The NFL rulebook is a trainshow. How does a brutal hit to the QBs head get completely offset by intentional grounding? The QB was in the process of getting illegally smashed in the skull when he made that pass attempt
National Football League of "Merica: Week 1
- Thread starter Rook05
- Start date
Same way that Offensive Holding and DPI offset. One caused the other to happen but they don't just keep the Holding.
Not player safety but the NFL offsetting rules make no sense.
Did you not hear/see that he throws an incredibly accurate dump off to a wide open back? You can't teach that.
I agree with you completely. In my opinion, the head shot should be enforced in that situation, but he actually released the ball before he got hit in the head. The ref made that clear. Had he released the ball during, or after the hit to the head, I don't believe the grounding would have been called, mostly because he would have been unconscious.
The bar is pretty low these days, wait until Prescott throws a TD, we will never hear the end of it.
Yeah it's clear no one actually cares about skull-smashing of players, outside of Congress and some organizations of moms. There's a lack of enforcement of the head-hitting rules and the concussion protocol rules. sure seems the NFL mostly cares about whether the QB can go in the next series or not. Knee injuries, bad; head injuries, meh.
If they wanted to stop head injuries they'd throw guys out who hit on the head.
The truth of the matter is that this was actually a big mistake by Newton. Like I said, he didn't get hit in the head until after he released the ball, and if you watch the replay, he clearly could have gotten the ball passed the LOS, but instead, he just threw it out sideways. It's plays like that why some people will never view him as an elite QB in this league. Had he simply fliipped the ball another 5-10 yards out of bounds, he gets the 15 yarder and the game is completely different.
Actually, no it's not. Denver would still have won, because that's what they do, but it would have changed the way it happened.
In fairness, he hasn't played much before tonight, he was playing he Panthers, and it's reasonable to expect improvement. So although he shouldn't be getting blown, I'd feel pretty good about this in Denver.
And I'd certainly take a 178-yard, 2 INT, one point win Sunday night.
And I was shocked to see Talib playing. I hadn't paid close attention, but I assumed taking a gun to a club and shooting yourself is suspension worthy, especially given his past, but apparently not
If your three interviews post game are the QB, CJ Anderson and DeMarcus Ware, I'd start with either one of the other two. He survived, and I'd feel ok as a Denver fan. But NBC went to the QB.
A half-dozen missed penalties by Denver, a 2 INT performance from the QB, a missed kick by the opposition... a Denver win! It's like Peyton never left.
Dude, like that is anywhere near as bad as maybe having some knowledge about some air being let out of a football. Come on. 2nd Amendment man.
I guess he will improve, and winning a tough game is obviously a plus no matter what, but I don't know what he has that makes us think he'll improve to anything but bad. He wasn't real good in college, doesn't have good measurables, and won a WOAT QB competition. He didn't make a total mess of himself tonight I guess, but he threw two picks and made a terrible throw on that missed TD on the goal line while executing an uber protective game plan. I'd bet Lynch ends up the guy at some point this year.
Yup. I guess that CTE settlement taught the NFL nothing. If these types of helmet to helmet hits go uncalled and players don't get ejected. The NFL won't exist in 15-20 years.
I mean really. Why can't they copy the NCAA where every targeting call is an ejection that is then reviewed (and can be over turned). That's the only way you will stop these Brutal hits.
Agree Lynch gets it at some point, and Elway is pretty astute with QB shuffling and transitions.
The head hitting is sickening. Five times isn't inadvertent. (Plus one arm to the head that while it didn't look dangerous is supposed to be a penalty now. We saw guys graze helmets get called last year.)
Then the only one called is the one where it's offset and meanwhile they make a big show about a guy getting a disqualification warning for taunting, while other guys are using their heads as missiles.
The NFL has lost its way. Just because a guy is good at running doesn't mean you can try to concuss him. That was a good game otherwise, but I am not interested in watching shit like that anymore. It's fucking repulsive.
Then the only one called is the one where it's offset and meanwhile they make a big show about a guy getting a disqualification warning for taunting, while other guys are using their heads as missiles.
The NFL has lost its way. Just because a guy is good at running doesn't mean you can try to concuss him. That was a good game otherwise, but I am not interested in watching shit like that anymore. It's fucking repulsive.
Don't you worry guys, they will likely fine the culprits and everything will be a-ok by league standards.
Did Cam's throwing motion lower his head on the H2H hit? Still a clear penalty because the result matters and not intent, but one angle I saw looked like the guy leapt to aim below the head and Cam's follow thru put him in a bad spot.
Cam is such a polarizing quarterback. Like all running QBs there is always going to be the argument about him not being a pure passer, but I think it goes beyond that. Someone compared him to Mike Vick, but not only is Newton more capable of performing the spectacular than even Vick, but he is a much more consistent thrower.
Cam's problems come down to his mentality. When I watch him play tight games I don't have the same faith in his ability to win like the way I do with Brady or Rogers or Roethlisberger or even Russell Wilson. He ran an incredibly ineffective two minute drill tonight and burning that last timeout may have doomed them. His leadership qualities are hard to comment on because I'm not on the team, but do you think any of the above mentioned names would have botched the clock that badly?
