It's pretty cool he was able to get a graduate degree in virology and do a fellowship at the CDC while also playing minor league ball.Give Duran a break, he’s been researching this for 2 1/2 years now.
I know a shit ton of people who have gotten covid. The only ones whoweren'twere hospitalize ordidn'tdied were not vaxxed.
There are times when one shouldn't hit "post reply" before proof reading. This was one of those times. Cleaned things up a bit, but left the original mess visible for ridicule.Triple negatives in that sentence. Stated positively, what happened to the “shit ton of people who have gotten Covid”!who you know?
He's worlds different from where he was last season. The additional time spent in AAA seems to have benefitted him greatly in allowing him to mature (in a baseball sense) and gain a better understanding of the type of player he has a chance to be. That early power display last season didn't translate vs MLB pitching and he struggled. His baserunning was questionable as was outfield play. SSS, but I think he looks a little better in the OF so far this year. Also. it looks like Kike's rehab has been shut down for a while so hopefully RFsnyder continues to contribute as we may see him leading off in Toronto.I was coming into this thread to write about how different Duran has looked this year compared to last. I was going to say how much more confident and aggressive and fun he seems. Alas...
Yeah, I'm hoping to move away from topics that we've been asked to avoid outside of V&NSuggested edit: “…while refusing to get his first.”
What do you think the odds are that Ryan Fitzgerald has been feeding him anti-vax articles, figuring there's an outside chance it'll get him a shot (pun intended) in the Bigs?
Versatile Triple-A prospect Ryan Fitzgerald — a former indie leaguer who has clawed his way to Triple-A Worcester, where his performance has him on the brink of the big leagues — likewise would not be a candidate to join the Sox in Canada because he remains unvaccinated
Well then. Maybe that will quell some of the desperate cries to bring him up. More food for thought, his slash line in June: .167/.257/.288/.545 over 74 PA.
From Speier's Globe article focusing on Duran yesterday, there is this quote from Fitzgerald: “'If I miss my [big league] shot because of that, it is what it is,' Fitzgerald said recently. 'I’m not going to think twice about it.'” Fitzgerald is a guy who somehow worked his way up from the Independent Leagues, grinded through Low A, A+ and AA, now on brink of being called up. I don't know enough about the day to day per diems and salaries of minor leagues anymore, but I think it's fair to say the financial ramifications for a call up for him would be somewhat life changing. And he still wont get vaccinated. Leaving my own opinions (and trying to avoid any V&N-ing) aside, with a mentality like that I just don't see what more the Red Sox organization could've done to change minds. Or, I guess, I'll agree they could've done more...but per that Fitzgerald quote I just don't think it would've done any good.I'm deducing the Sox team didn't bring in a MD with a bag of shots, paired with the sobbing widow and orphan of someone who died young from COVID, and a second dude with chronic lung problems. Or just Eduardo Rodriguez.
Then line everyone up publicly and get 'em jabbed in the arm, WWII basic-training style. Public, not hand-holding private. No force, just heavy and public moral and peer suasion.
I'm kind of stunned they didn't do it as soon as the vaccine came out.
And the failure to do that (or the equivalent) is starting to look like an organization-wide failure of messaging and personnel management.
They get millions to play an adult sport, and none of them have to see the bodies of their family, friends, and co-workers blown apart by munitions.for a lack of a better term, go to war with?
I have no ideas what the NYY did to bring this about, but I know that some of their players were not vaccinated early on but by the time they had a trip to Toronto nobody had to stay home.Are there any organizations that strong armed their players into getting vaccinated?
Sox should re-sign Craig Breslow so Jarren has someone to talk to on his level.It's pretty cool he was able to get a graduate degree in virology and do a fellowship at the CDC while also playing minor league ball.
That's a superhero background if I ever heard it... Or supervillain.
