#3, Brown and next year's Lakers might get him to bite.Fair enough. So what would you flip to make it more interesting to Phil? Need to include the 2018 Brooklyn pick?
#3, Brown and next year's Lakers might get him to bite.Fair enough. So what would you flip to make it more interesting to Phil? Need to include the 2018 Brooklyn pick?
Having already made my case that Booker is overrated in terms of W/Ls, he's still an extremely marketable 20 year old who's going to score boatloads in the league, going into year 3 on his rookie contract. He's worth far, far more than Bradley, Smart or Crowder to a rebuilding team.# 4 and Booker is the equivalent of what? Jaylen and LAL 2018 pick? # 3 and Bradley?
You may be right in that today may be a dud for Celtics trades, but the first sentence of your post makes absolutely zero sense.Danny isn't going to trade his assets no matter how good a fit Porzingis or anyone else is. Today is going to be a dud.
Tell us more about your conversation with Danny.Danny isn't going to trade his assets no matter how good a fit Porzingis or anyone else is. Today is going to be a dud.
Exactly. We're a 1 seed that's picking third overall. We're going to be adding a very good young player that's cost controlled for a long time. Danny has already won.Plus today isn't a dud if they make their pick and whoever they draft turns out to be a very good player
I think that's borderline to get Porzingis alone, no way that gets the #8 too.My suggestion:
#3, Bradley, Crowder, and one of the unlikely-to-be future lottery picks for Porzingis and #8.
Take BPA at 8.
Then sign Hayward.
IT4
Hayward
Horford
Zinger
with a competition for the second guard spot. Could be Smart, could be #8, could be Jaylen.
And what if one of your picks is not a star like Curry, Thompson, or Green? Today will be like any other day - Danny will make a move if it makes sense or he will otherwise just take Tatum/Jackson/Isaac on a rookie deal and keep waiting.Exactly. We're a 1 seed that's picking third overall. We're going to be adding a very good young player that's cost controlled for a long time. Danny has already won.
The Warriors developed their core from the draft, I don't see why we can't do the same while adding complementary pieces like Horford as they become available. Adding one player, unless that player is LeBron, isn't going to push us over the top. Adding 4-5 stars to throw at the GSW machine will do that.
If Phil has a deal on the table we would have to beat it.....not offering a LESSER player than Booker in return for the right to see Porzingis 5-6x per year. It would take the #3 and Jaylen to even get into that conversation.If Phil would take #4 and Booker, and 3>4, then we need to add something slightly LESS than Booker's value to meet Phils desired value.
So what is slightly less than Booker? Bradley or Crowder plus a late first? It's not the BKN 18 - that has to be worth more than Booker. I think the LAL/SAC is also worth more, but maybe others disagree. But that's the ballpark we should be playing in here.
Phil doesn't have that deal on the table. The Suns said no, supposedly.If Phil has a deal on the table we would have to beat it.....not offering a LESSER player than Booker in return for the right to see Porzingis 5-6x per year. It would take the #3 and Jaylen to even get into that conversation.
True, although everything is a gamble to some extent. If you cash in everything (or a lot) for a guy like KP or AD and they develop foot problems in six months, then you're kinda fucked too. I think high quality quantity gives us better odds, but I can see the value with proven talent.And what if one of your picks is not a star like Curry, Thompson, or Green? Today will be like any other day - Danny will make a move if it makes sense or he will otherwise just take Tatum/Jackson/Isaac on a rookie deal and keep waiting.
Agreed.That is an insane load for a non-superduperstar! I don't even feel Porzingis' value exceeds the Brooklyn '18 pick on its own the the transcendent talent at the top of next summers draft. The talk of including the Nets pick AND other assets is crazy talk imo.
Clocktower Doc Brown because the Future just got better or Clocktower Charles Whitman because not?If DA trades #3, a top 5 pick next year plus Jaylen Brown for KP, I will be up in a clock tower by midnight.