I think his biggest issue is that he hasn't fully mastered the new art of functional mobility. His ability to run should be an asset and often times is, but even at this experienced stage of his career he is still putting his head down too often and ignoring receivers down field, something I think he did a lot on that final drive leading up to the fourth and 21.
Imo, the real asset of having a mobile QB is not just to have them pick up yards with their legs but rather to extend plays and open up defenses. Wilson and Rodgers are the true masters of this and if you watch them they will roll out like Cam and swiftly avoid rushers, but their eyes are always downfield and those plays usually lead not to 10 yard scampers but 40 yard completions. At this stage in his career I don't think he is going to ever develop that skill and utilize it consistently. He is more physically gifted than Wilson or Rodgers, but I think to win like they do he needs to be playing from ahead and be well protected, which isn't always the case. He's still a really good QB, but I have trouble considering him as a truly elite player.
Cam's problems come down to his mentality. When I watch him play tight games I don't have the same faith in his ability to win like the way I do with Brady or Rogers or Roethlisberger or even Russell Wilson. He ran an incredibly ineffective two minute drill tonight and burning that last timeout may have doomed them. His leadership qualities are hard to comment on because I'm not on the team, but do you think any of the above mentioned names would have botched the clock that badly?
I think his biggest issue is that he hasn't fully mastered the new art of functional mobility. His ability to run should be an asset and often times is, but even at this experienced stage of his career he is still putting his head down too often and ignoring receivers down field, something I think he did a lot on that final drive leading up to the fourth and 21.
Imo, the real asset of having a mobile QB is not just to have them pick up yards with their legs but rather to extend plays and open up defenses. Wilson and Rodgers are the true masters of this and if you watch them they will roll out like Cam and swiftly avoid rushers, but their eyes are always downfield and those plays usually lead not to 10 yard scampers but 40 yard completions. At this stage in his career I don't think he is going to ever develop that skill and utilize it consistently. He is more physically gifted than Wilson or Rodgers, but I think to win like they do he needs to be playing from ahead and be well protected, which isn't always the case. He's still a really good QB, but I have trouble considering him as a truly elite player.
Biggest Denver takeaway for me: the rebuilt OLine played very well against a stacked Carolina front 7.
Okung dominated, Stephenson had his way with defenders and the interior of Garcia/Paradis/Schoefield looked like all three have stepped it up from last year (Schoefield, in particular looks much better at Guard than he did at Tackle last year). If they can maintain and stay healthy, this will be the big improvement on O that will push them out of last year's mess. The run game could be massive f tonight is an indicator.
Also, I enjoyed the 3 or 4 times when they talked about how much better Remmers was handling Miller than he did in the SB and nearly every play they ran had Remmers blatantly holding him. I don't think one of those has been flagged in 2 years yet they happen nearly every play.
Okung dominated, Stephenson had his way with defenders and the interior of Garcia/Paradis/Schoefield looked like all three have stepped it up from last year (Schoefield, in particular looks much better at Guard than he did at Tackle last year). If they can maintain and stay healthy, this will be the big improvement on O that will push them out of last year's mess. The run game could be massive f tonight is an indicator.
Also, I enjoyed the 3 or 4 times when they talked about how much better Remmers was handling Miller than he did in the SB and nearly every play they ran had Remmers blatantly holding him. I don't think one of those has been flagged in 2 years yet they happen nearly every play.
Yeah Denver never gets any calls, whatsup with that?
The Oline did do much better than expected, although I thought it was mainly in the running game. Semien mostly did quick drops and bootlegs which neutralized a lot of Carolinas pass rush. Kubiak's play calling was the MVP of this game as far as I'm concerned.
It certainly doesn't help that he was concussed enough to have no recollection of the game.
http://deadspin.com/cam-newton-doesnt-remember-the-end-of-the-football-game-1786418801
I've seen Cam run plenty of effective two-minute drives, this game was not at all indicative of his usual QB ability.
And he did drive them into field goal range against the best defense in the league.
The thing that stuck out to me about Siemian was how consistently he kept putting his receivers in a position to get absolutely pummeled after catching the ball. The guy will have nobody to throw to by week 6 if he keeps it up. DT already got banged up, and Sanders looked a bit shaken up at points- both were consistently put in poor positions by Siemian's fuck your buddy passes. DT even pulled up and alligator arm'd that late game slant pass because he would have gotten severely punished going full bore to make the catch. This will be interesting to watch as the season progresses.
I'm with you. Between this and the league turning into an off the field soap opera and power struggle, my interest level is at an all-time low. I'm going to a Weird Al concert Sunday night.
It will definitely pick back up to an extent when Brady comes back, but that Butler INT really sealed the hardcore emotional investment I had. I really wanted to see that one more and to have it happen when it did the way it did was, in many ways, just such a relief and pure joy. Given the state of the league now and all the long-term impact, though, I am weaning myself off.
