We have been adament that all vaxx discussion take place in V&N. Please take it there.The vaccination shortfall is part of the decline. The team needs a vaccination mandate - of course it's too late for this season.
We have been adament that all vaxx discussion take place in V&N. Please take it there.The vaccination shortfall is part of the decline. The team needs a vaccination mandate - of course it's too late for this season.
For the record, this is exactly how I feel.Disappointing yes. But not at "disaster". Not if you're coming off two straight years where you're bad and completely out of it right from the start, and you've:
- Won 90 games (which is our hypothetical here)
- Had to deal with a massive Covid outbreak
- Added a ton of young talent via the draft and trades
- And been in the playoff mix right to the end of the season, thus you've played meaningful games all year long
That's not a disaster. It's disappointing but not a disaster. A disaster is winning 69 games and having no future.
No, because the second half isn't over yet. It's actually kind of the point, SJH. So let's define what we mean here.That's pretty much the definition of playing semantics, Jones lol. Come on now.
Heh. It took me like ten minutes to run the numbers. Not my strong suit.I was told there would be no math.
Do they get any credit for winning any "losable" games?So many winnable games makes it worse.
Exactly. There were a lot of come from behind, "never say die" type wins in the first half of the season. Those type wins aren't happening as often any more, though they're still showing some of that same pluck. It's just coming up short (see the last two games as examples).Do they get any credit for winning any "losable" games?
Sorry.We have been adament that all vaxx discussion take place in V&N. Please take it there.
Yah... I mean the entire AL east save for Baltimore is 16 or more games above .500This team finishes in 4th place ONLY because they're in the AL East. In any other division, on pace for 88-90 wins, they're battling for first or second right now (or third in the NL West).
They are a very flawed team. That they were in first place as late into the season as they were was a miracle and the regression is unsurprising. Doesn't mean it's fun to watch, but at no point in this season did I think this was a team that could hold off any combination of the Rays, Jays, or Yankees if those teams got their shit together. So I can't get all that upset about something that was entirely expected.
I think at the end of the season, we're going to find that to win the division, the Sox were going to need 98-100 wins. That was never going to happen.
Why likely for the next several seasons?90 wins is nice, if they get there, but remember there is a team in the division on pace for 110 losses.
It’s true that the Sox are likely a middle of the pack team, more similar to the A’s than the Astros and Rays. This is likely to remain true for the next several seasons, at least.
One can be concerned about the future, happy with the past, and disappointed about the current (even if it maybe is better than some vague predictions 8 months ago) and still be an ok fan.
2021 40 Man CB Tax PayrollBut if they do, it's also understandable. They have a $203 million payroll (compared to Boston's $182 million), so that extra $21 million ought to buy them a couple more wins, right SJH?
You don't know a disaster season. The mid 1960's Red Sox who routinely finished in last place with a pre determined number of African Americans on the roster and a racist owner, now those were the true disaster seasons. This season does not compare in any way to those teams.They're in 4th place as of this morning. After leading the division in July. That is a disaster by any definition.
They had 15 games left and need to win 9 of them to get to 90 wins. They have been a below .500 team for 3 months and half the team is on the COVID list and the other half has hands like feet. They're not reaching 90 wins because they are unable to fix any of their glaring deficiencies.
Source?2021 40 Man CB Tax Payroll
Boston: $205.4 million
Yankees: $207.6 million
I am older than you think. There are disasters and there are disasters. The teams of the early 60s were of course horrible in their own ways, but that's also 60 years ago and not germane to the discussion today.You don't know a disaster season. The mid 1960's Red Sox who routinely finished in last place with a pre determined number of African Americans on the roster and a racist owner, now those were the true disaster seasons. This season does not compare in any way to those teams.
How short a memory you must have. 2020 was a disaster. What do you consider 2012? A fantastic success? It's amazing and sad how hyperbolic some people are.
Those are as of 4/1. A bit out of date.
I was looking at Spotrac's page for MLB payroll. So I don't know what these numbers are or where you got them from.2021 40 Man CB Tax Payroll
Boston: $205.4 million
Yankees: $207.6 million
Click on the "2021-25 payroll and tax tracker" link for each team and you'll see it is updated. Schwarber is on there for the Red Sox.Those are as of 4/1. A bit out of date.
SJH, I normally like reading your arguments even when I disagree with them and you always have interesting takes, but I just don’t understand how anyone could compare this season to 2012 or 2020 and call them similarly disastrous.2020 was a disaster. 2012 was a disaster.