An organization that requires players to shave and get Marine's haircuts is going to have more conformists than one who celebrates idiots and beards...I have no ideas what the NYY did to bring this about, but I know that some of their players were not vaccinated early on but by the time they had a trip to Toronto nobody had to stay home.
and less championships in the last 20 yearsAn organization that requires players to shave and get Marine's haircuts is going to have more conformists than one who celebrates idiots and beards...
less hair; fewer championships. fewer hairs; less success.and less championships in the last 20 years
If Houck is the closer… then you can’t work around it. Or shouldn’tI fully expect Duran to be traded next month. He’s looked really good at the plate these past 10 games, and I hope it’s restored some of the stock he lost during last year’s call up. I think after the emergence of Cordero and Ceddanne Rafaela, who needs 40-man protection this offseason, Duran looks pretty expendable. I’d prefer a make-good one-year deal for Kiké in 2023 and hand CF to Rafaela in 2024 over playing Duran there.
As for the jab — the Sox can work around a pitcher like Houck being unvaccinated (I guess), but you can’t work around a starting outfielder who is never available to play on the road against one of your biggest division rivals. The Sox need to make a 3-for-1 or 4-for-1 deal soon to ease the 40-man crunch, and I expect Duran will be part of that.
I agree.If Houck is the closer… then you can’t work around it. Or shouldn’t
Franchy’s underlying stats are encouraging, but he’s still got a 0.0 WAR and a 227/302/379.Next years OF currently has Verdugo and Franchy and Duran, he doesn’t look expendable to me at all. Rafaela is interesting but certainly can’t count on him for a big role next year, can you?I fully expect Duran to be traded next month. He’s looked really good at the plate these past 10 games, and I hope it’s restored some of the stock he lost during last year’s call up. I think after the emergence of Cordero and Ceddanne Rafaela, who needs 40-man protection this offseason, Duran looks pretty expendable. I’d prefer a make-good one-year deal for Kiké in 2023 and hand CF to Rafaela in 2024 over playing Duran there.
As for the jab — the Sox can work around a pitcher like Houck being unvaccinated (I guess), but you can’t work around a starting outfielder who is never available to play on the road against one of your biggest division rivals. The Sox need to make a 3-for-1 or 4-for-1 deal soon to ease the 40-man crunch, and I expect Duran will be part of that.
and less championships in the last 20 years
Fewer.
less hair; fewer championships. fewer hairs; less success.
#OneTrueKingFewer
Absolutely. As players, I’m very bullish on Houck and have become convinced that Duran is for real. That said…. I’m done with them. A NL team will gladly take them and likely part with some significant value.It's been noted before, but the margin of error to gain one of the wildcards is likely going to be very slim. If they get swept or lose series up there, and those losses can be attributed to not being able to field their best possible lineups, then the dunder-shits who caused that deserve an avalanche of scorn and criticism from fans and media. And do not deserve a future with this organization. Let them do their research elsewhere.
If he never makes the major leagues, I bet he'll think about it a lot as he gets older.From Speier's Globe article focusing on Duran yesterday, there is this quote from Fitzgerald: “'If I miss my [big league] shot because of that, it is what it is,' Fitzgerald said recently. 'I’m not going to think twice about it.'”
Or he’ll just add it to the list of why the world sucks and be that much more bitter.If he never makes the major leagues, I bet he'll think about it a lot as he gets older.
I doubt they trade Duran, though I wouldn't necessarily oppose it. He's clearly a moron, but he has done the work to remake himself, more than once now, as a prospect. He showed up in pro ball as a burner with little power who put up insane numbers in the low minors by putting the ball on the ground and beating out hits. When that proved unworkable against the advanced pitching and defenses in the high minors, he reworked his approached and began demonstrating lots of in-game power. When that proved unworkable against the even more advanced pitching in the majors, he went back to the minors and appears to have remade his approach yet again. Right now he looks pretty comfortable as a gap hitter with good line-drive power and insane speed. His defense remains below average, and it's hard to see him sticking long term in CF, or RF in Fenway, which does reduce his value. But he has proven himself both talented and humble enough to change his approach as needed. I think the Sox will see value in that combination of talent and makeup and hold onto Duran to see whether it all pans out longer term.I fully expect Duran to be traded next month. He’s looked really good at the plate these past 10 games, and I hope it’s restored some of the stock he lost during last year’s call up.