There is a surprising amount of talk about all the headshots Cam took last night. I wonder if the worm is finally turning and the media is going to actually treat it like a major issue. (I know everyone will forget about it/stop caring probably by next Sunday at the latest.
I agree to some extent but I think it being the first game in Mile High had a big effect on Carolina's D. They allowed most of their rush yards late except for the Janovich TD which was just a good playcall.
On the game, Rivera was totally outcoached. Carolina came in with a good gameplan in the first half, then could not adjust when Denver's D adjusted at the start of the second half. Denver totally outcoached Carolina.
Carolina's D-line looked gassed by the end of the game too. Between the 80 degree temps, the altitude, and the fact that no one is in great game shape yet all contributed to this. I do think Denver's O-line was improved, but Carolina did well in the 1st half.
Kubiak seems to be pretty consistently underrated (probably because it's not a particularly flashy system) -he's always given the Pats a lot more trouble than you would think given his team's talent level. It's not like Owen Daniels is always fucking wide open in the end zone because he's a superlative talent.
So I think we can agree on 4 plays where Cam got hit in the head.
One was a defender's arm sliding across/over his helmet in a low-impact way. That could have certainly been flagged, but plays like that happen and the calls go either way often enough that I don't think it was an egregious error by the refs.
Here's a loop of the other three:
Starting with the Von Miller contact, that should have been flagged and I can only imagine that the ref just missed the facemask-to-facemask impact in the scrum. I don't think the head-to-head was intentional by Miller and the way Ware was tackling Cam drove Cam's head lower and into Von's face. Should have been a flag, but no fine/suspension.
The next hit was Brandon Marshall launching into Cam's head after he threw the ball. This should have been a flag and I am at a total loss as to why the refs blew that call. It does not get much clearer than that. I think Marshall is going to get a big fine and might get suspended. To my knowledge he doesn't have a history of head hunting, so it might just be a fine. If he is suspended, as a Bronco fan, I have zero problem with that. Dirty fucking play.
The third hit was the one that they actually threw a flag on and it was also a dirty play, but not as bad as the previous one. Stewart hits Cam in the head as Cam goes through the follow-through on his throw. Cam's head does lower as Stewart flies in there, so I think Stewart was aiming for his shoulder/chest, but he came in too high and should have either aimed lower or gone in arms outstretched to wrap Cam up. That technique is against the rules and dangerous. Stewart should be fined, but I'm not sure a suspension is in order until he does this again.
If people want to call Denver dirty for these hits, it's hard to argue otherwise (The label is definitely earned by Marshall's hit and to an extent Stewart's). Hopefully they'll adjust and dial it down a notch going forward.
One was a defender's arm sliding across/over his helmet in a low-impact way. That could have certainly been flagged, but plays like that happen and the calls go either way often enough that I don't think it was an egregious error by the refs.
Here's a loop of the other three:
Starting with the Von Miller contact, that should have been flagged and I can only imagine that the ref just missed the facemask-to-facemask impact in the scrum. I don't think the head-to-head was intentional by Miller and the way Ware was tackling Cam drove Cam's head lower and into Von's face. Should have been a flag, but no fine/suspension.
The next hit was Brandon Marshall launching into Cam's head after he threw the ball. This should have been a flag and I am at a total loss as to why the refs blew that call. It does not get much clearer than that. I think Marshall is going to get a big fine and might get suspended. To my knowledge he doesn't have a history of head hunting, so it might just be a fine. If he is suspended, as a Bronco fan, I have zero problem with that. Dirty fucking play.
The third hit was the one that they actually threw a flag on and it was also a dirty play, but not as bad as the previous one. Stewart hits Cam in the head as Cam goes through the follow-through on his throw. Cam's head does lower as Stewart flies in there, so I think Stewart was aiming for his shoulder/chest, but he came in too high and should have either aimed lower or gone in arms outstretched to wrap Cam up. That technique is against the rules and dangerous. Stewart should be fined, but I'm not sure a suspension is in order until he does this again.
If people want to call Denver dirty for these hits, it's hard to argue otherwise (The label is definitely earned by Marshall's hit and to an extent Stewart's). Hopefully they'll adjust and dial it down a notch going forward.
You know I didn't say Denver never gets any calls, right? They clearly got away with some whoppers (see my last post) but it's not untrue to point out that Von Miller got held repeatedly with no flags. I'm not comparing the two situations though or really complaining too loudly. Von got held in every game last year too so it's apparently just something that the refs are going to let happen. I'm sure it happens to plenty of edge rushers on all teams too.
Those are all terrible hits, the kind that the league should be trying to eliminate. Maybe the first one is marginal, but still helmet to helmet. The other two are egregious. And not that it should matter who is on the receiving end, but I thought even if the league didn't really give a shit about player safety, they did care about protecting star players like the reigning MVP.
GJGE NFL.
GJGE NFL.
Look at any Patriots Game Thread from the last few years and you'll see complaints about Chandler Jones getting held in every single one of them, and Chandler is obviously nowhere near as good as Miller. Edge rushers get held a lot and the refs can't call them all.