2021 is shaping up to be another disaster
I mean, at that level every season has joyful games. Even 2012. I attended a game in 2012 where Saltalamacchia hit a walkoff 2 run HR off Rodney to win a game against Tampa Bay. That was pretty cool. Saw a few other wins in person that year as well. At a granular level, sure there's some joy every year.SJH, I normally like reading your arguments even when I disagree with them and you always have interesting takes, but I just don’t understand how anyone could compare this season to 2012 or 2020 and call them similarly disastrous.
The April/May/June part of this season was filled with joyful games — the 9 game win streak in April, the late May JD comeback HR in the 9th against the Jays in Florida, sweeping the Yankees twice in June, and now it’s September 14 and we are still tied for one of the two Wild Cards and playing important games.
Compare to the fully unlikeable team in 2012 with a clown for a manager holding a fire sale in August? Or last year’s short season squad that was hopeless from Game 2 on and featured perhaps the worst pitching in the history of the ball club? Those teams committed the greatest sin of all to me: they ended the baseball season early.
His posts remind me of Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares. Gordon has exactly three ratings for food: delicious, dreadful, and ghastly. SJH has three ratings for baseball seasons: great, disappointing, and disaster. Great is winning the World Series, disappointing is making the playoffs and getting eliminated, and disaster is everything else.Compare to the fully unlikeable team in 2012 with a clown for a manager holding a fire sale in August? Or last year’s short season squad that was hopeless from Game 2 on and featured perhaps the worst pitching in the history of the ball club?
You do not know the first note of the music that moves me. (A shiny nickel to anyone who gets this reference).His posts remind me of Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares. Gordon has exactly three ratings for food: delicious, dreadful, and ghastly. SJH has three ratings for baseball seasons: great, disappointing, and disaster. Great is winning the World Series, disappointing is making the playoffs and getting eliminated, and disaster is everything else.
Yes, the second half of the season has been a disappointment. And if they don't make the playoffs at all, it will be a disappointment overall. But I think there's a lot of distance between that and a disaster. Your semantics may vary.I'm generally on the SJH train.
There's a kind of primacy problem here: people look at the team through their April expectations. And yes, that team had a ton of question marks as to many of the key components.
Yet by July those questions were answered, and so any reasonable observer would have different expectations for the second half of the season. The Sox had an excellent chance to claim the division title, and a WC berth seemed to be the floor (should a division rival get insanely hot.)
From either perspective their August play was disappointing.
It was wildly inconsistent both in fundamental approach (sloppiness) and the outcomes that resulted.
So yes, the team is a disappointment. To argue the team was "playing above their heads" or the like is an exercise in pre-season confirmation bias. Sure, they enjoyed a certain amount of luck. But what's going on now isn't a flat bit because an opposing team got lucky on a fat pitch or two, or the Sox hit more than an average number of screaming line drives right at fielders.
If they make the WC it will basically mitigate the disappointing play thusfar, and a strong post-season will go a long way toward sending their recent slump into bygone memory. But I think the fundamental problems will remain with the team into 2022 unless addressed:
1) team motivation/cohesion,2) preparation (not being smothered by second-tier pitching),3) defense.
I think the buck stops with Cora/Bloom, but Vazquez and/or the pitching coaches have seemed to run aground at times.
Haha. You're just throwing that last line out there, right? No way Mayer starts 2023 as the Red Sox starting SS. Maybe (maybe) 2nd half call up. But I do look forward to a Meyer - Yorke middle IF, probably 2024 or later.If he opts out I assume they'll keep Raffy, fast track Meyers to the majors, and pray real hard it works out.
What DHs has Bloom acquired besides Schwarber? He traded for a solid defender in left, signed one of the very best center fielders in MLB for 2/$16, rescued an above average right fielder from the scrap heap and grabbed a plus defensive second baseman (Arroyo) from waivers. He also signed Marwin, who for all his uselessness at the plate was a pretty good and versatile infielder. The problem has been Bogaerts, Devers and Dalbec, who makes Bogaerts and Devers worse. It’s not a Bloom problem.This is rapidly turning into a 3rd straight disastrous season. A 65 game stretch of below .500 baseball and a total free fall in the AL standings. Absolutely terrible.
If Bloom doesn't address the defense next year he's completely over his head as GM. This cannot stand. He's put together a team full of DHs. X has to be moved off short soon as well. It's going to be a very difficult offseason for Bloom, because he has a bunch of square pegs and round holes.
I have the opposite feeling.But no matter what... this team has been absolutely brutal to watch like no other team in my memory... okay... the collapse of the Beer and Chicken team was horrifyingly worse than this because of the talent on that team.
