Let's say BB stays on until he retires. What does that mean for the franchise?

Salva135 · Dec 18, 2022

Kliq said:
Belichick still has enough earned trust with me that I don't think he should move on quite yet. But he needs to scrap pretty much his entire staff and start from scratch. The wholes of bad coaching are everyone on this team.

The last play was such a disaster, but don't forget the supreme special teams fuck up that led to the blocked punt in the first half. That shit used to never happen.

Given everyone in the coaching world that was available to him, Belichick chose these guys. What makes you think he's going to pick a better group if given a second chance? He didn't just randomly get unlucky with his staff. They are one and the same with him.

P'tucket rhymes with... · Dec 18, 2022

Kliq said:
Belichick still has enough earned trust with me that I don't think he should move on quite yet. But he needs to scrap pretty much his entire staff and start from scratch. The wholes of bad coaching are everyone on this team.

Seconded. We're about to find out how much BB wants a second (or, counting CLE, third) act. If he can't take a stab at reinventing the team, he should probably go.

Harry Hooper · Dec 18, 2022

More of the same: another special teams disaster today with the blocked punt.

8slim · Dec 18, 2022

BB has this off-season to radically change the direction of this franchise. It’s a tall task. He needs a new offensive coaching staff, a new QB, 3/5ths of a new OL, several new WRs and TEs. Three years post-Brady and we’ve built absolutely nothing on O.

DeJesus Built My Hotrod · Dec 18, 2022

tims4wins said:
Not every franchise has the worst play in NFL
history.

Setting aside where the play ranks in NFL history - where recency bias is kind of huge in the immediate aftermath of a game - and lets put the play in perspective. It was terrible of course but the result is a single regular season loss. Its a very painful one but in the end, its highly unlikely that it derailed a Superbowl contender.

This team is poor on O and good on D. They are a mid team. They are what their record says they are.

In the end, wins and losses matter. Not what pundits or other fans say.

j44thor · Dec 18, 2022

Ed Hillel said:
I actually thought Patricia was pretty good today and the QB play was abysmal tbh.

Burning 2 timeouts when you have 2nd and G from the 1 just to call 2 pass plays, one of which you abort by burning one of the said time outs is not what I'd consider pretty good coaching.

patinorange · Dec 18, 2022

One of the issues that the crazy ending masked is how bad Josh McDaniels coached today. That second half was one weird call after another.
The Raiders tried everything to give the Pats that game.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Dec 18, 2022

SMU_Sox said:
This is circular logic. Sorry SJH but it is.

He basically just ruined the season. I don’t know how else you could possibly label him. He said in the postgame he knew it was tied. So what the fuck did he think he was doing?

You cannot have players being that fucking stupid on the field. The coaching this year has not stopped the numerous idiotic mistakes the players have made.

SMU_Sox · Dec 18, 2022

I think the bigger issue than the idiotic play is how bad the passing offense was against the Raiders defense. This is a bottom 3 pass defense in the league and Mac and their pass catchers (and Mac had protection) couldn't do SHIT against them all day.

Ed Hillel · Dec 18, 2022

j44thor said:
Burning 2 timeouts when you have 2nd and G from the 1 just to call 2 pass plays, one of which you abort by burning one of the said time outs is not what I'd consider pretty good coaching.

That one sequence was terrible, though it mostly happened because Mac missed a wide open receiver on second down that many of us would have hit, but outside of that, the gameplan was very good imo.

Cellar-Door · Dec 18, 2022

Eddie Jurak said:
Do you think they teach players general situational awareness? How to handle themselves in late game situations?

I disagree with the bolded. Are the BB Patriots of the past 2 decades known for freelancing like headless chickens? You don;t attriute that to coaching?

This is a legit point. If BB is 55 or even 65, I think this point carries the day. But with him at 70, and with a team you implicitly acknowledge is bad, how far can you reasonably expect BB to take you even if he still is at the very top of his coaching and personnel game?

