More like 2a or 2b.Agreed, and SGA would be a spectacular fit next to them. But he would also be the third guy in that set-up...
More like 2a or 2b.Agreed, and SGA would be a spectacular fit next to them. But he would also be the third guy in that set-up...
At worst a 2A or 2B. More likely a clear # 2 than Brown, IMO. SGA just put up an incredible age 22 season. Not Jayson Tatum like, but most assuredly way better than 22 year old Jaylen Brown.More like 2a or 2b.
Yeah, I agree. I just didn't feel like having that argument right nowMore likely a clear # 2 than Brown, IMO.
Hogan top 10 summer wish list, while retaining Brown, in descending order:Now we just need to find a magical 3 or 4 way trade that gets us SGA without giving up Brown...
May be a hot take - but I'd rather have SGA.SGA would sure be a nice fit (pretty much any star would fit, the benefit of having two wings as your best players), but there isn't any conceivable way to get him without giving up Brown. As long as we're wishing for young stars on the right timeline as Tatum/Brown, might as well wish that Donovan Mitchell gets tired of disappointing in the playoffs and living in SLC and forces a move to be with some good friends in Boston.
I think I would too (I've definitely had enough of small guards that get picked on defensively in the playoffs when it matters), but I could conceive of a scenario in which Mitchell forces his way out of Utah and wants to play with Brown and Tatum. I can't see that with SGA, so the latter is completely unobtainable without Brown while Mitchell is merely unbelievably unlikely.May be a hot take - but I'd rather have SGA.
Let's make this happen... we'll need 4 teams because we need to get the Thunder Cade, we need to get the Warriors win now pieces & we need to intrigue the Pistons into doing this...I think I would too (I've definitely had enough of small guards that get picked on defensively in the playoffs when it matters), but I could conceive of a scenario in which Mitchell forces his way out of Utah and wants to play with Brown and Tatum. I can't see that with SGA, so the latter is completely unobtainable without Brown while Mitchell is merely unbelievably unlikely.
The most impressive part of this whole thing is that you did this on your phone.I tried to approximately match salaries because I didn't feel like getting into trade exceptions, cap room blah blah blah, I didn't get into the Thunder's infinite supply of 2nd rounders, & I didn't move Wiseman & make this one step bigger, but I'm pretty sure I've wasted enough time on it on my phone for 1 evening.
Yea, I'm extremely jealous of those phone skills considering I make a half dozenThe most impressive part of this whole thing is that you did this on your phone.
[/oldguy]
The creativity on this thread re: SGA trades is off-the-charts. Here in OKC, few people believe that SGA is going anywhere (despite various rumors).Now we just need to find a magical 3 or 4 way trade that gets us SGA without giving up Brown...
I think you misspelled "only". All my posts are on my phone for work reasons.The most impressive part of this whole thing is that you did this on your phone.
[/oldguy]
Listening to a Ringer pod right now & KOC pitched:The creativity on this thread re: SGA trades if off-the-charts. Here in OKC, few people believe that SGA is going anywhere (despite various rumors).
I think you misspelled "only". All my posts are on my phone for work reasons.
Listening to a Ringer pod right now & KOC pitched:
Thunder get #1
Pistons get #4, SGA, '23 Heat 1st, '24 Clippers 1st
Raptors get #6 & #16
SGA will be on a max soon. Cade is dirt cheap for numerous years then will be on a max. Lots of years of control while OKC is several years away from competing for a playoff spot.I must be really overrating SGA, because I think he's just a valuable as the #1 pick all by himself. Shot 50.8% from the field and 41.8% from 3 on high volume (23.7 PPG), and he's a decent rebounder (4.7 RPG). Is already decent on D and has the length to become very good. What am I missing?
The odds are he isn't going anywhere.The creativity on this thread re: SGA trades if off-the-charts. Here in OKC, few people believe that SGA is going anywhere (despite various rumors).
He’s three years in, hasn’t made an All-Star team or All-NBA team, and put up his best numbers on a bad team. Even if you really like him he doesn’t profile as a guy who is going to be a top ten player in the league, and that’s what you want with the #1 overall pick.I must be really overrating SGA, because I think he's just a valuable as the #1 pick all by himself. Shot 50.8% from the field and 41.8% from 3 on high volume (23.7 PPG), and he's a decent rebounder (4.7 RPG). Is already decent on D and has the length to become very good. What am I missing?
SGA will be on a max soon. Cade is dirt cheap for numerous years then will be on a max. Lots of years of control while OKC is several years away from competing for a playoff spot.