Sorry to belabor the point, but the issue isn't really this any longer. I agree with you that he's looking like "a keeper" and one that will provide financial flexibility to help keep Devers, X, etc... while adding other potential higher priced FA's. The issue here is that as an every day player (which even Houck has to be considered as a "closer") they may not be available for 2...3... even possibly 4 games in Toronto in a playoff series. That's crazy. It's a major handicap to the team and needs to be addressed. The two of them together could likely be packaged with some mL talent (Groome) and Dalbec to bring in a great BP arm to replace Houck and adequate ML players to step in and help.I doubt they trade Duran, though I wouldn't necessarily oppose it. He's clearly a moron, but he has done the work to remake himself, more than once now, as a prospect. He showed up in pro ball as a burner with little power who put up insane numbers in the low minors by putting the ball on the ground and beating out hits. When that proved unworkable against the advanced pitching and defenses in the high minors, he reworked his approached and began demonstrating lots of in-game power. When that proved unworkable against the even more advanced pitching in the majors, he went back to the minors and appears to have remade his approach yet again. Right now he looks pretty comfortable as a gap hitter with good line-drive power and insane speed. His defense remains below average, and it's hard to see him sticking long term in CF, or RF in Fenway, which does reduce his value. But he has proven himself both talented and humble enough to change his approach as needed. I think the Sox will see value in that combination of talent and makeup and hold onto Duran to see whether it all pans out longer term.
I personally have a very low opinion of anti-vaxxers. But there is no way the Sox are moving on from several years of control of a potentially useful player just because he wouldn't be available for away games in one postseason series against a team that they might not even face. If Jarren Duran gets traded, that will not be the reason.Sorry to belabor the point, but the issue isn't really this any longer. I agree with you that he's looking like "a keeper" and one that will provide financial flexibility to help keep Devers, X, etc... while adding other potential higher priced FA's. The issue here is that as an every day player (which even Houck has to be considered as a "closer") they may not be available for 2...3... even possibly 4 games in Toronto in a playoff series. That's crazy. It's a major handicap to the team and needs to be addressed. The two of them together could likely be packaged with some mL talent (Groome) and Dalbec to bring in a great BP arm to replace Houck and adequate ML players to step in and help.
These are all good points, and you may be right. I just think the offensive and defensive profile is worth more to another team than the Sox. In a way, I see Duran’s upside as a Carl Crawford-type but without the (Tampa-era) defense, except we already have our own cost-controlled Brett Gardner in left field.I doubt they trade Duran, though I wouldn't necessarily oppose it. He's clearly a moron, but he has done the work to remake himself, more than once now, as a prospect. He showed up in pro ball as a burner with little power who put up insane numbers in the low minors by putting the ball on the ground and beating out hits. When that proved unworkable against the advanced pitching and defenses in the high minors, he reworked his approached and began demonstrating lots of in-game power. When that proved unworkable against the even more advanced pitching in the majors, he went back to the minors and appears to have remade his approach yet again. Right now he looks pretty comfortable as a gap hitter with good line-drive power and insane speed. His defense remains below average, and it's hard to see him sticking long term in CF, or RF in Fenway, which does reduce his value. But he has proven himself both talented and humble enough to change his approach as needed. I think the Sox will see value in that combination of talent and makeup and hold onto Duran to see whether it all pans out longer term.
I'd be OK with two Brett Gardners. What would you be looking for in a return? I honestly have no idea how Duran is viewed by other teams.These are all good points, and you may be right. I just think the offensive and defensive profile is worth more to another team than the Sox. In a way, I see Duran’s upside as a Carl Crawford-type but without the (Tampa-era) defense, except we already have our own cost-controlled Brett Gardner in left field.