Do we think that Jakobi had situational awareness for 4 years, but that becase Bill didn't tell him... "hey if we get into a tied game and someone laterals you the ball with no time, make sure not to throw it 25 yards backwards at the QB" before this game, he forgot everything?

Guys screw up sometimes, they make bad decisions, you go over it on tape and hope it doesn't happen again. If it keeps happening, you find a way to move on from that guy in the offseason.
The real answer is honestly probably pretty simple.... Good teams make fewer mistakes because they are more capable of executing simple things because they have talent and play from ahead more. Guys make the most mistakes when they are trying to make something happen because the team can't just execute.

RedOctober3829 · Dec 18, 2022

The problem with the coaching staff is that this team has played dumb football for the better part of 2 years now. Penalties, turnovers, mental mistakes have infested the team for a while now. It all comes back to Bill because he himself said it does. The worst decision of his career was to put Patricia and Judge in charge of the offense. I’ve been saying this ever since it was determined they were in those roles.

At the very least, significant staff changes need to be made on offense and ST. I am not confident that he will be amenable to these asks so yeah I think at least it’s a non-zero possibility that Bill’s job is in question.

Ed Hillel · Dec 18, 2022

SMU_Sox said:
I think the bigger issue than the idiotic play is how bad the passing offense was against the Raiders defense. This is a bottom 3 pass defense in the league and Mac and their pass catchers (and Mac had protection) couldn't do SHIT against them all day.

When you watch the All 22, you'll see it wasn't the receivers. I went back and rewound a lot during the game, and Mac was missing throws and not throwing to wide open guys all over the field all day.

8slim · Dec 18, 2022

SMU_Sox said:
I think the bigger issue than the idiotic play is how bad the passing offense was against the Raiders defense. This is a bottom 3 pass defense in the league and Mac and their pass catchers (and Mac had protection) couldn't do SHIT against them all day.

The offense is broken beyond repair. They need a new QB, new OC, entirely new WR & TE corps, and a rebuilt OL.

GreyisGone · Dec 18, 2022

Ed Hillel said:
That one sequence was terrible, though it mostly happened because Mac missed a wide open receiver on second down that many of us would have hit, but outside of that, the gameplan was very good imo.

Their QB finished the game with 3.6 yards per attempt. In the NFL in 2022. Vs the worst pass defense by DVOA in the NFL. It’s hard to be worse.

Ed Hillel · Dec 18, 2022

RedOctober3829 said:
At the very least, significant staff changes need to be made on offense and ST. I am not confident that he will be amenable to these asks so yeah I think at least it’s a non-zero possibility that Bill’s job is in question.

I thought he made it pretty clear in his interview last week with the "now is not the time to change the entire coaching staff on offense" that changes are coming in the offseason.

SMU_Sox · Dec 18, 2022

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
He basically just ruined the season. I don’t know how else you could possibly label him. He said in the postgame he knew it was tied. So what the fuck did he think he was doing?

You cannot have players being that fucking stupid on the field.

You're right. He ruined the season. It was a catastrophically dumb play. But he is still the best WR on the team. Sometimes your best guy can make a terrible fuck-up. Who do you think is better? Agholor had some tremendous fuckups. Parker has ran the wrong route in the end zone leading to an INT. Every WR on this team has made a colossal fuck up this season.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Dec 18, 2022

Ed Hillel said:
That one sequence was terrible, though it mostly happened because Mac missed a wide open receiver on second down that many of us would have hit, but outside of that, the gameplan was very good imo.

I thought the 2 point conversion play was beautifully done.

JokersWildJIMED · Dec 18, 2022

SMU_Sox said:
I think the bigger issue than the idiotic play is how bad the passing offense was against the Raiders defense. This is a bottom 3 pass defense in the league and Mac and their pass catchers (and Mac had protection) couldn't do SHIT against them all day.