Cade has alpha potential, while SGA is a great 2nd or 3rd wheel.
Stuff like this makes you question even “respected” guys like KOC. Holy Jesus.More from that Ringer pod...
KOC pitches Jaylen/TL/RL/2023 1st/2027 1st for Beal.
JKM says "no".
I wouldn't do that deal for Beal unless Tatum said he was sitting out forever if we didn't...
If you think Cade has a decent shot of being a top 5 player in the league, giving up 6 in a 5 player draft to toggle from SGA to Cade is a fine upside play. It also helps a ton with the tank this year. SGA isn't going to want to sit out forever & no matter how good Cade will become, he won't be as good as SGA this year.But it's not like OKC is teeming with options better than SGA to give max money. And the #1 pick isn't chump change (about 10 mil a year before they too become more expensive). If they make the trade straight up, what can they do with the difference --overpay for Evan Fournier? Yay.
Figure every team as 3 max slots on their roster -- that's 90 total, but the number of guys who are truly worth that is much lower. And the number that are available to a team like OKC is even lower. I agree that Cade does have a higher upside, but you'd better be really sure he's going to come close to it, because his floor is way below the current level SGA is at.
Agreed. It would be one thing to see some random internet C's fan suggest this and then add in Smart just to get him out of town or something. But if KOC was serious about this one...Stuff like this makes you question even “respected” guys like KOC. Holy Jesus.
It's this podcast with about 37:35 left. He seems pretty serious...Agreed. It would be one thing to see some random internet C's fan suggest this and then add in Smart just to get him out of town or something. But if KOC was serious about this one...
What is the realistic shot of Cade being a top 5 player in the league?If you think Cade has a decent shot of being a top 5 player in the league, giving up 6 in a 5 player draft to toggle from SGA to Cade is a fine upside play. It also helps a ton with the tank this year. SGA isn't going to want to sit out forever & no matter how good Cade will become, he won't be as good as SGA this year.
Staying cheap for longer also allows them to take on more bad contracts & the associated positive assets that come with them.
Imo? Super low. I don't think he's athletic enough & I think his basketball IQ is overrated.What is the realistic shot of Cade being a top 5 player in the league?
Imo? Super low. I don't think he's athletic enough & I think his basketball IQ is overrated.
Thanks. Surprising to say the least.It's this podcast with about 37:35 left. He seems pretty serious...
https://www.theringer.com/2021/7/28/22599324/scenario-mock-draft-trades-ideas-and-second-round-sleepers
I actually think it’s pretty high. He is gonna be incredible and is 100% the real deal.What is the realistic shot of Cade being a top 5 player in the league?
I'm pretty high on Cade too; I don't think its out of the question for him to be a Top 5 player; he has all the skills you would want out of a top star in the modern NBA. Very good shooter, great playmaker, multiple-position defender, has an alpha mentality. I think his ceiling is something like 90% of Luka on offense with near All-NBA level defense.I actually think it’s pretty high. He is gonna be incredible and is 100% the real deal.
Also, athleticism means nothing in the NBA anymore considering two of the top 4 best players, which includes an MVP, in the league have zero athleticism combined. Give me guys with the smarts and ability to make everyone react to them over freak athleticism any day.
In the past 20 years, there have only been what, two #1 picks that were a top 5 player in the NBA for any sustained stretch? Lebron and AD. Cade is nowhere near as high of a prospect as either of those guys, so I woudl suspect his chances of becoming a top 5 player are minisculeI actually think it’s pretty high. He is gonna be incredible and is 100% the real deal.
Also, athleticism means nothing in the NBA anymore considering two of the top 4 best players, which includes an MVP, in the league have zero athleticism combined. Give me guys with the smarts and ability to make everyone react to them over freak athleticism any day.
You are just underrating Cade.I must be really overrating SGA, because I think he's just a valuable as the #1 pick all by himself. Shot 50.8% from the field and 41.8% from 3 on high volume (23.7 PPG), and he's a decent rebounder (4.7 RPG). Is already decent on D and has the length to become very good. What am I missing?