What are the possible options?That the Sox two best players cannot field their positions anymore is a huge problem that is just casually being dismissed, and isn’t going to resolve itself in the next few weeks or off-season. So what do we do about it?
Just a brief answer to this, I don't think it's really true, especially for NY. NY has traded I think 19 prospects in 2021, but not their very top ones, and they have also had a lot of guys blossom, so Fangraphs still has them ahead of BOS in overall farm system ranking.The Jays and Yankees pushed all their chips in this year
With you on Semien. I think Bryant will get big $ and be a bust. He's been trending downward for a while with a slight bump in the 1st half of this year.I think Bryant and Semien are the guys to go after. They could both ultimately replace Devers and Bogaerts, but because of their flexibility, cover 2b and 1b (or LF) in the interim. I would look to move on from JD and Schwarber and go after these two in a bid to get more athletic and dynamic. It also allows the opportunity to potentially shop Devers if his defense doesn’t improve and the team doesn’t want to give him 10+ years at $25M or more per. Granted both these guys will be pricey and in demand and not sure what the payroll limitations will be.
I don’t think we are going to do much but moan a requiem of gripes, but I suspect the front office will address it this offseason. Just like the Yankees will address the shortstop position they booted a guy off this week.That the Sox two best players cannot field their positions anymore is a huge problem that is just casually being dismissed, and isn’t going to resolve itself in the next few weeks or off-season. So what do we do about it?
Sure, that makes sense. What I mean is that 2021 seems squarely in the contention window for this cycle of Yankees, with Judge, Sanchez, Green and Chapman nearing free agency and Stanton becoming more of a liability. I read Bloom’s preseason comments about the next great Sox team to blossom after all those guys hit FA for you and before the next wave of prospects have settled in.Just a brief answer to this, I don't think it's really true, especially for NY. NY has traded I think 19 prospects in 2021, but not their very top ones, and they have also had a lot of guys blossom, so Fangraphs still has them ahead of BOS in overall farm system ranking.
It is an absolutely loaded division from top to bottom, both with young talent already up (this is why TOR is lowest below) and guys still in the minors. Current farm rankings from Fangraphs (this updates as guys graduate or their rankings are changed, so it is basically current):
BAL: 1
TB: 2
NYY: 10
BOS: 12
TOR: 21
https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2021-in-season-prospect-list/farm-ranking?sort=-1,1&type=100&filter=&pos=&team=
I like him fine, but his post-deadline comments make me think he’s very likely to stay in San Francisco. Plus he may not be an improvement over Devers. Bryant is -3 defensive runs saved in 361 innings at 3B this year; Devers is -8 in 1158 innings. Doesn’t make sense to me to pay him a premium to play left.Why don’t people like Bryant? He’s a much better player than Schwarber. Hell, he may be better than Bogaerts. He had one bad year but has otherwise been a monster and can play multiple positions (albeit, he’s not great defensively but he’s better than Devers).
How does the team go hard after Story or Correa? Would the plan be to move Bogaerts to another position (which he surely isn’t going to want to do next year) or to get him to waive his no trade?
If Bloom has had the authority to make trades for two years now, then yes, this is his team.What DHs has Bloom acquired besides Schwarber? He traded for a solid defender in left, signed one of the very best center fielders in the MLB for 2/$16, rescued an above average right fielder from the scrap heap and grabbed a plus defensive second baseman (Arroyo) from waivers. He also signed Marwin, who for all his uselessness at the plate was a pretty good and versatile infielder. The problem has been Bogaerts, Devers and Dalbec, who makes Bogaerts and Devers worse. It’s not a Bloom problem.
Probably the guy with a DRS of 11 in center field in only 600 innings while also having a solid offensive season, just a guess though, maybe he signed another guy that's been a top 5 center fielder this year despite missing time twiceIf Bloom has had the authority to make trades for two years now, then yes, this is his team.
Also who is this "very best center fielders" you speak of?
Ah yes, better than Mookie Betts, better than JBJ. Sure. With his .974 fielding percentage. Seems legit.Probably the guy with a DRS of 11 in center field in only 600 innings while also having a solid offensive season, just a guess though, maybe he signed another guy that's been a top 5 center fielder this year despite missing time twice
Who said he was better than JBJ defensively? Overall they aren't even in the same stratosphere though. And Mookie has hardly played CF this year, so yes Kike has been a better CF than him this year.Ah yes, better than Mookie Betts, better than JBJ. Sure. With his .974 fielding percentage. Seems legit.