He's absolutely worth that. He'd be #1 overall without hesitation.David Aldridge said a few minutes ago that the Knicks are asking for a big package for KP because they feel KP would be worth the #1 pick this year. Not sure how logical that take is, but it's out there.
This makes sense, I'd rather include Bradley though (if the signing is Hayward). Clears more salary, and Crowder is more versatile. Of course, the Knicks might prefer Crowder for the same reasons.I think Phil is probably right that KP is worth the #1 pick this year, and if the Celtics still had it I'd trade it for him. But they don't, so I tend to think its "equivalent"--what Danny just traded it for--should be very close to getting it done on a fair world. So that's #3 and the rights to LL/SAC's pick, plus someone like Crowder to sweeten the deal.
Apologies if this was already pointed out upthread, but an "overpay" that includes someone like Crowder actually helps the Celts out anyway. With the lower salary cap, they'd need to dump a Crowder-esque salary regardless to clear enough space for an FA like Hayward, so you might as well use him as a sweetener to help get KP. When thinking through Porzingis trades, there's a case to be made that you actively WANT to include Crowder (or whomever).
This assumes that Ainge made a good deal. Or at least that Aigne made a deal that Jackson thinks is good.I think Phil is probably right that KP is worth the #1 pick this year, and if the Cektucs still had it I'd trade it for him. But they don't, so I tend to think it's "equivalent"--what Danny just traded it for--should be very close to getting it done on a fair world. So that's #3 and the rights to LL/SAC's pick, plus someone like Crowder to sweeten the deal.
Maybe it's a misdirection play, but Phil seemed to be genuinely butthurt by Kristaps skipping the exit interview. I don't think it strains the imagination to see Phil making a dumb move based on the combination of a bruised ego, a hopeless situation even with Porzingis and the need to make some sort of statement/splash.To me, the only way making this trade makes sense from Phil's perspective, is if it gets him out of the Carmelo contract (and experience). I can't see why he would trade a 21-year old stud on an awesome contract, without forcing that team to take his albatross.
Isn't the bigger obstacle for this Carmelo himself, not finding a team willing to take him?To me, the only way making this trade makes sense from Phil's perspective, is if it gets him out of the Carmelo contract (and experience). I can't see why he would trade a 21-year old stud on an awesome contract, without forcing that team to take his albatross.
Carmelo hasn't agreed to waive his NTC so not much Phil can do about that if he wants to trade KP before the draft.To me, the only way making this trade makes sense from Phil's perspective, is if it gets him out of the Carmelo contract (and experience). I can't see why he would trade a 21-year old stud on an awesome contract, without forcing that team to take his albatross.
Everybody's talking about Phil's ego. What about Dolan's desire to sell tickets? He views the Knicks as a way to fill up the Garden and little else. He's going to trade the most popular Knicks player in forever and put that at risk?Maybe it's a misdirection play, but Phil seemed to be genuinely butthurt by Kristaps skipping the exit interview. I don't think it strains the imagination to see Phil making a dumb move based on the combination of a bruised ego, a hopeless situation even with Porzingis and the need to make some sort of statement/splash.
Good point. Does that make LA a better potential fit? Not sure if they'd take Melo but I would guess he'd agree to go there.Isn't the bigger obstacle for this Carmelo himself, not finding a team willing to take him?
People are f'ing crazy. That is an overpay of epic proportions.J. Sherrod Blakely, on the Sports hub this morning, was suggesting that to get porzingis, he would trade the following:
1. This year's Philly pick (#3)
2. The 2018 Brooklyn pick (confidently 1, 2, 3 or 4)
3. Jaylen Brown (last year's #3)
4. Crowder.
Rich and Wallach agreed they would do that deal, understanding it was an overpay. So effectively, that's three top 5 draft picks and Jae Crowder for Porzingis. I almost drove off the road and thanked my lucky stars that these guys have nothing to do with Celtics management.
