up offensively for the last 2+ years while Steph and KD sit. Kerr has generally preferred not to stagger and Steph and KD's minutes too much (likely to optimize chemistry between them) which has typically resulted of 10-12 mpg of Klay on an island with deferential types like West, Iguodala, and Livingston, forcing him to think too much and make reads and plays, which has never really been his strength. Putting a beastly offensive initiator / focal point like Boogie on the floor with him puts him back in his comfort zone where he can run off screens all day, catch, and launch to his heart's content, with as little dribbling as possible.

Broadly, imagine Boogie combining what David West, Zaza, and JaVale brought last year, just at a higher level (especially in terms of scoring and rebounding). In terms of available minutes, give him most of the 18 mpg Damian Jones is currently getting, and you're basically there.

If I’m a Warriors opponent, I’m excited to have Cousins come back and start taking shots away from Curry, Thompson, and Durant. I’ll trade his 2’s for their 3’s all day.
He's averaged between 35.4 and 37.5% from three the last four seasons, on 5-6 attempts per game, or roughly the same number of as KD. He's also a fantastic and willing passer — 5.4 assists per game last season — so in addition to "taking shots away" from the Big 3, he should create some easier looks for them, out of the high and low post. And when he looks to score, it's not like he's a low-efficiency chucker like Carmelo: he scored his 25.2 ppg last season on .583 true shooting (116.6 pts per 100 possessions), which is basically Klay Thompson in terms of efficiency. (Not Steph or KD, but then pretty much no one is).

Generally (TLDR), I'm not too worried about the offensive impact. The defense is potentially more of a concern, as it is for any traditional center in today's NBA.

(Sorry, this should all go in the "Trouble in Paradise" thread — mods, feel free to move).
 
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HomeRunBaker

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Dunn is a BAD offensive player and his defense has had limited impact on the teams he's played for AND he can't remotely stay healthy.

I don't get the optimism tbh
I mean if you want to ignore a sophomore leap from a young PG already with elite athleticism then yeah you wouldn't get the optimism. His improvement across the board from year one to year two is recognized by my evaluation, his head coach, and while not nearly as important.....by the local media that covers the team. Dunn's 3 areas he's always needed to improve upon are his propensity to foul due to over aggressiveness, the tightening of his handle, and his perimeter shot. He has to stay away from these fluke injuries but he's well on his way as he's already established himself as a starting 1 in the league.

People forget that he's only ran a team as a PG for 3 of the past 6 years since HS due to injury in college, role as a freshman, and role under Thibs. The upside is still there being such a young high level athlete as a PG who generally don't peak until their late 20's.

That concludes my daily glowing review per the moops requirement.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I mean if you want to ignore a sophomore leap from a young PG already with elite athleticism then yeah you wouldn't get the optimism. His improvement across the board from year one to year two is recognized by my evaluation, his head coach, and while not nearly as important.....by the local media that covers the team. Dunn's 3 areas he's always needed to improve upon are his propensity to foul due to over aggressiveness, the tightening of his handle, and his perimeter shot. He has to stay away from these fluke injuries but he's well on his way as he's already established himself as a starting 1 in the league.

People forget that he's only ran a team as a PG for 3 of the past 6 years since HS due to injury in college, role as a freshman, and role under Thibs. The upside is still there being such a young high level athlete as a PG who generally don't peak until their late 20's.

That concludes my daily glowing review per the moops requirement.
It's not even that your reviews are overly glowing, it's just you mention him a lot. And even with a healthy Dunn and Portis, the Bulls are still in contention for a top 5 pick.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's not even that your reviews are overly glowing, it's just you mention him a lot. And even with a healthy Dunn and Portis, the Bulls are still in contention for a top 5 pick.
Yesterday was actually the first time all season he was mentioned and it came in tandem with The return of two other teammates and Utah being two teams that I expect to begin winning more games very soon. I have discussed him much more in the past when I was in daily contact with his father to share interesting tidbits here but I don't see him nearly as much anymore.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yesterday was actually the first time all season he was mentioned and it came in tandem with The return of two other teammates and Utah being two teams that I expect to begin winning more games very soon. I have discussed him much more in the past when I was in daily contact with his father to share interesting tidbits here but I don't see him nearly as much anymore.
A quick search shows you mentioned him on 11/13, 11/14, 11/17, 11/18, 11/26, 11/27, 11/28. I could look back further but yeah...
 