This. The terrible pats beat writers then ask Mac 20 questions about the lateral and basically nothing about his horrific showing against one of the worst defenses in the league.

8slim · Dec 18, 2022

Ed Hillel said:
I thought he made it pretty clear in his interview last week with the "now is not the time to change the entire coaching staff on offense" that changes are coming in the offseason.

He’ll probably make Patricia the WR and special teams coach too.

jose melendez · Dec 18, 2022

I missed almost all of this game, blessedly, but whatever else one can say about this team, it's clearly poorly coached. They make mental mistakes all the time in all phases of the game. BB over the years has earned the right to another year to try and fix this, but that's it.

patinorange · Dec 18, 2022

SMU_Sox said:
I think the bigger issue than the idiotic play is how bad the passing offense was against the Raiders defense. This is a bottom 3 pass defense in the league and Mac and their pass catchers (and Mac had protection) couldn't do SHIT against them all day.

I thought the O line played one of their better games today. Zero sacks (I think) and the run game was solid. Mac was borderline awful for much of the game. And the receivers...Yuck

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Dec 18, 2022

SMU_Sox said:
You're right. He ruined the season. It was a catastrophically dumb play. But he is still the best WR on the team. Sometimes your best guy can make a terrible fuck-up. Who do you think is better? Agholor had some tremendous fuckups. Parker has ran the wrong route in the end zone leading to an INT. Every WR on this team has made a colossal fuck up this season.

Running the wrong route or dropping passes are at least errors of commission in the heat of battle. What Meyers did today far outstrips anything any other player in the league has done this season, and it would be madness not to consider it affecting his playing time going forward.

A player displaying that much of an extreme lack of judgement is not a player you can trust on the field.

OurF'ingCity · Dec 18, 2022

RedOctober3829 said:
The problem with the coaching staff is that this team has played dumb football for the better part of 2 years now. Penalties, turnovers, mental mistakes have infested the team for a while now. It all comes back to Bill because he himself said it does. The worst decision of his career was to put Patricia and Judge in charge of the offense. I’ve been saying this ever since it was determined they were in those roles.

At the very least, significant staff changes need to be made on offense and ST. I am not confident that he will be amenable to these asks so yeah I think at least it’s a non-zero possibility that Bill’s job is in question.

Yeah this is right - this game in a vacuum is not on BB, but when you have an increasingly Jets-esque run of brain farts, stupid penalties, etc., the buck has to stop with BB.

But BB is the best coach in NFL history and I think you give him the benefit of the doubt to try to fix things, but another year of similar shit and conversations start needing to happen about his future.

RedOctober3829 · Dec 18, 2022

Ed Hillel said:
I thought he made it pretty clear in his interview last week with the "now is not the time to change the entire coaching staff on offense" that changes are coming in the offseason.

Yes he said now is not the time, but his whole thinking of putting those two in charge was continuity. He was afraid to hire someone who may leave. So if he wants continuity when everybody else sees it’s not working what happens next?

IdiotKicker · Dec 18, 2022

kenneycb said:
I don’t like making change for change sake. This post screams that to me given they’re a borderline playoff team that made the playoffs last year and I don’t really think everyone here would be okay with bottoming out despite how sexy it’s become to intentionally suck.

Im not saying to bottom out. I’m saying if they have talent, as you suggest, and which I agree with, I’d like to see them find a coach who can maximize that talent in ways it isn’t today. Like, what if BB and the way he builds and deploys his staff is like Cassidy on the Bruins last year? We thought he was fine, but then we see Montgomery come in and the level that some guys are playing at this year compared to the last couple. That’s what I’m getting at. BB is fine. But if you have a ton of defensive talent and even a few guys on offense, shouldn’t we be able to get more?