Duran should probably play in a park that doesn’t have a deep right field fence. The Sox should probably have a bigger bat in left field, or a guy with a better arm. The Sox should probably not have a player who misses 7 regular season games a year against a team they’re likely to battle tooth and nail for a playoff spot. There’s a lot about Duran that suggests he’d be a good major league, but the road may be tougher in Boston. I don’t think Rick Porcello would have won a Cy Young playing for the Colorado Rockies.
When a team shops a prospect or young player, other teams take notice and wonder what’s wrong with the guy. You never get full value in that sort of situation. So unless the FO had strong reservations about Duran before, I don’t think his vaccine status should prompt them to move on.These are all good points, and you may be right. I just think the offensive and defensive profile is worth more to another team than the Sox. In a way, I see Duran’s upside as a Carl Crawford-type but without the (Tampa-era) defense, except we already have our own cost-controlled Brett Gardner in left field.
Duran should probably play in a park that doesn’t have a deep right field fence. The Sox should probably have a bigger bat in left field, or a guy with a better arm. The Sox should probably not have a player who misses 7 regular season games a year against a team they’re likely to battle tooth and nail for a playoff spot. There’s a lot about Duran that suggests he’d be a good major league, but the road may be tougher in Boston. I don’t think Rick Porcello would have won a Cy Young playing for the Colorado Rockies.
This is a thought I keep having... As the lethality (decreased) and omnipresence (almost there) of Covid begins to match that of the flu and other diseases we "live with," Canada is going to decide allowing unvaccinated is something they'll have to live with too.The other thing about the vaccine is that there's at least a reasonable chance that Canada's entry restrictions won't last beyond this season. So, yeah, for 2022 the lack of vax is a thorn, but in the long-term picture probably less so.
Next year won't everyone play everyone else the same amount of times? I might be mistaken bur I read around the time of the labor agreement that starting in 2023 the unbalanced schedules were being done away with so that should conceivably broaden the list of suitors for the players. Of course sooner or later Canada will probably change the the rules for entering the country.Absolutely. As players, I’m very bullish on Houck and have become convinced that Duran is for real. That said…. I’m done with them. A NL team will gladly take them and likely part with some significant value.
Not quite. Each team will play all 29 other teams (unlike now where it's selective interleague games). But teams will still play their divisional foes more often than other teams.Next year won't everyone play everyone else the same amount of times? I might be mistaken bur I read around the time of the labor agreement that starting in 2023 the unbalanced schedules were being done away with so that should conceivably broaden the list of suitors for the players. Of course sooner or later Canada will probably change the the rules for entering the country.
Sorry if this is too V and N ish but could any of our Canadian posters comment on how likely it is that Canada changes its policy and allows unvaccinated athletes into the country? Would it happen by the end of the season? This might have an effect on Duran's or Houck's trade value if teams think that the restrictions might be liftedNot quite. Each team will play all 29 other teams (unlike now where it's selective interleague games). But teams will still play their divisional foes more often than other teams.
It will be:
14 games against divisional opponents (7 home, 7 away)
6 games against league opponents (3 home, 3 away)
4 games against interleague "rival" (2 home, 2 away)
3 games against every other team in opposing league (half home, half away, switching each year)
So starting next year, eight NL teams will visit Toronto instead of three, plus all 14 AL teams.
If we're assuming that the Sox want to trade them because of their vax status, wouldn't it stand to reason that they wouldn't want to trade them if there was a good chance Canada would change its policy before the end of the season (or even before next season)? Basically what I'm saying is that I don't think any teams have an inside line on what Canada might do, and therefore it isn't a factor at all in the trade-ability of any player.Sorry if this is too V and N ish but could any of our Canadian posters comment on how likely it is that Canada changes its policy and allows unvaccinated athletes into the country? Would it happen by the end of the season? This might have an effect on Duran's or Houck's trade value if teams think that the restrictions might be lifted