Good God...As I mentioned earlier in this thread, any trade that includes both #3 & Brown is ludicrous. Any deal for KP would start with one of those assets as its foundation, with filler to follow.J. Sherrod Blakely, on the Sports hub this morning, was suggesting that to get porzingis, he would trade the following:
1. This year's Philly pick (#3)
2. The 2018 Brooklyn pick (confidently 1, 2, 3 or 4)
3. Jaylen Brown (last year's #3)
4. Crowder.
Rich and Wallach agreed they would do that deal, understanding it was an overpay. So effectively, that's three top 5 draft picks and Jae Crowder for Porzingis. I almost drove off the road and thanked my lucky stars that these guys have nothing to do with Celtics management.
Worth pointing out that GS took Harrison Barnes 28 slots ahead of Draymond and Festus Ezeli 5 spots ahead of Draymond.And what if one of your picks is not a star like Curry, Thompson, or Green? Today will be like any other day - Danny will make a move if it makes sense or he will otherwise just take Tatum/Jackson/Isaac on a rookie deal and keep waiting.
I would do #3 and Brown in a heartbeat. I'd throw in the LAL/SAC/PHI pick and one of the guards (Smart/Bradley/Rozier).Good God...As I mentioned earlier in this thread, any trade that includes both #3 & Brown is ludicrous. Any deal for KP would start with one of those assets as its foundation, with filler to follow.
TBH, I'm not even sure DA would include Brown in any deal for Porzingis. Seems like Stevens and the front office really like him.
Understandably so, dude has said all the right things re: defense and things to improve on. He sounds like a ten year vet instead of a 20 year old kid. Plus those videos he's been dropping show that he has a crazy work ethic. I think I've read here that year one -> year two growth is usually one of the biggest leaps, so I'm pretty excited to see how he looks next year.Good God...As I mentioned earlier in this thread, any trade that includes both #3 & Brown is ludicrous. Any deal for KP would start with one of those assets as its foundation, with filler to follow.
TBH, I'm not even sure DA would include Brown in any deal for Porzingis. Seems like Stevens and the front office really like him.
I take everything reported this week with a huge grain of salt. Teams leak misinformation and details get skewed. I don't know if the conversation took place or not, but I do know that that particular rumor didn't come from any of the few very reliable sources. I'm not even sure where that one came from, truthfully. Anybody know the original source? Or was it ever backed up by a Lowe or Woj type?For people saying this is all a mirage, are you assuming the rumored deal offered by Phil to PHX of KP for the #4 and Booker didn't really happen? Because if Jackson actually made that offer, then he in fact had every intention of dealing KP, at least for that price.
If that report is not accurate, then it undercuts much of the trade speculation going on. But if it is accurate, then a trade IS possible, and for a price far less than #3/Brkn 18/Brown/Crowder.
Has that Phoenix report been corroborated by any of the major media guys? Best I can tell is that it came from a local sports radio guy from Phoenix.For people saying this is all a mirage, are you assuming the rumored deal offered by Phil to PHX of KP for the #4 and Booker didn't really happen? Because if Jackson actually made that offer, then he in fact had every intention of dealing KP, at least for that price.
If that report is not accurate, then it undercuts much of the trade speculation going on. But if it is accurate, then a trade IS possible, and for a price far less than #3/Brkn 18/Brown/Crowder.
This is nuts. Maybe if we are pretending he's in a time machine and we've never seen him play in the NBA. He is absolutely the first pick this year. And the second pick. And the third pick.I have heard two basketball podcast folks say that Porzingis would be # 2 pick in this years draft, so saying he is worth the # 1 is certainly not an absolute.
What podcast? I've heard Chad Ford and others say he's on a completely different tier than anyone in this year's draft.I have heard two basketball podcast folks say that Porzingis would be # 2 pick in this years draft, so saying he is worth the # 1 is certainly not an absolute. He is also only two years away from being a max player. And also is not the best fit next to Horford.
I am not sure I would do Jaylen and # 3, but would most likely relent.