I don’t think a BB-led team is ever going to go 4-13 or anything like that. He’s too good to end up like that. But for the last 3 years, they’re a middling high-variance team that is increasingly sloppy and lacking direction in two phases of the game. And given the short time BB has left, I don’t see the case for a “We shouldn’t have given up so soon” because he’s not going to go to NYJ and rip off 20 years and 6 SBs. He’ll have a couple years and then be done. So I’m wondering if we can find someone who can unlock the next level for this team that I think is there and build from that, rather than repeating the last few years where we see between 7-10 wins depending on how the chips fall.

Harry Hooper · Dec 18, 2022

Ed Hillel said:
I thought he made it pretty clear in his interview last week with the "now is not the time to change the entire coaching staff on offense" that changes are coming in the offseason.

You are attaching more meaning to that response than seeing it as essentially BB's standard way of moving on from a question.

Mystic Merlin · Dec 18, 2022

Harry Hooper said:
You are attaching more meaning to that response than seeing it as essentially BB's standard way of moving on from a question.

Really?

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Dec 18, 2022

Also, Meyers’ idiocy overshadows a bigger point: why on EARTH weren’t they running a Hail Mary instead of a goddamn draw play? THAT is on BB. Throw the fucking ball into the end zone!

Section15Box113 · Dec 18, 2022

Ed Hillel said:
I thought he made it pretty clear in his interview last week with the "now is not the time to change the entire coaching staff on offense" that changes are coming in the offseason.

That’s how I read it as well.

IdiotKicker · Dec 18, 2022

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Running the wrong route or dropping passes are at least errors of commission in the heat of battle. What Meyers did today far outstrips anything any other player in the league has done this season, and it would be madness not to consider it affecting his playing time going forward.

A player displaying that much of an extreme lack of judgement is not a player you can trust on the field.

Why? It’s literally never a problem that will happen again for him. Why penalize him for something that he literally can never hurt the team with again? It makes no sense given the context of it.

Ferm Sheller · Dec 18, 2022

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Also, Meyers’ idiocy overshadows a bigger point: why on EARTH weren’t they running a Hail Mary instead of a goddamn draw play? THAT is on BB. Throw the fucking ball into the end zone!

I think BB just said "can't throw it that far", did I hear right?

Ed Hillel · Dec 18, 2022

Harry Hooper said:
You are attaching more meaning to that response than seeing it as essentially BB's standard way of moving on from a question.

It was actually far more of a response than you usually get from Belichick, who would normally tapdance around it by blaming everyone as a unit. It seemed very clear to me he is not pleased.

jose melendez · Dec 18, 2022

Then fucking kneel.

Harry Hooper · Dec 18, 2022

Mystic Merlin said:
Really?

I'm saying it certainly fits the typical BB killing a discussion of a subject he doesn't want to get into. Now, he may well put in some changes in the offseason, but I don't think his response is telling us that he's definitely making those changes on offense.

SMU_Sox · Dec 18, 2022

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Running the wrong route or dropping passes are at least errors of commission in the heat of battle. What Meyers did today far outstrips anything any other player in the league has done this season, and it would be madness not to consider it affecting his playing time going forward.

A player displaying that much of an extreme lack of judgement is not a player you can trust on the field.

If he had a history of making mistakes like this, yes. We probably won't see this one the same way. I don't think Meyers is going to make a mistake like this again. Would you really cut him? Or would you bench him for a game? Reduce his role? I don't know what I would do. Maybe bench him for a quarter? I might just not do anything aside from let him know this can never happen again. It's the kind of thing that is so uncharacteristic for Jakobi. He's usually such a smart and sound player.

Super Nomario · Dec 18, 2022

Harry Hooper said:
You are attaching more meaning to that response than seeing it as essentially BB's standard way of moving on from a question.

This is my read on it, too. The full context:

"I think we need to do what we're doing better. I don't think at this point making a lot of dramatic changes; it's too hard to do that," Belichick said in his weekly interview on WEEI's "The Greg Hill Show."

