Week 12

Sandwich Pick

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The Chargers are like that. The Giants are not a tortured fanbase. 4 SBs in my lifetime and a Super Bowl loss. Seems pretty good.
Bad phrasing on my part. They're definitely not tortured. It was more along the lines of they just didn't have a clue as to the shit that Chargers fans have had to deal with over the past 20+ years.

Even this season, Keenan Allen and Justin Herbert have put up several monster games. Khalil Mack had 6 sacks in a game. And they still have as many wins as the Jets.

They're great to cheer for in fantasy sports and agonizing in real life. Pretty much the opposite of the Chiefs.
 

wilked

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This is the furthest I have ever made it in Survivor. I have the Vikes tonight. I somehow remember them being a 6 point fav or so when I picked them - I see they are a 3 point fav at the moment. How nervous should I be here?
 

cshea

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Staley is an idiot. That team should be no worse than 7-4.

Edit: Whoever ends up coaching the Chargers next season will have an easy path to CoTY.
 

luckiestman

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The Drive and The Fumble should move Cleveland near the top of the list
The Cleveland Browns might be the worst

The real Browns went to Baltimore and won 2 Super Bowls

The coach of the last real Browns team, Belichick, went on to win 6 Super Bowls.

The expansion team Browns have flat out sucked and are one of 5 teams since ‘44 to have a winless season.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is Herbert regressing, is it the injuries, or is Staley an idiot? The Chargers should be better than this.
Herbert has generally been very good this year... their line isn't very good, their passcatchers are either washed or bad, and their defense is a trash fire (also special teams).
 

TFisNEXT

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Is Herbert regressing, is it the injuries, or is Staley an idiot? The Chargers should be better than this.
Herbert is actually having a very good season. He's in the top 5-8 in most metrics (8th in EPA/play, 7th in PFF grade, 5th in total QBR) after a disappointing 2022 season. His 2021 was crazy good, and he hasn't matched that again yet, but obviously he has many years ahead of him. He's not the reason they are sucking this year.
 

johnmd20

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The Cleveland Browns might be the worst

The real Browns went to Baltimore and won 2 Super Bowls

The coach of the last real Browns team, Belichick, went on to win 6 Super Bowls.

The expansion team Browns have flat out sucked and are one of 5 teams since ‘44 to have a winless season.
And since going back to Cleveland, the team has had 3 playoff games in 23 years, winning one of them.

Brock Purdy has played 3 playoff games in his career, winning two of them.

edit - and one of those playoff games, the Browns were up 33-21 late in the 4th quarter and lost to Pitt.(2002)
 

Rudy's Curve

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And since going back to Cleveland, the team has had 3 playoff games in 23 years, winning one of them.

Brock Purdy has played 3 playoff games in his career, winning two of them.
They also haven't won a division title since the same calendar year Ronald Reagan was still in the White House. Both versions of the Oilers/Titans and the Jaguars have won the AFC Central/North more recently and they haven't been in it since 2001. They haven't even finished in the top half of the division since 2007!
 

johnmd20

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They also haven't won a division title since the same calendar year Ronald Reagan was still in the White House. Both versions of the Oilers/Titans and the Jaguars have won the AFC Central/North more recently and they haven't been in it since 2001. They haven't even finished in the top half of the division since 2007!
And this year when they have what is certainly their best, most complete team in 23 years, they lost the QB1, (three weeks ago) RB1,(week 2) WR1,(this week) DL1,(this week) OL1,(week 3) and CB1,(last week) among a lot of other injuries.
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
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I only caught the very end of the Bills-Eagles. Was the officiating that bad (ie, more terrible than usual)? The Athletic has the whiniest article I think I’ve ever read.