The weird thing is the last 20 years, Doncic was probably the 3rd best prospect...& went 3rd in his own draft.In the past 20 years, there have only been what, two #1 picks that were a top 5 player in the NBA for any sustained stretch? Lebron and AD. Cade is nowhere near as high of a prospect as either of those guys, so I woudl suspect his chances of becoming a top 5 player are miniscule
Brogdon is a really weird player to compare him to if he ends up just an average shooter. Though Brogdon did have that awful 19-20 season. I know you are doing overall value, just struck me as odd since Brogdon is a really good shooter. Year to year 3 point % is so volatile. SGA is a good FT shooter and he hit 3s in college as well so I think he'll be at least average if not above average. It's easy to get by on a .360-.370 3 point % with volume, especially with the rest of his game. Even as a .370 shooter, I'd argue he's closer to Kyrie.It’s worth wondering if Presti doesn’t believe in SGAs shooting. His first 2 years he shot .367 and .347 from three. Last year he jumped to .418 on a significant volume increase too. He also doubled his assist rate. I can’t think of a good reason for skepticism on the passing improvement, but if you think he’s a league average shooter instead of a .400+ shooter he’s still a good player, but he’s potentially a lot closer to Brogdon than Kyrie.
To be clear, I’m not sure what to think of SGA. I don’t have a good sense of whether his shooting changed last year or was just falling more. He’s obviously valuable either way, but he is a guy that really needs to be a high end shooter to be a max level player. It’s very possible to see SGA regressing this year and looking like a very good player who you might not be thrilled about signing to a max contract.
For clarity, the player SGA was last year is a max player. I do not mean to suggest he wasn’t, and he’s 22 so smart money is probably on continued improvement. But if you regress just shooting to his career averages, he wasn’t a max level player last year, but a tier down from there.
Since we love Celtics player comparisons, I think if he and Jaylen as having played at similar levels last year. Despite the age difference, I’d buy Jaylen’s future over his though because I see a clearer path to Jaylen being the second best player on a championship team than I do for SGA.
Beyond what others have said, he put up those numbers in less than half a season. His assists and 3 point shooting took a huge leap forward and maybe it's real, but there's a real chance his true value is somewhere between last year and the season before, when he shot <35% from 3 and averaged just over 3 assists per game.I must be really overrating SGA, because I think he's just a valuable as the #1 pick all by himself. Shot 50.8% from the field and 41.8% from 3 on high volume (23.7 PPG), and he's a decent rebounder (4.7 RPG). Is already decent on D and has the length to become very good. What am I missing?
I mean, is it surprising that his assist #s went up when he was no longer playing with Chris Paul?Beyond what others have said, he put up those numbers in less than half a season. His assists and 3 point shooting took a huge leap forward and maybe it's real, but there's a real chance his true value is somewhere between last year and the season before, when he shot <35% from 3 and averaged just over 3 assists per game.
I'd take him over the latter 2, not sure about Mitchell. Probably, because of the height advantage. He's a guy I never thought of adding to the Jays, but he really is close to a perfect fit. I'd take him over Simmons too, obv.I said before I'd take SGA over DMitch...
I've decided I would probably also take him over Beal & Jaylen...
I'm 100% on board with this. Jaylen's on a cheaper contract, is more efficient, and is under control longer. I don't see Beal as a significant upgrade. Beal's been at .350 on 3s the last three years. He has one year of efg% better than Jaylen's career average. I guess you can say he'd be more efficient on the Celtics roster, with less to do, but that's a dice roll. I'd rather keep Jaylen and I don't have any doubt on that.I wouldn’t trade Jaylen Brown for Beal straight up. Brown is as good a shooter as Beal, if not better, and is a better defender, with size to cover 1-4. He’s younger and cheaper.
That KOC proposal where the Cs give up TL, RL and two first is idiotic.
Idiotic is probably an understatement. Really makes me wonder about KOC's judgment.I wouldn’t trade Jaylen Brown for Beal straight up. Brown is as good a shooter as Beal, if not better, and is a better defender, with size to cover 1-4. He’s younger and cheaper.
That KOC proposal where the Cs give up TL, RL and two first is idiotic.
When people say they have "interest in Kyle Kuzma" they mean like in order to dump even worse contracts like Buddy Hield's?
I mean he's more athletic than Luka. He might not be Jaylen athletic, but Jaysus, how many players are? He's clearly as athletic as Tatum who's a plus defender. He isn't going to defend the 1 in the NBA, but then Luka doesn't defend PGs either. You look at the defensive plays he makes and you can see that he processes the game at a high level. You get someone like Cade and then immediately begin looking around for an Avery Bradley type to defend PGs. It's a lot easier to find an undersized SG when you have someone like Cunningham to QB the offense.What is the realistic shot of Cade being a top 5 player in the league?
So he wants spare parts and low firsts with the prayer that some picks later in the decade turn out to be OKish?Rumor has it that Morey is asking for a lot for Ben.
Ben Simmons trade rumors: 76ers seeking 'Harden-esque' return as Daryl Morey continues to shoot for the stars