"If we can just do, consistently, what we're doing, I think we'll be all right. We just haven't been able to have enough consistency. And that's hurt us. It's not one thing. One time it's one thing. Next time it's something else. We just have to play and coach more consistently."

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Dec 18, 2022

IdiotKicker said:
Why? It’s literally never a problem that will happen again for him. Why penalize him for something that he literally can never hurt the team with again? It makes no sense given the context of it.

It shows an extreme lack of judgement and such a lack of judgement will likely crop up again in another situation. It shows Meyers can’t be trusted.

Ed Hillel · Dec 18, 2022

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Also, Meyers’ idiocy overshadows a bigger point: why on EARTH weren’t they running a Hail Mary instead of a goddamn draw play? THAT is on BB. Throw the fucking ball into the end zone!

QB can't reach. Probably should just kneel, but then again Stevenson did make it somewhat interesting. Maybe he gets a facemask or something and you get another play for a fg. But a kneel is perfectly reasonable there as well.

Section15Box113 · Dec 18, 2022

So BB just said Mac “couldn’t throw it that far” re: no Hail Mary. So 60-65 yards in the air is out of the question?

Shelterdog · Dec 18, 2022

jose melendez said:
Then fucking kneel.

Honestly a draw is basically a kneel with a two percent chance maybe of the guy breaking it.

Smiling Joe Hesketh · Dec 18, 2022

SMU_Sox said:
If he had a history of making mistakes like this, yes. We probably won't see this one the same way. I don't think Meyers is going to make a mistake like this again. Would you really cut him? Or would you bench him for a game? Reduce his role? I don't know what I would do. Maybe bench him for a quarter? I might just not do anything aside from let him know this can never happen again. It's the kind of thing that is so uncharacteristic for Jakobi. He's usually such a smart and sound player.

I would start by benching him for a good long while. A game at least.

If there are no consequences to mistakes then mistakes will never be fixed. We haven’t problem with an OL getting benched for poor play, I see no reason why Meyers should be immune to it as well.

brandonchristensen · Dec 18, 2022

This isn't on BB - it's on a flukey historically bad play that'll never be duplicated.

That being said, they probably lose in OT too.

8slim · Dec 18, 2022

RedOctober3829 said:
Yes he said now is not the time, but his whole thinking of putting those two in charge was continuity. He was afraid to hire someone who may leave. So if he wants continuity when everybody else sees it’s not working what happens next?

My fear is that Bill’s going to say now that Patricia has a year under his belt he’s ready to blossom next season. I feel that coming.

kenneycb · Dec 18, 2022

Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
It shows an extreme lack of judgement and such a lack of judgement will likely crop up again in another situation. It shows Meyers can’t be trusted.

Tom Brady threw an INT from his ass before that cost them a game against Miami that was a monumentally dumb play that showed extreme lack of judgment. I’m going to assume you didn’t want him benched after that. So I ask, what is the imaginary line / criteria you’re making up for when to bench / not bench a guy after a mistake?

soxhop411 · Dec 18, 2022

Ferm Sheller said:
I think BB just said "can't throw it that far", did I hear right?

Sort of
Full press conference below
View: https://youtu.be/wdxmCrzKNtg?t=1732

Red Averages · Dec 18, 2022

BernieRicoBoomer said:
You people are nuts.

Facts.

P'tucket rhymes with... · Dec 18, 2022

Eddie Jurak said:
I think that the Patriots coaches have, systematically, for 2 decades, coached the team on "particularly bad times to turn the ball over."

"Lateraling the ball comes with a huge risk of turnover" is another topic that I would epxect the Pats pats players have been coached on.

Years ago I heard BB talking about how the possibility of his 2-point offense giving up a 2 point touchdown affects the plays he calls and his coaching of the unit.

I'm surprised you think the Patriots coaches under BB don't pay attention to things like this.

Go, Malcom, etc..,etc.

Let's say BB stays on until he retires. What does that mean for the franchise?

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