The one video example of Josh Allen’s “horse-collar” is pretty clearly not a horse-collar. And the non-fumble in OT seemed pretty obviously not a catch. The Athletic writer sounds like a message board poster:

You’re totally right about the article, but you should check out the horse collar rule. The hit on Allen definitely qualified.


https://x.com/SeifertESPN/status/1728913675657130491?s=20

That said, I think people generally get too upset about missed calls. Perfection isn’t the standard, and we generally want officials to resolve doubt in favor of keeping the flag in their pocket. I get much more upset about phantom calls, or where a marginal infraction that is let go a dozen times during a game is suddenly called in a critical spot. I don’t recall anything like that in yesterday’s Bills-Eagles game — a couple flags that should’ve been thrown against the Eagles weren’t, but I didn’t think the officiating was particularly bad overall.
 

luckiestman

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That horse collar might meet the wording of the rule but not the spirit. I remember Roy Williams used to do this shit all the time and it wasn’t what happened yesterday. That dude was inside the front of the jersey and not in a way that would do the same type of injury Williams used to cause. The Jets benefitted from a similar tackle on Breece Hall being called a horse collar against the Broncos (so there is a lack of consistency) but I thought we caught a break on that.
 

Cellar-Door

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You’re totally right about the article, but you should check out the horse collar rule. The hit on Allen definitely qualified.


https://x.com/SeifertESPN/status/1728913675657130491?s=20

That said, I think people generally get too upset about missed calls. Perfection isn’t the standard, and we generally want officials to resolve doubt in favor of keeping the flag in their pocket. I get much more upset about phantom calls, or where a marginal infraction that is let go a dozen times during a game is suddenly called in a critical spot. I don’t recall anything like that in yesterday’s Bills-Eagles game — a couple flags that should’ve been thrown against the Eagles weren’t, but I didn’t think the officiating was particularly bad overall.
I don't think the NFL has ever interpreted that to mean the front of the jersey. At the nameplate or above still implies the back/side as that is where the nameplate is located and the area noted in the first part of the rule.

The officiating was not that bad, the Bills are just whiners.
 

Zedia

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You’re totally right about the article, but you should check out the horse collar rule. The hit on Allen definitely qualified.


https://x.com/SeifertESPN/status/1728913675657130491?s=20

That said, I think people generally get too upset about missed calls. Perfection isn’t the standard, and we generally want officials to resolve doubt in favor of keeping the flag in their pocket. I get much more upset about phantom calls, or where a marginal infraction that is let go a dozen times during a game is suddenly called in a critical spot. I don’t recall anything like that in yesterday’s Bills-Eagles game — a couple flags that should’ve been thrown against the Eagles weren’t, but I didn’t think the officiating was particularly bad overall.
I don’t know, he pulled the front collar, not the side or the back. That was Hochuli’s reasoning anyway. I assume he knows the rule but maybe that’s giving him too much credit.

BTW, I should mention the reason this article jumped out at me is because it’s on the front page of The NY Times. I guess I could understand it on the Buffalo hub of the Athletic website. But the NYT?
 

BigJimEd

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The front of the jersey is fine. Reddick did grab the back but the question is if he pulled him toward the ground from there. I think it is questionable. The grounding was obvious though. No idea what the whining over that is. Ball landed about 6 inches away from Allen.
 

cshea

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Reddick definitely grabbed the back but given Allen's jersey was ripped in the front it seems like the majority of the grab-and-pull was from the front.

As for the intentional grounding...I mean it is obvious Allen's intent was to avoid a sack which is the purpose of the rule but Davis wasn't that far away. I've seen receivers further away be considered in the area. If it wasn't for Allen being flung to the ground it's not much different than when a QB turfs the ball on a blown up screen.

View: https://youtu.be/2xMZZjfb-0k?si=y9WkVS3BNHR6WOoK
 

BigJimEd

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If it wasn't for Allen being flung to the ground it's not much different than when a QB turfs the ball on a blown up screen.
Screens are a little different and there was a rule clarification that allowed that. Also if Allen had begun his throwing motion before contact then that is different as well. But he was already being thrown down and that pass had no chance whatsoever of being completed. Ref knew it, Allen knew it, everyone watching knew it.
 

mauf

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I don’t know, he pulled the front collar, not the side or the back. That was Hochuli’s reasoning anyway. I assume he knows the rule but maybe that’s giving him too much credit.

BTW, I should mention the reason this article jumped out at me is because it’s on the front page of The NY Times. I guess I could understand it on the Buffalo hub of the Athletic website. But the NYT?
Steratore flatly said it was a missed call. He doesn’t usually do that, so I assume he was right. But as I said, I’m sympathetic to officials trying to make these calls at full speed — they’re never going to be perfect, and a missed call is vastly preferable to a phantom call.
 