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 6m6 minutes ago
Cleveland has traded Kyle Korver to Utah, league sources tell ESPN.

Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 6m6 minutes ago
Utah will send two future second-round picks to the Cavs for Korver, league sources tell ESPN.

Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 3m3 minutes ago
Utah is also sending Alec Burks to Cavaliers in the deal, league source tells ESPN.
Interesting.

He looks washed to me this season even if HRB disagrees and thinks that pairing with LeBron would somehow reverse his decline. But that isn't happening nor will he now be able to stand in the corner all mannequin-like and fling threes for the 76ers. That said, Utah needs more shooting so its worth it for them to take this shot.

Meanwhile, the Cavs just need to acquire Favors and they will have a good chunk of the Jazz old rotation players of a few seasons ago.
 

Kliq

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Kind of flying under the radar is DeAndre Ayton whose off to a great start; 17-10 and shooting 62 percent. He still needs to get up to speed on defense but looks like a stud.
 

cheech13

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Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 6m6 minutes ago
Cleveland has traded Kyle Korver to Utah, league sources tell ESPN.

Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 6m6 minutes ago
Utah will send two future second-round picks to the Cavs for Korver, league sources tell ESPN.

Adrian Wojnarowski‏ @wojespn 3m3 minutes ago
Utah is also sending Alec Burks to Cavaliers in the deal, league source tells ESPN.
Nice trade for Cleveland. Burks is expiring, so they clear up a little cap space for next year and pick up two second rounders in the process. Burks isn't much of a player, but for a team going nowhere he can eat minutes.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Hmm, I'm kinda surprised Utah didn't make a play for Kevin Love, who seems like a pretty good hoops fit there (better fit alongside Gobert than Favors, e.g.) and if healthy moves the needle more for them than 37.5 year-old Korver will. IIRC, Rubio and Love were close in Minny, too.

I wonder if it was discussed. Favors+Burks for Love would have worked salary-wise, and imho helped out both teams (Cleveland with their tank/rebuild, and Utah with their push to get back in the top half of the West).
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Can there be new threads started here? This one is all over the place in 15 different directions.
Dope man please can I post a brand new thread
The dope man said homeslice, go right ahead


In all seriousness, I am no mod nor am I any type of dope but I would say shoot away. Just like Luka did over Harden tonight. Have we said lately how badly Travis Schlenk screwed up the last draft?

 

Kliq

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I’m only one of about two dozen others who regularly post in this thread, but I actually kind of like that it’s a catch-all for all the stuff that happens in the NBA. Having new threads is nice; but I think we’re sophisticated enough to manage multiple conversations in one thread; even it’s improper message board etiquette.
 

Kliq

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Imagine passing on a player with Trae Young’s potential because you had Kris Dunn? And Dunn’s not better than Spencer Dimwiddie, I’m not even sure he’s better than Trey Burke or Emmanuel Mudiay.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Imagine passing on a player with Trae Young’s potential because you had Kris Dunn? And Dunn’s not better than Spencer Dimwiddie, I’m not even sure he’s better than Trey Burke or Emmanuel Mudiay.
Young looks like he has a ton of bust potential for a pick that high. Imagine if they had Dunn and weren't desperate for a 1 so they could add Doncic instead?

Stop with those names. That is silly talk. The #3 pick in the draft with ton of upside who he breakout 2nd year is going to be passed over by Mudiay? Ok. I take it you didn't pay much attention to the Bulls last year and that's alright. Your opinion differs greatly from many of those who did......including his own coach and Bulls beat writers.
 

Sam Ray Not

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I think there are 6-8 posts up there that could be moved to the Warriors thread, and Kris Dunn at this point should probably have his own forum, but how can an "NBA game thread" not be all over the place in 15 different directions? Or more precisely, 870 different directions, to account for every possible NBA matchup.

Today's observation: the latest Butler trade is looking like a classic win-win.

Also: are the Mavericks now the best basketball team in Texas?