Zedia

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Steratore flatly said it was a missed call. He doesn’t usually do that, so I assume he was right. But as I said, I’m sympathetic to officials trying to make these calls at full speed — they’re never going to be perfect, and a missed call is vastly preferable to a phantom call.
It's funny, I initially watched that clip without audio and was like "eh, not a horse collar.". I didn't even see the last little moment where Reddick grabbed the back. Because 95% of the force was from the front grab. Then you watch with audio and Nantz and Romo are like "it's obvious!". Maybe Gene was swayed by them. Also I never agree with those guys anyway. Maybe @CFB_Rules could weigh in.

Anyway, regardless of that particular call (or any other calls), that article is embarrassing.
 

Oil Can Dan

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It's only a horsecollar tackle if the Reddick pulls Allen down by the nameplate. The nameplate is facing the sky, so how on Earth could he be pullling him down by that?

Romo and Nantz need to do better than that.
 

CFB_Rules

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It's funny, I initially watched that clip without audio and was like "eh, not a horse collar.". I didn't even see the last little moment where Reddick grabbed the back. Because 95% of the force was from the front grab. Then you watch with audio and Nantz and Romo are like "it's obvious!". Maybe Gene was swayed by them. Also I never agree with those guys anyway. Maybe @CFB_Rules could weigh in.

Anyway, regardless of that particular call (or any other calls), that article is embarrassing.
I hate hate hate this foul. The rule says you cannot grab the name plate, back or side collar of the jersey and pull the runner toward the ground. Looking at this clip, he grabs the back collar and obviously he also tackles the runner (pulls the runner down). But that's not what the rule is really meant to prevent. The rule is meant to prevent the pull-back where the knees buckle because it's an injury risk. There's no injury risk on the Allen tackle, but because we're not very good at writing rules this became a foul on a routine tackle for no real reason.

This is a horsecollar:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxDGSbmZOJE
 

54thMA

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The Cleveland Browns might be the worst

The real Browns went to Baltimore and won 2 Super Bowls

The coach of the last real Browns team, Belichick, went on to win 6 Super Bowls.

The expansion team Browns have flat out sucked and are one of 5 teams since ‘44 to have a winless season.
This.

Bad enough they have the drive and the fumble in their history (not sure which one was worse), they also have a Brian Sipe INT in the end zone in the playoffs in 1980 vs the Raiders when all they needed was a FG to win the game.

Then they moved to Baltimore and won two Super Bowls.

That fan base is the worst as far as being tortured.
 

JCizzle

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So the officials possibly just called a penalty blind if his helmet was, in fact, ripped off?
 

Cellar-Door

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The Josh Dobbs story was fun for a week.
Part of what makes him fun is the rollercoaster ride. He'll throw a pick and fumble twice, but also run for a TD and keep it interesting. Safe, solid QB play is not what you're getting with Dobbs, it's just Yolo Jameis with more running
 

E5 Yaz

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... they also have a Brian Sipe INT in the end zone in the playoffs in 1980 vs the Raiders when all they needed was a FG to win the game.
I remember that play like it happened yesterday. That was horrid to watch
 

Jed Zeppelin

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So the officials possibly just called a penalty blind if his helmet was, in fact, ripped off?
The refs regularly receive calls from up above based on quick replay reviews all the time, and yet this kind of thing gets messed up constantly.
 

mauf

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So the officials possibly just called a penalty blind if his helmet was, in fact, ripped off?
Maybe more of an explanation by the refs than none at all would’ve been good there
Certainly seems like a flag that should’ve stayed in the official’s pocket. Offering a totally different explanation for the call after the first one was shown to be bullshit doesn’t inspire confidence.
 

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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Certainly seems like a flag that should’ve stayed in the official’s pocket. Offering a totally different explanation for the call after the first one was shown to be bullshit doesn’t inspire confidence.
Refs show no judgment when officiating. They just aggressively apply the rulebook. I guess that's how they're taught and graded but it really lessens the product.